Preexistence

[carmel]

Hi Jodi,

YOU: Proclaimer, the Gospel is not about some anointed spirit son coming to earth emptying himself to die for our sins and

then go back to his former glory.

 

ME: READ THE GOSPEL Jodi:

John6:62 But Jesus, knowing in himself, that his disciples murmured at this, said to them:

Doth this scandalize you?

 62If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?(Jesus’ pre-existence)

 63It is the spirit that quickeneth: (GOD’S WORD)

the flesh profiteth nothing. ( ABRAHAM’S, and DAVID’S)

The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life.

John16:25 These things I have spoken to you in proverbs. The hour cometh, when I will no more speak to you in proverbs,

but will show you plainly of the Father.

 26In that day you shall ask in my name; and I say not to you, that I will ask the Father for you: 27For the Father himself loveth you, because you have loved me,

and have believed that I came out from God.

 28I came forth from the Father,(Jesus’ pre-existence)

and am come into the world:

again I leave the world, and I go to the Father.

John 17:4I have glorified thee on the earth;

I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 

5And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself,

with the glory which I had,

before the world was,

with thee. (Jesus’ pre-existence)

John13:1BEFORE the festival day of the pasch, Jesus knowing that his hour was come,

that he should pass out of this world to the Father: …..

3Knowing that the Father had given him all things into his hands,

and that he came from God, and goeth to God; (Jesus’ pre-existence)

John3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven,

but he that descended from heaven,

the Son of man who is in heaven. (Jesus’ pre-existence)

Galatians 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected;

but received me as an angel of God,

even as Christ Jesus. (Jesus’ pre-existence)

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[carmel]

HiGene,,

YOU: When in your mind you have turned Jesus away from you own identity with him

YOUR FIRST LIE:

ME: Gene, JESUS ON HIS RESURRECTION  ESTABLISHED THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE

ALL AUTHENTIC BROTHERS IN HIM!!!

Scripture:

John20:17Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me, for I am not yet ascended to my Father.

But go to my brethren,…..

Gene the above is the only moment that JESUS HIMSELF CALLED US HIS BRETHREN!

HE MADE US ALL HIS AUTHENTIC BRETHREN IN HIS OWN BODY,

BORN AGAIN FROM ALL THE DEAD. HE SIMPLY

GAVE US HIS PUREST FLESH PROVIDED BY GOD THE FATHER! 

Scripture: Luke 22:19….This is my body,

which is GIVEN for you. ….

OK Gene Jesus purposely came FORTH FROM GOD THE FATHER, in order to

GIVE HIS BODY TO THE HUMAN RACE!!!

YOU: as a pure human being,

ME: Gene, YOUR SECOND LIE:

HUMANS WERE NOT PURE, THEY WERE SATANIC, NOT EVEN A PEOPLE,

NEVER MIND  PURE HUMANS.

Scripture:

1Peter 2:10Who in time past were not a people:

but are now the people of God. Who had not obtained mercy; but now have obtained mercy.

NOW JESUS WAS NOT ONLY A PURE HUMAN BEING BUT

THE PUREST HUMAN BEING THAT EVER WALKED ON EARTH!

WHY YOU MIGHT ASK?

Read scriptures:

John8:23 And he said to them: You are from BENEATH,(SATANIC SUBSTANCE)

I am from above. (GOD’S SUBSTANCE)

You are of this world,

I am not of this world. (SATANIC)

Gene, NO MAN SUBJECT TO THE PROCESS OF THIS SATANIC EARTH, WAS JUSTIFIED IN THE EYES OF GOD AS A PURE RANSOM PRECISELY FOR THE REDEMPTION OF THE SATANIC HUMAN RACE, THE GENTILES!!

GOD THE FATHER FURNISHED HIMSELF THE PURE FLESH SUBSTANCE FOR  THE BODY OF

HIS OWN SON , AS A RANSOM.

SCRIPTURES:

Genesis 22:And Abraham said:

God will provide himself a victim for an holocaust, my son.

So they went on together.

GOD THE FATHER AND JESUS ON GOLGOTHA AS A SACRIFICE!

SIMPLY FOR JESUS TO GLORIFIY

GODMAN IN

JESUS CHRIST!!! Hereunder:

John13:31When he therefore was gone out, Jesus said:

Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 

32If God be glorified in him, God also will glorify him in himself;

and immediately (ON HIS DEATH) will he glorify him.

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith: Sacrifice and offerring thou wouldest not:

but a body thou hast PREPARED for me:

Gene, IN THE SAME WAY, WE HUMANS ARE  THE SUBSTANCE OF OUR FATHER!

