Satan

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi…….It's a waste of time nothing gets through the Carnal mind can not savor the deep spiritual things of God it not there fault it just is not there, And that's all you will get is frustrated, I have quoted at times 10 or 12 solid scripture and it just hits a blank in their minds. They only know how to read something , but can only understand it from a Physical and carnal stand point, can you imagine what Jesus Had to go through. Jesus wouldn't even waste his time with this.

Jodi don't let it get to you………..love to you and yours……gene

[Not3in1]

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,14:44)

I think I'll go jog a peaceful couple of miles,

OH WAIT!!! I want to go too! Oh, to jog….my knee has been killing me and I haven't had a good run for nearly a month now. I just stare at my running shoes and curse them everytime I have to pass them up for my flip-flops!

I even miss the sweat! Ah, well…… Getting old sucks (I reserve the use of that word for times when no other word will do….).

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,14:21)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2008,18:39) Hi Jodi, Yes I have studied a lot in those humanistic fields too. You do have to decide whether the teachings of Jesus or the rationalisations of men are truth. You have to decide whether the teachings of Yeshua are true, OR that of pagan traditions and the interpretations of the 'early Christian fathers,' that were ignorant and superstitious, are true.

Jodi

NH makes a valid point. Why don't you answer him.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 27 2008,22:51)

Quote (Jodi @ June 28 2008,15:00) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2008,19:42) Hi GB, Peter was a vessel. Was Jesus speaking with the man from the Gaderenes or the spirits within him when he said GO? Mt8 28And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. 29And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? 30And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. 31So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. 32And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. Jesus was talking to the infection when he said go, just like he was talking to the infection here in the woman and healed her through the mere use of words. Lu 4:39 and having stood over her, he rebuked the fever, and it left her, and presently, having risen, she was ministering to them. Yeshua healed the men through the use of words. Yeshua transferred the infection (unclean or evil spirits) that were making the men crazy into the pigs, which inturn made the pigs crazy, so crazy they drowned themselves. Jodi Where is it written that it was a sickness or an infection. This is a gross misinterpretation of the scriptures, and who is telling stories now? And luke 4:39 doesnt mention demons or a devil either. I don’t have time at the moment but will respond to your huge post. WJ

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,13:29)

WJ, You would have to go back and read my posts on demon possession to understand my position.

Hi Jodi

Why go back. I have read your post and I fully understand what you are saying, and I think scripturally you are in error.

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,13:29)

I don't feel like rehashing them at the moment. So if your really interested, go for it.

No need to rehash them or go back, for if the scriptures in question contradicts you then why should we go over your apologetic reasons for contradicting the scriptures.

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,13:29)

If demons were fallen angels, why would they want to enter the swine? Were the demons themselves crazy, or were they making the men crazy?

I don’t necessarily believe they were fallen angels, but I sure do not believe they were the figment of Yeshua’s or men’s imagination, and surely not an infection. This is gross inference into the scripture. Infections do not carry on conversations.

How could Yeshua give and infection permission to go into the swine? So these evil thoughts or infection asked Yeshua for permission to go into swine? Even more amazing are these evil thoughts or infection made the swine commit suicide. So I suppose Yeshua was a medium or just creating some magic here.

And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. Mark 5:12, 13

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,13:29)

Briefly, my position on demons comes from the original form of the Greek word for demon, which is not defined as fallen angels who possess.That would be a concept developed by the RCC, originating in pagan tradition.

I see the same ole fear tactic, if the RCC believed it, it must be wrong. You do believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Yeshua don’t you? Well so does the RCC. So let’s throw the baby out with the bath water.

Sorry, but the concept originates in the scriptures but, somehow you think that you have this new revelation.

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,13:29)

The people in the NT who have demons, evil spirits/unclean spirits have symptoms, which are they are mad, blind, and mute.

Yes the devil as we have shown with the legion can do that to men who have opened themselves to divination and God only knows what other sins. In fact the incident you are talking about where Yeshua healed the man. Afterwards the Pharisees accused him of casting the spirits out by Beelzebub ( a name which in the Greek means the name of satan and the prince of evil spirits) the prince or ruler of demons. So does these evil thoughts or infections you speak of rule over other evil thoughts or infections. This is ludicrous.

Immediately after Yeshua explains a kingdom that is divided against itself cannot stand, and that satan (evil thoughts or infections as you put it) does not cast out satan (or evil thoughts or infections). Evil thoughts or infections do not have a kingdom.

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,13:29)

The OT tells us directly that God sends onto people madness, blindness and muteness. The OT even says that God sends down evil, evil messengers, and evil spirits upon man.

