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Quote (Not3in1 @ April 28 2008,15:11) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 28 2008,11:05) Mandy Jesus was a spirit Being when He was the Word. He only became physical when He became a Man. No interpretations, it is clear scripture. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and He was with God. And then He became flesh. No trinity, if you know that God is a Family and we too will be God's then you will have no problem understanding it. 1Corinth. 15:28…that God will be all in all. Peace and Love Mrs.
Peace and Love Mrs.
It is not clear scripture, it is a clear interpretation because it is your clear view.Obviously John 1:1 is the most debated passage there is, so no, it's not clear.
My thoughts exactly. Reading that passage in the greek shows just how much the English translators did so with their own doctrine in mind.
Ptr. You and Mandy can deny all you want to, it does not change that Jesus Preexsisted before the world was, that He was there with the Father. I only took John 1:1 as an example, but I guess I should have put the other sciptures with it prove my point.
Col. 1: 15-18
Rev. 3:14
Proverb 6:22-30
read I am not about write them out for you again, you read it.
Jesus was the firstborn of all creation and was as a spirit being with God the Father, until He became a man. He is also the firsborn of the death so that in all He will have preeminence. Preeminence meaning FIRST IN ALL.
Peace and Love Mrs.Greetings gtFoxy…..I appreciate your candor and we are indeed on the same page…Consider RW a voice of warning….As I see it warnings can from the spirit realm,also from men,and just as the warning on a box of cigarettes….we may or may not take it to heart…non the less it is sill notification.. to be advised…
Quote (seek and you will find @ April 28 2008,22:26) Ptr. You and Mandy can deny all you want to, it does not change that Jesus Preexsisted before the world was, that He was there with the Father. I only took John 1:1 as an example, but I guess I should have put the other sciptures with it prove my point.
Col. 1: 15-18
Rev. 3:14
Proverb 6:22-30
read I am not about write them out for you again, you read it.I have read them, and not only in the English translations where they have been translated to fit a certain doctrine.
Col. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
The words tranlsated here as creature are actually the greek words for “all creation”. What is God primary creatiion? He is creating a family. Christ was the firstborn from the father, and firstborn from the grave. This does not say he eternally existed.
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
This is a prime example of an agenda in translation. In this verse there are two seperate greek words translated as “by” in the English, the first instance being “en” and the second being “dia”. These words have many meanings an are translated differently eslewhere inscripture, ncluding “because of”.
REVELATION 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God (Elohim);
At least this verse translates the word for creation correctly. You seem to agree that God is creating a family, and that family is Elohim, now read that verse again. Jesus was the begining of the creation of the family of God, Elohim, being the first born Son of and into Elohim.
If you want to know who did the creating, and since you have already acknowledged Yahweh was the Father, read Genesis….
GENESIS 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD (Yahweh) God made the earth and the heavens,
GENESIS 2:7 And the LORD (Yahweh) God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The English translation of many scriptures has been done to fit an already decided doctrine, and all those verses have either been twisted slightly or a simply read with idea already in mind, but it is impossible to twist this passage….
ISAIAH 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.God the Father (Yahweh) says it as plain as day, 4 times in two verses. I'm sorry, but if anybody is denying something, it would seem that it is you.
God bless.
Quote (theodorej @ April 24 2008,14:29) Greetings Lineon…..Hope all is well with you today…
Thanks for asking Theodorej!
I am OK
It is just that my heart is paining
And my mind is craving
For the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.You might be thinking
'He does not know what he is aking for'
You are rite there is going to be chaos on this earth
O but I still cannot help thinking of His return.Last four days have been a little busy
Thanks again for asking.
How are you?
And I do hope you have a great week.Lineon
Quote (Ptr745 @ April 29 2008,01:15) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 28 2008,22:26) Ptr. You and Mandy can deny all you want to, it does not change that Jesus Preexsisted before the world was, that He was there with the Father. I only took John 1:1 as an example, but I guess I should have put the other sciptures with it prove my point.
