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Quote (Ed J @ June 08 2013,19:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 08 2013,14:44) Quote (Ed J @ June 07 2013,18:22) Hi BD, The bible says Moses was “slow of speech” NOT 'of no speech',
So your evidence is not only contradictory, but flimsy as well.
People from New Jersey can give an hour speech in 40 min.
So it may have taken Moses a little longer than an hour.Ed
So you assert that moses was not healed or cured from his speech impediment, correct?
Hi BD,No, I'm suggesting that I don't know,
AND there is no evidence to suggest he was.
At least none that I've seen; why, do you have any?Ed
You keep seeming to not see thevery clear fact that Moses delivered all the major speeches and Aaron only helped him.Through all these speeches there were no single other mention of Moses having a speaking problem.
The Quran tells why and the Bible proves the case by revealing the many speeches.
Just like the Calf you don't know why they chose to make a golden calf, do you?
Quote (carmel @ June 08 2013,10:09) I accept what the Quran states regarding Moses asked God TO GIVE HIM ARON!
Exodus 4
10 Moses said to the Lord, “Pardon your servant, Lord. I have never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your servant. I am slow of speech and tongue.”11 The Lord said to him, “Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the Lord?
12 Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say.”
13 But Moses said, “Pardon your servant, Lord. Please send someone else.”
14 Then the Lord’s anger burned against Moses and he said, “What about your brother, Aaron the Levite? I know he can speak well. He is already on his way to meet you, and he will be glad to see you.
15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
16 He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you were God to him.
I believe the scriptural account of how it happened. Y'all can believe what you'd prefer.
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 08 2013,13:39) Through all these speeches there were no single other mention of Moses having a speaking problem.
Hi Asana,We were already told that Moses had a speech impediment. Do you think the writers of scripture should have alluded to that impediment every time Moses said something in scripture? Why?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2013,06:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 08 2013,13:39) Through all these speeches there were no single other mention of Moses having a speaking problem.
Hi Asana,We were already told that Moses had a speech impediment. Do you think the writers of scripture should have alluded to that impediment every time Moses said something in scripture? Why?
Exodus 415 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
Do you believe this or not?
Quote (Ed J @ June 08 2013,19:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 08 2013,14:49) Why did the make a golden calf?
Hi BD,Because they thought something happened to Moses.
Ed
Srah 267 And (remember) when Musa (Moses) said to his people: “Verily, Allah commands you that you slaughter a cow.” They said, “Do you make fun of us?” He said, “I take Allah's Refuge from being among Al-Jahilun (the ignorant or the foolish).”
68 They said, “Call upon your Lord for us that He may make plain to us what it is!” He said, “He says, 'Verily, it is a cow neither too old nor too young, but (it is) between the two conditions', so do what you are commanded.”
69 They said, “Call upon your Lord for us to make plain to us its colour.” He said, “He says, 'It is a yellow cow, bright in its colour, pleasing to the beholders.' ”
70 They said, “Call upon your Lord for us to make plain to us what it is. Verily, to us all cows are alike. And surely, if Allah wills, we will be guided.”
71 He [Musa (Moses)] said, “He says, 'It is a cow neither trained to till the soil nor water the fields, sound, having no other colour except bright yellow.' ” They said, “Now you have brought the truth.” So they slaughtered it though they were near to not doing it.
72 And (remember) when you killed a man and fell into dispute among yourselves as to the crime. But Allah brought forth that which you were hiding.
73 So We said: “Strike him (the dead man) with a piece of it (the cow).” Thus Allah brings the dead to life and shows you His Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) so that you may understand.
74 Then, after that, your hearts were hardened and became as stones or even worse in hardness. And indeed, there are stones out of which rivers gush forth, and indeed, there are of them (stones) which split asunder so that water flows from them, and indeed, there are of them (stones) which fall down for fear of Allah. And Allah is not unaware of what you do.
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 08 2013,13:50) Exodus 4 15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
Do you believe this or not?
Of course I believe it. But tell me where it says God “cured” Moses of his speech impediment.Oops, should have said:
Moses was a reformer of the previous traditions, rituals, laws and beliefs of the slaves that he lead out of Egypt. Idolatry was one of their practices, that's why he added the prohibition against idol making into the previous commandments.
Colter
mikeboll64,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote I believe the scriptural account of how it happened. Y'all can believe what you'd prefer. Mike,
Moses 5 times refused god order, in fact god lost patience!
That god Mike, was not God Almighty!
God Almighty was not in the position to speak directly to humans, Paul made it clear that God spoke only indirectly, and in divers manners!
Paul also asserted that Moses spoke with an angel!