Oh you mean like the evil Spirit sent from God onto Saul? Or the satan that apeared before the Lord the book of Job speaks of?

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,13:29)

So I really don't believe that I am GROSSLY misinterpreting scripture Sir. Demons not only represent in the Greek a basic term for an evil spirit, but also represent according to the bible false gods, which God inturn tells us that these demons have NO POWER, they cannot talk or walk.

Grossly? You are confusing idols made by men’s hands and being worshipped, with the demons that influence them to do so, Mam!

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,13:29)

The only trouble that they can cause is the false doctrine the people make up to go along with these false gods, or the people who think they have become one of them or are a half breed child of one of them.

It is you who brings this new false gospel with scriptural contradictions and apologetics.

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,13:29)

Why don't you answer this question WJ that I asked in this post? Here it is, “If demons were fallen angels, why would they want to enter the swine? Were the demons themselves crazy, or were they making the men crazy?”

I have answered you and will answer you again.

I don’t necessarily believe they were fallen angels, but I sure do not believe they were the figment of Yeshua’s or men’s imagination, and surely not an infection. This is gross inference into the scripture. Infections do not carry on conversations.

How could Yeshua give an infection permission to go into the swine? So these evil thoughts or infection asked Yeshua for permission to go into swine? Even more amazing are these evil thoughts or infections made the swine commit suicide. So I suppose Yeshua was a medium or just creating some magic here.

And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. Mark 5:12, 13

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,13:29)

I have talked about this before, that is, what the mentally ill are capable of doing. I studied in college the mentally ill under three fields, psychology, sociology and special needs education. People with mental disorders have conditions from a broad spectrum, where some are very dumb while others are extremely intelligent in certain areas. Just because the 'evil spirits' are talking to Jesus and know who he is changes nothing in my view. In all honestly it fits in perfectly with my understanding of that which is capable within the mentally ill.

No it doesn’t fit your philosophical view at all. For evil thoughts do not leave one man by permission of Yeshua and enter swine and kill 2000 of them.    

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,13:29)

This is all very interesting to me. Pagans believed in the sort of things you guys believe of which is not substantiated in scripture. Sinful angels are not said to hold the same powers of YHWH, being able to inflict people with mental and physical infirmities.

Oh so now YHWH is the one who afflicts them? I suppose Yeshua forgot to tell us that. It was by the Spirit of God that he cast these evil Spirits, and claimed that satan is not divided against himself.  Your beliefs are rather pagan for they have no basis in the scriptures.

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,13:29)

Demons, Greek for daimon represent evil spirits, of which God can and does cast on people. The human brain is very complex and extraordinary to say the least if you have ever studied the biology of it. I am more inclined to follow what is said in scripture and apply it to the knowledge man has gained recently, over that of believing in pagan myths, which is what the early Christian 'fathers' did.

How sad, that you believe Yeshua was going around undoing the works of YHWH. That is a pagan myth my lady.

WJ  

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 01 2008,12:58)

Hi Jodi, Sin dwells within us. Is there one god of the world or millions?

NH

Valid point!

[gollamudi]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2008,05:22)

Adam….> remember what a Spirit is , it's words that are expressions of thought and they do trouble people all of us at times. If you go to a movie and see a sad movie you become sad, why? because the sounds or words you heard filled you heart with sadness, Jesus said the words i am telling are Spirit and life . why are they spirit because they are expression of thought and why are they life, because the effect our lives. Jesus had through God the ability to rid the mind of these Evil thoughts or Spirits, there are all kinds of them clean and unclean, peaceful and valiant, and so on, they all have there beginning in thoughts and are expressed in words. There every where, these spirits are but thoughts expressed in words, thats why when Jesus cast them out of a person they were actually speak because they are expressed thoughts until they are cast out then they had no control of any thing, Spirits are the expression of though through words, both good and evil. Good and Evil words are every where we are constantly bombarded with both Good and evil words. Thats why Paul said think on whatsoever is Good, lovely, of a good report.Why because they are the spirits of good things. Hope this helped Adam Love and peace to you and yours brother…………….gene

Hi brother Gene,
Thanks for your nice reply. But I still could not get your way of understanding as well as of Jodi fully. I do believe that all adversaries are not devils or satan. But what's in this world are all those spirits used to cry ” hey! Jesus you are the Son of God, don't trouble us?” I can not simply ignore these writings in the Gospels even Paul cast out evil spirit from a sooth-saying girl. I also believe these evil spirits can not be the fallen angels as many in this forum believe. But I can not just believe that there are no literal evil spirits and no personal Satan who is our adversary from the beginning.
I may need more study on this subject.
Thanks again for your caring response for me.
Peace to you.
Adam

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ…..Jodi using the word infection was metaphorically speaking. I noticed you enjoy making fun of people a lot which is hardly becoming of a pastor, you seem to do this every time you don't understand what someones talking about. When people are expressing serious dialog I really don't think that is called for. O, by the way have you got around to showing me where i contradicted my self on the Will thing yet, or is that just another one of your false accusations. And all the time claiming to be a minister.

