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2besee……..The Gnostic's were a sect of the early church and preached that Jesus was sent from the pelora of the Gods to straighten out what the first God messed up. They were the first to come up with the doctrine of Jesus being a GOD Himself instead of God coming into him by way of the “ANOINTING” Spirit. They believed Jesus was just disguised as a man but he really was a God. This was the first break away from traditional teachings of the true church. The apostles fought against it vigorously and that's why I believe John was lead to write those scripture, because taking Jesus flesh existence away and making Jesus a preexisting (spirit being) takes away from GOD coming into the man Jesus as the CHRISTOS therefore he termed the phrase Antichrists or “ANTI-CRESTOS” , that term is not anti-Jesus , but anti-Christo's .
This is what Paul termed as the “mystery of iniquity” that he said already existed and would come from the .”Mideast” of the church and it did from members who called themselves GNOSTIC'S. This teaching took root and after the apostles Died it grew and finely turned into the DOCTRINE OD THE TRINITY in 325 AD. Much like a virus it has infected nearly all Christendom. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Mike …….Your answer is in what I wrote to 2besee above., your confusing the words Anti-Christ with Anti-Jesus , can you see the difference Mike? Christo's is the anointing , Jesus is the man who had the anointing in him. The only ones who are Antichristos are those who believed Jesus was a God preexisting spirit being or little god as in you case.
Peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
The words John wrote were, anyone not believing that JESUS CHRIST has COME IN THE FLESH is the antichrist.
Your answer is a “non-answer”. Now, please DIRECTLY answer both of the questions from my last post.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 16 2013,06:15) Hi Kerwin,
The Word became flesh. The Root (The Son according to His divinity) through the stump (Jesse's geneology) produced a shoot (the Son became flesh). He remained the Root and also became the Shoot.
Lightenup,Are you claiming that only Jesus' flesh was conceived in Mary's inner parts while his soul, that was divine, already existed?
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 16 2013,12:43) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 16 2013,06:15) Hi Kerwin,
The Word became flesh. The Root (The Son according to His divinity) through the stump (Jesse's geneology) produced a shoot (the Son became flesh). He remained the Root and also became the Shoot.
Lightenup,Are you claiming that only Jesus' flesh was conceived in Mary's inner parts while his soul, that was divine, already existed?
kYES THAT HIS WHAT SCRIPTURES ARE SAYING ;this is why Mary was a surrogate mother ,
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 16 2013,05:48) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2013,14:42) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2013,12:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2013,08:13) So then, “has come in the flesh” just means he was a human being? Why not just say that, Kerwin? Or just say, “#1”?
Please stop being “mysterious”, and DIRECTLY answer my question, okay?
Mike,In order to conclude that I would evidence that is not in that particular Scripture.
Jesus came as a man because other scriptures state he did. He is not an angel in human flesh.
K and GYou see with your believes you now have to interpret many scriptures in what they mean ,and so can not be taken at face value,
And this is wrong ,if everyone that has a believe interprets the scriptures in his own way then what
Well that is why we have all those religions sects ,and they deny the coming of the Christ into the flesh from heaven and so are Antichrist as John so said ,Reading the bible and then change what is written is NOT believing what is written that simple.
T and all,First you claim Jesus was made flesh and now you claim Jesus came in the flesh. So which is it? Did Jesus come in the flesh or was he made flesh?
K1TI 3:16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness:
He who was , revealed in the flesh
Was vindicated in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory.1JN 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
2JN 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
Jn 1:6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John.
Jn 1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.