I am convinced that God, through the son's spirit was in Moses, since he was the messiah, and also the identical figure of Jesus! Before birth, in his birth, and throughout his life. Jesus' characteristics were all in Moses, and he was not aware of it!
God through Moses showed god of the world Satan, that he is in command, and the fact that he suggested Aaron it proves that God through Moses achieved his aim.
There's a particular strong reason why Aaron was vital to be with Moses! And also why Moses was slow in his speech!
Why god even wanted to kill Moses, after that hustle to convince him to go to Egypt?
Moses' god's speeches were not consistent and full of lies
Also Moses encountered with the right God as well, but not that particular moment!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2013,07:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 08 2013,13:50) Exodus 4 15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
Do you believe this or not?
Of course I believe it. But tell me where it says God “cured” Moses of his speech impediment.
The Quran states:Surat Taha/20
25 (Moses) said: “O my Lord! expand me my breast;
26 “Ease my task for me;
27 “And remove the impediment from my speech,
28 “So they may understand what I say:
29 “And give me a Minister from my family,
30 “Aaron, my brother;
31 “Add to my strength through him,
32 “And make him share my task:
33 “That we may celebrate Thy praise without stint,
34 “And remember Thee without stint:
35 “For Thou art He that (ever) regardeth us.”
36 (Allah) said: “Granted is thy prayer, O Moses!”
Proof:
Exodus 4
15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
When you have read both books you see everything much more clearly.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2013,07:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 08 2013,13:50) Exodus 4 15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
Do you believe this or not?
Of course I believe it. But tell me where it says God “cured” Moses of his speech impediment.
This is true,God created the deaf and the dumb.
So God created moses that way for his purpose.
So that his brother would join him,and be the priest.
God has planned it all.
Therefore Moses was not healed from his stammering.wakeup.
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 09 2013,11:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2013,07:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 08 2013,13:50) Exodus 4 15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
Do you believe this or not?
Of course I believe it. But tell me where it says God “cured” Moses of his speech impediment.
The Quran states:Surat Taha/20
25 (Moses) said: “O my Lord! expand me my breast;
26 “Ease my task for me;
27 “And remove the impediment from my speech,
28 “So they may understand what I say:
29 “And give me a Minister from my family,
30 “Aaron, my brother;
31 “Add to my strength through him,
32 “And make him share my task:
33 “That we may celebrate Thy praise without stint,
34 “And remember Thee without stint:
35 “For Thou art He that (ever) regardeth us.”
36 (Allah) said: “Granted is thy prayer, O Moses!”
Proof:
Exodus 4
15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
When you have read both books you see everything much more clearly.
Boditharta.God has a certain style of speech.
We can tell by the style and wordings wether it is Gods word or some other.
Gods lingo touches the soul.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ June 09 2013,14:20) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 09 2013,11:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2013,07:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 08 2013,13:50) Exodus 4 15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
Do you believe this or not?
Of course I believe it. But tell me where it says God “cured” Moses of his speech impediment.
The Quran states:Surat Taha/20
25 (Moses) said: “O my Lord! expand me my breast;
26 “Ease my task for me;
27 “And remove the impediment from my speech,
28 “So they may understand what I say:
29 “And give me a Minister from my family,
30 “Aaron, my brother;
31 “Add to my strength through him,
32 “And make him share my task:
33 “That we may celebrate Thy praise without stint,
34 “And remember Thee without stint:
35 “For Thou art He that (ever) regardeth us.”
36 (Allah) said: “Granted is thy prayer, O Moses!”
Proof:
Exodus 4
15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
When you have read both books you see everything much more clearly.
Boditharta.God has a certain style of speech.
We can tell by the style and wordings wether it is Gods word or some other.
Gods lingo touches the soul.wakeup.
I agree that God has a certain style of speech but you will not be able to discern it with a hard heart, it is clear that the Quran is saying that Moses was healed by God and the Bible agrees when it says God said “I will help both of you speak” then it shows clearly that Aaron was not the MAIN speaker, Moses was.You might want to read without prejudice and then come to a conclusion. Did Adam and Eve die the day when they ate the fruit? NO.
But you will say that ” a thousand years is “like” a day to God, so yes they died that same day but the Bible clearly teaches “There was evening and there was morning” that is considered a day and in that day they did not die, the Quran explains.
Sura #2
35 And We said: “O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight, of things therein as wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of the Zalimun (wrong-doers).”
36 Then the Shaitan (Satan) made them slip therefrom (the Paradise), and got them out from that in which they were. We said: “Get you down, all, with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be a dwelling place for you and an enjoyment for a time.”
