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Alright, then explain the context of this verse and how it supposedly doesn’t mean what it says.
Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.
Now is your chance to put this to rest.David, your making a fool of yourself here, do you even know what your talking about?
Forget the jibberish talk and provide one verse that supports the trinity, just one…… That’s all….
You single this verse out because on it’s own you can make it more easily fit with your Arian teaching, but if you continued in the context it’s written in you’d find two verses down, “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” – which of course directly relates to John 1:1…and shows that Jesus’ mission on earth was to glorify the Father – not Himself (He left His position in glory, His equality with God, and humbled Himself in becoming man…God became flesh and dwelt among us)…these revelations of Scripture you deny because they don’t fit with your own logical concepts…hence you quote verses out of context to try and make your teaching sound Scriptural…
Forgive me if I’m a little slow here but explain to me exactly how those verses support the doctrine of the trinity?
Nothing you say here teaches a Trinity. Further, tell me exactly what it was that Arius taught that I am teaching. I bet you cannot answer this.
Further, Jesus was one with God correct. Jesus wants us to be one with God, that too is correct. How is this a Trinity and how are we too God if we are one with him?
There are so many holes in your argument, I hardly know where to begin.
Earlier when I said that you were out of your depth, I was correct. But because you continue to teach the Trinity at the expense of scripture and Jesus own words, then I agree that Paul is right. You indeed look foolish because you are unable to provide adequate answers as to what you believe and you cannot reconcile Jesus own words, not to mention Paul’s and Peter’s too. It is obvious to anyone reasonable person that you must struggle with many contradictions, yet you ignore these and continue to preach the Babylonian gospel which Heaven does not recognise as its own.
You are digging yourself further into a hole and it is plain to see.Arianism is the theological teaching attributed to Arius (ca. AD 250–336), a Christian presbyter in Alexandria, Egypt, concerning the relationship of God the Father to the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Arius asserted that the Son of God was a subordinate entity to God the Father..
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The Arian concept of Christ is that the Son of God did not always exist, but was created by—and is therefore distinct from—God the Father. This belief is grounded in the Gospel of John passage “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. John 14:28
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Arianism is defined as those teachings attributed to Arius which are in opposition to the traditional Trinitarian Christological doctrine… “Arianism” is also often used to refer to other nontrinitarian theological systems of the 4th century, which regarded Jesus Christ—the Son of God, the Logos—as either a created being (as in Arianism proper and Anomoeanism), or as neither uncreated nor created in the sense other beings are created (as in Semi-Arianism)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArianismYou suggest that maybe I am out of my depth in this debate…and somehow no match for your great intelligence – yet such vain boasting only reminds me of that Biblical giant, defeated by one little stone…!
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No matter how big your logical delusion is, it is no match against the truth…!!!Is what I share really so hard to understand..? or is it that, like those hardhearted Pharisees, you are of a different spirit..???
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Jesus said to them, “Why don’t you understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot accept My teaching..yet because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.” – John 8:43-45
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You say – ‘If you start with your mind being convinced of a doctrine, then no matter what the evidence against it, you will find a way to point it to your doctrine.’
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In this, your own words condemn you – you have fallen into the same trap you accuse others of…and become so indoctrinated with your own belief that you can no longer recognize the truth…
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“There is much more we would like to say about this, but it is difficult to explain, especially since you are spiritually dull and don’t seem to listen.” – Hebrews 5:11Dave, I’ve been reading your comments over the last few days and really I think your simply and deliberately creating trouble.
Many on this site have given you links to read which your obviously not willing to read, some have pointed out mistakes in your understanding which again you seem unwilling to read. When asked to support what you believe in from the Bible, you won’t or possible can’t…… Everyone else seems to be able to support their belief from the Bible. You have supplied some verses which, lets face it, don’t support a trinity.
You quote – Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.
Have you actually read this? come on surely your not that stupid…….If nothing else, just read Ezekiel 8.
Rather than be willingly ignorant and arrogant decide if your going to accept the mark of the beast as found in Revelation or the mark of God as found in the Torah. From what I’m reading you’ve unknowingly accepting the mark of the beast.
Remember, Revelation says the world will be deceived, do you ever wonder how the world will be deceived? How satan will actually accomplish that???? The trinity seems to accomplish that goal….
DavidL. Jesus said:
“this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.
I am afraid DavidL, you are on the losing end of this. No matter how much you try to make it feasible, these simple words of Jesus prove you wrong. You are only demonstrating to us how you do not believe Jesus own words. Nothing more, nothing less.
But I would encourage you to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Lord and he is the Christ. As the son of God, he served God and spoke only that which God spoke. He said that his sheep would hear his voice. Why then deliberately ignore his voice?
