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Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2010,16:03) Mike,
I had a thought about the 'no god formed before me' phrase. If the unbegotten God is speaking here, He may be saying that no unbegotten God will be formed before Him or after Him. Obviously 'formed' gods were made by man in stone and wood and money, etc. So, I think He is referring to 'unbegotten gods' here.
Hi Kathi,Is Satan made of stone?
Is he a god?
Is Jesus made of stone?
Are the men that God called gods made of stone?
Are the angels the some Israelites referred to as gods made of stone?
There is nothing in scripture to imply that gods like Dagon and Molech and the “Prince of Assyria” that Michael had to battle with aren't real. We know of the “signs” that the Egyptian priests did before Moses. They made sticks into snakes, made frogs, etc. How?
What about the demons that possessed people in Jesus' day? They could come in and out of people and pigs in an apparently spirit form.
Rest assured, there are still many gods around. And God was saying He was the first, and He will be the last, IMO.
ps, He also says we are only to worship Him.
peace and love,
mikeGene,
If you read the word 'God' here and think 'unbegotten God' it makes perfect sense.Isa 43:10….> Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant, whim I have chosen: that you may know and Believe me, and understand the (I) am he: before me there was (NO)unbegotten GOD formed< Neither shall the Be (AFTER ME). Many more show there is only (ONE) true unbegotten GOD, If you are in dought Believe what Jesus said in Prayer, “FOR THOU ARE THE (ONLY) TRUE unbegottenGOD”.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 15 2010,16:11) Mike……….Isa 45:5…. I am the LORD and there is (NONE) else, there is (NO) God besides (ME). Isa 43:10….> Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant, whim I have chosen: that you may know and Believe me, and understand the (I) am he: before me there was (NO) GOD formed< Neither shall the Be (AFTER ME). Many more show there is only (ONE) true GOD, If you are in dought Believe what Jesus said in Prayer, "FOR THOU ARE THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD".
peace and love ……………………….gene
Hi Gene,Jesus has it right. Jehovah is the only TRUE God. But God Himself calls others gods. So what do you think about that? God is the Almighty. There are many gods (mighty ones), but only one God (Almighty One). Get it? It's scriptural Gene. Just like Jesus pre-existing. I didn't make the rules, I am just following them.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 15 2010,00:14) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2010,16:03) Mike,
I had a thought about the 'no god formed before me' phrase. If the unbegotten God is speaking here, He may be saying that no unbegotten God will be formed before Him or after Him. Obviously 'formed' gods were made by man in stone and wood and money, etc. So, I think He is referring to 'unbegotten gods' here.
Hi Kathi,Is Satan made of stone?
Is he a god?
Is Jesus made of stone?
Are the men that God called gods made of stone?
Are the angels the some Israelites referred to as gods made of stone?
There is nothing in scripture to imply that gods like Dagon and Molech and the “Prince of Assyria” that Michael had to battle with aren't real. We know of the “signs” that the Egyptian priests did before Moses. They made sticks into snakes, made frogs, etc. How?
What about the demons that possessed people in Jesus' day? They could come in and out of people and pigs in an apparently spirit form.
Rest assured, there are still many gods around. And God was saying He was the first, and He will be the last, IMO.
ps, He also says we are only to worship Him.
peace and love,
mike
Mike all those other gods were created and so they were made.We can only worship the unbegotten God through the begotten God.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 15 2010,07:40) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 15 2010,07:34) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,07:20) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 14 2010,15:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,06:52) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 14 2010,14:40) You ask, “””Was God ever without his Word?”””
If you mean his son by, WORD, yes; you can read about his, the son's/word, beginning in Prov. 8:22-30.
Why did John refer to Jesus as the word? Here is the reason.
God was never without his Word.There is no scripture that says Jesus who is called the “Word of God” was created.
Proverbs 8 is merely speculation because the “Word” or Jesus name is not in Prov 8.
WJ
I am surprised you didn't say, Pr. 8:22-31 was the beginning of wisdom; that is what I was told by some ministers.
What do you think those scriptures are saying, who do they refer to? have you actually read them?
Let me put them up for you.Pro 8:22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
Pro 8:23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
Pro 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
Pro 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
Pro 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
Pro 8:28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
Pro 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Pro 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,
Pro 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.
I am trying to help you understand, nothing more.
If this doesn't show you the preexistence of Jesus, nothing else will.Georg
GeorgeI believe in the Preexistence of Jesus. But I do not believe Prov 8 is speaking of Jesus.
I think he is just talking about personified wisdom for all through Proverbs he speaks of wisdom.
