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The Word of God is also the begotten of the Father, John 1:14 and God John 1:1, The Word fo God, and KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS…. Not just intellect….
Rev 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
Rev 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” [fn] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
Rev 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Interesting is that Kerwin believes that it is speaking of Jesus in Rev. 19,but not in John …. John wrote both Books…..it is according to Scriptures…Irene.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 03 2011,07:05) Terricca………..A word proceeds forth from the MIND, and the SPIRIT (intellect) that is (IN) the MIND produces thoughts and they are expressed through WORDS, can you at lest understand that?. It work the SAME with GOD the Father his SPIRITS produce intellects in His Mind also and He utters them through us if his Spirit is (IN) a Person, the same way he did Jesus. let this mind be (IN) you that was in Christ Jesus our Lord. If that Mind be in you then that Spirit producing that mind is also that is the LOGOS of GOD, it is GOD'S LOGOS (IN) a PERSON, Just as Paladin Brought out. now if the spirit of him (the logos) that raised Christ from the dead dwell in you (IT) shall also quicken (bring to life) your Mortal (dead) Bodies (ALSO). Just like (IT) did Jesus'. IMO peace and love…………………………………………gene
Genebut God is spirit ,and like you say he as no body or form then does he have a mouth ,like us or ears like us,where is his mind ?
where is his soul?? where is his dwellings ?
when you answer those question call me back
Pierre
Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 02 2011,07:34) Interesting is that Kerwin believes that it is speaking of Jesus in Rev. 19,but not in John …. John wrote both Books…..it is according to Scriptures…Irene.
Hi Irene,And actually, John wrote Revelation way before writing his gospel. So, if John was given a vision of what he knew was Jesus, complete with the name “Word of God” on him, then is it really so hard to understand that John later, when referring to Jesus, used the title “Word” from his vision?
In other words, John LEARNED that Jesus was the Word of God from his revelation/vision. And many years later, when he wrote down his gospel, “Word” was just one of the many titles he applied to Jesus.
It's not really that hard. If the Word in Rev 19 is Jesus, then so is the Word in John 1. Simple, really.
Mike.
I see no reason to address whether or not angels have bodies composed of spirit at this time.
Quote WHAT?!? Created from nothing? What does that have to do with my point? I have no desire to spend my time explaining things I believe you already know but I guess that is necessary in this case.
1) You have stated you believe Jesus is an angel
2) God can create anything and has created some things from nothing.
3) Therefore all angels can be created from nothing.
4)Since God can create angels from nothing, then you can conclude by inference that he can also create angels from anything .
5)As with all angels so with Jesus if Jesus were an angel; which he is not.
6)To go beyond that is speculate as the scriptures I know do not speak of what angels were created from.Quote How can you say that God couldn't have created a FIRST spirit being named Jesus, who was also able to be tempted by evil? God did create angels and they are able to be tempted by evil or Lucifer and his angels would not have fallen. The fact they are tempted by evil means they are not the same kind of being that God is.
As God crated angels there was a first angel unless he created a number of them simultaneously. The details of what happened are not in the scriptures I know and so anything I state beyond listing the possibilities would be speculation.
Jesus Anointed is not an angel as he was created like his brother human beings and not like his angel brothers.
Quote Will you answer the question this time, please? I answered it briefly already. Since you seem not understand my brief answer I expanded it.
Quote When I begot my son, I didn't “divide” myself, Kerwin. And yet there are three human beings where there were two before just like when you divide two pies into three total pieces of pie of 2/3rds the size of each of the original pies.
If you do the same with God then there are two that share the characteristics of God just as your son shares the characteristics of his parents. Teaching God did that is a teaching that begins to sound like the Trinitarian theory of Christology.
Quote I will now make a DIRECT point, and I really want you to DIRECTLY address it: Jesus has been known to not answer a direct point with a direct answer. . He instead chose to give the answer that was needed. Why should those that serve him be expected to act different than their Teacher and Pioneer
Quote Kerwin, are you saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to have brought forth a spirit Son unto Himself? YES or NO? I give a clear answer but the answer is not what you understand. My answer is that God will not do it because it is evil to do so. That fact renders either a yes or no answer to your question irrelevant.
