Salvation

[chosenone]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2009,15:59)

Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 08 2009,13:07) NH.   If the 'others' of all nations follow Jesus and His teachings, then they must still be circumsized, tithe, stone adulterers, keep the Sabbath, and all the festivals, including the “day of stonement” which includes fasting for the day, and all of the “Law”.  These things Jesus taught while His ministy was to Israel, and still under the “Law”.   Is this how you see it? Blessings. Hi CO: Please give me the scriptures where Jesus taught the things that you indicate. Thanks

Hi 942767.
Jesus was a Jew, He was circumsized on the eighth day, a Jewish custom. He not only taught while under the law, Ga.4:4-5 …Now when the full time came, God delegates His Son, come of a woman, come under law,
5 that He should be reclaiming those under law, that we may be getting the place of a son.
He also “fulfilled” the Law (Matt.5:17) by following it perfectly.

If you want to know about the “Law”, read the book of Leviticus, you will be amazed how many 'laws' there were.

Also, in that era when Jesus taught, we had no part with God. Eph.2:11-12
…11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh — who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands —
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.
Notice that in that 'era', when Jesus was teaching, we (gentiles) were without God in the world. So how can anyone feel His (Jesus) message was to us?

Blessings.

[NickHassan]

HI Co,
So Jesus is not your Lord, your Teacher, your Master?
He is not for you the way but you follow another?
But he is lord of all?

[chosenone]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2009,19:31)

HI Co, So Jesus is not your Lord, your Teacher, your Master? He is not for you the way but you follow another? But he is lord of all?

Hi NH.
Christ Jesus is my Lord and Saviour, He died for my sins, payed my just punishment in my stead, He has 'justified' all mankind by this deed, God sees our sin no more.
2Cor.5:18-19 …18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.

But in accord with scripture, His (Jesus) teaching was to Israel, and to them only (Matt.15:24 & Ro.15:8)

Blessings.

[NickHassan]

Hi CO,
Di you just read that you had been saved?

[chosenone]

Hi NH.
1Tim4:9-11 …9 Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind,
11 especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.

1Tim.2:8 …8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,

Eph2:10 …10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

If I just read about salvation …then these of the scriptures that would apply.

Blessings.

[NickHassan]

Hi CO,
Amazing.
Just read a book and you can put your feet up?

[NickHassan]

CO,
If you do not suffer them now then you will suffer gnawing doubts sometime
that perhaps listening to and following the Shepherd is the more advisable way for all men.

1Jn5
6This is he who came(K) by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And(L) the Spirit is the one who testifies, because(M) the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. 9(N) If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God(O) that he has borne concerning his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God(P) has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God(Q) has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. 11And this is the testimony, that God gave us(S) eternal life, and(T) this life is in his Son. 12(U) Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

[942767]

Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 08 2009,17:00)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2009,15:59) Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 08 2009,13:07) NH.   If the 'others' of all nations follow Jesus and His teachings, then they must still be circumsized, tithe, stone adulterers, keep the Sabbath, and all the festivals, including the “day of stonement” which includes fasting for the day, and all of the “Law”.  These things Jesus taught while His ministy was to Israel, and still under the “Law”.   Is this how you see it? Blessings. Hi CO: Please give me the scriptures where Jesus taught the things that you indicate. Thanks Hi 942767.   Jesus was a Jew, He was circumsized on the eighth day, a Jewish custom.  He not only taught while under the law, Ga.4:4-5  …Now when the full time came, God delegates His Son, come of a woman, come under law, 5 that He should be reclaiming those under law, that we may be getting the place of a son. He also “fulfilled” the Law (Matt.5:17) by following it perfectly.   If you want to know about the “Law”, read the book of Leviticus, you will be amazed how many 'laws' there were.   Also, in that era when Jesus taught, we had no part with God. Eph.2:11-12   …11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh — who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands — 12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.   Notice that in that 'era', when Jesus was teaching, we (gentiles) were without God in the world.  So how can anyone feel His (Jesus) message was to us? Blessings.

Hi CO:

Jesus was raised by his earthly parents under the law, but in his ministry, he did not teach about circumcision, or stoning people and all that you claim that he taught.

I asked you to produce scriptures to justify what you indicated that he taught. Can you produce them?

[chosenone]

Hi 942767.
I was trying to explain that in the era that Jesus taught, the Jews were under the 'Law', and if Jesus message was also to the 'others' of all nations, then they also had to be under the 'law', which they were not. So I was useing examples as to why the nations could not have been taught by Jesus, and may have not made it clear about His teachings. He didn't teach the “Law”, they were already “under the Law”. I may have said He (Jesus) taught the law, but I did not mean to say that. He taught while “Under the Law”.
I had given you the scriptures in my answer in the top of this page. Jesus was a Jew, like all Jews He was under the “Law”. He “fulfilled the Law, meaning He kept it perfectly. The “law” was given by God to Moses, it was God who gave the law, it was not neccesary for Jesus to teach it, it was already known by all Jews. You say He (Jesus) did not teach circumcision, He had no need to, it was part of the “Law” of Moses, given by God to the Jews. Jesus Himself was 'circumcised', He didn't teach any of the “Law”, it was already established, and He (Jesus) obeyed it, and did it perfectly. What He did teach, was the intent, the meaning of the law, not the 'letter' of the law as taught by the Pharisees.
Hope this explained it better.