SIMPLY IN ORDER FOR GOD THE FATHER TO BE OUR GOD AND SAVIOR BY HIS OWN SPIRIT SUBSTANCE.  Hebrews 1:3

PRECISELY   

“THE WORD” MADE FLESH.

JESUS THE SON OF MAN! OR MOR APPROPRIATE

THE DIVINE SON ALLOCATED TO THE HUMAN RACE!

Gene more of your lies to be revealed in the next post!

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

 

[gadam123]

Hi Berean, Carmel and others,

I am not new to this. I was born as Trinitarian Christian and am on continuous struggle to understand the concept of God in the New Testament. But I am more confused on the nature and person of Jesus which is found in the NT writings. So I started unlearning every thing and started afresh from Zero and now learned that the NT writers created confusion by making man Jesus as a preexisting divine being who was in the beginning with one and only God and emptied himself and taken birth as human on this earth.

I am quoting the wonderful quotations from John Knox book “The Humanity and Divinity of Christ: A Study of Pattern in Christology”;

“My purpose in this essay is limited and comparatively simple: I wish to lift up for consideration the several ways in which the early Church dealt with what has always been the central problem of christology, namely, the humanity of Christ, the divine Lord, and in this way help, if I may, to clarify our own thoughts about him.”

He argues, “The question, however, is … whether evidence for the primitive existence of such an (“adoptionist”) christology is to be found in (Luke’s) work. I do not see how we can escape the conclusion that it is. To cite the clearest example, Acts 2:36… how can this passage be interpreted to mean anything else than that the man Jesus… was at the resurrection exalted to his present messianic status?” (Pg. 7-8)

Later he observes, “There are passages in Paul which… would suggest that he shared in the primitive adoptionism… But if such passages… seem to reflect the persistence of the early adoptionism, other passages put beyond doubt Paul’s belief in Jesus’ pre-existence.” (Pg. 19-20) He adds, “Did Paul think of Jesus as being in his pre-existence this ideal heavenly Man?… one cannot rule out the possibility that Paul, at least sometimes, thought of Christ’s pre-existence in terms borrowed from this kind of theological speculation.” (Pg. 21)

He concludes, “For if it is impossible to conceive that God could become a man, it is also impossible to conceive of a man’s becoming God. But actually no such conception needs to be involved in our confession of the resurrection. He was ‘raised to the right hand of God.’ He was not divested of his humanity, but his humanity itself became a divine, and divinely redeeming, thing.” (Pg. 111)

This is the paradox and mythology created by the NT writers on the nature of Jesus.

[gadam123]

Berean:

Yet Genesis says

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever

God said: “Let us make man in our image . . .” (Genesis 1:26) ((Genesis 1:26)) and “Come, let us go down, and there confound their language” (Genesis 11:7)((Genesis 11:7)). To whom does the “us” refer? Is it talking about the Trinity or about Gods connection to Humanity? Find out in this post.

Here Is The Answer To That Question
Trinitarian Christians maintain that Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7 are proof-texts of an alleged tri-unity god, but this claim is erroneous. The inference that “Let us make man in our image” ((Genesis 1:26)) refers to the plurality of God is refuted by the subsequent verse, which relates the creation of man to a singular God, “And God created man in His image” ((Genesis 1:27)).

In this verse the Hebrew verb “created” appears in the singular form. If “let us make man” indicates a numerical plurality, it would be followed in the NEXT verse by, “And they created man in their image.” Obviously, the plural form is used in the same way as in the divine appellation ‘Elohim, to indicate the all-inclusiveness of God’s attributes of authority and power, the plurality of majesty. It is customary for one in authority to speak of himself as if he were a plurality.

Hence, Absalom said to Ahithophel, “Give your counsel what we shall do” ((2 Samuel 16:20)). The context shows that he was seeking advice for himself’ yet he refers to himself as “we” ((see also Ezra 4:16-19)).

God Manifesting His Humility
There is another possible reason for the use of the plural on the part of God, and that is to manifest His humility. God addresses Himself to the angels and says to them, “Let us make man in our image.” It is not that He invites their help, but as a matter of modesty and courtesy, God associates them with the creation of man. This teaches us that a great man should act humbly and consult with those lower than him.

It is not unusual for God to refer to His heavenly court (angels) as “us,” as we see in Isaiah 6:8, “And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, ‘Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?'” Although God often acts without assistance, He makes His intentions known to His servants. Thus, we find “Shall I conceal from Abraham that which I am doing” ((Genesis 18:17)); “He made known His ways to Moses, His doings to the children of Israel” ((Psalms 103:7)); “For the Lord God will do nothing without revealing His counsel to His servants the prophets” ((Amos 3:7)).