Quote I am not interested in your “riddles” anymore. My riddle is a riddle from scripture which is why I directed you to Romans 6 where the words of my riddle are used. If you understand what that part of Romans 6 teaches then you will understand who it is that is rescued from the power of darkness that rules those that have not partaken of the new creation.
Quote I want you to make DIRECT claims, and show me CLEARLY how the scriptures you quote support those claims. Even though I used the same words of scripture and called them a riddle, you should be able to clearly understand them if you understand the teaching from Romans 6 I directed you to. Romans 6 supports the claim as it is the scripture I chose to base my claim on by using words from it. The same teaching is also in John 8:31-36 and many other scriptures though in other words.
It is those that Jesus has set free from being chained to sin(darkness) and made servants of righteousness(his kingdom) that are the first fruits of the new creation.
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2011,12:10) Kerwin Quote Do you agree that the universe was created by the litteral word of God? I do not know what is the litteral word of Godbecause God his a spirit ,
so could you change your wording ?or tell me what is your understanding of THE WORD OF GOD ?
Pierre
Pierre,The litteral Word of God is to God as the litteral word of a man is to him. A man expresses his litteral word in writting and speach while God uses his litteral word for that and more.
To all………..A word is Just a word, it is the POWER BEHIND those WORDS that really matters. A word is powerless to do any thing except engage thought it's the power to carry out those words that counts. A word is simply an expression of an intellect and nothing more, GODS word expresses his intellect our word express our intellects nothing more nothing less. Power must be connected to carry out those words. Jesus now has both the seven Spirit (INTELLECTS) of GOD with the POWERS (HORNS) to carry them out and will when he returns to rule HIS KINGDOM which is the KINGDOM of DAVID his Father which will be restored on this earth forever. IMO
peace and love to you all………………………………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2011,23:35) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) When I begot my son, I didn't “divide” myself, Kerwin. And yet there are three human beings where there were two before just like when you divide two pies into three total pieces of pie of 2/3rds the size of each of the original pies.
That's just nonsense, Kerwin. A human being does not “divide” or diminish when he brings forth a child. Nor did God diminish each time He brought forth other beings.Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2011,23:35) If you do the same with God then there are two that share the characteristics of God just as your son shares the characteristics of his parents. Teaching God did that is a teaching that begins to sound like the Trinitarian theory of Christology.
Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being………….The Trinitarians believe that this Son of God IS the God he is the Son of. That is ludicrous. But God's Son DOES share characteristics with the One who begot him. Scripture bears this out a number of times.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2011,23:35) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Kerwin, are you saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to have brought forth a spirit Son unto Himself? YES or NO? My answer is that God will not do it because it is evil to do so.
What?
It is “EVIL” for God to beget a Son unto Himself? How so, Kerwin? Explain to me how it is not evil for a human being to have the joy of begetting children, but it is evil for God Almighty to do so.mike
Mike,
Quote That's just nonsense, Kerwin. A human being does not “divide” or diminish when he brings forth a child. Nor did God diminish each time He brought forth other beings. It is God’s power being divided is what I speak of. There is but one God that is worthy to be worshiped because he cannot do evil or even be tempted by evil even though you seem to choose to speculate otherwise.
Quote The Trinitarians believe that this Son of God IS the God he is the Son of. That is ludicrous. But God's Son DOES share characteristics with the One who begot him. Scripture bears this out a number of times. I see no real difference between your polytheist beliefs and the Trinitarians attempts to render their own polytheist beliefs monotheistic. Jesus is not worthy to be worshiped because he can be tempted by evil as he is not the source of righteousness. Jesus is the exact representation of God’s righteousness for Jesus continuously wears the new man and serves as the conduit of God's righteousness and holiness.