37 Then Adam received from his Lord Words. And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful.
38 We said: “Get down all of you from this place (the Paradise), then whenever there comes to you Guidance from Me, and whoever follows My Guidance, there shall be no fear on them, nor shall they grieve.
39 But those who disbelieve and belie Our Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) – such are the dwellers of the Fire. They shall abide therein forever.
Now do you believe that it was God who taught mankind how to repent?
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 09 2013,15:40) Quote (Wakeup @ June 09 2013,14:20) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 09 2013,11:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2013,07:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 08 2013,13:50) Exodus 4 15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
Do you believe this or not?
Of course I believe it. But tell me where it says God “cured” Moses of his speech impediment.
The Quran states:Surat Taha/20
25 (Moses) said: “O my Lord! expand me my breast;
26 “Ease my task for me;
27 “And remove the impediment from my speech,
28 “So they may understand what I say:
29 “And give me a Minister from my family,
30 “Aaron, my brother;
31 “Add to my strength through him,
32 “And make him share my task:
33 “That we may celebrate Thy praise without stint,
34 “And remember Thee without stint:
35 “For Thou art He that (ever) regardeth us.”
36 (Allah) said: “Granted is thy prayer, O Moses!”
Proof:
Exodus 4
15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
When you have read both books you see everything much more clearly.
Boditharta.God has a certain style of speech.
We can tell by the style and wordings wether it is Gods word or some other.
Gods lingo touches the soul.wakeup.
I agree that God has a certain style of speech but you will not be able to discern it with a hard heart, it is clear that the Quran is saying that Moses was healed by God and the Bible agrees when it says God said “I will help both of you speak” then it shows clearly that Aaron was not the MAIN speaker, Moses was.You might want to read without prejudice and then come to a conclusion. Did Adam and Eve die the day when they ate the fruit? NO.
But you will say that ” a thousand years is “like” a day to God, so yes they died that same day but the Bible clearly teaches “There was evening and there was morning” that is considered a day and in that day they did not die, the Quran explains.
Sura #2
35 And We said: “O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight, of things therein as wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of the Zalimun (wrong-doers).”
36 Then the Shaitan (Satan) made them slip therefrom (the Paradise), and got them out from that in which they were. We said: “Get you down, all, with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be a dwelling place for you and an enjoyment for a time.”
37 Then Adam received from his Lord Words. And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful.
38 We said: “Get down all of you from this place (the Paradise), then whenever there comes to you Guidance from Me, and whoever follows My Guidance, there shall be no fear on them, nor shall they grieve.
39 But those who disbelieve and belie Our Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) – such are the dwellers of the Fire. They shall abide therein forever.Now do you believe that it was God who taught mankind how to repent?
Boditharta.Do you really believe that God created the earth and man in six thousand years?
And God rested on the seventh thousand year?If so than Adam must have been over a thousand years old when he was *cast out* of the garden.Because God rested on the 7th day=1000yrs. So Adam was cast out after God finished his rest.
The scripture says that adam lived for 800 years, when he beget Enoch,and died at 930 years old. This proves that
the one day, equals a thousand years is *not correct*.Gods word is contained in one book only,not two or more.
One book containing the old and the new.Just two witnesses.
Any other books are just copies.God showed us how to repent;by animal sacrifices,and following his commandments.
The *last sacrifice* was provided by God himself;and that is his only begotten Son. A sacrifice without blemish,pure and clean. Well accepted by God.
The qur'an can not be of the same God that wrote the bible.
It has a different spirit,and it was written about seven hundred years after Christ.The Holy bible focuses on Jerusalem, the name given by God. Not Mecca. The muslems focuses on mecca.
In Jerusalem when the muslems pray;they face towards mecca; and their backsides facing the dome.No; the two are not of the same spirit.
wakeup.
bodhitharta,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote I agree that God has a certain style of speech but you will not be able to discern it with a hard heart, it is clear that the Quran is saying that Moses was healed by God and the Bible agrees when it says God said “I will help both of you speak” then it shows clearly that Aaron was not the MAIN speaker, Moses was. BD, and ALL,
I wish you reflect on both our Bible, and the Quran!
They are simply BOTHsaying God's word, but in a different way!
I agree with what the Quran states THAT GOD HEALED MOSES
BUT I AM SURE THAT THE QURAN IS TELLING THE TRUTH,IN A SPIRITUAL WAY, ALTHOUGH IT IS LITERAL!
PERMIT ME TO ASK A QUESTION TO ALL OF YOU!
WHAT FIGURE MOSES REPRESENTS, SPIRITUALLY ?
A SPIRIT FIGURE, OR A SOUL FIGURE???
KEEP IN MIND THAT HUMANS WERE ONLY CARNAL IN MOSES TIME,THEIR SOULS WERE POSSESSED BY SATAN'S SPIRIT!