Blessings.

[NickHassan]

Hi CO,
So Jesus was never asked about the Law?

[942767]

Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 09 2009,10:58)

Hi 942767.   I was trying to explain that in the era that Jesus taught, the Jews were under the 'Law',  and if Jesus message was also to the 'others' of all nations, then they also had to be under the 'law', which they were not.  So I was useing examples as to why the nations could not have been taught by Jesus, and may have not made it clear about His teachings.  He didn't teach the “Law”, they were already “under the Law”.  I may have said He (Jesus) taught the law, but I did not mean to say that.  He taught while “Under the Law”.   I had given you the scriptures in my answer in the top of this page.  Jesus was a Jew, like all Jews He was under the “Law”.  He “fulfilled the Law, meaning He kept it perfectly.  The “law” was given by God to Moses, it was God who gave the law, it was not neccesary for Jesus to teach it, it was already known by all Jews.  You say He (Jesus) did not teach circumcision, He had no need to, it was part of the “Law” of Moses, given by God to the Jews.  Jesus Himself was 'circumcised',  He didn't teach any of the “Law”, it was already established, and He (Jesus) obeyed it, and did it perfectly.  What He did teach, was the intent, the meaning of the law, not the 'letter' of the law as taught by the Pharisees.   Hope this explained it better. Blessings.

Hi CO:

Thanks for your explanation of your understanding. I agree with this statement:

Quote

He “fulfilled the Law, meaning He kept it perfectly.

However, the law that he fulfilled perfectly are the “Ten Commandments”, and we also fulfill the law in him. After we have come to God with a repentant heart through him and we receive the Holy Ghost, we are a new creation in Christ Jesus. We are babies in Christ, and we also fulfill the law through obedience of the commandments that came from God through him to humanity not just to the jews. Of course, we make mistakes and without the blood to wash away our sins when we make a mistake, we could not fulfill the law.

As you say, the law came to the nation of Israel through Moses, but the scriptures put it this way:

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Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Jesus ushered in the New Covenant that was stated that God would make with the house of Israel and with house of Judah saying,

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Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The individual ministry of Jesus was prirmarily to the house of Judah, but all of us who are part of the body of Christ are of the house of Israel.

Jesus taught:

Quote

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The water here is the “Word of God”,

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1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

And being born of the Spirit is receiving the Holy Ghost.

No man can enter into the Kingdom of God except he is born again. That includes all of mankind from the beginning of creation until the end of time.

Quote

Rom 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Rom 3:29 [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Rom 3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

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Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

We who are part of body of Christ are circumsized in our heart:

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Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

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Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Marty

[GeneBalthrop]

942767…………..good post

love and peace………………………………….gene

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
You say
“Quote
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The water here is the “Word of God”, “

We follow one who was born of water and the Spirit at the Jordan.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2009,04:45)

Hi 94, You say “Quote   Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. The water here is the “Word of God”, “ We follow one who was born of water and the Spirit at the Jordan.

Hi Nick:

You are baptized in water when you believe the Word of God. Baptism is an action showing that you have repented, and you are united with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection.

We have already gone over this before. All believers should be baptized in water, but being baptized in water is not being born of water.

Quote

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. Jhn 4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? Jhn 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? Jhn 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: Jhn 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
An interesting but obtuse view.
Most people have a different and simpler view of what baptism in water means.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Jesus spoke of Spirit baptism in this way
Jn7
38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

But that is not water baptism as he received it in the Jordan.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2009,14:11)

Hi 94, Jesus spoke of Spirit baptism in this way Jn7 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) But that is not water baptism as he received it in the Jordan.

Hi Nick:

After you have received the Holy Ghost, you can be a witness that Jesus is the Son of God. It is the Word of God that comes out of man's heart after he has received the Holy Ghost and our Father has taught us His Word by His Spirit.

About water baptism Jesus stated:

Quote

Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
So because the sinless Son of God did not need to be baptised in water for forgiveness but did it to fulfill all righteousness you would say no sinful man either needs to submit to water baptism either? Acts 2

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22
16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2009,14:58)

Hi 94, So because the sinless Son of God did not need to be baptised in water for forgiveness but did it to fulfill all righteousness you would say no sinful man either needs to submit to water baptism either?  Acts 2 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 22 16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Hi Nick:

Jesus said about baptism:

Quote

for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.

As I have already stated, I believe that all believers should be baptized in water.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
But in our case it is not just to fulfill all righteousness.
It is a plea for the forgiveness of God[1Peter3]

[Author]

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