Quote Colossians 3
King James Version (KJV)10And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Quote What? It is “EVIL” for God to beget a Son unto Himself? How so, Kerwin? Explain to me how it is not evil for a human being to have the joy of begetting children, but it is evil for God Almighty to do so. There can be but one source of righteousness as a kingdom divided cannot stand.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2011,17:56) I see no real difference between your polytheist beliefs and the Trinitarians attempts to render their own polytheist beliefs monotheistic. Jesus is not worthy to be worshiped because he can be tempted by evil as he is not the source of righteousness. Jesus is the exact representation of God’s righteousness for Jesus continuously wears the new man and serves as the conduit of God's righteousness and holiness.
Kerwin……Right on, Paul even tell us that it was GOD”S “RIGHTEOUSNESS ” at work or being “DEMONSTRATED” (in) AND by the Anointed Jesus. And indeed it was , they simply do not believe that the FATHER was TRULY (IN) Jesus. Reconciling the WORLD unto HIMSELF and that HIMSELF was GOD the Father , not Jesus the Anointed one. Jesus was the first of MANY to be connected Back to GOD from man kind. And all of this was in the Preplanned Will and Purpose of GOD the FATHER> IMOpeace and love…………………………gene
Kerwin,
You go farther off the deep end with every post you make to me. Half of me just wants to walk away from this discussion because of the mazes and diversions you are attempting. But the other half is stubborn, and will not let you walk away from points you've claimed just because you attempt to divert away from them. It is that latter part of me who will answer this post.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2011,00:56)
Quote (mikeboll @ 64) That's just nonsense, Kerwin. A human being does not “divide” or diminish when he brings forth a child. Nor did God diminish each time He brought forth other beings. It is God’s power being divided is what I speak of. There is but one God that is worthy to be worshiped because he cannot do evil or even be tempted by evil even though you seem to choose to speculate otherwise.
I agree that there is one God worthy of our worship. I agree that there is only one Being in existence who cannot do evil or be tempted by it. But what is this talk of power being divided? When the angel of God killed 185,000 Assyrians in one night, did he do so by HIS OWN power? Or is every ounce of power that angel has derived from his God? You act as if God is unable to empower His creations without lessening His own power. Is that what you really think?Don't you know that God has given Jesus great power? What's the difference if He gave him this power after he was raised, or if He gave him this power from the minute He begot him aeons ago?
If God was not “dividing Himself” by giving Jesus power AFTER he was raised, then how could you possibly hope to make the point that God couldn't have given His only begotten Son power before the world was created? Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2011 @ 23:35)
If you do the same with God then there are two that share the characteristics of God just as your son shares the characteristics of his parents. Teaching God did that is a teaching that begins to sound like the Trinitarian theory of Christology.
You said the above in your previous post, and then I showed you Hebrews 1:3. Then you started talking about polytheism and worshipping Jesus. Do you agree with Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus is the exact representation of his Father? Do you agree that Jesus DOES share the characteristics of the Father who begot him?
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2011,00:56)
Quote (mikeboll @ 64) What? It is “EVIL” for God to beget a Son unto Himself? How so, Kerwin? Explain to me how it is not evil for a human being to have the joy of begetting children, but it is evil for God Almighty to do so. There can be but one source of righteousness as a kingdom divided cannot stand.
Okay. I agree with your statement, as Jehovah is the one source of EVERYTHING. Explain to me how that means it would be EVIL for God to beget a son unto Himself. Explain to me how begetting a son would “divide God's Kingdom”. Please start DIRECTLY addressing the points, Kerwin. I've grown weary of your diversion tactics.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 06 2011,03:25) Kerwin, You go farther off the deep end with every post you make to me. Half of me just wants to walk away from this discussion because of the mazes and diversions you are attempting. But the other half is stubborn, and will not let you walk away from points you've claimed just because you attempt to divert away from them. It is that latter part of me who will answer this post.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2011,00:56)
Quote (mikeboll @ 64) That's just nonsense, Kerwin. A human being does not “divide” or diminish when he brings forth a child. Nor did God diminish each time He brought forth other beings. It is God’s power being divided is what I speak of. There is but one God that is worthy to be worshiped because he cannot do evil or even be tempted by evil even though you seem to choose to speculate otherwise.
