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Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 30 2008,19:10) Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 30 2008,19:04) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 30 2008,18:58) In the end Judas made his own decisions, YHWH did not influence them.
I don't think so. It was prophesied that Judas (or one like him) would betray the Christ and do what he did.God's purposes are always carried out. Someone had to do the dirty business. My question is – who put that desire in this persons heart? Was it God or Satan?
While it was prophesied that Judas would betray that does not mean the YHWH prompted Judas to act the way he did. YHWH, the creator of time, is outside of time and knows the beginning from the end. Judas made his own decisions.
Amen to your comments here, brother Isaiah. God knew the precise time that He would send Jesus into the world and he saw that there would be a Judas even as he knows that there will be some who will betray Jesus even now.God does not tempt anyone to do evil. Judas saw an opportunity to make a little extra money and so, he obeyed his own evil thoughts. However, it appears, according to the scripture, that he did not know his action would cause Jesus to be condemned to die the death that he died.
God is not willing that any man should perish but that all should come to repentance, and that included Judas.
I believe God does affect an outcome by manuvering people in and out of situations to accomplish His will. However I do not believe that God forces a person to do something evil no more then I force a ball dropped, to hit the ground, both do what comes naturally. What I'm saying is, if God needs something “evil” done to accomplish a greater good (such as judas betraying Jesus for the good of all mankind) He will approve the addition of judas into the apostles. I also want to add that I believe that God only pursues that which ends in the greater good, “what satan meant for evil, God meant for good”.
Wm
Hi ST,
Really?
Matthew 26:24
“The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”Nick,
I don't understand what it is you disagree with. The scripture you referenced seems to support what I wrote. Unless you're referring to Jesus but even He had a choice (I could ask my Father to send angels) but He choose to do the Fathers will (Your will, not Mine).Wm
Hi ST,
Is it written that Judas will be added to the apostles?
There are only 12 in the new Jerusalem[Rev21]Nick,
My opinion, They elected a replacement (Act 1:26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.) but I believe it was Paul (in God's eyes) who replaced judas.1 Corinthians 15:7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
Do you believe that judas is to be the twelfth apostle in new Jerusalem?
Wm
Hi ST,
No.
Interesting point about Paul.
But there are more than 12 anyway
Romans 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.1 Corinthians 12:29
Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?Another version puts it as (7Greet my relatives [a] Andronicus and Junias, who were in jail with me. They are highly respected by the apostles and were followers of Christ before I was.)
I could accept that there are more than 12 (I don't see it but..), but I believe we would both agree that there are to be 12 who stand out as shown in the scripture you referenced.
Wm
Yep.
Number 652
Transliteration:
apostolos {ap-os'-tol-os}
Word Origin:
from 649
TDNT:
1:407,67
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
apostle 78, messenger 2, he that is sent 1Total: 81
Definition:
a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers
of Barnabas
of Timothy and SilvanusHi Shania,
This is from another thread where I quoted Rev12Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2008,19:33)
Hi Jodi,
God did not create man evil but in His image.
The serpent drew him from God to follow him.Rev12
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.Hi Nick,
Adam and Eve were created in the LIKENESS of God. This is a pretty ambiguous statement. I believe it means that from the beginning of time man did indeed reflect parts of Yah's character, while other parts must be learned through having ones own experiences, and then being instructed and disciplined when we make mistakes. While we have a natural inclination to compare and differentiate, as well as desire to design and achieve, we are not by nature patient, rather it takes much hard work on a parents behalf to teach their children self control and how to share.
What about all the scriptures Nick that say we sin because of our own nature, and that it is our hearts and minds that cause us to sin? There is not one direct scripture that talks of a jealous angel manipulating us to turn from the ways of God. In my opinion there aren't any that even do a good job as to hint at such a belief. What do you suppose is meant when scripture says, “by nature we are children of wrath”? What would happen if you allowed your child to be raised by a pack of wolves? What happens to a baby if he is not spoken to or taught anything? Every good thing that comes out of man is not a result of denying sinful angel influence and simply allowing our likeness of God to shine. Every good thing that comes out of man, comes from God's Spirit working in man and is accomplished over time and is often a struggle on man's part.