Jn 1:8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
Jn 1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.(Jesus Christ)Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 16 2013,16:31) 2besee……..The Gnostic's were a sect of the early church and preached that Jesus was sent from the pelora of the Gods to straighten out what the first God messed up. They were the first to come up with the doctrine of Jesus being a GOD Himself instead of God coming into him by way of the “ANOINTING” Spirit. They believed Jesus was just disguised as a man but he really was a God. This was the first break away from traditional teachings of the true church. The apostles fought against it vigorously and that's why I believe John was lead to write those scripture, because taking Jesus flesh existence away and making Jesus a preexisting (spirit being) takes away from GOD coming into the man Jesus as the CHRISTOS therefore he termed the phrase Antichrists or “ANTI-CRESTOS” , that term is not anti-Jesus , but anti-Christo's . This is what Paul termed as the “mystery of iniquity” that he said already existed and would come from the .”Mideast” of the church and it did from members who called themselves GNOSTIC'S. This teaching took root and after the apostles Died it grew and finely turned into the DOCTRINE OD THE TRINITY in 325 AD. Much like a virus it has infected nearly all Christendom. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Hi Gene, I am just reading Wikipedia now.
So far, here are some points. Quote:“Early Gnostics:
They saw the material world as created through an intermediary being (demiurge) rather than directly by God. In most of the systems, this demiurge was seen as imperfect, in others even as evil. Different gnostic schools sometimes identified the demiurge as Adam Kadmon, Ahriman, El, Saklas, Samael, Satan, Yaldabaoth, or Yahweh.
Jesus is identified by some Gnostics as an embodiment of the supreme being who became incarnate to bring gnōsis to the earth. Others adamantly deny that the supreme being came in the flesh, claiming Jesus to be merely a human who attained divinity through gnosis and taught his disciples to do the same.
The English term “Gnosticism” derives from the use of the Greek adjective gnostikos (“learned”, “intellectual”, Greek γνωστικός)
“knowledge falsely so-called”
“intellectual” (gnostikos)
Actually, I am not going to trust Wikipedia because anyone can edit that and I think this is important, so will take others advice this time.
Trying to find a reliable truthful source is difficult – will try though.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 16 2013,15:23) The words John wrote were, anyone not believing that JESUS CHRIST has COME IN THE FLESH is the Antichrist. Your answer is a “non-answer”. Now, please DIRECTLY answer both of the questions from my last post.
Mike………..WE know Jesus “the Christ” did come into existence as a “FLESH” being just as we did through a berth process from a mother. What my point was, John did not say anti= Jesus, now did he , He said Anti=Christ meaning against the anointing, were those who did not believe the Flesh born man Jesus was Anointed with Holy Spirit from God after he came into existence, as a FLESH Man.That was the Gnostic's who orginially taught that. They did not believe Jesus came from the FLESH and was then Anointed , they belived He was already a Spirit being who preexisted with the Gods as a God. So they were Anti-Christs.
Those who place Jesus as a Born god as you do fail to understand God was dealing “IN” a Flesh born Man from the human race born EXACTLY as WE ARE, It makes no differenc how God minuplated the DNA that changes nothing, but his Physical apearence only, he was not some preexistence Being “Morphed” into a physical body as you persume.
The mystery of Godleness was how God was “IN” the Man Jesus, not about his Human Berth into existences. No scripture shows us any preexistence Jesus as born into a Flesh Body, if there is then produce it.
Jesus said over and over He was a SON OF MAN, and he is a SON OF GOD , exactly as we can be also. There is no Difference between the man Jesus and US. Your teaching of a Different Jesus who cannot be IDENTIFIED with the Rest of Humanity in EXACTLY the same way, is a false teaching.
Not only does it work to destroy the work of Jesus as a “flesh human being but the work of God who through the Anointing SPIRIT was In Him, a Plain and ordinary Humble Human Being who did not give up his past Glory he had, to die and reappear in flesh and die again, and regain that glory again as you falsely presume Mike.
The Jesus you are putting foth is not the Jesus written of in scriptures Mike. He was a PURE HUMAN BEING from the ROOT stock of JESSE and came through the LINAGE of KING DAVID Just as he said he was> IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Mike…..1…If i said Jesus came from Mary his mother would you bleiieve that? Yes or No Please.
2…If i said his linage is listed in scriptures would you believe that? Yes or No . Please
3…If is said scripture tells us Moses and the Prophets know where he would come from would you believe it? Yes or No. Please
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………gene
G
Quote .1…If i said Jesus came from Mary his mother would you bleiieve that? Yes or No Please. 2…If i said his linage is listed in scriptures would you believe that? Yes or No . Please
3…If is said scripture tells us Moses and the Prophets know where he would come from would you believe it? Yes or No. Please
1) what you mean CAME from Mary
does a women without a man produce any children 2) what linage “Jesus “? but the linage his from Joseph his step father no
? or Mary the women that give him birth right 3) Ro 16:25 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,
1Co 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
Eph 1:9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,
Eph 3:3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly.