A misconception similar to that concerning Genesis 1:27 is held by trinitarian Christians with reference to the verse, “Come, let us go down, and there confound their language” ((Genesis 11:7)). Here, too, the confounding of the language is related in verse 9 to God alone, “. . . because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth.” In this verse the Hebrew verb “did” appears in the singular form.

The Singularity of God
Also, the descent is credited in verse 5 to the Lord alone, “And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower.” In this verse the Hebrew verb “came down” appears in the singular form. If a doctrine of plurality of persons is to be based on the grammatical form of words, the frequent interchanging of the singular and the plural should vitiate such an attempt as being without foundation or merit. We may safely conclude that the Bible refutes most emphatically every opinion, which deviates from the concept of an indivisible unity of God.

Chapter 45 of Isaiah, using the Tetragrammaton, unequivocally asserts that the Lord alone is the creator and ruler of all things in the universe. The six uses of ‘Elohim in this chapter ((verses 3, 5, 14, 15, 18, 21)) show that the term ‘Elohim is synonymous with the Tetragrammaton, and that both epithets refer to the absolute one-and-only God. The singularity of God, expressed in the first-person singular in verse 12, clearly shows who is meant by the phrase, “Let us create man in our image”: “I, even I, have made the earth, and created man upon it; I, even My hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.”

As for the Messiah, of him God says, “And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even My servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and My servant David prince among them; I the Lord have spoken” ((Ezekiel 34:23-24)). The Lord alone will be worshiped as God, while the Messiah, as the servant of God, lives with the people. God and the Messiah are not and cannot be equals, for it is God alone who gives the Messiah power to rule in the capacity of His appointed servant.

[Berean]

Gadam

There are enough biblical passages that show the divinity and humanity of the Son of God. Why close to this evidence and get stuck.

[carmel]

HI Gadam,

1King 1:32 King David also said: Call me Sadoc the priest, and Nathan the prophet, and Banaias the son of Joiada. And when they were come in before the king, 33He said to them: Take with you the servants of your lord, and set my son Solomon upon my mule: and bring him to Gihon. 34And let Sadoc the priest, and Nathan the prophet anoint him there king over Israel: and you shall sound the trumpet, and shall say:

God save king Solomon.

35And you shall come up after him, and he shall come, and shall sit upon my throne, and he shall reign in my stead: and I will appoint him to be ruler over Israel, and over Juda.

36And Banaias the son of Joiada answered the king, saying:

Amen: so say the Lord the God of my lord the king.

37As the Lord hath been with my lord the king,

so be he with Solomon,

and make his throne HIGHER than the throne of my lord king David.

YOU: God and the Messiah are not and cannot be equals,

for it is God alone who gives the Messiah power to rule in the capacity of His appointed servant.

Gadam: ARE DAVID AND SOLOMON EQUALS?

WASN’T KING DAVID ALONE WHO GAVE SOLOMON POWER TO RULE OVER ISRAEL?

WERE AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME BOTH

 DAVID AND SOLOMON  KINGS OVER ISRAEL?

DEFINITELY NOT!!!

AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME 

WHO IS THE HIGHEST, AND SUPREME RULER OVER THE ENTIRE UNIVERSES!

GODMAN ALMIGHTY JESUS or

GOD ALMIGHTY THE FATHER?

1Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign,

until he (God the Father)hath put all his(Jesus’) enemies under his (Jesus’) feet.

26And the enemy death shall be destroyed last: For he hath put all things under his feet. And whereas he saith, 27All things are put under him; undoubtedly, he(God the Father) is excepted, who put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him,

then (not now)

the Son also himself (AS AN EMBODIMENT) shall be subject unto him (GOD THE FATHER EMBODIED AS JESUS CHRIST) that put all things under him,

that God (BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON) may be all in all.

John 17: 23 I in them, and thou in me;

that they may be made perfect in one:

 GOD THE MIGHTY JESUS CHRIST! (ISAIAH 9:6)

and the world may

know that THOU HAST sent me, (Present perfect, started in the past and continues in the present. Jesus’ pre-existence)
and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.

MATTHEW 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying:

All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. 

Mark 10:37 And they said: Grant to us, that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand,

in thy glory. 

40But to sit on my right hand, or on my left, is not mine to give to you,

but to them for whom it is prepared.

John17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had,

before the world was, with thee.

John 17:10: And all my things are thine, and thine are mine;

and I am glorified in them.

24Father, I WILL that where I AM,

they also whom thou HAST GIVEN me may be with me;

that they may see MY GLORY which thou HAST GIVEN ME,

because THOUGH HAST LOVED ME before the creation of the world.

