Preexistence

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
“not to some “spirit inside of him”.”

Is this all the respect you have for the Holy Spirit of God?
Blasphemy is not far away

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2014,12:02)

Hi MB, 1 Yes. The Spirit said so through Jesus 2. No the Spirit inhabits flesh. Jesus was filled with the Spirit made one with the Spirit. 3. No the Spirit is invisible so as with the unclean spirits the vessel does the speaking. 4. Jesus, one with the Spirit by anointing at the Jordan, being born of Mary is the son of man. 5. Jesus was used by the Spirit within to say these words.  remember the FLESH CONTRIBUTES NOTHING

Nick……. That is absolutely right brother, these blind guides have no clue of what a Spirit is or what it can do, nor how it effect the person it is in, even though the bible is full of examples of the kinds and types of control they have in a person mind and how they effect his life. They can't even admit spirits that spirits can express themselves talking directly through a person it is in. AS PLAIN SCRIPTURES HAVE SHOWN OVER AND OVER.

They do not believe Jesus, when he clearly said, the words he was speaking to us were not HIS WORDS But the word of him that sent him, the do not believe that GOD the FATHER was “IN” Jesus reconciling the whole world unto HIMSELF , if. They even had an inkling of what a Spirit can do, they could easily understand this.

As I have said before, thanks be to God that he has given a few who do understand the truth.

Peace and love to you and yours…………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2014,07:49)

Hi MB, I cannot find SENTIENT BEING in scripture Perhaps I should try your theology books?

yes nick try the bible for a change not men's religion ,

[Wakeup]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 29 2014,14:05)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2014,12:02) Hi MB, 1 Yes. The Spirit said so through Jesus 2. No the Spirit inhabits flesh. Jesus was filled with the Spirit made one with the Spirit. 3. No the Spirit is invisible so as with the unclean spirits the vessel does the speaking. 4. Jesus, one with the Spirit by anointing at the Jordan, being born of Mary is the son of man. 5. Jesus was used by the Spirit within to say these words.  remember the FLESH CONTRIBUTES NOTHING Nick……. That is absolutely right brother, these blind guides have no clue of what a Spirit is or what it can do, nor how it effect the person it is in, even though the bible is full of examples of the kinds and types of control they have in a person mind and how they effect his life. They can't even admit spirits that spirits can express themselves  talking directly through a person it is in.  AS PLAIN SCRIPTURES HAVE SHOWN OVER AND OVER. They do not believe Jesus, when he clearly said,  the words he was speaking to us were not HIS WORDS But the word of him that sent him, the do not believe that GOD the FATHER was “IN” Jesus reconciling the whole world unto   HIMSELF , if. They even had an inkling of what a Spirit can do,  they could easily  understand this. As I have said before, thanks be to God that he has given a few who do understand the truth. Peace and love to you and yours…………….gene

Gene B.

Do spirits have the capability to think?
Do they have a plan of their own?

wakeup.

[gadam123]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2014,12:02)

Hi MB, 1 Yes. The Spirit said so through Jesus 2. No the Spirit inhabits flesh. Jesus was filled with the Spirit made one with the Spirit. 3. No the Spirit is invisible so as with the unclean spirits the vessel does the speaking. 4. Jesus, one with the Spirit by anointing at the Jordan, being born of Mary is the son of man. 5. Jesus was used by the Spirit within to say these words.  remember the FLESH CONTRIBUTES NOTHING

Good post it is…
So Man Jesus had no part in relation to preexistence conversations held in John's Gospel?

[Wakeup]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 29 2014,14:05)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2014,12:02) Hi MB, 1 Yes. The Spirit said so through Jesus 2. No the Spirit inhabits flesh. Jesus was filled with the Spirit made one with the Spirit. 3. No the Spirit is invisible so as with the unclean spirits the vessel does the speaking. 4. Jesus, one with the Spirit by anointing at the Jordan, being born of Mary is the son of man. 5. Jesus was used by the Spirit within to say these words.  remember the FLESH CONTRIBUTES NOTHING Nick……. That is absolutely right brother, these blind guides have no clue of what a Spirit is or what it can do, nor how it effect the person it is in, even though the bible is full of examples of the kinds and types of control they have in a person mind and how they effect his life. They can't even admit spirits that spirits can express themselves  talking directly through a person it is in.  AS PLAIN SCRIPTURES HAVE SHOWN OVER AND OVER. They do not believe Jesus, when he clearly said,  the words he was speaking to us were not HIS WORDS But the word of him that sent him, the do not believe that GOD the FATHER was “IN” Jesus reconciling the whole world unto   HIMSELF , if. They even had an inkling of what a Spirit can do,  they could easily  understand this. As I have said before, thanks be to God that he has given a few who do understand the truth. Peace and love to you and yours…………….gene

1. You believe that jesus is just a man anointed.
2. And he was just carrying the message of God.
3. He only existed since His birth.
4. He was not in existence; before His birth.
5. He was just like any prophet carrying God's message.
6. He is now with God: but not the prophets.
7. In heaven there is God and the man in his throne.
8. Beside me there is no saviour; this can be blotted out.

Psalms 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

So this created man is the breath of God's mouth?
True or false?

Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

So that created man is God's right hand? True or false?

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

This scripture should be blotted out too.
It is against your believe.

Just cherry pick to satisfy your passion.

wakeup.

[GeneBalthrop]

Gadam…………the man Jesus was did not exist tell he came into existence as a second Adam, a flesh and blood human being, who came into existence just as we did, it makes not difference if God manipulated his DNA, he also manipulated Eves DNA or she would have been a CLONE of Adam andNot been a female but a male human.