Eph 3:4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
Eph 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
Eph 3:9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
Eph 5:32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church.
Eph 6:19 Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel,
Col 1:26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints.what you think Gene ,do those scriptures agree with you if you say “yes “to your own question
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 16 2013,17:15) Actually, I am not going to trust Wikipedia because anyone can edit that and I think this is important, so will take others advice this time.
Trying to find a reliable truthful source is difficult – will try though.
2beesee,Wikipedia has been shown by studies to be as reliable as other encyclopedias on certain subjects. They tend to put warnings on debatable subjects. They also use citations. It is a hearsay source as are all newspapers and other every other encyclopedia.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 16 2013,13:07) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 16 2013,05:48) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2013,14:42) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2013,12:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2013,08:13) So then, “has come in the flesh” just means he was a human being? Why not just say that, Kerwin? Or just say, “#1”?
Please stop being “mysterious”, and DIRECTLY answer my question, okay?
Mike,In order to conclude that I would evidence that is not in that particular Scripture.
Jesus came as a man because other scriptures state he did. He is not an angel in human flesh.
K and GYou see with your believes you now have to interpret many scriptures in what they mean ,and so can not be taken at face value,
And this is wrong ,if everyone that has a believe interprets the scriptures in his own way then what
Well that is why we have all those religions sects ,and they deny the coming of the Christ into the flesh from heaven and so are Antichrist as John so said ,Reading the bible and then change what is written is NOT believing what is written that simple.
T and all,First you claim Jesus was made flesh and now you claim Jesus came in the flesh. So which is it? Did Jesus come in the flesh or was he made flesh?
K1TI 3:16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness:
He who was , revealed in the flesh
Was vindicated in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory.1JN 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
2JN 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
Jn 1:6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John.
Jn 1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.
Jn 1:8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
Jn 1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.(Jesus Christ)
T,You did not answer my question. You are interpreting Scripture to conflict with itself.
Since Jesus comes in the flesh he was not made into flesh, as that is contradictory, but instead dwells in the body that is descended from David. That body was conceived in Mary by the power of God acting through the Holy Spirit.
So do you confess Jesus came in the flesh or do you confess he was made flesh?
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 17 2013,08:04) Kerwin thanks, I will continue to 'investigate'.
This is really interesting.
K
Quote T, You did not answer my question. You are interpreting Scripture to conflict with itself.
Since Jesus comes in the flesh he was not made into flesh, as that is contradictory, but instead dwells in the body that is descended from David. That body was conceived in Mary by the power of God acting through the Holy Spirit.
So do you confess Jesus came in the flesh or do you confess he was made flesh?
————–
first ;what it mean CAME IN THE FLESH
secondly : what does it mean ; revealed in the fleshthird : what does it mean : has come in the flesh
forth; what does it mean ;became flesh and made his dwelling among us
fifth ; what does it mean ; who came from the Father
sixth ;what this mean ; though the world was made through him,???
seven; what does it mean ;Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh
would you say that, came,became,come,coming,and that “THOUGH THE WORLD WAS MADE THROUGH HIM ” means that he just was like you and me
please answer all the questions one by one ,each is taken from scriptures ;thanks
T
Quote first ;what it mean CAME IN THE FLESH
secondly : what does it mean ; revealed in the fleshthird : what does it mean : has come in the flesh
It seems reasonable that being in the flesh is the same as being in the body and that is speaking of a person's soul that is in the tent of their body.
The Word was not a being transformed into Jesus' flesh but never the less was made flesh in that the Word was made known in the flesh of Jesus.
Jehovah, employing his power, caused Jesus to be conceived and sent him to pioneer and perfect the gospel in those that believe. In this way Jesus came from above Jehovah is above.
Jesus was created by the Word, as was everything else that was created.
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