[dirtyknections]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2008,19:19)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 01 2008,12:58) Hi Jodi, Sin dwells within us. Is there one god of the world or millions? NH Valid point!

sure is

[dirtyknections]

Quote (gollamudi @ July 01 2008,20:01)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2008,05:22) Adam….> remember what a Spirit is , it's words that are expressions of thought and they do trouble people all of us at times. If you go to a movie and see a sad movie you become sad, why? because the sounds or words you heard filled you heart with sadness, Jesus said the words i am telling are Spirit and life . why are they spirit because they are expression of thought and why are they life, because the effect our lives. Jesus had through God the ability to rid the mind of these Evil thoughts or Spirits, there are all kinds of them clean and unclean, peaceful and valiant, and so on, they all have there beginning in thoughts and are expressed in words. There every where, these spirits are but thoughts expressed in words, thats why when Jesus cast them out of a person they were actually speak because they are expressed thoughts until they are cast out then they had no control of any thing, Spirits are the expression of though through words, both good and evil. Good and Evil words are every where we are constantly bombarded with both Good and evil words. Thats why Paul said think on whatsoever is Good, lovely, of a good report.Why because they are the spirits of good things. Hope this helped Adam Love and peace to you and yours brother…………….gene Hi brother Gene, Thanks for your nice reply. But I still could not get your way of understanding as well as of Jodi fully. I do believe that all adversaries are not devils or satan. But what's in this world are all those spirits used to cry ” hey! Jesus you are the Son of God, don't trouble us?” I can not simply ignore these writings in the Gospels even Paul cast out evil spirit from a sooth-saying girl. I also believe these evil spirits can not be the fallen angels as many in this forum believe. But I can not just believe that there are no literal evil spirits and no personal Satan who is our adversary from the beginning. I may need more study on this subject. Thanks again for your caring response for me. Peace to you. Adam

Your concerns are valid brother GM…and are also ones which they have not been able to give a reasonable answer based on their interpretation…

Satan…has blinded them…you can rest knowing that GOD has blessed you with the sight to see the GOD of this world…

Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Revelation 16:14
They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

[GeneBalthrop]

Gollamudi………the problem Adam lyes in the word (SPIRIT) once you fully understand that word, then the rest will fall into place. Jesus told us what Spirit is, it is expressed intellect, WORDS are Spirit. Jesus said the (Words) i am telling you are (spirit) and life. In the beginning was the (word) expressed intellect and was God. Jesus said God is Spirit and he also said no one has seen Him at any time, so how is he exposed to us through words which is spirit Just like Jesus said My Word are spirit. We are told to try the spirits to see if they are of God, what does that mean, what are we trying is it not words. So words form life and they come from our thoughts and refelect or life and express our lifes through our words, Jesus said it is not what a man eats that defiel Him, but what comes out of his mouth that fefileth the man, because it proceeds from the heart and reveals the spirit of the man, but how it is through His words.

So with that understanding we need to realize that there are clean and unclean spirits expressed through words. God showed the Carnal is Israelites this by intrducing the concept through clean and unclean foods. He was teaching them they have got to make a differenct between the two the clean you eat (take to yourself) the unclean you reject, this Physical law was for a spiritual principle. If we take to ourselves porno magazines or movies we are (eating) taking to ourself unclean Spirits and they are filling our minds and the more a person does that the more corrupt they become. People can become so corrupted by these things it can and often does completely take them over. But on the other side taking (eating) good things and clean thought through words does the same thing it fills us with what is Good and as one grows the other dies. But we can with the power of God”s Spirit are being influenced to chose the clean things even thought we are living in a world where the unclean is ever where. Thats why Paul sow to the spirit you will reap life sow to the Flesh you reap death. We can and do both at times, but with Gods Spirit influencing us, when we fail we repent and put the unclean out of our lives it a process as we grow in Grace (God influencing our hearts) and Knowledge.

No matter how bad our state is God can Clean it up and does all the time, He can completely remove all uncleanness from anyone. When these unclean (Spirits) i.e. intellects were in position of a men Jesus would by the hand of God cast them our of the mind of that person. God simply removed them and the person became whole.