I agree that there is one God worthy of our worship. I agree that there is only one Being in existence who cannot do evil or be tempted by it. But what is this talk of power being divided? When the angel of God killed 185,000 Assyrians in one night, did he do so by HIS OWN power? Or is every ounce of power that angel has derived from his God? You act as if God is unable to empower His creations without lessening His own power. Is that what you really think?Don't you know that God has given Jesus great power? What's the difference if He gave him this power after he was raised, or if He gave him this power from the minute He begot him aeons ago?
If God was not “dividing Himself” by giving Jesus power AFTER he was raised, then how could you possibly hope to make the point that God couldn't have given His only begotten Son power before the world was created? Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2011 @ 23:35)
If you do the same with God then there are two that share the characteristics of God just as your son shares the characteristics of his parents. Teaching God did that is a teaching that begins to sound like the Trinitarian theory of Christology.
You said the above in your previous post, and then I showed you Hebrews 1:3. Then you started talking about polytheism and worshipping Jesus. Do you agree with Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus is the exact representation of his Father? Do you agree that Jesus DOES share the characteristics of the Father who begot him?
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2011,00:56)
Quote (mikeboll @ 64) What? It is “EVIL” for God to beget a Son unto Himself? How so, Kerwin? Explain to me how it is not evil for a human being to have the joy of begetting children, but it is evil for God Almighty to do so. There can be but one source of righteousness as a kingdom divided cannot stand.
Okay. I agree with your statement, as Jehovah is the one source of EVERYTHING. Explain to me how that means it would be EVIL for God to beget a son unto Himself. Explain to me how begetting a son would “divide God's Kingdom”. Please start DIRECTLY addressing the points, Kerwin. I've grown weary of your diversion tactics.
mike
Good Post Mike, and I agree….Peace IreneThanks Irene,
I'm not sure what Kerwin is doing lately. We start with his claim that God couldn't beget a Son unto Himself. I bring up the fact that God is Spirit, and has brought forth many spirit sons. Then he says that it's only speculation that angels were created out of nothing. What is he talking about? No one even mentioned WHAT angels were created out of.
So I try again to get an answer, and he starts talking about the bodies of angels. Again, what does this have to do with God bringing forth spirit sons?
And now he is claiming it would be evil for God to have begotten a Son unto Himself, and I'm trying to get the “WHY?” out of him, but I'm having a hard time.
He claims that God would have had to divide Himself to beget a Son. And I'm trying to get the “WHY?” of that one answered too, but so far to no avail.
Like I said, I'm just not sure what he's doing right now. Because having a sensible discussion is not it.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 06 2011,11:24) Thanks Irene, I'm not sure what Kerwin is doing lately. We start with his claim that God couldn't beget a Son unto Himself. I bring up the fact that God is Spirit, and has brought forth many spirit sons. Then he says that it's only speculation that angels were created out of nothing. What is he talking about? No one even mentioned WHAT angels were created out of.
So I try again to get an answer, and he starts talking about the bodies of angels. Again, what does this have to do with God bringing forth spirit sons?
And now he is claiming it would be evil for God to have begotten a Son unto Himself, and I'm trying to get the “WHY?” out of him, but I'm having a hard time.
He claims that God would have had to divide Himself to beget a Son. And I'm trying to get the “WHY?” of that one answered too, but so far to no avail.
Like I said, I'm just not sure what he's doing right now. Because having a sensible discussion is not it.
Mike! Your welcome…..Kerwin takes some Scriptures and agrees with them, like
Rev. 19 but not John 1 that makes no sense….He doesn't think God can beget, and Kathi doesn't think Jesus wasn't created….What a mixer of wrong believes….will they ever see what Scriptures say? And what He says God has to divide Himself?? Why, because He begot Jesus?
He created everything else through Jesus from nothing…..In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth out of nothing…..He did not divide Himself for that act…. so why when He created Jesus….makes no sense…..Peace IreneMike,
Quote No one even mentioned WHAT angels were created out of. A point I was making. though you seem not to understand, that it is a paraphrase of the words I used which are “God can make angels from nothing”. No one in scripture ever states that an angelic being became (morphed) into the human being Jesus, much less what such a being was created of.