Col. 1: 15-18
Rev. 3:14
Proverb 6:22-30
read I am not about write them out for you again, you read it.I have read them, and not only in the English translations where they have been translated to fit a certain doctrine.
Col. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
The words tranlsated here as creature are actually the greek words for “all creation”. What is God primary creatiion? He is creating a family. Christ was the firstborn from the father, and firstborn from the grave. This does not say he eternally existed.
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
This is a prime example of an agenda in translation. In this verse there are two seperate greek words translated as “by” in the English, the first instance being “en” and the second being “dia”. These words have many meanings an are translated differently eslewhere inscripture, ncluding “because of”.
REVELATION 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God (Elohim);
At least this verse translates the word for creation correctly. You seem to agree that God is creating a family, and that family is Elohim, now read that verse again. Jesus was the begining of the creation of the family of God, Elohim, being the first born Son of and into Elohim.
If you want to know who did the creating, and since you have already acknowledged Yahweh was the Father, read Genesis….
GENESIS 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD (Yahweh) God made the earth and the heavens,
GENESIS 2:7 And the LORD (Yahweh) God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The English translation of many scriptures has been done to fit an already decided doctrine, and all those verses have either been twisted slightly or a simply read with idea already in mind, but it is impossible to twist this passage….
ISAIAH 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.God the Father (Yahweh) says it as plain as day, 4 times in two verses. I'm sorry, but if anybody is denying something, it would seem that it is you.
God bless.
Since I have come to the understanding that Jesus did exsist before the world was, I have had people like you trying to take sciptures apart to deny what is so clear to me. I did the same thing like you are doing for a long time, and when one of the J.W. told me about this I felt that He was nuts. But God did not leave me in that state of mind, as you can see. Keep that up and you will end up, like Mandy who does not know if She has faith anymore. She said many times to me, She is loosing faith. You will heading in the same diretion if you take scipture apart like that and read something else into then what it says.
Again Jesus was created before the world was, that is what it says. Amen.
This is the last time I am going to respond to you, because it is sensless to continue in unbelieve.
Peace and Love Mrs.My faith is just fine, it's actually grown since having this fact pointed out to me. As for reading things into scripture, you are doing the exact thing you are accusing me of. We are told to search the scriptures, not just take our doctrine from a translatior who has already decided on his own doctrine before doing the translating, but hey, we all have free choice I guess.
Hi everyone!
Wow it is the end of April and no major event or disaster has taken place in the USA.
The clock is ticking down on Mr Weinland.
Quote (seek and you will find @ April 29 2008,04:37) Keep that up and you will end up, like Mandy who does not know if She has faith anymore. She said many times to me, She is loosing faith. You will heading in the same diretion if you take scipture apart like that and read something else into then what it says. 
Not very nice, Irene. I've noticed that you do not play well with other's who believe differently than you. Remember that you have your opinion (and that of your husbands). And you are convinced in your own mind, but that does not mean you are 100% correct. Give other's the benefit of the doubt. At least be humble enough to recognize that others come into understanding at different speeds.
Warning others to be careful not to turn out like me is not very encouraging or loving. I could also give you a tit-for-tat and warn others not to become as judgemental as you! But I won't do that.
Sorry Mandy that you felt insulted, but I do feel very positive about this subject. Especially since I denied that too for a long time.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (seek and you will find @ April 29 2008,17:42) Sorry Mandy that you felt insulted, but I do feel very positive about this subject. Especially since I denied that too for a long time.
Peace and Love Irene
Hello Mrs,Could you do me a favor and go to the pre-existence thread and answer this question for me.
What purpose did it serve Yah, making Yeshua the 'Word' before he became flesh and blood?
It does seem quite silly to me that Yah would give His word to Yeshua to then have Yeshua give it to the angels to then have the angels give it to the prophets and then the prophets to the people. Why was it necessary to make Yeshua the word and then have him to be born a baby to have to then be given the word, later in his life? As well, it is symbolic to say that Yeshua was the 'word', we know that he really could not be the literal word of Yah, that does not make any logical sense. We know that Yeshua is called the word of Yah because Yah gave him His words to speak. As well, think about this, if the 'word' was a pre-existent Yeshua that became flesh, then why would the 'word' still need to be given the 'word'?
