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Quote (2besee @ Feb. 23 2013,06:46) Hi Ed, So, in what way do you believe that Jesus pre-existed as God?
Hi 2Besee,In the way that there was only God.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,06:46) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,06:34) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,05:28) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:21) T, Quote Lk 24:49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.” The “what” is the Spirit and Jesus did not have the authority to send it until he went away, John 16:7.
Kwhat “spirit” are you talking about
T,The one spoken of in John 16:7.
Kyou do not see what you are saying ,and do not understand it neither ,
that what you say his false;
Mt 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
and you have the reason for him to send the comforter to his disciples wrong ;
the comforter was send to them in replacement of him going away and so that they would not feel lost being alone ;this was the true reason
T,Quote It is expedient for you that I go away. Jesus' death and ascension is important.
Quote for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; If Jesus didn't die and ascend then no Comforter would have come.
Quote but if I depart, I will send him unto you. Only when Jesus departs is he able to send the Comforter.
After Jesus departed he told the Eleven that all authority in heaven and on earth was given to him.
When Jesus is given the authority he gains the ability to send the Comforter.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,13:26) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,06:46) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,06:34) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,05:28) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:21) T, Quote Lk 24:49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.” The “what” is the Spirit and Jesus did not have the authority to send it until he went away, John 16:7.
Kwhat “spirit” are you talking about
T,The one spoken of in John 16:7.
Kyou do not see what you are saying ,and do not understand it neither ,
that what you say his false;
Mt 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
and you have the reason for him to send the comforter to his disciples wrong ;
the comforter was send to them in replacement of him going away and so that they would not feel lost being alone ;this was the true reason
T,Quote It is expedient for you that I go away. Jesus' death and ascension is important.
Quote for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; If Jesus didn't die and ascend then no Comforter would have come.
Quote but if I depart, I will send him unto you. Only when Jesus departs is he able to send the Comforter.
After Jesus departed he told the Eleven that all authority in heaven and on earth was given to him.
When Jesus is given the authority he gains the ability to send the Comforter.
Kdo you not feel that you have to lie to explain your opinion
you do not show scriptures because you know you twisting and lie,or are you testing me if you gamble on my ignorance of the scriptures
I do hope you bring your view into the truth ,
Jn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Jn 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.and NO,it is not his dead that means his “going away “”read the last verse I quoted Jn 16;7 Jesus says specifically THAT HE WILL SEND INTO THEM ” CAN YOU READ THAT
YES AND HE DID NOT SEND IT BEFORE THE PENTECOST,WEN THEY ALL WERE INSIDE THE UPPER ROOM RIGHT
YESWhen he had said this, he breathed on them and told them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive people’s sins, they are forgiven. If you retain people’s sins, they are retained.”
John 20Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 23 2013,16:27) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 23 2013,06:46) Hi Ed, So, in what way do you believe that Jesus pre-existed as God?
Hi 2Besee,In the way that there was only God.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Ed,
So you believe that Jesus WAS the Father?
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,13:21) this his why God SEND HIS ONLY SON DOWN TO EARTH TO PAID THE PRICE TO SAVE CREATION MADE THROUGH HIM ,THIS IS WHY IT SAYS ,HE CAME TO HIS OWN BUT THEY DID NOT RECOGNIZE HIM ,;;THIS HIS WHY CHRIST SAID HE COMES FROM THE FATHER,;THIS IS WHY CHRIST SAID THAT HE WILL RETURN TO HIS FATHER IF HE RETURN HE MUST HAVE COME FIRST ;;CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS [/b]THE WORD ” OF GOD HIS CHRIST JESUS THAT CAME DOWN TO SAVE US FROM THE DEVIL,
IF YOU CAN NOT SEE AND UNDERSTAND THIS YOU HAVE NOT COME TO UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURES BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE YOU KNOW BETTER THAN GOD HIMSELF ,
I trusted in God when I asked the question regarding John 1:1 in prayer, I did not lean on my own understanding.
I am sorry to tell you but i believe everything that you wrote here, the only difference is that I believe the Son to be the Holy Spirit not some little god, as you do.
See where the issue is?
Everything that you say I believe, just in a different way.
Holy Spirit = Son of God.
Jesus = Son of God.Holy Spirit = God's own Spirit.
Jesus = The second Adam.If I have anything wrong it would be that Jesus was the Holy Spirit dressed in flesh, and I am somehow mixing it up. But I will be shown.
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 23 2013,19:46) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 23 2013,16:27) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 23 2013,06:46) Hi Ed, So, in what way do you believe that Jesus pre-existed as God?
Hi 2Besee,In the way that there was only God.
God bless
Ed J
Hi Ed,So you believe that Jesus WAS the Father?
Hi 2Besee,No, Jesus was part of God.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgAnyway, as for this topic — obviously “in the flesh” has to do with the beliefs of the early Gnostics, and those beliefs 'crept into the church'.
