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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 15 2011,11:06) Frank4 Yahweh…………………….Don't get discourage by Mike thinking we don't answer his questions, many many here have answered them over and over and He still says the same thing as if those question weren't answered at all, What he is really saying they are not answered his way, the way he wasn't them to be answered. Frank there are others here who do not believe in Jesus' Preexistence also , Kerwin, Paladin, Marty, Martian , and also on, has others through out the years. You have three distinct types of believers here, those who believe Jesus preexisted as GOD and came down to earth in the form of a Man, Those who believe Jesus was not a GOD but a preexisting Angel or demigod or something, They cant tell you what fore sure. These groups compose about 90 % of all so-called Christians today, Then you have a small percent like you and I and some others who do not believe Jesus preexisted his existence on the earth except in the Plan and will of God. There are others here who i believe are coming to the Light of this truth also like Shimmer. And i believe the owner of this site T8 might be reconsidering some of his past beliefs also. Just my opinions.
I believe it is a Blessing from God that He has allowed us to see these truths.
You will get to know the others by following there Posts and jumping in and posting to them. Any way welcome to the site, and remember Jesus said we shall all be salted with Fire and you will get some of that here brother.
Peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………………..gene
Gene,Thank you for letting me know of others here who believe as we do. I will certainly check out their posts out.
To The Opposition,
Nowhere in Scripture am I ever asked to believe and confess the foolish, false, deceptive, and demonic doctrine “Jesus IS God!” nor am I ever asked in Scripture to believe and confess the Trinitarian concept of a “pre-existent Son”. You people seem to believe that it is not “good enough” that I confess and believe that Yahshua is the Messiah the son of the living Yahweh as Scripture clearly asked me to confess and believe, but you seem to insist that I also believe and confess that Yahshua is “God” or “a god” which Scripture never makes any mention that I should confess and believe such foolishness.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 14 2011,18:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 15 2011,10:40) Hi Frank, Are you unable to answer the questions?
Mike,I have answered you questions! BTW! Your avatar fits you well in that you don't even bother to hide in sheep clothing.
Hide? Why would I? I have nothing to hide.You couldn't have possibly answered the questions from my last post to you, because I have only asked them this one time. Please answer them, or at least be man enough to admit that you can't.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 15 2011,12:05) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 14 2011,18:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 15 2011,10:40) Hi Frank, Are you unable to answer the questions?
Mike,I have answered you questions! BTW! Your avatar fits you well in that you don't even bother to hide in sheep clothing.
Hide? Why would I? I have nothing to hide.You couldn't have possibly answered the questions from my last post to you, because I have only asked them this one time. Please answer them, or at least be man enough to admit that you can't.
peace,
mike
Mike,That was my point exactly! You put yourself right out on front street as a wolf!
I simply refuse to give answer to such foolish questions!
Hi Frank,
Did you know that if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice?
By refusing to answer my questions, you have answered a lot of questions for all concerned.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 15 2011,12:19) Hi Frank, Did you know that if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice?
By refusing to answer my questions, you have answered a lot of questions for all concerned.
peace,
mike
Mike,Now you make foolish comments and say I must answer to your foolishness! You can continue in your harassment of me all you want to no avail!
Asking one to explain their understanding of scriptures is not harassment, Frank.
They are simple questions that you can't answer. We all know this now. Enough said, right?
Your decision to not answer them tells me and many others here that you can't answer them. And that makes me know that no matter how hard you cling to your unscriptural doctrine, you won't soon forget that you can't answer simple questions regarding it. And maybe someday, you'll be angry at yourself for believing something you can't even defend scripturally. And just maybe, when that happens, the light will go on for you.
I pray that will be the end result of the simple questions I've asked you, Frank.
peace,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 15 2011,01:25) Frank4Yahweh………………..Welcome brother, you have rightly spoken the truth here, it is refreshing to see others understand this truth also. Indeed Jesus did not Preexist his berth on this earth, He only existed in the mind and will of GOD and was the Prophesied Messiah to come by Moses and others prophets of God. You have presented it right brother.
Gene, have you ever thought that it is actually this doctrine that exists in your mind?There are just too many scriptures that you have to ignore and thus I will not be following your lead here.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 15 2011,13:55) Asking one to explain their understanding of scriptures is not harassment, Frank.
Actually it might be harassment if you have something to hide or are not willing to be challenged.Of course if we are students of Christ then we are a student of truth and we would expect such people to be able to give an answer in or out of season as to what they believe.
If a person cannot do that, then they only have an opinion because they cannot be too sure that what they believe is right because there are unknowns that could turn out to prove them wrong.