1 John3:2 Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that,

when he shall appear, we shall be like to him:

because we shall see HIM as HE IS.

Gadam  answer:

WHO IS  “HIM” and “HE” in the above?

GOD?

JESUS CHRIST?  or both

GOD and JESUS CHRIST?

TWO IN ONE FLESH

As they were before the creation of all!

God the Father THE SPIRIT, and God the Son THE FLESH!

John17:2 As thou HAST GIVEN (Jesus’pre-existence)  him power over all flesh,…..

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

 

 

[gadam123]

Berean: There are enough biblical passages that show the divinity and humanity of the Son of God. Why close to this evidence and get stuck.

Hello Berean, I have brought the arguments on the Hebrew scriptures you quoted to support Trinity or Binity. There may be multiple scriptures to support the mythological nature of Jesus stating 100% God and 100% Man in the NT but not in the Hebrew Bible.

[gadam123]

Gadam  answer:

WHO IS  “HIM” and “HE” in the above?

GOD?

JESUS CHRIST?  or both

GOD and JESUS CHRIST?
TWO IN ONE FLESH
As they were before the creation of all!

Hi Carmel, you are asking answer from me. Yes I have already quoted in my posts that God alone is the sole creator of the universe there was no one else with him. And also that God appoints human Messiah who will rule on behalf of God in the Messianic kingdom but he can not be equal to God. But the NT writers created ambiguity of Jesus’ role in God’s creation and salvation process. It is clearly visible that Jesus shares the glory with God (the one and only) in the NT this is some thing which is strange to the idea of God and his Messiah as per Hebrew Bible.

[GeneBalthrop]

Adam…….Great posts brother,  lets hope they take it to heart.  Jesus in prayer said , this is eternal life, that they believe in “YOU” the “ONLY ” TRUE GOD”. Jesus knew full well there was only “ONE” TRUE GOD”.

peace and love to you and yours ………gene

[Berean]

 

Gene

 

Adam…….Great posts brother,  lets hope they take it to heart.  Jesus in prayer said , this is eternal life, that they believe in “YOU” the “ONLY ” TRUE GOD”. Jesus knew full well there was only “ONE” TRUE GOD”.

Mr

You could have quoted the whole verse …. but you are not very honest, so you did not …..

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

No True GOD WITHOUT JESUS

AND ” THE WORD ” WAS WITH GOD

AND WAS GOD

THIS IS THE TRUTH

 

 

 

[carmel]

HI Gadam, and Gene,

 

YOU: Hi Carmel, you are asking answer from me. Yes I have already quoted in my posts that

God alone is the sole creator of the universe there was no one else with him.

Me: THE TRUTH IS, THAT NO ONE KNOWS

WHAT GOD IS!

EXCEPT IN JESUS!

Genesis 1:26 And he said: Let US make man to

OUR image and likeness: 

Me: Gadam, ARE YOU, as a human being, IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF GOD, 

ONE 

or

TWO 

BODY and SOUL?

Or when you include the spirit WHICH IS OF GOD, EVEN

THREE?

AREN’T YOU 

A SPIRIT, A BODY, and A SOUL?

ONE GADAM

in the image and likeness of

GOD:

THE FATHER, THE SON and THE HOLY GHOST

Jeremiah 32:41And I will rejoice over them, when I shall do them good:

and I (THE FATHER) will plant them in this land in truth, with my whole heart, (“THE WORD” MADE FELSH) and with all my soul.(THE HOLY GHOST) 

Isaiah 42:1BEHOLD my servant, I (THE FATHER) will uphold him: my elect, MY SOUL (THE HOLY GHOST)   delighteth in HIM:(“THE WORD”MADE FLESH) 

 

NOW AS A HUMAN BEING WE ARE

 

A BODY AND A SOUL

ARE NOT YOUR BODY and YOUR SOUL

EQUAL AS A HUMAN BEING,

ONE

GADAM?

in the image and likeness of God?

John1:1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 Isn’t the above the same story if 

“THE WORD” MADE FLESH

IS THE BODY OF GOD, IN THE FORM OF GOD,

THE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD, and

GOD THE SPIRIT WITHIN?

JESUS CHRIST PRE-EXISTENT

GODMAN

John17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had,

before the world was, with thee.

WHEN YOU WORK OR DO SOMETHING AS A HUMAN

AREN’T YOU

ALONE

and IN THE SAME TIME

NOT ALONE

YOU and YOUR SOUL?

 A PERFECT PARADOX!

 John5:17 But Jesus answered them: My Father worketh until now; and I work.

THIS IS FOR YOU GENE:

YOU:Adam…….Great posts brother,  lets hope they take it to heart.  

YES, I DID!