As well, without using the New Testament could you show me proof that Yehsua is the word in the Old, because the Old seems to make it quite clear that not only did the Son not exist yet, but we are also told that the firstborn did not exist yet. The Old seems to be quite clear as well that Yah Himself created the heavens and the earth.
In my opinion you are following a doctrine that does not apply the Old Testament truths to the New, but rather takes the New, forms a doctrine and distorts both the Old and New in order to make it fit.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 28 2008,22:46) Hi everyone! Wow it is the end of April and no major event or disaster has taken place in the USA.
The clock is ticking down on Mr Weinland.
Hi WJ,I am not a follower of Weinland, but I have listened to a couple of his sabbath sermons out of curiosity. To be honest his sermons kind of drag on and on. I feel that what he took 3 hours to say in his sermon on the 19th he could of said in about a half an hour. In this sermon he did not say that any destruction would come in April. He has said 45 to 90 days from the 17th something will happen. So the wait continues!
Jodi! Rather for me to explain, I thought I would put my Husbands article down. Please take time and read it all. Especially the part in Proverbs 8:22-30. Love Irene
WHO IS JESUS?
Jesus had asked his disciples this question once.
Matt. 16:13 “ When Jesus came into the coast of Caesare’a Philip’pi, he asked his disciples, saying, whom do men say that I the son of man am?”
v. 15 “He saith unto them, but whom say ye that I am?”
v. 16 “And Simon Peter answered and said, thou art the Christ, the son of the living God.”
v. 17 “And Jesus answered and said unto him, blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jo’na: for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”
This last verse tells us more than just the fact that God revealed to Peter who Jesus was, it lets us know where understanding of heavenly things come from, God. It should teach us, that with out God’s Holy Spirit we would not understand his word, the Bible, except the historical data contained in it. Hear is what Paul says.
1 Cor. 2:9 “But as it is written, eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.”
v. 10 “But God has revealed them unto us (believers) by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.”
v. 11 “For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man but the Spirit of God.”
v. 12 “Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.”
Have you ever ask yourself, why are there so many denominations? Should not all ministers teach the same? They all teach from the same bible, do they not? They are all taught by the same Holy Spirit, are they not?
1 Cor. 1:10 “Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment (teaching).”
Have you ever ask yourself, why do we call the Father, Father? And why do we call Jesus his son? Have you ever checked the definition for Father and Son in you dictionary? I have.
Father: He who gives life to the son.
Son: He who receives life from the Father.
One other observation, shouldn’t it be obvious to assume that the father is older than the son? Why is Jesus called the firstborn? This one should be easy, if you have children, you have a firstborn, boy or girl doesn’t matter. Jesus did not become his Father’s son when he was born of Mary; because that was not the moment he received life.
John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
Why is this verse so confusing to so many people? The Apostle John is not the only one that referred to the Son of God as the “Word” of the O.T., “Logos” in Greek.
Hear are Jesus own words.
Rev. 19:13 “And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called the Word of God.”
John knew that Jesus was the “Spokesman” for God, the “Word”, because of what he had told them.
John 5:37 “And the Father himself, which has sent me, hath born witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.”
Jesus was the Word, the Spokesperson for the Father, hear on earth. For anyone to think that the “Word” was just a thought in the father’s mind, and became the “Word” when he spoke it, is just plain ridiculous. It would than have to be understood as though God spoke his thought into Mary, and it became his son. That would also mean that, when the son had finished his work hear on earth, he was asking the Father to become a thought again in the Father’s mind, right?
John 17:4 “I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.”
v. 5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
Does it not make you wonder where our scholars and theologians get these glorious ideas? Did you notice how verse 5 ended? Before the world was. Jesus is telling us that he existed long before the world was, long before he became one of us, or have you forgotten?
Col. 1:16 “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or power: all things were created by him, and for him.”
