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GB,
Same with Peter as Jesus said Satan had asked to sift him like wheat
He gained strength and humility being made a shepherd to his brothers.Nick………God never accused Job of sinning. your using a poor example. I said our sins not others. What i said was according you, Satan's servants are causing us to sin. GOD is said to be a Just GOD, who said, A Father will not be held accountable for his sons sin neither the son for the fathers, but each shall give account fro his (OWN) sins, right, So why punish us for something some one else is doing then. Your teaching of Devils and Demons and Satan is nothing but false pagan teachings. All will give account for there OWN SINS because it is (THEIR) sin not some spook or his cronies going around jumping in and out of people. Why do you preach voodoo religion Nick. IMO
peace……………………………gene
Quote David……..Ask yourself why you didn't mention it , its there isn't it. Fact is it destroys what you trying to twist it to say. As i said you can makes scripture say almost anything you want but leaving out or changing or adding words. I didn't mention it for the same reason I didn't mention Gen 4:15, Luke 2:29, Hebrews 7:2.
I didn't mention it because what we are discussing and what I was asking and what you have again managed to AVOID (as usual) is my question, which isn't so much related to what you bring up.Gene, YOU WERE WRONG about my rational. My rational involved the obvious part of the scripture that I kept quoting. You seem blind to that part and mentioned something unrelated. And yet you accuse me of the same? But that's not what we're discussing. That's not what I'm wanting answered and what you continue to ignore.
so, if you could read this:
“The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact . . . . not like Cain, WHO ORIGINATED WITH THE WICKED ONE and slaughtered his brother.That is what my rational is based on.
The scripture seems to begin by indicating two Fathers–God and the Devil (or Slanderer). It seems that some people can be called the children of God, or the children of the slanderer, depending on how they act.
THEN, we are told that Cain “ORIGINATED WITH THE WICKED ONE.” (That makes me think this wicked one, is also the slanderer (devil) that was being discussed.)Hence, there was someone (a wicked slanderer) who existed before Cain.
Now, we know that the snake (who revelation 12:9 associates with “satan the devil”) did slander and lie about God and about them not dying. Snakes don't usually talk by themselves, so I realize that for your beliefs to work, you have to make this out to be figurative or a fairy tale or something.
Unless you think Adam was the wicked one that Cain originated with. That at least makes some sense. EXCEPT, AT THE BEGINNING OF THE VERSE, we are told that people either originate with God or the Slanderer. But ADAM isn't known for being a slanderer. He had other problems. What was the first lie? Who gave it? Oh, that's right, the snake. Maybe he originated with the snake. Or, maybe he originated with the one behind the snake, the actual one behind the puppet–Satan the Devil. (Rev 12:9)
I assume you will ignore this post and my actual rational, and then you will create another false rational and argue against it. Then, you'll throw in some comment about me being a JW. Would you consider yourself a Christian Gene?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 26 2009,12:44) GB,
Same with Peter as Jesus said Satan had asked to sift him like wheat
He gained strength and humility being made a shepherd to his brothers.
Nick……….interesting i thought Jesus called Peter SATAN. So then Jesus said Satan ask if he could sift Peter like wheat, Who did Satan Ask was it Jesus or who. Could it simply be that Jesus saw Peters problem as adversarial behavior that he had and that would eventually sift him out from following Jesus as wheat and so he prayed to GOD that Peter's Faith would not fail. So it seemed to be a problem with Peters Faith that was the problem. Where does it say He prayed to God to not let SATAN (a) Being cause this. It was Peters own mentality that was the problem and it would have destroyed him from following Jesus so he prayed for Him. IMOpeace…………………….gene
GB,
No he did not tell Peter to get behind him but he told Satan, just as he had when being tested on the top of the temple.Nick……….So you conclude that there was some invisible Person that Peter didn't know about that was making him say what he said right, and Jesus could see this beings but Peter could not right, and you believe he wasn't talking to Peter then right> Nick, you wrong Jesus was talking to and about Peter, Peter had just taken Him aside and spoke to him that he was not going to let Jesus do what he said and Jesus responded to (HIM) Get behind me Satan. Not some other unseen being , It was Peters adversarial attitude the was the Satan in Him, no unseen being, Just his intellect in Him. If you did not have the Satan ideology you have you could see this clearly. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………………….gene
GB,
Do you not believe the teaching of Jesus about unclean spirits?
No attitude problem with Peter as he had just earned the praise of his master.Quote Ask yourself why you didn't mention it , its there isn't it. Fact is it destroys what you trying to twist it to say. It of course in no way destroys what I said. If Cain was wicked, it could be said that he originated with the wicked one. My unanswered and avoided question was: Who is this wicked one?
But saying that Cain is wicked doesn't make the fact that the Bible says Cain originated with some “wicked one” go away, does it? More dancing around the scriptures, dancing around the questions. And now, just avoiding the question. I guess that proves it.