Quote And now he is claiming it would be evil for God to have begotten a Son unto Himself, and I'm trying to get the “WHY?” out of him, but I'm having a hard time. You are having a hard time because you do not understand that God is the source and that all spirit is not the same.
Consider this scripture.
Quote 1 John 4:16
King James Version (KJV)
16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.Can you understand that a paraphrase of this scripture is that “God is the spirit of Love and those that worship him must worship him in the spirit of Love and truth”.
Since God is love is there any love outside of God? Was Jesus created from the spirit that is love which is God?
Here are what scripture states about Jesus.
Quote John 14:10
King James Version (KJV)10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
So Jesus dwells in God and God dwells in him because the spirit of Love dwells in Jesus Christ. That is what makes him the begotten of God.
That is not what you state your doctrine is. Instead you state that Jesus was created from the Source of the spirit of Love.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 06 2011,14:36)
No one in scripture ever states that an angelic being became (morphed) into the human being Jesus, much less what such a being was created of.
Actually, Phil 2 and John 1 both say this………….among other scriptures. But we are not discussing this issue right now, are we?Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 06 2011,14:36)
You are having a hard time because you do not understand that God is the source and that all spirit is not the same.
Actually, I'm having a hard time because you won't just answer the bloody question. Kerwin, I agree that God is the source of EVERYTHING. Now, tell me in CLEAR WORDS why it would be EVIL for that Source to beget a spirit Son unto Himself.Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 06 2011,14:36)
Since God is love is there any love outside of God?
Are lovers of violence inside God? Does God dwell within lovers of money?Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 06 2011,14:36)
So Jesus dwells in God and God dwells in him because the spirit of Love dwells in Jesus Christ. That is what makes him the begotten of God.
And didn't the Spirit of God dwell in Moses? And after Moses, the seventy elders? And then the many other prophets of God? Were any of these called the “only begotten Son of God”?Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 06 2011,14:36)
That is not what you state your doctrine is. Instead you state that Jesus was created from the Source of the spirit of Love.
Kerwin, were ALL THINGS, including Jesus, created from the Source of all things? OF COURSE Jesus was created by God! Don't you believe this?Kerwin, we need to get down to a Q and A debate. Let's start right now. Answer only the bolded point above in your next response to me. Along with your DIRECT answer, you can ask your own question, and I will answer it in my next response to you. Deal?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 06 2011,11:24) He claims that God would have had to divide Himself to beget a Son. And I'm trying to get the “WHY?” of that one answered too, but so far to no avail.
God bringing brought forth a son from himself, even if it was considered a division, still wouldn't lessen God. Dividing infinite still leaves infinite.That is a good point, t8. But if God divided everytime He brough forth another being, He would be a lot less now than when He started creating.
I didn't divide myself to beget my son, why would God? Also, Kerwin readily acknowledges that God created other spirit sons. I'm trying to find out what he thinks prohibited Jesus from being the FIRST of those spirit sons.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 07 2011,04:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 06 2011,11:24) He claims that God would have had to divide Himself to beget a Son. And I'm trying to get the “WHY?” of that one answered too, but so far to no avail.
God bringing brought forth a son from himself, even if it was considered a division, still wouldn't lessen God. Dividing infinite still leaves infinite.
T8,My argument is that God is divided because creating a being from God would make two Gods and not one.
God is one of a kiind and competition will not serve his righteousness.
I have also pointed out that God can make a being from nothing, or anything, if he so desires.
It is speculation to conclude God made a being from God as Scripture does not state he did.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 07 2011,06:03) That is a good point, t8. But if God divided everytime He brough forth another being, He would be a lot less now than when He started creating. I didn't divide myself to beget my son, why would God? Also, Kerwin readily acknowledges that God created other spirit sons. I'm trying to find out what he thinks prohibited Jesus from being the FIRST of those spirit sons.
Mike,The fact that Jesus was conceived in his his mother's womb just as John the Baptist was conceived in his mother's womb according to Luke 1:36. There were certainly angels before that time.
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