Also, how can we ignore the fact that God sent his son that he gave his son?
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son…”
v. 17 “For God sent not his Son onto the world…”
You cannot give; you cannot send, what you don’t have. Pay close attention to the next two verses.
Luke 8:27 “And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils a long time, and ware no cloth, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.”
v. 28 “When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, what have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.”
These were demons, they recognized Jesus as the Son of God, they had known him from the time of creation. They were not created demons, they were angels until they sided with Lucifer and rebelled against God. They had shouted for joy when the Son created the earth.
Job 38:4 “Where wast thou when I laid the foundation of the earth?…”
v. 7 “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.”
And then there are those that go to the other extreme and say, Jesus had no beginning, he always existed with the Father as a coequal. Read the next three scriptures carefully.
Col. 1:15 “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.”
Col. 3:10 “And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image (Jesus) of him (the Father) that created him.”
Rev. 3:14 “…These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.”
Every parent knows what a firstborn is. Does anyone not know what an image
is? An image is something you make after something or some one, it is a replica, could be
a statue or painting. Who is the one that created him? Would you agree it is the Creator? Why would Jesus say himself, he is the beginning of God’s creation? Do we think he was lying? So, after reading all these scriptures, what is keeping us from believing the truth, tradition maybe?
Jesus was made in the image of the Father, exactly what is this image? Spirit in nature. Adam was created in the image of God.
Gen. 1:26 “And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness…”
But Adam was created flesh not spirit, a different nature; so what image was Adam created in? What is it that the Father, the Son and man have in common? A mind, Paul calls it a spirit.
1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him…”
God is a thinker, a planer, a builder and creator, and so are we, God made us that way, but most importantly, he gave us a mind to communicate with him. What animal can do that?
Jesus was not only the first to receive life, but he was also the first to live again after death.
Col. 1:18 “And he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”
I believe, anyone that reads Col. 1:15 and 18, and does not believe what it says, it’s not because it is to complicate, it is a simple case of rejecting truth. Preeminence is to be t
he first in everything. You can read about the beginning of Gods creation, his Son, in the book of Proverbs; it is easiest understood when you read it in the JAMES MOFFAT translation.
Prov. 8:22 “ The Eternal formed me first of his creation, first of all his works in days of old;”
v. 23 “ I was fashioned in the earliest ages, from the very first, when earth began;”
v. 24 “ I was born when there were no abysses, when there were no fountains full of water;”
v. 25 “ ere he sunk the bases of the mountains, ere the hills existed, I was born,”
v. 26 “ when earth and fields were not created, nor the very first clods of the World.”
v. 27 “ When he set the heaven up, I was there, when he drew the Vault o’er the abyss,”
v. 28 “ when he made the clouds firm overhead, when he fixed the fountains of the deep.”
v. 29 “ when he set the boundaries of the sea, when he laid foundations for the earth;”
v. 30 “ I was with him then, his foster child, I was his delight day after day, playing in His presence constantly.”
Anyone who claims that these verses refer to wisdom obviously has none of his own. Read what Paul is teaching the saints.
Acts 13:33 “God has fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second Psalms, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.”
You just read the account of the first time God raised up his Son, Prov. 8:23-30. The second time was from the dead. You have to be blind if you can’t see who is being talked about hear. That is exactly why we read in,
John 1:1 “ In the beginning was the Word… (Jesus was the Word).”
When we read in,
Gen. 1:1 “ In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth…”
We have no problem understanding that the earth or the universe for that matter did not always existed, that they had a beginning; why then do we give “ beginning“ a different meaning when it comes to the Son of God, Jesus Christ? Do we think we dishonor Jesus by believing the truth? Or do we think we honor Jesus more by raising him to the same level of his Father? The Father has already raised the son to the highest position; if we try to do more we dishonor the Father.
Someone called Jesus good once.
Luke 18:18 “And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
Jesus rebuked him by saying,
v. 19 “And Jesus said unto him, why callest thou me good? None is good, save one, that is, God.”