Ro 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will.
We need to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. Left alone to follow the self man leads himself into evil, because YHWH ALONE is the source of righteousness.
Here is something I posted awhile ago on the fallen angels thread in regards to the identity of the serpent.
Genesis 3:1 And the serpent hath been subtile above every beast of the field which Jehovah God hath made, and he saith unto the woman, `Is it true that God hath said, Ye do not eat of every tree of the garden?'
Genesis 1:14 So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. 15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”
Let’s think about this, the serpent is symbolic of something, and I think it very well could be the human brain. We know that the human brain is more clever and more crafty then any animal in which Yah created when He made the heavens and earth. The punishment given to the serpent is very interesting. What mental capacity do humans have over animals that could be viewed as a curse? Our brains have the capacity to understand death, and this knowledge does indeed affect our behavior.
Romans 16:18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
Philippians 3:18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.
Psalms 44:25 For bowed to the dust hath our soul, Cleaved to the earth hath our belly.
Here we see that the belly is represented as being our soul and that it cleaves to the dust or to the earth.
Psalms 119:25 Cleaved to the dust hath my soul, Quicken me according to Thy word.
Micah 7:17 They lick dust as a serpent, as fearful things of earth, They tremble from their enclosures, Of Jehovah our God they are afraid, Yea, they are afraid of Thee.
Hmm, here we see man likened to a serpent eating dust. Putting these scriptures together I believe the truth as to the serpent’s identity is easily seen. The serpent is the soul, or mind of man. In the garden Adam and Eve set their minds on earthly things instead of on the Spirit of Yah. They desired to be wise and their minds were filled with deceit based on their observations and their ignorance. Yah punished the mind of man by cursing it with the knowledge of death. With the knowledge of death comes fear and with fear comes the minds preoccupation with it.
Just like the adversary/satan and the devil are never specifically called out to be jealous sinful angels, neither is the serpent. However, man and his ways on Earth, are indeed DIRECTLY referred to being ALL three! I much rather have the scriptures speak for themselves then follow in man's traditions.
Revelations 12-
The Great dragon with its heads and horns, as I said previously, is directly said to be representing Kings in high authority and power, whom in time will all FALL. I believe it is neither wise or sound doctrine to take a vision of what is said to be a Great Sign and choose part of it to be a literal story to fit your belief.
There is a pattern throughout the bible and that is, all the evils in the world come from man's own mind and heart.
Ps 28:3 Draw me not with the wicked, And with workers of iniquity, Speaking peace with their neighbours, And evil in their heart.
Jer 3:17 At that time they cry to Jerusalem, `O throne of Jehovah,' And gathered unto her hath been all the nations, For the name of Jehovah, to Jerusalem, Nor do they go any more after the stubbornness of their evil heart.
Jer 14:14 Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and thedelusions of their own minds.
Jer 18:12 –And they have said, It is incurable, For after our own devices we do go, And each the stubbornness of his evil heart we do.
Jer 23:26 How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?
Mt 12:34 `Brood of vipers! how are ye able to speak good things — being evil? for out of the abundance of the heart doth the mouth speak.
Mt 15:19 for out of the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, whoredoms, thefts, false witnessings, evil speakings:
Lu 6:45 `The good man out of the good treasure of his heart doth bring forth that which [is] good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart doth bring forth that which [is] evil; for out of the abounding of the heart doth his mouth speak
Who does the bible claim to be deceiving man and thus the whole world?
Mark 7:20 And he said — `That which is coming out from the man, that doth defile the man; 21 for from within, out of the heart of men, the evil reasonings do come forth, adulteries, whoredoms, murders, 22 thefts, covetous desires, wickedness, deceit, arrogance, an evil eye, evil speaking, pride, foolishness; 23 all these evils do come forth from within,
and they defile the man.'Romans 1:28 And, according as they did not approve of having God in knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mind, to do the things not seemly; 29 having been filled with all unrighteousness, whoredom, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil dispositions; whisperers,
Ro 3:13 A sepulchre opened [is] their throat; with their
tongues they used deceit; poison of asps [is] under their lips.Ephesians 4:22 ye are to put off concerning the former behaviour the old man, that is corrupt according to the desires of the deceit, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and to put on the new man, which, according to God, was created in righteousness and kindness of the truth.