It is merely conjecture to say this is the “Word” or “Jesus”. Why would Solomon give wisdom a female gender?
WJ
Like I said, you can believe what ever you want, but,…if this is speaking of wisdom, are you suggesting God had to create wisdom? if he had to create it, what gave him the wisdom to create it?
Pure nonsense.What is you reason to refuse to believe truth?
Georg
Georg,No! You are the one gurgitating “pure nonsense.” Wisdom is called “she” and a “woman” in chapter 9. It's figurative dude! Use the mind God gave you!
the Roo
I'm not qualified to teach blind people.Georg
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,07:43) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 14 2010,15:34) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,07:20) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 14 2010,15:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,06:52) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 14 2010,14:40) You ask, “””Was God ever without his Word?”””
If you mean his son by, WORD, yes; you can read about his, the son's/word, beginning in Prov. 8:22-30.
Why did John refer to Jesus as the word? Here is the reason.
God was never without his Word.There is no scripture that says Jesus who is called the “Word of God” was created.
Proverbs 8 is merely speculation because the “Word” or Jesus name is not in Prov 8.
WJ
I am surprised you didn't say, Pr. 8:22-31 was the beginning of wisdom; that is what I was told by some ministers.
What do you think those scriptures are saying, who do they refer to? have you actually read them?
Let me put them up for you.Pro 8:22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
Pro 8:23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
Pro 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
Pro 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
Pro 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
Pro 8:28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
Pro 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Pro 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,
Pro 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.
I am trying to help you understand, nothing more.
If this doesn't show you the preexistence of Jesus, nothing else will.Georg
GeorgeI believe in the Preexistence of Jesus. But I do not believe Prov 8 is speaking of Jesus.
I think he is just talking about personified wisdom for all through Proverbs he speaks of wisdom.
It is merely conjecture to say this is the “Word” or “Jesus”. Why would Solomon give wisdom a female gender?
WJ
Like I said, you can believe what ever you want, but,…if this is speaking of wisdom, are you suggesting God had to create wisdom? if he had to create it, what gave him the wisdom to create it?
Pure nonsense.What is you reason to refuse to believe truth?
Georg
GeorgeAre you saying there was a time God did not have wisdom?
Pro 8:22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
Pro 8:23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
It says the Lord brought wisdom forth not created, and what does “appointed from eternity mean” unless wisdom was from eternity?
It is pure nonsense to say Jesus was created which would make him of the created order like everything else.
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him “nothing came into being that has come into being“. John 1:1-3
If “nothing came into being that has come into being” without him then he could not have been part of the created for he did not create himself.
What is your reason to believe that at some point from eternity God did not have wisdom?
WJ
“””Are you saying there was a time God did not have wisdom?”””
Did I say that? Where?The Lord brought forth what, wisdom?
What do you mean by “brought forth”?
Explain how God “brought forth” wisdom, it says; “as the FIRST of his WORKS”.
Did wisdom have a beginning, v. 23?
Was wisdom given birth, v. 25?
Was wisdom the craftsman at God's side, v. 30?
Was wisdom always rejoicing in the presence of God, v. 30?
Was wisdom rejoicing in the whole world and delighting in mankind, v. 31?“””What is your reason to believe that at some point from eternity God did not have wisdom?”””
This is what you ask me, my point is just the opposite; if you believe that all these scriptures refer to wisdom, than you must believe that wisdom had a beginning. YOU'RE RIGHT, PURE NONSENSE.Georg
Quote (Baker @ Aug. 15 2010,21:37) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 15 2010,07:40) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 15 2010,07:34) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,07:20) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 14 2010,15:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,06:52) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 14 2010,14:40) You ask, “””Was God ever without his Word?”””
If you mean his son by, WORD, yes; you can read about his, the son's/word, beginning in Prov. 8:22-30.
Why did John refer to Jesus as the word? Here is the reason.
God was never without his Word.There is no scripture that says Jesus who is called the “Word of God” was created.
Proverbs 8 is merely speculation because the “Word” or Jesus name is not in Prov 8.
WJ
I am surprised you didn't say, Pr. 8:22-31 was the beginning of wisdom; that is what I was told by some ministers.
What do you think those scriptures are saying, who do they refer to? have you actually read them?
Let me put them up for you.Pro 8:22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
Pro 8:23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
Pro 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
Pro 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
Pro 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
Pro 8:28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
Pro 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Pro 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,
Pro 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.
I am trying to help you understand, nothing more.
If this doesn't show you the preexistence of Jesus, nothing else will.Georg
GeorgeI believe in the Preexistence of Jesus. But I do not believe Prov 8 is speaking of Jesus.