The biggest problem demon ism is that the Churches has made them into a kind of boogie man ideology like you are some how not in control of them. remember the only thing that can control you is your thoughts and with God's thought i.e. filling you mind evil will flee, resist the devil and he will flee from you. Yes the devil lives in thoughts of the mind and is expressed by word and thats what Spirit is. And he exists every where in this world but thanks be to GOD we have overcome the world and all that in it. This is a very hough subject there just isn't space here to go into more details but if there is a specific part we can discuss it. But the KEY is understand the Word (Spirit).

love to you and your Adam…………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

DK………I think Satan may have blinded your eyes on this subject why are you and a few other like Nick and WJ are so quick to trow out such accusations all the time. What the spirit behind that?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 02 2008,02:00)

WJ…..Jodi using the word infection was metaphorically speaking. I noticed you enjoy making fun of people a lot which is hardly becoming of a pastor, you seem to do this every time you don't understand what someones talking about. When people are expressing serious dialog I really don't think that  is called for. O, by the way have you got around to showing me where i contradicted my self on the Will thing yet, or is that just another one of your false accusations. And all the time claiming to be a minister.

GB

It really doesn’t matter to me what you think about me. I am a preacher of the Gospel and a defender of the truth.

Instead of you making all these personal attacks, why don't you just show me where I was making fun of Jodi.

There is nothing funny about false doctrine.

Why don't you just show me where I was making fun and where what I am saying is wrong?

But this is what you do; instead of addressing a post that you disagree with, you start throwing out personal accusations and start hollering “Trinity” all is of the “Trinity” if it doesn’t agree with you. That is lame and weak to say the least. And now you are attacking me as a minister because I strongly apose this heritical teaching that “Metophorically” satan and demons are simply mens evil thoughts or infections or sicknesses that make men deaf dumb and crazy. There is spiritual warfare going on in every believer, and to not know who the enemy is would be catastrophic to a believer who is in the battle.

I simply was reverberating Jodi's own words when she called the doctrine of satan and demons “pagan myths”. Her teaching is in gross error. Is anything that I said any less than what everyone else here does in calling the Trinitarian view a teaching from pagan or Babylonian origin, or that a Trinitarian is a minister of satan or a liar and deciever?

So please hold the judgmental attitude and criticism and just post something substantive to the dialogue if you can.

[gollamudi]

Hi brother Gene,
I appreciate your concern for me in explaining the definition of spirits and Satan. I partially agree with you on that. But still I need to more study on this. I certainly take your points into consideration and study the subject of real demons(spirits) and Satan.

Hi brothers please don't engage in personal attacks at each other. I know we are sticking to our beliefs and not seeing the point of view from others. We should not scold or throw hard words at our brothers. Please be patient, every thing will come to light.
Thanks
Adam

[GeneBalthrop]

Adam………What bother my more then anything is when some one says you contradicted yourself or say you say something you haven't said, or infer something you didn't there should be rules on this site that would reprimand people who do that. If your going to say some one said something the least have the decency to be accurate about what they said.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

One being through his kingdom has an amazing influence over the behaviour of men.

[gollamudi]

Again a big series verses no stuff.

[NickHassan]

Hi,

The EVIL ONE appears often in scripture

Matthew 13:19
“When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart.

Matthew 13:38
and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

John 17:15
“I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.

Ephesians 6:16
in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, and He will strengthen and protect you from the evil one.

1 John 2:13
I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.

1 John 2:14
I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

1 John 3:12
not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.

1 John 5:18
We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 John 5:19
We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

[Irene]

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2008,17:47)

Quote (Jodi @ July 01 2008,14:44) I think I'll go jog a peaceful couple of miles, OH WAIT!!!  I want to go too!  Oh, to jog….my knee has been killing me and I haven't had a good run for nearly a month now.  I just stare at my running shoes and curse them everytime I have to pass them up for my flip-flops! I even miss the sweat!  Ah, well……  Getting old sucks (I reserve the use of that word for times when no other word will do….).

I so love you, old sucks, you are so right young chick.

Love Irene

[NickHassan]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 02 2008,02:57)

DK………I think Satan may have blinded your eyes on this subject why are you and a few other like Nick and WJ  are so quick to trow out such accusations all the time. What the spirit behind that?

Hi GB,
I have never called you a liar or a deceiver or any of the other names you apply to others here. So your accusations seem to fall back on you.

I do attack false doctrines and sloppy treatment of the sacred words and that can upset people such as yourself. It is necessary though to maintain high standards when we approach the Word of God.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick ….no you insinuate these thing but just not brave enough to openly speak it. You take the position as if you are a decider of what is scriptural or not scriptural. Not only with me but most others, trying to give off the impression you are more scriptural knowledgeable then others Here when in fact you are not more knowledgeable then anyone else here in fact what you have shown me is you are way less knowledgeable then most.

[Author]

Posts