MORE TO COME!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

 

[gadam123]

Adam…….Great posts brother,  lets hope they take it to heart.  Jesus in prayer said , this is eternal life, that they believe in “YOU” the “ONLY ” TRUE GOD”. Jesus knew full well there was only “ONE” TRUE GOD”.

Hello brother Gene, thanks for your appreciation. In fact the verse you quoted from John 17:3-5 again talks about the role of Jesus in promised Eternal life being granted to Christians. This is where I am repeatedly pointing out that the NT writers added Jesus’ role every place where God alone is the source and author.

[gadam123]

Hi Carmel,

You : THE TRUTH IS, THAT NO ONE KNOWS

WHAT GOD IS!
EXCEPT IN JESUS!
 
Genesis 1:26 And he said: Let US make man to
OUR image and likeness:

Me: Please refer my previous post on Gen 1:26 stating that there is no plural of God in ‘Us’

You: Gadam, ARE YOU, as a human being, IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF GOD, 

ONE 
or

TWO 
BODY and SOUL?
Or when you include the spirit WHICH IS OF GOD, EVEN

THREE?
AREN’T YOU 

A SPIRIT, A BODY, and A SOUL?
ONE GADAM
in the image and likeness of

GOD:
THE FATHER, THE SON and THE HOLY GHOST

Me: I don’t find any logic here on your division of Man Vs division of God. There is no Father, Son and Holy Spirit available in the Hebrew Bible unless you force the scriptures (OT)

You: A BODY AND A SOUL

ARE NOT YOUR BODY and YOUR SOUL
EQUAL AS A HUMAN BEING,
ONE
GADAM?
in the image and likeness of God?
John1:1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
 Isn’t the above the same story if 

“THE WORD” MADE FLESH
IS THE BODY OF GOD, IN THE FORM OF GOD,
THE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD, and
GOD THE SPIRIT WITHIN?
JESUS CHRIST PRE-EXISTENT
GODMAN

Me: It’s purely your interpretation that God is divisible like human being and a part of God can be separated and become human being called Jesus which is some thing strange as per Hebrew Bible.

 

[carmel]

Hi Gadam,

YOU: I don’t find any logic here on your division of Man Vs division of God. There is no Father, Son and Holy Spirit available in the Hebrew Bible unless you force the scriptures (OT)

ME: Do you mean that God as Father is not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible?

Do you mean that God the Father never mentioned in a way or another His Son in the Hebrew Bible?

Do you mean that in a way or another The Holy Spirit is never mentioned in the Hebrew Bible?

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[gadam123]

Hi Carmel,

You: Do you mean that God as Father is not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible?

Do you mean that God the Father never mentioned in a way or another His Son in the Hebrew Bible?

Do you mean that in a way or another The Holy Spirit is never mentioned in the Hebrew Bible?

Me: I am sorry I never meant that God is not father in the Hebrew Bible. I only meant that God is not divisible into Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the Hebrew Bible as your post was talking about division of man Vs God.

[carmel]

Hi Gadam,

YOU: Hi Carmel,

ME: Do you mean that God as Father is not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible?

Do you mean that God the Father never mentioned in a way or another His Son in the Hebrew Bible?

Do you mean that in a way or another The Holy Spirit is never mentioned in the Hebrew Bible?

YOU: I am sorry I never meant that God is not father in the Hebrew Bible.

 

ME: ONE DOWN TWO TO GO!

I only meant that God is not divisible into Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the Hebrew Bible as your post was talking about division of man Vs God.

ME: In my post, I asked three questions related to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of which

You answered only one!

I am expecting that you ALSO DO SO the ones regarding the Son and The Holy Spirit.

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[gadam123]

Hi brother Carmel,

You: Do you mean that God as Father is not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible?

Me: 1. Yes God as Father mentioned in the Hebrew Bible. Isaiah 63:16

For you are our father,
though Abraham does not know us
and Israel does not acknowledge us;
you, O Lord, are our father;
our Redeemer from of old is your name.

You: Do you mean that God the Father never mentioned in a way or another His Son in the Hebrew Bible?

Me: I have already answered the first part of this question. Yes Israel was called as God’s son in Hebrew Bible in Ex 4:22 and also David’s son Solomon or the future messiah will be God’s son “I will be his father and he will be my son” (2 Sam 7:14; 1 Chron 17:13).

You: Do you mean that in a way or another The Holy Spirit is never mentioned in the Hebrew Bible?

Me: I could not follow your question one way or another The Holy Spirit. Any how the ‘holy spirit’ is mentioned in Ps 51:11

Do not cast me away from your presence,
and do not take your holy spirit from me.