I think he is just talking about personified wisdom for all through Proverbs he speaks of wisdom.
It is merely conjecture to say this is the “Word” or “Jesus”. Why would Solomon give wisdom a female gender?
WJ
Like I said, you can believe what ever you want, but,…if this is speaking of wisdom, are you suggesting God had to create wisdom? if he had to create it, what gave him the wisdom to create it?
Pure nonsense.What is you reason to refuse to believe truth?
Georg
Georg,No! You are the one gurgitating “pure nonsense.” Wisdom is called “she” and a “woman” in chapter 9. It's figurative dude! Use the mind God gave you!
the Roo
I'm not qualified to teach blind people.Georg
Georg,Your remark is typical of the uneducated.
Proverbs 9,
“Wisdom has built HER house. SHE has hewn out HER seven pillars; SHE has slaughtered HER meat, SHE has mixed HER wine, SHE has also furnished HER table….”
Who is blind? Wisdom is CLEARLY personified as a virtuous wife. Chapter 9 is a CONTINUATION of chapter 8. So you should take off your blinders, scrap all your former presuppositions and start over.
the Roo
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 15 2010,15:25) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 15 2010,07:29) God said that there was no god formed before or AFTER Him (Is. 43:10).
Isaiah 43:10 NET
You are my witnesses,” says the Lord, “my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may consider and believe in me, and understand that I am he. No god was formed before me, and none will outlive me.This is closer to the thought God was making known IMO. It doesn't say no god was “formed” after Him, just before Him. This translation is more inline with scripture in which God many times calls others gods. It would seem strange for God to say there were no other gods at all, and then mention many gods througout scripture. Weren't Paul's words about the god of this age inspired of God?
mike
Mike,How do you know that the Net “Bible” is closer to the original thought? The Net Bible was complied by Daniel B. Wallace who thought that our scriptures are corrupt and that only he had the right understanding.
Did Jesus and the apostles quote Daniel B. Wallace and the Net “Bible”? No! They quoted the Septuagint 67% of the time and it uses the word “yinomai”
…neither did any come into being after Me.”
The online Hebrew Interlinear agrees as it translates the Hebrew “yatzar” (formed) as shall become.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/isa43.pdfWhat do you know about anything? Why would you accept the reading of a modern like Wallace, a man who thinks that only he has the true scriptures, over the reading of the Septuagint which Jesus and the apostles endorsed?
The Net “Bible” contains some unfaithful translation. Google Daniel B. Wallace and you will find that he has a whole lot of scholarship against him.
YOU'R ADVOCATING POLYTHEISM MIKE! EVEN ANGELS ARE NOW YHWH TO YOU. EVERYBODY IS YHWH TO YOU EXCEPT JESUS WHO IS ONLY A GOD IN THE “SAME SENSE” AS SATAN.
the Roo
Mike, what is the Net Bible ?
The best source for anything has to be something like Young's literal Translation, I have The Jerusalem Bible, It has things in it not found in other's [as I said] such as the book of Wisdom. I also have the Revised Standard Version (RSV) which is pretty good. For online searches I use this,
http://bible.cc/isaiah/43-10.htm
Which gives you different comparisons and cross references.
Mike,
Quote
The Literal Translation is unusual in that, as the name implies, it is a strictly literal translation of the original Hebrew and Greek texts. The Preface to the Second Edition states,
If a translation gives a present tense when the original gives a past, or a past when it has a present; a perfect for a future, or a future for a perfect; an a for a the, or a the for an a; an imperative for a subjunctive, or a subjunctive for an imperative; a verb for a noun, or a noun for a verb, it is clear that verbal inspiration is as much overlooked as if it had no existence. THE WORD OF GOD IS MADE VOID BY THE TRADITIONS OF MEN. [Emphases in original.]
UnquoteYoung's Literal Translation
Ye are My witnesses, an affirmation of Jehovah, And My servant whom I have chosen,
So that ye know and give credence to Me,
And understand that I am He,
Before Me there was no God formed, And after Me there is none.Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 15 2010,23:01) Mike, what is the Net Bible ? The best source for anything has to be something like Young's literal Translation, I have The Jerusalem Bible, It has things in it not found in other's [as I said] such as the book of Wisdom. I also have the Revised Standard Version (RSV) which is pretty good. For online searches I use this,
http://bible.cc/isaiah/43-10.htm
Which gives you different comparisons and cross references.
Shimmer,The Net “Bible” is an online “Bible” that contains the translations and commentary of a man by the name Daniel B. Wallace. He believed that all other Bibles we had before his was not the true scriptures.