What i think I will do, is start up a bit of a study on the beliefs of the early Gnostics — according to the Apostolic writings.Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 23 2013,22:11) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 23 2013,19:46) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 23 2013,16:27) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 23 2013,06:46) Hi Ed, So, in what way do you believe that Jesus pre-existed as God?
Hi 2Besee,In the way that there was only God.
God bless
Ed J
Hi Ed,So you believe that Jesus WAS the Father?
Hi 2Besee,No, Jesus was part of God.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Ed,
In what way was Jesus a part of God, according to you.
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2013,18:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,11:12) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2013,16:20) Hi Mike, Jesus preexisted as God.
Hello Eddy,1. Do you believe Jesus was God Almighty when he dwelled on earth?
2. Do you believe Jesus is God Almighty right now?
Hi Mike,1) No
2) NoGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
So then you believe God Almighty BECAME someone who WASN'T God Almighty anymore?Quote (2besee @ Feb. 21 2013,18:23) How do you not know that Jesus “coming in the flesh” does not mean as a man who was able to sin, but did not?
Well, we know from tons of other scriptures that speak of the pre-existence of Christ.And we can also have a pretty good guess just from the words, “has come in the flesh”.
Is that said about anyone else in scripture? Would you say, “Moses has come in the flesh” to convey the thought that Moses was a normal human being like everyone else?
I seriously doubt it. That's why I've asked you guys for a published statement from ANYWHERE that uses the phrase, “has come in the flesh” to describe a normal human being who had never been anything but flesh.
None of you has yet to produce one.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 23 2013,22:45) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 21 2013,18:23) How do you not know that Jesus “coming in the flesh” does not mean as a man who was able to sin, but did not?
Well, we know from tons of other scriptures that speak of the pre-existence of Christ.And we can also have a pretty good guess just from the words, “has come in the flesh”.
Is that said about anyone else in scripture? Would you say, “Moses has come in the flesh” to convey the thought that Moses was a normal human being like everyone else?
I seriously doubt it. That's why I've asked you guys for a published statement from ANYWHERE that uses the phrase, “has come in the flesh” to describe a normal human being who had never been anything but flesh.
None of you has yet to produce one.
Mike,
Gene is right I believe. The reason that John used the words “come in the flesh” is due to the Gnostics who believed that Jesus was only a “Ghost” or a 'spirit' and also they believed (I think) that Jesus was raised from the dead as a “Ghost” or a 'spirit' and therefore denied the flesh.
Anyway, I am at the moment researching “Gnostics” and what they believed in the earliest times of the church.
I am making a thread, but it is only for what I find out – not for discussion, yet.It is in the top category, “writings”.
Quote None of you has yet to produce one.
Is this true. Why is that? At least give an explanation as to why others are never mentioned as coming in the flesh. If you cannot, then at least look into your own heart and mind and ask why.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 23 2013,20:45) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 21 2013,18:23) How do you not know that Jesus “coming in the flesh” does not mean as a man who was able to sin, but did not?
Well, we know from tons of other scriptures that speak of the pre-existence of Christ.And we can also have a pretty good guess just from the words, “has come in the flesh”.
Is that said about anyone else in scripture? Would you say, “Moses has come in the flesh” to convey the thought that Moses was a normal human being like everyone else?
I seriously doubt it. That's why I've asked you guys for a published statement from ANYWHERE that uses the phrase, “has come in the flesh” to describe a normal human being who had never been anything but flesh.
None of you has yet to produce one.
Mike………That simply is not true we have quoted many many scriptures that Show Jesus was a Person who came through Human Origins, all the Prophets including Moses said he would come from among his broethern the Israelites, and we have produce scriptures where God said he would come from the roots of Jesse, and many other scriptures, Now you come up with this garbage we never Produced ONE.So Show us ONE SCRIPTURE, that say Jesus “PREEXISTED” his Berth as a SENTINEL BEING of ANYKIND and show us of Just one of his “PREEXISTENCE” Activites, or Perhaps His “PREXISTENT” name maybe you can find that somewhere , infact show us the very word “PREEXISTED” in any scripture. Show us a “SPECIFIC STATEMENT”, Mike, you or T8.
peace and love to youandn yours……………………………gene
2besee………Yes the Gnostioc's believed Jesus was a Ghost who desgusied himself as a Human being, but really was a God who was sent out into the earth from the place of the Gods to straighten out the mess here. This was the First major false teaching that was infecting the Church and John and Paul fought against it and kept it in bay until their deaths and it took root in the church and finally became the main church teaching at the council of Necia in 325 AD>
It was so important that all true Beliver understood Jesus came into being as a Flesh and Blood Person and was not some God from some past existence desgusied as a human being, they fought it vigioresly, but in the end they died and the church lost the battle completely in 325 AD When emerged full blown this concept, of a “PREEXISTENT” God Jesus, sent to straighten out the earth. Paul said this “Mystery of Iniquity” was alread in their Midst and would emerge when the restrainers were taken away, those restrainers were the true Christians and apostles Like Paul and John and early church Fathers.
