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Nick….If you say the word was Jesus then You must say the word (Jesus) was God. Because it planily say's the word WAS GOD.
what i have seen you do is to defiy Jesus all along by saying he preexisted and he is the word , even though you were given many scriptures and explanations to the contrary.tell me what do you do with were Jesus said “[ thou art the ONLY true GOD] and were it say's the words I am telling you arn't mine, but the words of him who sent Me. if they weren't his words then how could he himself be the word.
By avoiding these trues you are defiying Jesus and when you add in the prexestance issue there is no way you arn't Making Jesus a God.
rather you want to admit it or not, thats what it comes to.gene
Hi Gene,
The one of divine nature who was with God was not the God he was with.
You should not worship the one God sent.
He is the Son of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 26 2007,17:24) Hi Gene,
The one of divine nature who was with God was not the God he was with.
You should not worship the one God sent.
He is the Son of God.
prophecy is a word sent out from GodRev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
I give you my word, that I'm going to bake a big ginger man cookie, that word is nothing but my word, with me, a prophecy, till I make manifest this creation in the effect of vision
And I'll be offended, if you cant tell the difference between me and the ginger man cookie I created?
Hi Jodi,
The greek word for 'in' and 'with' are completely different. Where are you getting this stuff?
'In' the beginning… is not he same Greek word for 'with' god!
Unfortunately, I am not at home right now. I will provide evidence eventually.
Sincerely
Quote (charity @ July 26 2007,17:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 26 2007,17:24) Hi Gene,
The one of divine nature who was with God was not the God he was with.
You should not worship the one God sent.
He is the Son of God.
prophecy is a word sent out from GodRev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
I give you my word, that I'm going to bake a big ginger man cookie, that word is nothing but my word, with me, a prophecy, till I make manifest this creation in the effect of vision
And I'll be offended, if you cant tell the difference between me and the ginger man cookie I created?
Hi charity,
Mary would disagree. She conceived, bore and delivered a son and brought him up in the discipline of God till fit to be anointed and used as a vessel for God's words.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 26 2007,18:13) Quote (charity @ July 26 2007,17:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 26 2007,17:24) Hi Gene,
The one of divine nature who was with God was not the God he was with.
You should not worship the one God sent.
He is the Son of God.
prophecy is a word sent out from GodRev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
I give you my word, that I'm going to bake a big ginger man cookie, that word is nothing but my word, with me, a prophecy, till I make manifest this creation in the effect of vision
And I'll be offended, if you cant tell the difference between me and the ginger man cookie I created?
Hi charity,
Mary would disagree. She conceived, bore and delivered a son and brought him up in the discipline of God till fit to be anointed and used as a vessel for God's words.
This is bizzar…..Holy Mary Mother of GodHAIL MARY: Hail Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed are thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen.
Sinners until death? They speck as they shall never be persuaded, contrary to that which they have believed. they move not
This lot are prepared to die in their pusY'shua Messiah existed in the Spirit of Elohim, before the Word was written down. Everything the Father did from the beginning as we knoe it, was to esteem His Son.
Y'shua Messiah is written all through the Torah and the prophets. Y'shua Messiah came as human flesh to make complete meaning of the Torah and the prophets which is the beginning.
We are to see through the Messiah who the Father is and that only YHWH our Elohim is God. He created us, He can take our life, He can give us eternal life.
Yes, Y'shua Messiah was in the beginning, our heavenly Father made it so, and He did it for us.
Why do you keep going over and over this basic understanding, when life as we know it is soon to be forgotten. We must be ready for our Master's return.
I pray that we will all see the truths that are written for us and that we can be learned enough to be able to go out to the world and teach the “good news”, for the time is at hand.
Something is wrong here. 105 pages of confusion. Someone here is not listening for the Set-apart Spirit. Shhhhh, listen.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 26 2007,17:24) Hi Gene,
The one of divine nature who was with God was not the God he was with.
You should not worship the one God sent.
He is the Son of God.
Nick…..you still avoid what i said it plainly say's (WAS GOD) are defiying Jesus then, whom you say IS THE WORD or not. Which side of the fence are you on, or are you doing a balancing act somewhere in the middle. You can't say Jesus is the WORD and Not Say He wasen't GOD. It Plainly,Planly,Plainly, Plainly, Plainly , (WAS GOD) are you defiying HIM>Please be spicific to the question stop skerting the issues.
thanks…..geneLaurel I said that I was not going to respond to anything written here, but I must say something when you say Set-apart spirit. There is only one Holy Spirit read Ephesians 4:4-6 All other spirits are not from God. And believe me they are all around us. Satan and his demons is God of this world. Hopefully that will end soon. But you are right that this post has gone on to long. Going around in circles is not profitable.
Peace Mrs.IM4Truth
Mrs.IM4TruthQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 27 2007,02:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 26 2007,17:24) Hi Gene,
The one of divine nature who was with God was not the God he was with.
You should not worship the one God sent.
He is the Son of God.
Nick…..you still avoid what i said it plainly say's (WAS GOD) are defiying Jesus then, whom you say IS THE WORD or not. Which side of the fence are you on, or are you doing a balancing act somewhere in the middle. You can't say Jesus is the WORD and Not Say He wasen't GOD. It Plainly,Planly,Plainly, Plainly, Plainly , (WAS GOD) are you defiying HIM>Please be spicific to the question stop skerting the issues.
thanks…..gene
Hi Gene,
“WAS GOD”
has been discussed many times here.