It's not all bad but it does have a lot of scholarship against it. The Septuagint and the Hebrew Interlinear say that no god came into being after Jehovah.
Mike's theology is Polytheistic pure and simple1
the Roo
KangarooJack, thanks,
Didn't they find old scripture in some caves and it matched the older versions of what we have today, the Jehovah's Witnesses also have their own translation I think with changes made to fit their own doctrines.
Polytheistic ?
Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 15 2010,23:45) KangarooJack, thanks, Didn't they find old scripture in some caves and it matched the older versions of what we have today, the Jehovah's Witnesses also have their own translation I think with changes made to fit their own doctrines.
Polytheistic ?
Shimmer,Wallace taught that no other translation was the pure word of God so he came out with a translation of his own.
Jesus and the apostles quoted the Septuagint 67% of the time. This gives the Septuagint a lot of authority. It says that no other god came into being after Jehovah casting Mike's polytheism into hades.
KJ
Mike, begotten brother, where you at, man?
Yow, what's with this “God” business, bro?
Yow, like you said, “God” means 'A Mighty One', 'One of Might, and Power and Authority', to be expansive.
No piece of stone, nor figure in gold, nor animal, nor carving, nor thought or idea, has 'power and authority', is 'a god', except by that invested in it by a higher Authority, e.g. MAN or, the 'True God', the 'One God', the 'Almighty God'.
This saying, call nothing 'God' except by qualification by the source of its power and authority, otherwise confusion will reign amongst the innocent and naive, and give credence to your detractors.
Mike, when you make a statement, you leave walloping holes for your opposers to walk through your argument.
You had this with WJ concerning 'God' and 'god' and he walked all over and through you, and you doing it again.
By writing as you do, you are endorsing the word 'God' for everyday use for everyday 'objects of man-empowered authority'. Mike, this is dangerous, as some will believe you, and I guess you want people to believe you, yes?
I know it's not what you meant and I didn't interfere when you debated with WJ because I wanted to see where you were going…but you didn't. It all got into a mess of 'yes you said' and 'no i didn't'.
“God” is a TITLE. It is not a Being.
All references to the title MUST be read in context.
“Mighty God” is also a TITLE. It does not imply 'God Almighty' except in context of the surrounding text.“He called them 'Gods', to whom the word of God came'.
Who is 'Gods' and who is 'God' here.
“Gods”, clearly, this means, 'Mighty ones of mankind', these are the Prophets, the Elders, the Kings..:.Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Saul, David, Solomon, Ezekiel, Daniel, Jeremiah, Jonah, (…).
Who is 'God', clearly the 'one God', the source of that 'Word'.God called Moses, 'the God of Aaron', ha!, stand up anyone who thinks God, YHVH, is calling Moses 'God'. Please leave the room…and go directly to detention, do not pass 'go'! Get out of Jail cards will be handed out for good conduct later, perhaps.
The Scripture translators could easily have put in 'Mighty one' instead of 'god'.
What is the context? Moses receives instructions directly from God, YHVH, and passes it to Aaron, who speaks in both God, and Moses place..Moses has a speach impediment… Therfore, to Aaron, Moses is a mighty one, as God Amighty, YHVH, is The Mighty one to Moses. Moses is Empowering Aaron, as God is empowering Moses.
Again, no so.called 'Gods' are empowered by itself and should not be referred to as 'God', nor 'god', without reference to the source of it's power and authority, i.e. From mankind or God, YHVH, so, by this, we then undrstand that we are referring to a manmade power and authority, e.g. A Judge, a Law enforcer, a King, a Magistrate, a head dignatory, etc.
Where the authority is from God, it must be revered.
It is said in the Scriptures, 'Obey them, who are in authority over you…'. It also say of one or two, 'know ye that you have power and authority only because it comes from God'(my paraphrase)…'ye are a god only because YHVH empowered thee', and, 'I raised up Pharaoh (to be a Mighty One, to be a God, gave him power and authority in Egypt) to show the nations when I bring him down, that I, alone, am [the Almighty] God. That as much as you revere Pharoah, I, YHVH, am mightier, than even this mighty one, and my name will bring fear and yet be praised and glorified throughout the whole earth, and that there is no other like me.' (My paraphrase).Gene,
Thanks be to the Holy Spirit that empowered me to write it.We agree twice now. Nice. Bro' in waiting…
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 15 2010,22:16) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 15 2010,21:37) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 15 2010,07:40) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 15 2010,07:34) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,07:20) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 14 2010,15:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,06:52) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 14 2010,14:40) You ask, “””Was God ever without his Word?”””