If Jesus were God he would have never denied being good. That of course does not imply that he wasn’t.
Heb. 10:12 “But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down
on the right hand of God.” (Highest position of honor)
We acknowledge the fact that Jesus came to save us, but we also say that he was both flesh and spirit. Why is that false? It would have made Jesus a mixture of two natures; he would have been a hybrid. God hates perversion of his creation; he destroyed the world with a flood once because of it.
Gen. 6:1 “And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth,
and daughters were born unto them.”
v. 2 “That the sons of God (angels) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and
they took them wives of all which they chose.”
v. 4 “There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of
God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
v. 7 “And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the
earth…”
v. 12 “And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had
corrupted his way upon the earth.”
These are not Satan’s demons that corrupted God’s way, these are angels that looked down from heaven and were tempted by the beauty of the woman. Read what Jude and Peter have to say,
Jude 6 “And the angels which kept not their first estate (heaven), but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”
v. 7 “Even as Sodom and Gomor’rha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving
themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh…”
2 Peter 2:4 “For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.”
These angels that sinned, corrupting God’s creation, apparently committed a greater sin than Satan and his demons. God locked them up in a prison, and would not allow them to roam the world. God was angry; he did not create humans to become half spirit, or spirit beings to become half humans. God created all after their kind,
Gen. 1:21 “And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.”
v. 24 “And God said, let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, and
creeping things, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.”
v. 25 “And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind,
and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.”
After their kind meaning their nature. Paul gives us this explanation;
1 Cor. 15:39 “All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men,
another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.”
v. 40 “There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial; but the glory of the
celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.”
God created all things for His glory. So then, why did God spared Noah and his family?
Gen. 6:9 “These are the generations of Noah; Noah was a just man and perfect in his
generation, and Noah walked with God.”
What does “perfect in his generations” mean? Noah and his family were the only pure humans left; all others flesh had been corrupted. To mix two kinds creates a hybrid and is an insult to God. The bible does tell us that Jesus was not a mixture of two natures,
Heb. 2:16 “For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the
seed of Abraham.(flesh)”
Jesus came to ransom Adam from the grave and all of us. Adam was flesh, and Jesus had to be of the same nature as the one he was coming to redeem. And only someone that was not affected by Adam’s sin could accomplish this. Adam’s sin made him unclean,
Job 14:4 “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?”
Rom. 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and so death passed
upon all men, for that all have sinned.”
Rom. 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord,”
Jesus said he came to ransom many.
Matt. 20:28 “Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.”
What is a ransom? During wartime prisoners of war were ransomed for other prisoners of war, it was an exchange. Jesus came to trade places with Adam. Jesus took Adams sin, and placed it on himself, freeing Adam from the grave, and taking his place in the grave. At his resurrection, God gave Jesus back his true nature, spirit, the flesh body of Christ remained in the grave, and so the penalty for sin was paid. God of course disposed of the body for obvious reasons. People have worshiped religious objects for centuries. Crosses with bone fragments of saints are especially sought after. Many Christians consider the shroud of Turin the most holy object, worthy of worship. Can you imagine how people would have treaded the body of Christ, had God left him in the tomb?
We are all sinners and d
eserve death but for now we die for Adam’s sin; or how would you explain the death of infants and little children that know no sin. If we were to die for our sins now, then these little ones should live at least until they have committed a sin. Our only hope was in Jesus Christ who was not of our nature and not effected by the curse of death. God changed his spirit body into a human body; this change did not affect his mind, for he knew who he was, where he came from and why he had come. Jesus knew about his mission from creation,
Rev. 13:8 “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth.”
Although tempted in all things he remained sinless, it was his body that took on our sins, and he became sin for us. In his spirit, his mind, in his heart, he remained without sin.
2 Cor. 5:21 “For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be
made the righteousness of God in him.”
Failure was not an option; it would have meant the end of his existence as well as all of ours. Jesus experienced all the things we do in our life, real thirst, real hunger, real pain and death.
Heb. 2:18 “For that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them
that are tempted.”