I hope this will answer your questions to me. But I was only denying the division of God as Father, son and Holy spirit as quoted by you earlier.

[carmel]

Hi Gadam,

YOU:Me: I have already answered the first part of this question. Yes Israel was called as God’s son in Hebrew Bible in Ex 4:22 and also David’s son Solomon or the future messiah will be God’s son “I will be his father and he will be my son” (2 Sam 7:14; 1 Chron 17:13).

ME: God is a spirit and generally speaking all His tasks are in every sense attributed to His spirit, androgynous both male and female, even when manifested in the flesh, AS FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S WORK, IT IS HIS SPIRIT WHICH GIVES LIFE/EXISTENCE TO ALL OF HIS WORK IN CREATION.

This is well depicted first in Adam which though AFTER HE SINNED he lived in the flesh for God he was DEAD IN HIS SPIRIT, and then in Jesus on the cross which though He died in His flesh, He lived in His Spirit! well asserted in

1Peter 3:18 Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God,

being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit,

John4:28 But the hour cometh, and now is,

when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth.

For the Father ALSO seeketh such to adore him.

In the above Jesus simply meant that for one to adore God in the truth, HE MUST LIVE SPIRITUALLY IN CHRIST “THE TRUTH” not in the temple, like the Hebrews use to do, THE FACT THAT THERE IS NO HEBREW TEMPLE OF STONES ANYMORE, BUT TEMPLES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN HUMANS AS CHRISTIANS, THOUGH THEY STILL HAVE TO LEARN TO LIVE YET IN

CHRIST, THE TRUTH,

Now from the above, we are more than certain that WHEN WE READ  the Bible, throughout, we must not look at it from the carnal mind which is not of God,

but from the spiritual mind which is of God!

1Corinthians 1 AND I, brethren, could not speak to you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal.

As unto little ones in Christ. 2I gave you milk to drink, not meat; for you were not able as yet. But neither indeed are you now able; for you are yet carnal. 

Gadam, the Hebrew Bible was written FOR THE CARNAL MINDED PEOPLE, They were ALL SPIRITUALLY DEAD. Moses’ law was PRECISELY for this kind of people, in order to introduce them and prepare them for the spiritual life yet to be introduced by

JESUS, IN HIMSELF and HIS FATHER’S GOSPEL.

NOW FROM THEN ON THE FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING, AS

JESUS REDEEMED HUMANITY IN THE FLESH AND BROUGHT TO FUTILE THE OLD COVENANT THROUGHOUT.

Acts 3:22 For Moses said: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me:

him you shall hear according to all things whatsoever he shall speak to you.

23And it shall be, that EVERY SOUL which will not hear that prophet,

shall be destroyed from among the people.

NEVERTHELESS, the spiritual message IN THE OT. is more than hidden, SINCE GOD IS A SPIRIT HIDDEN AND INVISIBLE. THE FACT THAT HE SENT HIS SON TO REVEAL HIM.

Exodus 3:15 And God said again to Moses: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel:

The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,

hath sent me to you:

This is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. 

DON’T TELL ME THAT GOD’S NAME IS THE ABOVE UNLESS YOU GET THE SPIRITUAL MESSAGE HIDDEN IN IT!

WHY, GOD, ONLY MENTIONED THREE OF SO MANY PATRIARCHS?

WHY THESE THREE PATRIARCHS WERE BORN MYSTERIOUSLY ONE MORE THAN THE OTHER BY GOD’S INTERVENTION?  I mean Abraham’s birth is the most mysterious, as the FIRST patriarch to represents GOD THE FATHER, the SPIRIT element of the eternal covenant, the friend of God! Are you in the position to reveal Abraham’s birth and his childhood from THE JEWISH LITERATURE? Isaac is the second less mysterious, though reading Genesis always through THE LIGHT from the Holy Spirit, we become aware that Isaac is more the SON OF GOD than the son of Abraham, considering that both Sarah and Abraham were useless regarding sex, who represents THE HOLY GHOST, the SOUL element of the eternal covenant, the fact that sex was not involved.  Jacob’s birth is the least mysterious, and we have more detail regarding his conception and birth, which it is evidently clear that Jacob represents JESUS, the SON OF MAN, THE FLESH element of the eternal covenant the fact that JACOB is the actual father of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

What did Jesus mean in the above with “THE GOD OF THE LIVING” Read hereunder:

1John 1:5 And this is the testimony, that God hath given to us

eternal life.

And this life is in his Son.

12He that hath the Son, hath life.

He that hath not the Son, hath not life.

Now why Our God, is the God of the living ONLY in

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? and also

HIS NAME FOREVER and HIS MEMORIAL UNTO ALL GENERATIONS:

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him. 17And he is before all, and by him all things consist.

Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say to him:

Thus saith the Lord: Israel is my son, my firstborn.

Gadam answer:

FROM GOD’S PERSPECTIVE WHO IS SPIRIT, AND ONLY

HIS SPIRIT GIVES LIFE TO ALL OF HIS WORK EVEN WHEN MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH IN OUR CASE  ISRAEL,

WHO IN THE TRUTH IS GOD’S SON?

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[gadam123]

Hi brother Carmel thanks for your excellent and detailed post on God’s spirit. I think there was some problem in highlighting the words with color. As a Christian I can say Amen to your post above.

You : Gadam, the Hebrew Bible was written FOR THE CARNAL MINDED PEOPLE, They were ALL SPIRITUALLY DEAD. Moses’ law was PRECISELY for this kind of people, in order to introduce them and prepare them for the spiritual life yet to be introduced by

JESUS, IN HIMSELF and HIS FATHER’S GOSPEL

Me: The above is a wild allegation on Hebrew people to whom the God’s word came first right from Abraham. I don’t think they were all spiritually dead as quoted by you. The so called new covenant was again given to Jewish people only. It was introduced long before Jesus.

You: Gadam answer:

FROM GOD’S PERSPECTIVE WHO IS SPIRIT, AND ONLY

HIS SPIRIT GIVES LIFE TO ALL OF HIS WORK EVEN WHEN MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH IN OUR CASE  ISRAEL,
<h2>WHO IN THE TRUTH IS GOD’S SON?</h

Me: The Spirit of YHVH is YHVH Himself…
In the Tanakh, the word ruach generally means wind, breath, mind, spirit. In a living creature (nephesh chayah), the ruach is the breath, whether of animals (Gen 7:15; Psa 104:25, 29) or mankind (Isa 42:5; Ezek 37:5). God is the creator of ruach: “The ruach of God (from God) is in my nostrils” (Job 27:3). In God’s hand is the ruach of all mankind (Job 12:10; Isa 42:5).

In mankind, ruach further denotes the principle of life that possesses reason, will, and conscience. The ruach imparts the divine image to man, and constitutes the animating dynamic which results in man’s nephesh as the subject of personal life. When applied to God, the word Ruach indicates creative activity (Gen 1:2) and active power (Isa 40:13). The Spirit of God also works in providence (Job 33:4; Psa 104:30), in redemption (Ezek 11:19; Ezek 36:26-27), in upholding and guiding his chosen ones (Neh 9:20; Psa 143:10; Hag 2:5), and in the empowering of the Messiah (Isa 11:2; Isa 42:1; Isa 61:1).

In short, as the ruach is to the created nephesh, so the Ruach Elohim is to God Himself, part of God and identified with God. Ruach may be understood as the Author of the animating dynamic of the created order, the underlying Principle of creation, and the One that imparts the nephesh to the entire universe.

Ruach Elohim = The Spirit of God.
References: Gen. 1:2; Gen. 41:38; Exod. 31:3; 35:31; Num. 24:2; 1 Sam. 10:10; 11:6;
16:15f, 23; 18:10; 19:20, 23; 2 Chr. 15:1; 2 Chr. 24:20.
In many of these references note that the Spirit of God “came upon” an individual and
enabled him to speak or act on behalf of YHVH.

Ruach Adonai.
References: Jdg. 3:10; 6:34; 11:29; 13:25; 14:6, 19; 15:14; 1 Sam. 10:6; 16:13,4; 19:9; 2 Sam. 23:2; 1 Ki. 18:12; 22:24; 2 Ki. 2:16; 2 Chr. 18:23; 20:14; Isa. 11:2; 40:7, 13; 59:19; 63:14; Ezek. 11:5; Hos. 13:15; Mic. 2:7; 3:8.
Note: A distinction was made by ancient Jewish authorities between the “Spirit of the Lord” and the Shekhinah, or the (tangible) presence of God. This distinction is made in the Talmud, which gives a list of things found in the first Temple in Jerusalem, but missing in the second Temple. The Shekhinah may have referred to God’s actual dwelling within the Holy of Holies, and God’s presence emanating outward from it in a special way, though this is speculative and not based on the scriptures found directly in the Tanakh.

Comparison of Flesh with Israel and Spirit with Christian believers is purely the interpretation of NT writers. I don’t think Hebrew Bible is incomplete without NT. It is only Christian interpretation. The God Yahweh is all sufficient for his people Israel as per Hebrew Bible and Messiah will be his anointed ruler. But not divine like Jesus.