T8…………You as well as I and all only see in part none of us have all truth or we would not be seeking truth would we. WE have the spirit (intellect) of truth given us by God the Father. That is to say we have the cognizance of truth, but as having all truth of scriptures that is a false assumption on your part. The holy spirit guides us into all truth but that is a process involving study and time, as workmen “Rightly dividing the word of truth”. and your assertions of what you believe as “TRUTH” have to be considered with how much text forcing you use and that involves your opinions and the opinions of those translators who were Trinitarians and Preexistences who as been proven by many scholars to have forced the texts to accommodate there own opinions . brought about by those false teachings over time.
You maintain God used Jesus to create everything but scripture say GOD did it alone and by himself but you take a word in the new testament that can and is translated 70 different way and maintain it was Jesus God created everything that exists through. But Jesus never said that nor any apostle either. So your so-Called Truth is your opinion based on you assumption of contradictory texts. You also move Jesus away from our Identity with Him by saying He was not really a totally Human Being as We are, But Jesus said he was son of Man 80 times in scriptures, you say He was not a decedent of King David, Bit Jesus says He was the decedent of DAVID in REVELATIONS, You and Your co-harts say Jesus was the root David came from, But scripture say Jesus came from the root of Jesse and David did also , So come on T8 don't give us this you have the truth stuff because you are in aliment with scriptures. That simply is not true and you know it, what you and your like minded preexisting friends are doing is simply giving us opinions Brother.
There exists no greater destruction of the word of GOD then the DOCTRINE of the TRINITY and the DOCTRINE of the PREEXISTENCE of JESUS> IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………………………..gene
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 15 2011,17:02) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 15 2011,01:25) Frank4Yahweh………………..Welcome brother, you have rightly spoken the truth here, it is refreshing to see others understand this truth also. Indeed Jesus did not Preexist his berth on this earth, He only existed in the mind and will of GOD and was the Prophesied Messiah to come by Moses and others prophets of God. You have presented it right brother.
Gene, have you ever thought that it is actually this doctrine that exists in your mind?There are just too many scriptures that you have to ignore and thus I will not be following your lead here.
T8…………And have you ever thought your doctrines are the result of your having been influenced by your Past association with Trinitarians who are PREEXISTENCES as you are also. Have you ever though Your teachings or doctrines are simply the result of other false assumption of translators who had a preconceived theology of Jesus' Preexistences. Have you ever though how your doctrines work a work of separation that separates Us fro our Identity with the human being Jesus. Have you ever though about a Man being perceived as something other than a Man and you are working to move Jesus away from all mankind by your preconceived doctrines that are in your mind ?.Fact is T8 you and Mike and anyone here is just giving your opinions as what scripture is actually saying It takes the Spirit of God to decipher if what you and others say is truly scriptural or not. And I believe i Have God Spirit and with that Spiirt i know you and all Trinitarians who (ARE) Preexistences are in error. IMO
gene
Quote And I believe i Have God Spirit and with that Spiirt i know you and all Trinitarians who (ARE) Preexistences are in error. IMO do you not suffer from the devil decease I HAVE,I KNOW,or more commonly known as to much EGO,
because Christ says that the kingdom is given to the humble in heart,
Gene it is not what we believe that is important ,but is what we believe is it coming from God or from the devil (world)the best way to find this out is ask our self questions,like IS WHAT I BELIEVE WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE OR DO I ADD OR INVENTING WORDS TO ADD TO IT SO THAT, WHAT I COME TO CONCEIVE AS TRUTH IS OF MY OWN MAKING,AND SO A LIE ACCORDING TO GODS WRITTEN WORD, SINS THE FEW YEARS i COME TO KNOW YOU GENE,IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU HAVE SOLD YOUR SOUL TO THIS BELIEVE OF YOURS ,
Quote He only existed in the mind and will of GOD you also are a MIND reader .???I find it is better to read things in the word of God as it is written.
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 15 2011,13:55) Asking one to explain their understanding of scriptures is not harassment, Frank. They are simple questions that you can't answer. We all know this now. Enough said, right?
Your decision to not answer them tells me and many others here that you can't answer them. And that makes me know that no matter how hard you cling to your unscriptural doctrine, you won't soon forget that you can't answer simple questions regarding it. And maybe someday, you'll be angry at yourself for believing something you can't even defend scripturally. And just maybe, when that happens, the light will go on for you.
I pray that will be the end result of the simple questions I've asked you, Frank.
peace,
mike
Mike,Continually asking someone questions when they previously had made known to you that they do not wish to discuss anything with you is harassment fool!