Heb. 4:15 “For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of
our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”
Jesus endured it all because his mind was on the eternal not on the temporal.
Heb. 12:2 “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that
was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the
right hand of the throne of God.”
Jesus died and was placed in a tomb, and right hear is were ministers run into a contradiction by what they teach. They say that Jesus was not really dead, that instead he went to “hell”, and preached to the spirits, using this scripture.
1 Pet. 3:19 “By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.”
First of all, to say that Jesus went to “hell” is an assumption; the scripture does not say that. Second, to say that these were the souls of deceased sinners, is an assumption too, the scripture does not say that either. Third, to say that you are alive after you die, claiming you have an immortal soul is in total opposition to the word of God. Finally, assuming Jesus went to hell, what prevented him from being tormented by the flames? So, who are these spirits, and what is there prison? It seems that the scripture that gives us the answer has been completely overlooked, or ignored.
v. 20 “Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing…”
These spirits are spirit beings, angels, which were disobedient in that they married woman, and produced hybrids. They are the once responsible for the flood, which I referred to a few pages back. Read Jude 6 and 7 and 2 Pet. 2:4 again. It was during the construction of the ark, in the days of Noah, that these spirits, angels, were preached to, told what would await them in the day of final judgment, but they are not being tormented by flames now.
Jesus died; trusting the Father he would raise him up, after three days and three nights, God did raise him up. Jesus was given back his true nature, spirit. His flesh body had taken on all of our sins, was no longer needed and God disposed of it. And why should that have surprised any one, that his body was gone? God did tell us ahead of time, he would not allow his body to decay.
Ps. 16:10 “For thou wilt not leave my soul (body) in hell (grave); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption (decay).”
And Paul does explain,
2 Cor. 5:16 “Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.”
Jesus no longer looked the same, which also explains why all his friends did not recognize him by sight.
John 20:15 “Jesus said unto her (Mary Magdalene), Woman, why weepest thou? Whom
seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have born him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.”
John 21:4 “But when the morning now was come, Jesus stood on the shore; but the
disciples knew not that it was Jesus.”
Luke 24:15 “And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned,
Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.”
v. 16 “But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.”
Thomas became a believer because Jesus showed him the wounds, not because he recognized him, John 20:26-29. Jesus could not appear in the same likeness as before, that body had taken on all of our sins, it was the exchange for Adam, it had to remain dead, because that is the penalty for sin, death, Rom. 6:23. Jesus in his spirit body does not look anything like his flesh body that is why all paintings and portraits of him are wrong; including the Shroud of Turin. Had God allowed an image of his son to appear on that shroud, He would have violated his own second commandment.
Forty days after his resurrection Jesus ascended to heaven. God accepted his sacrifice for all of us, and crowned him with glory, a glorious and divine spirit body and immortality.
John 5:26 “For as the Father has life in himself (immortality); so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself (immortality).”
And raised him to the highest position of honor.
Eph. 1:20 “Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places.”
This was the joy for which he endured the shame and the cross, Heb. 12:2. There is so much the bible wants to tell us, if we were only willing to listen. For instant, how could the Father have given him immortality, if he had it before? How could he have been raised to the highest position of honor, if he had occupied it before? Or, how can he inherit all things, which he already owns?
Heb. 1:2 “Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son, whom he has appointed heir of all things…”
How could Jesus have been made so much better than the angels?
Heb. 1:4 “Being made so much better than the angels.”
If Jesus was God, could he have been made any more perfect?
Heb. 2:10 “…to make the captain of their salvation perfect through suffering.”
Had Jesus been God, and immortal, he simply could not have died for us, that is what immortality means, death is impossible.
The fact that Jesus rose from the dead is our hope, because he has the keys to unlock the doors to our graves,
Rev. 1:18 “I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell (grave) and of death.”
1 Cor. 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”
v. 23 “But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.”
Referring to the first resurrection. His coming want be anything like what we
have been told. There want be any visible signs or sounds, which will make us look up. We will not see the dead raised. Jesus himself told us that his coming would be like a thief, and so did Paul.