If you mean his son by, WORD, yes; you can read about his, the son's/word, beginning in Prov. 8:22-30.
Why did John refer to Jesus as the word? Here is the reason.
God was never without his Word.There is no scripture that says Jesus who is called the “Word of God” was created.
Proverbs 8 is merely speculation because the “Word” or Jesus name is not in Prov 8.
WJ
I am surprised you didn't say, Pr. 8:22-31 was the beginning of wisdom; that is what I was told by some ministers.
What do you think those scriptures are saying, who do they refer to? have you actually read them?
Let me put them up for you.Pro 8:22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
Pro 8:23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
Pro 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
Pro 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
Pro 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
Pro 8:28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
Pro 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Pro 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,
Pro 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.
I am trying to help you understand, nothing more.
If this doesn't show you the preexistence of Jesus, nothing else will.Georg
GeorgeI believe in the Preexistence of Jesus. But I do not believe Prov 8 is speaking of Jesus.
I think he is just talking about personified wisdom for all through Proverbs he speaks of wisdom.
It is merely conjecture to say this is the “Word” or “Jesus”. Why would Solomon give wisdom a female gender?
WJ
Like I said, you can believe what ever you want, but,…if this is speaking of wisdom, are you suggesting God had to create wisdom? if he had to create it, what gave him the wisdom to create it?
Pure nonsense.What is you reason to refuse to believe truth?
Georg
Georg,No! You are the one gurgitating “pure nonsense.” Wisdom is called “she” and a “woman” in chapter 9. It's figurative dude! Use the mind God gave you!
the Roo
I'm not qualified to teach blind people.Georg
Georg,Your remark is typical of the uneducated.
Proverbs 9,
“Wisdom has built HER house. SHE has hewn out HER seven pillars; SHE has slaughtered HER meat, SHE has mixed HER wine, SHE has also furnished HER table….”
Who is blind? Wisdom is CLEARLY personified as a virtuous wife. Chapter 9 is a CONTINUATION of chapter 8. So you should take off your blinders, scrap all your former presuppositions and start over.
the Roo
Uneducated, if you knew my Husbands mind, you would not say that. Even though He did not go to a College, I truly believe He knows more that life has taught Him, then a man that has all the education they could get….. God's Holy Spirit is what reveals the truth and not a College Degree…
Again we are getting personal which I despise to say the least….. When someone does so I wonder if He or She is a Christian…. well not in my Book…. I know my Book does not matter to you….Then t8 is uneducated too, because He believes that Proverbs 8:22-30 talks about Jesus too……IreneQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2010,16:23) Mike all those other gods were created and so they were made. We can only worship the unbegotten God through the begotten God.
Hi Kathi,Very good. So just make sure you only worship the One THROUGH the other, not “worship the other”.
mike
Irene said:
Quote Uneducated, if you knew my Husbands mind, you would not say that. Even though He did not go to a College, I truly believe He knows more that life has taught Him, then a man that has all the education they could get….. God's Holy Spirit is what reveals the truth and not a College Degree…
Again we are getting personal which I despise to say the least….. When someone does so I wonder if He or She is a Christian…. well not in my Book…. I know my Book does not matter to you….Then t8 is uneducated too, because He believes that Proverbs 8:22-30 talks about Jesus too……Irene
Irene,Proverbs 8 does NOT talk about Jesus. It begins with personification. “Does not wisdom cry, and understanding put forth HER voice” (vs. 1). Chapter 9 indicates that Solomon was using personification to speak about wisdom as a virtuous wife.
Your husband is NOT educated in the principles of biblical interpretation. Those who are educated in the principles of biblical interpretation are trained to notice things such as context and figures of speech. The educated are not as prone to jump to conclusions as are the uneducated.
Proverbs is classified as one of the poetic books of the Bible. As such it contains a lot of metaphor. It should be treated as the poetic book it is.
the Roo
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 15 2010,22:34) Did Jesus and the apostles quote Daniel B. Wallace and the Net “Bible”? No! They quoted the Septuagint 67% of the time and it uses the word “yinomai” …neither did any come into being after Me.”
Hi Jack,Here's the last part of Is 43:10 from the LXX,
emprosyen……………………….before
mou…………………………………me
ouk………………………………….never
egeneto……………………………begotten
allov…………………………………another
yeov…………………………………god
kai……………………………………and
met………………………………….after
eme………………………………….me
ouk…………………………………..never
estai…………………………………exist
So, all together, the LXX says, “before me never begotten another god and after me never exist”.
That definitely does NOT say none will be begotten after God, just that there will be none that exist after Him, or none that will “outlive” Him.
peace and love,
mike
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