Col 2:8 See that no one shall be carrying you away as spoil through the philosophy and vain deceit, according to the deliverance of men, according to the rudiments of the world, and not according to Christ,
Scripture shows that man deceives himself, as well as others. Man is specifically identified as the adversary and the slanderer who deceives the whole world.
No doubt that some of our hard earned tax paying money goes towards the personal benefits of politicians and special interest groups. We are not being deceived by politicians who are being manipulated by jealous angels, the truth is easy to see if you simply look at the REALITY of life, which is man is selfish ALL on his own accord and he not only cheats people, by taking their money for his own gain, but he delights in it as well through his own vanity.
Every evil that we see under the sun can be directly linked to man's own weaknesses from within his own heart and mind. Not only is this said to be true in the bible, but it is indeed reflected in the Reality of our world.
So you do not believe in the father of lies, the god of this world who controls those not in Christ.
He must be very pleased to be so unrecognised.
Men give him an easy ride.Nick and DK,
I have been told this before, and no offense put it just proves in my opinion that you have a veil over your head, where you would rather just hold onto your previous held beliefs then actually take the time to observe and think.
I believe in the father of lies, and the bible is clear 'to me' as to his identity. You don't find it interesting that in the bible not one time is a sinful angel likened to a serpent, snake, asp or viper, but man is directly called these things for being a liar?
The Old man is the adversary, the devil, the old serpent. The Old Man is the man in his natural state of ignorance untouched by God's Spirit. Adam and Eve were brought forth in this state. The New Man is the man who's character reflects the works of Yah's Spirit. Yeshua was brought forth into the world being surrounded by Yah's working Spirit, guiding him in every action. When we read in the bible of the adversary or the devil, what we are reading is not the Roman government oppressing people through the manipulation of jealous angels, what we are reading is a government that exemplifies the workings of the Old Man, the weak man who thirsts and hungers and fears life and will at any cost seek personal gain.
Nick you had said that man was created in God's image, then the serpent came and drew him away from God. Do you really believe it is so simple to be like our Creator? If we were so much like God in the beginning before we were tricked, how did we then allow ourselves to be tricked in the first place? Yah could not be tricked by a serpent or anything or anyone for that matter. That great image of God that you believe we possessed in the beginning certainly did not carry us very far.
Man who believes he is wise is a fool in his own reasoning, and how vein that reasoning is, thinking that he is not at fault for his own dirty deeds. There is NO description of an angel in the bible who has envy, jealousy and hate and lies and deceives in order to get what he wants. These are all descriptions IN the bible of MAN! So who is being fooled? I think you guys are fooling yourselves.
The problem that is held when someone says that the fallen Lucifer's greatest work is when he can trick you into believing he doesn't exist, is that it does indeed make man in no way responsible for the sins he commits and the evil he casts onto others. If I don't know that I am being influenced by a fallen angel, then I am not responsible for that manipulation.
This is the huge problem with this doctrine, no one can identify what are the works of these fallen angels. How do we know if they are committing our sins or if we ourselves are? It is pure absurdity because EVERY sin can be linked EASILY to man's OWN weaknesses.
Mark 7:21 For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.'”
So does anyone want to give me an example of those 'other sins' these angels get us to commit? These are all taken by man's own heart and mind that come forth from the nature of his flesh.
Galatians 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.Here is another example of a few adversaries/satans that men should be on guard for, and they do not include some sinful angel who is hiding under your bed waiting to overtake your brain. That idea is the epitome of childish thinking, and superstition. People who believe such are in complete denial of the true causes as to the sin in the world around them. Man is weakened and drawn to sin by his natural desires, for example his sexual desires. Mankind has created several adversaries/satans to pull away the individual man from decency. It may start from a sinful show on HBO and them move to a pornography magazine, then to inner active web site, and then to a brothel. Leo Tolstoy said which I have framed up in my living room, “wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.” Once again as, Matthew 18:7 says, “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the MAN through whom they come!