Jesus was never “MORPHED” from one existence to another existence as these Trinitarians and Preexistence believe. He was an ordinary human being who God anointed with the Holy Spirit which made him a Son of God, because God the father put his Spirit seed into him at the Jordan River , Gods spirit descended from heaven and remained on him just as God told John would happen on the one who would take away the sins man.

All who see The MAN Jesus as a preexisting being of any kind are all false teachers completely blind to the truth of God. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours Adam……………………….gene

[NickHassan]

Hi WU,
Would you prefer another truth?
Perhaps you should write a bible?

But get light on your understandings first

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2014,19:49)

Hi MB, I cannot find SENTIENT BEING in scripture Perhaps I should try your theology books?

It was your phrase, Nick.  You are the one who brought it into the discussion when I said John 1:1 is correctly translated as “a god”.  

But we don't NEED to use that phrase for me to make my point.

My point is that whoever came down from heaven in John 6:38 was not “God”, since he came to do God's will INSTEAD OF his own will, right?  

And that goes against your understanding , which is:  

1.  In the beginning, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  (John 1:1)

2.  The Word is God's Spirit, which came to be IN the flesh man Jesus.  (John 1:14)

3.  It was this very Spirit that spoke the words of John 6 through the flesh man Jesus.

But the one who spoke the words of John 6 couldn't have been “God”, because he came down from heaven to do God's will INSTEAD OF his own will.

1. So, can “God” have two conflicting wills within Himself?  

2. Can God's own Spirit have a different will than God?

3. And finally, can there even BE a different will than God's if there is not a different BEING, who is individual FROM God?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2014,19:51)

Hi MB You say ” HOW do you know the Spirit said so THROUGH Jesus?  John, who wrote that account, attributed those words TO Jesus – not to some “spirit inside of him”. You can carry this argument on with God.

I have no argument against God. His inspired prophet, John, told me JESUS said the words of John 6:38 and 8:58.

I believe that Jesus said those words….. so there is nothing for me and God to argue about.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2014,19:53)

Hi MB, ”  So if the person doing the actual speaking was talking about being SEEN, and spirits are invisible to human eyes, then chances are it WASN'T the spirit saying those words, right?” Did anyone see God when he made several proclamations about His son? Do you think they could not have occurred either??

It's not a matter of “occurring”, Nick. It's a matter of, “Did anyone SEE God when He spoke those words from heaven?”

And the answer is, “No, because God is spirit, and cannot be seen with human eyes.”

So if a person said human beings would SEE him ascend to heaven, it is obvious that the one who said those words was NOT a spirit.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Do you not know how God works through His Spirit?

Acts 2
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

God did the miracles and spoke through him

Jn 14
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

WE will come

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Was it the demon or the man speaking in the examples given?
But you still cannot hear the spirit of God in Jesus?

hmmm

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2014,19:55)

Hi MB …..you are unable to discern the Spirit speaking though Jesus………..

I've already showed you many reasons why it COULDN'T HAVE BEEN the Spirit speaking those particular words through Jesus.

But you “discern” such a thing anyway, due to personal bias.

No one who was there when Jesus said those words “discerned” such a thing, Nick. Not even Jesus' own apostles.

Face it, JESUS is the one they saw ascend back to where he was, so JESUS is also the one who came down from heaven to do God's will.

[mikeboll64]

Nick

Please answer the 3 short and simple questions in the second post on page 574.

(That goes also for Adam and Gene, who gave Nick kudos for a list of answers that only put him FARTHER into the hole he has dug for himself.)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2014,18:13)

Hi MB, Was it the demon or the man speaking in the examples given? But you still cannot hear the spirit of God in Jesus? hmmm

This is the part you don't understand, Nick:

If the words that came out of that man were, Dang, my feet really hurt today…… I'm going to have my wife rub them when I get home, would you STILL think it was THE DEMON who said those words?

Get it?  If the demon told the human beings to “eat of his flesh”, then there would be a problem, because that demon doesn't HAVE any flesh.

If the demon told the human beings that they were about to SEE him jump out of that body, and fly across the sky, then there would be a problem, because that demon can't be SEEN by human eyes.

Your claim that the spirit inside of the man spoke the words in those examples is spot on, and easy to believe because of the words that spirit spoke.

But you're asking me to believe God's own Spirit (God Himself, according to your understanding of John 1:1) had a will of its own, had flesh which is the bread that came down from heaven, and that people would SEE it ascend back to heaven.

Also, your quips about me “hearing the spirit of God in Jesus” are mindless and mundane.  I'll show you why:

Matthew 8:20
Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

Were those particular words uttered by “the spirit of God in Jesus”?  Or did Jesus HIMSELF say those words?

What does the CONTEXT tell you?  I assume that you, Gene, and Adam are all able to get that one right.  Now, if you would only consider the context of John 6 WITHOUT any “personal wish blinders” on, you would come to the same conclusion on that one as you did on the one listed above.

P.S.  I could INSIST that the Spirit of God said the words of Matthew 8:20 – if I wanted to.  And when Nick tried to show me how ludicrous that idea was, I could just keep on INSISTING, and post things like this to Nick:  You still cannot hear the spirit of God in Jesus?

Would that make me right, guys?  Would insulting and demeaning Nick by insinuating that I can hear the Spirit of God in Jesus, and he can't, make Gene and Adam tell me “Great post, Mike!  You are right on, brother!”

Does that scenario sound familiar? Food for thought, fellas.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Could not have been the Spirit?
get real.

Jesus told us it was the case.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You have no understanding about the Spirit and how God uses the Spirit so I do not know why you would prate about it.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
So it could not have been the Spirit speaking through Jesus because the man Jesus said those things?
But he said it was true

Whom should we believe?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
.John 10:38
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

.John 14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

.John 14:11
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake

But you cannot believe the Father's Spirit was in him and doing the works
How clear does it have to be?

[Author]

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