Rev. 16:15 “Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, last he walk naked, and they see his shame.”
1 Thes. 5:2 “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so kometh as a thief in the night.”
The comparison with a thief is to make a point; his coming will not be noticed.
John 5:28 “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the
graves shall hear his voice.”
v. 29 “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurre
ction; and they
that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
For many people that have done great evil to others, it may very well be a resurrection of damnation. All will be resurrected with the same thinking, the same attitudes as when they died.
Ezek. 16:53 “When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them.”
v. 54 “That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them.”
v. 55 “When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.”
Ezekiel is saying, not only will Israel and Judah be restored, resurrected, but Sodom and Samaria, meaning all evil nations will be restored to their former estate as well. All will awake from their grave, thinking they have only been sleeping a few hours.
All will be required to repent and to ask for forgiveness, there may be those that have done such evil deeds that they can’t or wont repent, nor ask for forgiveness; their fait is sealed. The resurrection of the dead will occur during the thousand-year reign of Christ, the Millennium. God designed this period so that all mankind would have the opportunity to learn the truth and repent. It will be the time when Christ will judge the world. But judgment does not come before a trial. We read in,
1 Peter 4:17 “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and
if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God.”
Judgment means teaching, testing, and trials, proving you are worthy to receive the gift of God, eternal life. The house of God is his Church, the body of Christ, the Saints. Judgment was on them first because they would reign with Christ. For all others their time of judgment will be during the millennium. The end of them that obey not the gospel during the millennium is also mentioned in,
Acts 3:23 “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet,
shall be destroyed from among his people.”
Which of course is the second death, eternal death, from which there is no resurrection. This raises a question; who has your allegiance, your Church, your Minister or God? Remember,
Is. 8:20 “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is
because there is no light (understanding) in them.”
Also keep in mind what Paul says in,
1 Thes. 5:21 “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”
It is more than good advice!Mrs.,
If you have not read my last few posts on fallen angels, I would appreciate it if you and your husband would check it out and get back to me.
Thanks and Peace to you, Jodi
I've been chatting with my sister about this Weinland guy and the end of the world predictions. So, I've kinda been freaked out a little thinking about what could happen (I know better, but still). So do you know what just happened two minutes ago? We live fairly close to a huge military base (about 1.5 hours drive away), and sometimes when they are testing aircraft or whatever they are doing, we can hear them and sometimes see the military heli's and belly planes.
Just a minute ago (and it's 10 p.m.) I started to hear a rumble and then a loud (LOUD) engine sound, so I ran outside to the patio and opened the doors just in time to feel the floor shaking and a gigantic jet or whatever fly slowly overhead. I could smell jet fuel, it was that low. The trees were rustled. My ears are ringing. I thought the big, black “thing” was going to crash….it had that whistle/whinning sound like when planes go down.
But my first repsonse was the world was coming to an end! Ha! It was that loud, I swear. I wonder what that thing was? Airplanes have always facinated me. I remember when I saw my first Stealth. My husband called out to me and pointed up in the sky. When I saw it I didn't know what to think. I was scared and then he told me what it was. It was freaky, very freaky. But cool.
I've noticed you guys have a few earth quake swarms that are getting bigger, and scientists seem to theink they are precursors to a bigger events. Pretty freaky how things have been happening in greater number since the 17th, and Ron said things would gradually get worse for seven weeks after this point. Going to be an interesting time in the next 5 weeks or so, and even worse after that by the sounds of things.
Mandy and 745 I don't think you shouldn't get to excited about what you seen and heard. We always had earthquakes for some time now. We are to have the big one coming, but we that are under Christ's Protection will be in safety. Going through the bombing in World War 2 kind of makes me relaxed and God took care of us then, and also have faith that He will do it again. If it does happen just realize that it will go so fast, you will stand one second and the next your dead. No more pain.
Ja, Ja I am really encouraging , I know.
But that is reality, wouldn't you say?