And yes how satan (man's ways) can turn into a messenger of light, teenage boys are growing up in a world where what is sinful is hidden because it is the norm, because the majority share in it, because it is cool and pleasurable.
As I have pointed out before, I see in Romans 1, that at some point God gave people over to their sins allowing for them to grow into further wickedness. Any person who chooses to view the reality of life, can easily see that ABUSE is a pattern. Usually someone who is abused as a child has a good chance of growing up to abuse his own children, often in greater ways because anger can easily build to more anger over time. A lack of self control can lead a person into sinful acts such as viewing child pornography, the next thing you know they molest a child, then that child grows up to molest a dozen children. When man is left in his evil ways, without the intervention of God, those ways grow more an more despicable and vile. I suppose it was some fallen angel that got inside a man's head and forced him to create a video game where the object of the 'game' the 'fun' of the game is to steel cars and rape girls. No, it is a society that continues to allow people to push the envelope further and further.
Oh, how we need God to desperately intervene and stop giving us up to do our own evils.
Romans 1:28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
So, I will ask again, what is left for fallen angels to manipulate us to do, it seems we are highly capable, when God leaves us alone, of committing the worst of the worst sins.
Nick and DK, can either of you give me a direct example of where a man is following the manipulation of a sinful angel?
Jodi..simply put…our “flesh” is sinful and we have a constant struggle against it..remember Pauls struggle with the flesh?…as indicated by the scriptures you quoted…that does not take away the fact that GOD's great advesary the devil is…
“walking about like a roaring lion seeking to devour someone”…
“the ruler of the authority of the air”…
“the god of this world”…
“throw down from heaven knowing he has a short period of time”…
“the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.”
“the evil one.”
” the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.”“the dominion of darkness”
“the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”
“the enemy who sows them is the devil”
“the prince of this world”
“the serpent”
“the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.”
“the evil one”
We are not saying that the Devil is responsible for all of our personal wrongs…Simply that Evil originated with the Devil and he and his demons permiate the world with badness…
Take this scripture with you
Ephesians 6:12 (New International Version)- 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 11 2008,04:25) Jodi..simply put…our “flesh” is sinful and we have a constant struggle against it..remember Pauls struggle with the flesh?…as indicated by the scriptures you quoted…that does not take away the fact that GOD's great advesary the devil is… “walking about like a roaring lion seeking to devour someone”…
“the ruler of the authority of the air”…
“the god of this world”…
“throw down from heaven knowing he has a short period of time”…
“the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.”
“the evil one.”
” the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.”“the dominion of darkness”
“the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”
“the enemy who sows them is the devil”
“the prince of this world”
“the serpent”
“the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.”
“the evil one”
We are not saying that the Devil is responsible for all of our personal wrongs…Simply that Evil originated with the Devil and he and his demons permiate the world with badness…
Take this scripture with you
Ephesians 6:12 (New International Version)- 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
DKExcellent.
It would be interesting to see how Jodi will explain all those scriptures away.
Blessings! WJ
Jodi..you asked can I show you an example of a man following a fallen angel…well here you go..
Matthew 8:28-34… 28When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[a] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29″What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
30Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”
32He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region.
Matthew 9:32…32While they were going out, a man who was demon-possessed and could not talk was brought to Jesus.
Matthew 12:22… 22Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see.
Acts 19:13-16…13Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” 14Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15(One day) the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?” 16Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.
Acts 16:16-18…16Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. 17This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.” 18She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.
1 Timothy 1:20…20Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
So Jodi…do not these evil spirits in these scriptures cause people to be “violent” and “practice divination”…are not violence and divination sins against GOD?
Hi WJ & DK
I also believe that there are literal demons(spirits) some of which jesus did cast them out. In fact the demons declared who Jesus was, crying ” you are the son of Most High God”
Jesus was tempted by Satan literally otherwise was he speaking to himself?
Jesus defined a spirit how it look like in Lk 24:37-39.
Christadelphians also don't believe real devil and Satan.