ALSO ONLY THE JEWS WERE ADAM'S DESCENDANTS!
NOW MOSES IS A MYSTERY, ALTHOUGH HE WAS BORN FROM A JEWISH MOTHER! SO THE PROBABILITY HE WAS NOT A JEWISH!
NOW READ THIS BIT OF COMMENT FROM A JEWISH RABBI!
The first we hear of Moses is that a man of the tribe of Levi marries a woman of the same tribe. This may the only time that the Torah mention that both parents are of the same tribe. In this to emphasis that despite Moses growing up as an Egyptian he is a Hebrew? They have a son. 1From this it would appear that Moses is a firstborn, but he has an older brother Aaron and an older sister Miriam. Thus Moses appears to be an oldest and a youngest. The Midrash has a different explanation. In Egypt a prophecy was made by Bilaam, the evil prophet of the Book of Numbers that a Hebrew boy would be born who would overthrow the kingdom. Thus the edict to drown all male children, a rather irrational edict since the boys were the workers (as the Talmud notes). The Pentateuch then tells us that man from the house of the tribe of Levi married a woman, the daughter of Levi (Ex. 2:1). We later discover that the man is Amram, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi. She, Yocheved is the daughter of Levi, thus Moses father married his Aunt, an illegal marriage per Leviticus.
CHARLES
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2013,06:35) Quote (Ed J @ June 08 2013,02:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 08 2013,14:44)
So you assert that moses was not healed or cured from his speech impediment, correct?
Hi BD,No, I'm suggesting that I don't know,
AND there is no evidence to suggest he was.
At least none that I've seen; why, do you have any?Ed
I agree with Ed. Is there scriptural evidence of Moses being cured? The fact that he was self conscious about his speech problem would not prohibit him from speaking at all.Perhaps he was afraid to address the hierarchy of Egypt with a speech impediment for fear they would laugh him out of the palace – or not take him seriously.
Obviously, as time (and the plagues) went on, Moses gained a lot of confidence. He realized that it wasn't about him, or the way he talked, but about the fact that God was with him.
That kind of revelation would give anyone a whole lot of confidence they formerly lacked.
…and I agree with Mike.
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 09 2013,06:39) Just like the Calf you don't know why they chose to make a golden calf, do you?
Hi BD, I said why.“because they thought something happened to Moses.”
If you have something to add, please do so.Ed
carmel,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote The qur'an can not be of the same God that wrote the bible.
It has a different spirit,and it was written about seven hundred years after Christ.BD,
The fact that it is a different spirit, it doesn't mean that he was not God of our bible!
ALLAH, or GOD, IS IN ALL THE ENTIRE SPIRITS!
ALL SPIRITS ARE HIS SUBSTANCE, AND THE EVIL SPIRITS STILL EXISTS THROUGH HIS SPIRIT WITHIN!BUT THEY BELIEVED THAT THEY WERE AUTONOMOUS
NOTHING STANDS WITHOUT HIS SPIRIT WITHIN!
HE IS THE ONLY POWER SOURCE FOR ALL!
Charles
Quote (carmel @ June 09 2013,21:10) carmel,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote The qur'an can not be of the same God that wrote the bible.
It has a different spirit,and it was written about seven hundred years after Christ.BD,
The fact that it is a different spirit, it doesn't mean that he was not God of our bible!
ALLAH, or GOD, IS IN ALL THE ENTIRE SPIRITS!
ALL SPIRITS ARE HIS SUBSTANCE, AND THE EVIL SPIRITS STILL EXISTS THROUGH HIS SPIRIT WITHIN!BUT THEY BELIEVED THAT THEY WERE AUTONOMOUS
NOTHING STANDS WITHOUT HIS SPIRIT WITHIN!
HE IS THE ONLY POWER SOURCE FOR ALL!
Charles
Hi Charles,Have you been reading the quran as well?
Ed
bodhitharta,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote You might want to read without prejudice and then come to a conclusion. Did Adam and Eve die the day when they ate the fruit? NO. BD,
YES FROM GOD'S POINT OF VIEW, BUT FROM SATAN'S POINT OF VIEW, WAS TEMPORARY ALIVE IN THE FLESH BODY!
Adam and Eve, died spiritually instantly!
FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THEIR SOUL BECAME THE ABODE OF THE DEATH EVIL SPIRIT, SATAN!
THE SOUL COULD IN NO WAY COMUNICATE WITH GOD! SHE SIMPLY WAS SUBJECT TO THE FLESH, SATAN'S EARTHLY SUBSTANCE! SINCE ADAM SINNED!
Charles
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