John defenitly meant that Jesus came into His only existence ,as a flesh and blood Man, and all who did not believe that were and are Antichrists. IMO
2besee………I am glad you are researching this better, it will help you come to see I believe more, what i was talking about in 2Ths 2 , about the Man of Sin not being a real Man but a “LIE” about Jesus Himself being a GOD. I believe you will come to see there is no real Man of Sin, but only a false IMAGE of Jesus created by the Gnostic's And others,This is the LIE Paul was talking about, I know you don't see that now brother but i do believe the Spirit will lead you to see it in time.
Peace and Love to you and yours………………………………………..gene
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 23 2013,14:52) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,13:21) this his why God SEND HIS ONLY SON DOWN TO EARTH TO PAID THE PRICE TO SAVE CREATION MADE THROUGH HIM ,THIS IS WHY IT SAYS ,HE CAME TO HIS OWN BUT THEY DID NOT RECOGNIZE HIM ,;;THIS HIS WHY CHRIST SAID HE COMES FROM THE FATHER,;THIS IS WHY CHRIST SAID THAT HE WILL RETURN TO HIS FATHER IF HE RETURN HE MUST HAVE COME FIRST ;;CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS [/b]THE WORD ” OF GOD HIS CHRIST JESUS THAT CAME DOWN TO SAVE US FROM THE DEVIL,
IF YOU CAN NOT SEE AND UNDERSTAND THIS YOU HAVE NOT COME TO UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURES BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE YOU KNOW BETTER THAN GOD HIMSELF ,
I trusted in God when I asked the question regarding John 1:1 in prayer, I did not lean on my own understanding.
I am sorry to tell you but i believe everything that you wrote here, the only difference is that I believe the Son to be the Holy Spirit not some little god, as you do.
See where the issue is?
Everything that you say I believe, just in a different way.
Holy Spirit = Son of God.
Jesus = Son of God.Holy Spirit = God's own Spirit.
Jesus = The second Adam.
2beealright
Quote I am sorry to tell you but i believe everything that you wrote here, the only difference is that I believe the Son to be the Holy Spirit not some little god, as you do. so be good to me ;and show me ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THAT CHRIST JESUS ” HIS “” THE HOLY SPIRIT
OR SHOW ME ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS “” THE SON OF GOD /MAN “”HIS THE HOLY SPIRIT “”
IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE SINGLE CLUE TO BACK YOU UP ,YOU ARE IN ERROR AND SO YOUR BELIEVE WOULD BE WRONG ,
AS FOR ;
Quote I trusted in God when I asked the question regarding John 1:1 in prayer, I did not lean on my own understanding. THIS CAN ONLY BE TRUE IF YOU HAVE FULL OF TRUE KNOWLEDGE IN YOUR MIND,HEART,AND ACTIONS,OTHERWISE YOU ARE MISLEAD BY YOUR OWN MIND,AND THE DECEIVED HEART OF YOURS, THIS IS THE TRUTH .
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2013,18:36) Hebrews 2:14
King James Version (KJV)14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
The scripture you posted compliments the OP scripture I started the thread with, Kerwin.The green “are partakers” in your scripture is the Greek word “koinoneo” – which refers to people sharing a common thing. Ie: Human beings all naturally share a flesh and blood nature.
The maroon words “took part”, on the other hand, are the Greek word, “metecho” – which means “to BECOME a partaker”.
There is a reason Paul used two different words – one that refers to a common thing that all people share, and another one that refers to someone who was not naturally a partaker in that thing, but BECAME a partaker.
Think about how perfectly your scripture aligns with John's words, “has COME in the flesh”.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2013,22:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,06:06) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2013,14:00) T8, If Jesus came in the flesh then he did not transform to flesh.
The spirit being Jesus Christ was transformed by God into the flesh being Jesus Christ.That being the case, we can say Jesus BECAME flesh. We can say Jesus WAS MADE flesh. We can say Jesus “has come in the flesh”. And we can say Jesus was transformed from spirit to flesh.
Your point is a non-point, Kerwin.
Mike,I hear you tell us that you both believe the caterpillar was made a butterfly and that the caterpillar comes in a butterfly.
The bottom line is that teaching makes “comes in” equivalent to “was made”.
Kerwin,You are playing word games, because that is all you have. Please answer the following questions honestly and DIRECTLY:
IF you were to accept that Jesus existed as a spirit being (in the form of God) BEFORE being made in the likeness of a human being, could the following things be said of him:
1. The spirit entity Jesus BECAME flesh? YES or NO?
2. The spirit entity Jesus WAS MADE flesh? YES or NO?
3. The spirit entity Jesus HAS COME IN THE FLESH? YES or NO?
4. The spirit entity Jesus WAS TRANSFORMED FROM SPIRIT BEING TO FLESH BEING? YES or NO?
If you are a man in search of truth, just answer all four with a simple YES or NO. If, however, you are a man more interested in his own personally conceived doctrine than in truth, post a bunch of crap designed to avoid answering those direct questions.
(Which choice will Kerwin make?)
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