But I believe there are demonic spirits and real Satan. In fact Hell(eternal fire) is reserved for Satan and his angels (Matt 25:41).
How can we deny such scriptures my Sis Jodi?
AdamHi Jodi,
Lk22
31And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:Was Peter going to sift himself?
John 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.Did Judas enter himself?
Romans 16:20
And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.Will we bruise ourselves?
It is Jesus who spoke of the kingdom of darkness.
Luke 11:18
If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
Matthew 12:26
And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?God spoke with him
Job 1:7
And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.God rebuked him
Zechariah 3:2
And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?Quote (dirtyknections @ June 10 2008,09:25) Jodi..simply put…our “flesh” is sinful and we have a constant struggle against it..remember Pauls struggle with the flesh?…as indicated by the scriptures you quoted…that does not take away the fact that GOD's great advesary the devil is… “walking about like a roaring lion seeking to devour someone”…
“the ruler of the authority of the air”…
“the god of this world”…
“throw down from heaven knowing he has a short period of time”…
“the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.”
“the evil one.”
” the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.”“the dominion of darkness”
“the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”
“the enemy who sows them is the devil”
“the prince of this world”
“the serpent”
“the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.”
“the evil one”
We are not saying that the Devil is responsible for all of our personal wrongs…Simply that Evil originated with the Devil and he and his demons permiate the world with badness…
Take this scripture with you
Ephesians 6:12 (New International Version)- 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Hi DK,in all those examples you gave
god of this world, the evil one, ruler of the authority of the air..etc.
They are NEVER identified as a sinful jealous angel. You are INTERPRETING them to mean such. Scripture however, directly identifies them as man, not just any man, but the Old Man, the man who is still acting upon his sinful nature, rather then learning the ways of God. The man that can rise to power and oppress. The man that can create false doctrine and deceive others.
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
This scripture seems kind of odd given that we are being constantly reminded by Paul to deny our sinful nature.
Ro 7:5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.
Ro 8:8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
Ro 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death–that is, the devil—
Yeshua had to be flesh and blood and die in that flesh and blood in order to kill the devil, kind of an odd thing to do if the devil is some powerful spirit being. However it makes complete sense if the devil represents man's sinful nature. Recall that just before Yeshua's death we are told that 'he became sin for us,' and thus dieing as SIN, he destroyed sin.
Ephesians 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,
Col 2:11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ,
Is it not clear that the devil, the barrier, is the sinful nature of man, the Old Man that was, is now and will be at work in many different forms created through the ways and inventions of man?
Ac 13:10 and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?
To be the son of the devil is the same as being by nature a child of wrath, because the devil represents our sinful nature.
Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities , against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Ac 8:23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
2Ti 2:26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
Where is the scripture that links us being CAPTIVE to the manipulation and influence of sinful angels? There is not one. However we do see that we are indeed captive by deceptive philosophy and human tradition.
Context is very important in Ephesians 6. Paul speaks in Romans as how those in Christ no longer walk in their flesh, they through the Spirit have better access to self control, however in Ephesians he is warning these Christians against something else, where they will need a whole armor of God to protect them. Is not Paul warning the people against Christian persecution from the Roman government? Paul when writing Ephesians was himself a captive of this government.
We read in Ephesians 6:18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.
Who has Paul in chains, who was the ruler of the world at that time making it oppressed and dark for many people? Who had authority and stood up on High with vast amounts of power? Was it not the Roman government consisting of ideologies created through the wicked spirit of man?
Joh 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
I don't see any other example in the beginning of a murder or a liar other then Cain. The first man to be 'born' into the world.
Genesis 4:8 Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him. 9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” He
said, “I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?”DK you said, “We are not saying that the Devil is responsible for all of our personal wrongs…Simply that Evil originated with the Devil and he and his demons permiate the world with badness…”
Unfortunately for you scripture in no way backs this statement, only your false doctrine does.
Ro 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned–
James 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. 16 Don't be deceived, my dear brothers.
DON'T be deceived dear brothers, there are no jealous sinful angels trying to commit us to sin, but rather our own desires, our own nature, is the ORIGINATOR of the evil we see in this world.
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