David………..all man kind lies in wickedness the whole earth, and are children of evil and the wrath of God is on them, But they still are also Gods creation and when they recieve Holy Spirit they then are born of GOD, “know you not (NOW) we are the sons of God”. Jesus plainly said “if you being (EVIL) know how to give good gifts how much more will God give them of the Spirit that ask. The word (BEING) evil, here means exist in an evil state. All man kind does because lust of the flesh and lust of the eyes and pride of life are effecting ereryone and it was received from the World we live in, as John said. David there are only to states of existence (EVIL and GOOD) we are all dealing with both states, when we do evil the evil state rules our heart , as in the case of Cain, God even told him that sin lied at his door and He must master it. Jesus mastered this sin nature in the wilderness by the Holy Spirit given Him and we must also overcome it the same way, by the Spirit of GOD as He did. But be assured the sin nature is in Us and not some invisible spook going around Jumping in and out of people. There is (NO) SATAN Being , only Evil and Good intellect or SPIRIT> IMO David come out of those false pagan teachings.
love and peace to you and yours……………………………gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 26 2009,13:08) GB,
No Job found humility after Satan's testing produced hidden pride.
Nick…….Scripture says it was GOd who brought all this on Job, God was the originator and finisher of the work on Job, not some spook. Satan is Just a Adjective for adversarial spirit and is not a person, but a state of evil and is part of God intellect and God uses to to balance out life, because life is a state of GOOD and EVIL. And God uses evil when needed as well as good. Wisdom is the balance of these to forces or SPIRITS (INTELLECTS). The Evil part of God intellect was used to teach Job what he needed. It had nothing to do with a bet between God and the Devil as some presume. One of the Spirits (intellects) of God is the knowledge of Evil and another is the Knowledge of GOOD. The balance of these is what gives him His Wisdom. IMOlove and peace to you…………………….gene
GB,
Taoism is not of God.
“Intellect”does not appear in scripture.
In whose name do you offer these strange thoughts?Quote David come out of those false pagan teachings. I would like some quotes (not from you, actual quotes from anywhere else) explaining the connection between paganism and the belief in Satan as a being.
It's really easy to do this with Christmas, easter, the trinity, hellfire, immortal soul, etc.
But, can you do it with this? I'm just curious what you are basing this on.
David……..Where do you find it origins in Scripture was it taught any where in the old testament that a preexistent being was going to die and enter into a womens womb and be born again. Moses said The LORD would raise up from among there Brethren one like Him not bring someone from some other preexistence time. And this isn't even mentioning what purpose would it serve for God to do that , what would that show us if a preexistent super being was reincarnated and lived a perfect life, so what, what good does that do us , and could we really relate with him and he with us as one of our own, NO not really. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Gene, so you don't have anything then?
That's what I thought.
I ask you about pagan sources and you say it's not in the Bible. We look a the Bible and you say it has pagan sources. Quite the shell game.
I'm not actually disagreeing with you that there may be pagans who believed in spirit's who existed before coming to the earth. I was just thinking you could provide an example–being that this is apparently what you believe. I was wrong.
Example: Christmas is pagan. You look in most encyclopedias and it will talk about the Roman Saturnalia or the birthday of the invicible sun at the end of december. It will mention “exchanging” gifts, the druids and their evergreens, the holly, mistletoe and the magic associated. It will mention the lights and how they brought lights in their home as a form of sympathetic magic (doing one thing has a similar result–with the actual sun).
So, with Christmas it's really easy to see the pagan connections. My question to you, once again:
Can you show me a connection between paganism and Christ's pre-existence?
David……..Where does it say in the bible there is no trinity or that it is a pagan teaching, or for that mater where does it say in the bible that Christmas is a pagan practice, or for that matter Ester is pagan, so why do you believe they are , You ask me for bible proof and you don't have any for what you believe is. Why do you have to go out side Scripture to prove them but are unable to go outside scripture and prove (the conception of a god person incarnation is not new ) the incarnation was a Pagan belief , they taught several forms of it in fact, Where other Gods were reincarnated into human God-Men. Check it out on the web and you will see.
peace and love to you…………………gene
Quote Where does it say in the bible there is no trinity or that it is a pagan teaching, or for that mater where does it say in the bible that Christmas is a pagan practice, or for that matter Ester is pagan, so why do you believe they are , A LITTLE RESEARCH OF HISTORY, GENE.
Quote You ask me for bible proof NO GENE, I AM ASKING YOU FOR HISTORICAL PROOF, ANY PROOF REALLY, THAT JESUS PRE-EXISTENCE IS BASED ON PAGANISM. (I PROVIDED YOU AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT I WANTED, WITH CHRISTMAS.)
Quote why do you have to go out side Scripture to prove them
BECAUSE NOWHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY: “JESUS PRE-EXISISTENCE IS BASED ON A PAGAN IDEA.”
YOU ARE SAYING THAT. I AM ASKING FOR PROOF. As I said, i don't doubt that there are pagan similarities. I was just asking if you could provide anything.David …..why do you have to go outside scripture to prove Christmas or easter? what the difference.
peace…………………..gene
Quote David …..why do you have to go outside scripture to prove Christmas or easter? what the difference. You said this and this and this and this were pagan. How do we know? By checking history. (Not all history is contained in the Bible.) Why do people celebrate Christmas on Dec 25th? History tells us that. The Bible does not. You are the one that made the claim. I'm sorry I asked and will stop asking and assume you have no concrete facts.
Thankyou anyway.
david
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 27 2009,06:29) GB,
Taoism is not of God.
“Intellect”does not appear in scripture.
In whose name do you offer these strange thoughts?
Nick……..does Mind appear in scripture and guess what goes on in the mind Nick, Thoughts, and those thoughts make up your intellect. now was the so hard to put together and understand ?peace and love to you……………………..gene
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