Peace and Love Irene
Jodi! We read your Posts and we do have some article on that subject avaiable, but it has to many pages to paste it here, my Husband said that you should go to this website where much is explained in details. Go to: htt://www.mt.net/~watcher/enoch5.html
I hope that will help.
Peace and Love Gerog and IreneQuote (seek and you will find @ May 01 2008,10:15) Jodi! We read your Posts and we do have some article on that subject avaiable, but it has to many pages to paste it here, my Husband said that you should go to this website where much is explained in details. Go to: htt://www.mt.net/~watcher/enoch5.html
I hope that will help.
Peace and Love Gerog and Irene
Mrs. Thanks, but those articles don't help in the least bit. I want you to take what I have said and show me how it is wrong.2 Peter 2:10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; 11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. 12 But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
Angels with immortality having the privilege and honor to dwell in Yah’s Holy Habitation and to assist Yah in earthly matters, could not in all truth be jealous of man. The idea of that is pure insanity to me. On the contrary MAN WAS JEALOUS of angels. I believe that is exactly what 2 Peter is telling us. Lets really think about this for a moment. Angels are Yah’s personal messengers on earth, they establish Yah’s authority on earth. Man despised the angels authority, and man told lies about them out of hate because they were acting like creatures of instinct not being able to handle submission. When we are told in Titus not to believe in Jewish myths, I am feeling quite certain that the Book of Enoch is indeed one we are to recognize as such.
The doctrine of sinful angels hating mankind out of jealousy and mating with them, distorts the simple truth and lesson of Genesis 6.
Genesis 6:1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. 3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive F9 with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.
What we have here are two groups of descendants the descendants of Seth and the descendants of Cain. Seth’s descendants were the sons of God and Cain’s were the unrighteous. This is not hard to figure out since we know that Cain was cursed and the bible shows one of his descendants becomes a murderer. Upon the time Seth was born the bible says that man began to call upon the Lord. Seth’s descendants included Enoch and Noah, both followers of Yah. Yah tested the sons of God by creating in Cain’s descendants really hot chicks, so hot, the sons of God could not control themselves and married them. These woman turned their evil ways over to the sons of God and those sons became wicked. We see that Yah says in verse 3 that His spirit shall not abide in man for ever. Why does He say this and why is this true? Yah is pointing out how easy it is when man is exposed with a fleshly weakness that he falls for it. In this case it was really hot chicks.
How can we even begin to believe that the book of Enoch is true? Yeshua tells us that angels don’t marry, therefore they could not be the sons here, because these sons get married. Also the giants existed BEFORE and after these marriages took place, thus the giants had nothing to do with the marriages themselves. As well, the following scriptures refer to the wicked as HUMAN BEINGS, not as half breeds of angels and mankind.
Yah goes on to say that He is sorry that he made mankind, and yet we don't see anything about Him being sorry He made the angels. I think it is also a crucial point that in 6:5 it says why man is evil, and it has nothing to do with breeding with sinful angels, but with the imagination and heart within man.
Let me add to the absurdity once again of angels breeding with human beings. An extremely lousy assumption is being made that angels have the ability to defy the LAWS of Yah's creation and take a spirit being and a human being and make some sort of child.
This is pure fantasy, it is a disgusting doctrine that makes my blood boil, it reeks of man's denial of his OWN WRONG doing. People who spew this doctrine from their mouths are clearly as it says 'speaking lies about celestial beings.' They sit in the vomit of their own vanity, where they think the root of man's evil comes from somewhere other then themselves.
Genesis 6:5 The Lord saw how great MAN'S wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of HIS HEART was only EVIL all the time.
I don't mean to offend you Mrs., but as you can see this doctrine REALLY bothers me. The bible tells us time and time again the root of our evil is within us, it is in our flesh. Therefore satan, which means adversary, must be referring to men. Demon spirits must as well be referring to the evil spirits within man. Yeshua makes this very clear in Matthew. I am going make another post later on today in the fallen angel thread so please look for it and address me with your understanding that relates specifically to what I say.
Peace to you, Jodi
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