Eternal life is to know the Father and the one whom he has sent.
Amen. Nothing can change this. You either accept it or reject it. I accept it and you oppose me for it. So I take it that you reject it.Waiting for an answer here DavidL.
Please provide the answer as you obviously have one judging by the rebukes and opposition to myself and others.Dave, I have watched your posts over the last couple of days and really I think your simple causing trouble and further dialog with you is useless. Some may comment to obtain a greater understanding weather they agree or not at least they are considering what is being said, you on the other hand, well….?
Many have given you links to read but you have obviously not read then. Some have quoted you stuff and again you’ve obviously not read them. You don’t appear to be able to support your beliefs from the Bible when asked, so really, what are you doing here besides causing trouble.
with reference to one of your quotes – Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.
have you actually read this yourself? Surely your not that stupid….Read Ezekiel 8… if nothing else
I guess you need to decide if your going to accept the mark of God as found in the Torah,or the mark of the beast as found in Revelation. It is sounding as if you may have already, unknowingly accepted the mark of the beast…? Either way stop being arrogant, consider what others have to say before commenting. Its obvious you have not considered all possibilities or even if what you are saying is Biblically supported?
Revelation tells us the world will be deceived, have you considered how satan will deceive the world? The trinity seems to achieve that deception.
The trinity is a man made doctrine not found, taught or supported by the Bible.
if you would have read the scriptures with a empty mind and no foreknowledge in religion or otherwise ,you would never came out with the trinity by reading the scriptures and believe them , the way they have been written,
so if it was an revelation to you ;it could not come from the spirit of truth in scriptures but some thing else out side of it ,this is certain
Brisbane, Australia and I can safely say there is more kiwis in Brisbane than NZ. originally from pauanui on the Coramandal Coast but been in Australia since 1979.
Okay, I’ve been there a few times. I liked Springfield, and Mount Tamborine. And the Coromandel is awesome. Went there last year.
I AM UNDER THE impression that some people here believe that wen we start to read the scriptures we first read ARIANISM ,HOW WRONG CAN THEY BE ;the fact that we came to the same conclusions without knowing this guy is already a sign of what you understand without changing anything in the scriptures ,and leave it as the truth of God should be
How true that is. I have never read anything from Arius because his writings were burned.
But people like to call us Arians because labelling someone is an easy way to judge them. But if they were decent, they would listen and if we showed them this in scripture, then they should be open to changing.
But that is the power of tradition. It nullifies the power of God, and dictates to the person what they should do or believe.
Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.🙂
I quite admire your faith DavidL and your persistence even though you are being ganged up on and, even, ridiculed to a point. Don’t worry I don’t intend on doing that. Unfortunately, you are now in the same position, however, that many of those writing against you have been in all our lives.
This is a question of faith. In your interpretation you see a trinity… in ours we do not. In my case I read the word without any church background at all. When I became older I was horrified to see what 95% of Christians profess; that is, Christ is God equal with the Father, in simple terms. That wasn’t what I read and it didn’t say that. My influence was God’s word, not men’s theology that has been passed down generation to generation.
Now, I can understand that in your mind you may say, “God would not let us be led astray like this,” and/or, “The church fathers knew because they were given revelation of this truth by God.” This is a faith, and how you read your bible is influenced by that faith. You hope you are correct. You follow this faith because many others do as well, giving you confidence that you are right. There are over 2 billion christians in the world and 1.2 billion of those are catholic. Another half billion are protestant. Count in the orthodox churches and you can see most of the christian world follow your idea of who God is. I would guess the chances that you are right are good… if we actually dealt with chance. Who shows more faith then? the man who follows the majority and hopes a revelation of secrets was true? Or the man who reads the book God intended us to have, that we may protect ourselves from false teachers; and who then goes against what the world is telling them to believe because the word did not coincide with the world’s beliefs? What faith would be easier to have? Ours… or yours? The simple way is often the wrong way, and as it is written, “narrow is the gate of salvation and few shall enter.” If few enter and many are trinitarian… how masterful of a man, then, must you be to find Christ and salvation? And what do you, yourself, possess that makes you better than your brothers that you should find salvation and they not? I would think that is a scary thought.
I have not used scripture to defend (or much), nor do I intend to change your mind as I am sure I do not possess the power to do so, though I pray God might. I only wish to show that a battle of scripture will accomplish nothing here. Scripture will be used in whatever way the one wielding it will use it. God knows who is right in their ways. My faith is that you are wrong. My faith is that God’s bible was given to us that we should not be deceived by falsities as the trinity. I hope, someday, you will take this chance with us; face the persecution, the loneliness, and the beauty of true perseverance against all odds for the glory of Christ. And you shall see how beautiful it is to succeed in Christ in a faith that is true.
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