Peace to you……Adam

[carmel]

HI, Gadam,

ME: Gadam, the Hebrew Bible was written FOR THE CARNAL MINDED PEOPLE, They were ALL SPIRITUALLY DEAD. Moses’ law was PRECISELY for this kind of people, in order to introduce them and prepare them for the spiritual life yet to be introduced by

JESUS, IN HIMSELF and HIS FATHER’S GOSPEL

NOW FROM THEN ON THE FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING, AS

JESUS REDEEMED HUMANITY IN THE FLESH AND BROUGHT TO FUTILE THE OLD COVENANT THROUGHOUT.

YOU: The above is a wild allegation on Hebrew people to whom the God’s word came first right from Abraham.

YES, Gadam, YOU ARE RIGHT! GOD’S “WORD” came FIRST in Abraham!

Let’s start from Abraham, since you are justifying yourself and said that “THE WORD” of God came first from Abraham!

ME: Colossians 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God,

the firstborn of every creature:

17And he is before all, and by him all things consist. 

18And he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, 

THE FIRST BORN FROM THE DEAD

that in all things he may hold

THE PRIMACY: 

DID YOU GET THE MESSAGE? 

Abraham first appears in the Bible in Genesis 11:27, which says that Terah, a descendant of Noah’s son Shem, begets three children: Abram, Nahor, and Haran.

Abraham is  A FIRSTBORN SON called Abram at the moment, which means “the father is exalted.” Abraham, through his sons Ishmael and Isaac, is considered the spiritual father of Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

Now In my Post I wrote:

Exodus 3:15 And God said again to Moses: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel

The Lord God of your fathers, ( Gadam only in these three, God is ACTUALLY our father, WHY???)

the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,

 hath sent me to you:

This is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. 

Gadam, DON’T TELL ME THAT GOD’S NAME IS THE ABOVE UNLESS YOU GET THE SPIRITUAL MESSAGE HIDDEN IN IT!

WHY, GOD, ONLY MENTIONED THESE THREE OF SO MANY PATRIARCHS?

AS HIS MYSTERIOUS NAME FOREVER, AND FOR HIS MEMORIAL UNTO ALL GENERATIONS?

WHY THESE THREE PATRIARCHS WERE BORN MYSTERIOUSLY ONE MORE THAN THE OTHER BY GOD’S INTERVENTION?

 I mean Abraham’s birth is the most mysterious, as the FIRST patriarch to represents

GOD THE FATHER, the SPIRIT element of the eternal covenant, the friend of God!

WHY THE FRIEND OF GOD?

Gadam, I ASKED YOU: Are you in the position to reveal Abraham’s birth and his childhood from THE JEWISH LITERATURE?

Isaac is the second less mysterious, AS A FIRSTBORN,  ALWAYS  KEEP IN MIND BY GOD’S MYSTERIOUS INTERVENTION, as reading Genesis hereunder, always through THE LIGHT from the Holy Spirit,  we become aware that Isaac is more the SON OF GOD than the son of Abraham, considering that both Sarah and Abraham were useless regarding sex, who represents THE HOLY GHOST, the SOUL element of the eternal covenant, the fact that sex was not involved.

Genesis 21:1 And the Lord visited Sara, as he had promised: and fulfilled what he had spoken. 2And she conceived and bore a son in her old age, (ALL IN ONE MOMENT) at the time that God had foretold her. 3And Abraham called the name of his son, WHOM SARA BORN HIM, Isaac. 6 And Sara said:

God hath made a laughter for me:

whosoever shall hear of it will laugh with me. 7And again she said: Who would believe that Abraham should hear that Sara gave suck

TO A SON, whom SHE bore to him in HIS old age.

Jacob’s birth is the least mysterious, and we have more detail regarding his conception and birth, which it is evidently clear that Jacob represents THE HUMAN BODY OF JESUS, the SON OF MAN, “THE WORD” spoken of God made flesh.

THE FLESH element of the eternal covenant the fact that JACOB is the actual father of the twelve tribes of ISRAEL.

Malach 1:2 I have loved you, saith the Lord: and you have said: Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau brother to Jacob, saith the Lord, and

I have loved Jacob, (WHY? What is special about Jacob?)

3But have hated Esau? 

Isaiah:44:1 AND now hear, O Jacob, my servant, and Israel whom I have chosen. 

Now I ask you:

who is Jacob, and who is Israel?

are they TWO or ONE?

TO ME ISRAEL IS ONLY A NAME, A SPIRITUAL NAME OF GOD!

JACOB IS THE MAN BORN IN FLESH OF ISAAC BY GOD’S INTERVENTION THROUGH SEX! THE ONLY ONE THAT WE ARE SURE THAT HE WAS BORN THROUGH SEX!

MORE TO COME

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

 

 

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