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 15 2011,00:02) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 15 2011,01:25) He only existed in the mind and will of GOD………..
Gene, have you ever thought that it is actually this doctrine that exists in your mind?
To ALL,
Following are a few links on Philippians 2:5- that I have featured on *my web page “Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?” for your consideration:
*DISCLAIMER: As mentioned on my other web sites and pages, I do not espouse to all of the beliefs expressed on the reciprocal links I have provided here. My web sites are a venture into the pros and cons of diverse aspects of religious beliefs. I leave it completely up to each individual to decide what is truth and what is not. I am also not responsible for any cost or donation purchases that are made through these links. These reciprocal links are purely for educational and research purpose only. Please view these links at your own discretion.
Jesus Is Not Equal With God
The True Meaning Of Philippians 2:5-6Philippians 2:5-9
By Juan BaixerasThe Kenosis of Jesus Christ
By Gary Butner, Th.D.THE FORM OF GOD
(Philippians 2:5 -)
William M. Wachtel“Being in the Form of God”
(Phil. 2)The Attitude Of The Man Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 ExplainedPhilippians 2:5-11
Humility of MindQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 15 2011,13:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 15 2011,13:55) Asking one to explain their understanding of scriptures is not harassment, Frank.
Mike,Continually asking someone questions when they previously had made known to you that they do not wish to discuss anything with you is harassment fool!
And personal attacks are the devices of those who are in the process of realizing that scriptures don't actually support their man-made doctrines.I receive all kinds of personal attacks here, Frank. Certain people don't like it when I point out the contrasts between what THEY say and what the SCRIPTURES say. You are just the latest in a long list.
Fortunately, there are some here who learn from others, as I have also learned much from the others here. It is for those people, who are reading our discussion with the goal of scriptural truth, that I ask you questions.Frank, at what point in Jesus' life was he so swelled up with pride that he had to empty himself of it?
At what point in your life were you in a different form prior to being made into the likeness of a human being?
peace,
mikeQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 15 2011,15:48) Following are a few links on Philippians 2:5- that I have featured on my web page…………….
The problem with links is, like you, they are unable to answer simple questions.I could link you to a bunch of Trinitarian propaganda as well, Frank. But when an author is allowed to just spout what he wants without addressing the flaws in what he spouts, of what use is it?
Is there an answer to my two questions in any of those links, Frank? If so, do me a solid and post just those answers for me.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2011,08:49) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 15 2011,13:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 15 2011,13:55) Asking one to explain their understanding of scriptures is not harassment, Frank.
Mike,Continually asking someone questions when they previously had made known to you that they do not wish to discuss anything with you is harassment fool!
And personal attacks are the devices of those who are in the process of realizing that scriptures don't actually support their man-made doctrines.I receive all kinds of personal attacks here, Frank. Certain people don't like it when I point out the contrasts between what THEY say and what the SCRIPTURES say. You are just the latest in a long list.
Fortunately, there are some here who learn from others, as I have also learned much from the others here. It is for those people, who are reading our discussion with the goal of scriptural truth, that I ask you questions.Frank, at what point in Jesus' life was he so swelled up with pride that he had to empty himself of it?
At what point in your life were you in a different form prior to being made into the likeness of a human being?
peace,
mike
Mike,Are you referring to me calling you a “fool”? Did not Yahshua refer to some as fools and other choice words that could be construed as personal attacks? Maybe you would like to convey to YOUR “Jesus” the following that you have conveyed to me:
“… personal attacks are the devices of those who are in the process of realizing that scriptures don't actually support their man-made doctrines.”
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2011,08:55) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 15 2011,15:48) Following are a few links on Philippians 2:5- that I have featured on my web page…………….
The problem with links is, like you, they are unable to answer simple questions.I could link you to a bunch of Trinitarian propaganda as well, Frank. But when an author is allowed to just spout what he wants without addressing the flaws in what he spouts, of what use is it?
Is there an answer to my two questions in any of those links, Frank? If so, do me a solid and post just those answers for me.
Mike,I guess I was in error when I posted these links “To ALL” for their consideration. You really do not have to consider anything that I post here. You are an exception!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2011,08:55) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 15 2011,15:48) Following are a few links on Philippians 2:5- that I have featured on my web page…………….
The problem with links is, like you, they are unable to answer simple questions.I could link you to a bunch of Trinitarian propaganda as well, Frank. But when an author is allowed to just spout what he wants without addressing the flaws in what he spouts, of what use is it?
Is there an answer to my two questions in any of those links, Frank? If so, do me a solid and post just those answers for me.
Mike,“You are the weakest LINK! – Goodbye!”
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