Some even say if the Word WAS GOD the Word still IS GOD because their logic tells them God cannot stop being God.
If the Word WAS GOD and is no longer GOD then the WORD is not the IMMUTABLE GOD of scripture.
God does not change.So the divine being is WITH GOD.
No surprises there as many, even men and angelic beings, are called gods in scripture.
He is the unique monogenes son, the image of God, who was sent into the world.
Do not try to force me into your theological boxes.
Listen to scripture.Quote (IM4Truth @ July 26 2007,10:38) Jodi Thank you for your reply. I just don't understand what you are saying when you say that Jesus of Nazareth was the firstborn. This is a very hard subject and I tell you the truth I don't think it is worth arguing about. Everybody has a opinion of how to study the scripture etc.
It is just like the trinity Doctrine some believe and others don't. Personally I believe because of scriptures given, that Jesus did exist before creation. One can argue this scriptures too
Gen. 1:26 ” Let US make man in our image after our likeness.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.”
verse 17 “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
When I read these scriptures I have asked myself how can God send His Son if He did not existed before He became a Man.
This is my last reply
, because I don't find it profitable to continue. 101 Pages? It is more important to me that I know that He died for us all and we are covered by His Blood.
Peace Mrs.IM4Truth
IM 4 Truth-
Jesus of Nazareth, born of Mary is the one whom is called the firstborn. You take this to mean that Jesus pre-existed in another form, and the Jesus in that form was the firstborn of all creation.You are assuming from the way scripture is worded that Jesus must have pre-existed.
I however, don’t make that assumption, I stay within what is written.
Ro 8:29 –
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family.Col 1:15 – He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
Col 1:18 – He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might come to have first place in everythingIt is entirely true from scripture that Jesus is the beginning of eternal life in Men. The scripture says he is the beginning, and then it says the firstborn from the dead. Jesus is the beginning OF those raised from the dead. Being raised from the dead makes him have first place in everything.
Jesus is the firstborn of WHAT– of the resurrection of the dead into eternal life, and INTO WHAT is he this firstborn of,…. ALL OF CREATION.
No where in Colossians are we told that a pre-existent Jesus was the first thing God created in the beginning of creation.
We are told in Colossians that Jesus is firstborn of the dead, into all of Creation.
Once again this is confirmed in the book of Revelation
Revelation 1:5 – and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood,
Gen. 1:26 ” Let US make man in our image after our likeness.”
You are making an assumption here that the US is referring to Jesus.
I can too make an assumption, which is that the US represents God’s Sons, the angels, however assumptions are not proof. This scripture cannot be used as proof of pre-existence.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.”
verse 17 “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.You say, “When I read these scriptures I have asked myself how can God send His Son if He did not existed before He became a Man.”
Do you also believe because of this scripture that John pre-existed as well?
Jonh 1:6 – There was a man sent from God, whose name was John
You are once again making an assumption that the word 'send' means that he must have pre-existed. This text cannot prove that.
When understanding the bible I make many assumptions as well, I base those assumptions from the scriptures I don’t need to make assumptions from, because none are needed.
In Colossians 1, we are told that Jesus is firstborn of the dead. It does not say that he pre-existed and as that person he was made first before everything else. When I read other scriptures I refer to this one, because my understanding is based without assumption, and is therefore a solid foundation.
“This is my last reply
, because I don't find it profitable to continue. 101 Pages? It is more important to me that I know that He died for us all and we are covered by His Blood.
Peace Mrs.IM4Truth”I can see how you might be tired of arguing, that is very understandable. As for me I don’t think of it as necessarily arguing, but debating to find the truth, which is Greatly Profitable and I believe is what God wants us to do, as long as it can be done in a respectful manner. Once we start going around in circles, yes, then I believe a debate has come to an end, however, I haven’t felt like all members and the discussions between them are at that point yet.
I have asked some questions that have not been answered yet. One question I would really like answered is-
What does it mean that Jesus was the Word, how is it that he acts and is the word, and where in the OT do we see this occur. I want Details. So far all I here in relation to Jesus being the word, is that, that is what he is.
Thanks, and peace to you.
Hi Jodi,
You say
“Jonh 1:6 – There was a man sent from God, whose name was John”The prophet John was indeed sent from God.
Jesus, the monogenes Son, was sent from HEAVEN.Hi Jodi,
Christ is indeed the firstborn from the dead.
It is the will of God that he have the preeminence in all things.
All things came through him and he is the firstborn of creation who was sent into the world.Nick…. GOD said,”i change (NOT), so if he was God he still is God. you cannot seperate the word from God, just like you can't seperate your words from you . Either the word was God and Still is God or it was not and still is not GOD, which is it. make up your mind so we can see what you are really saying. thanks.. gene
Hi Jodi I will try to answer your question
The only one that uses the expression (Word) to describe the Son is John in His gospel.
The reason He titles the Son as the Word is because He was the Spokesman for God.
John 5:37 ” And the Father Himself, who send Me has testified of Me. You have neither heard His Voice at anytime nor seen His Form.”Anytime in the Old Testament when you read
God said, or the LORD said, it was either an Angel or the Word/Son that spoke.
The reason He is referred to as the Word is, He only spoke what the Father told Him to say.
John 8:28 ” Then said Jesus on to them, when ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.”
John 12:49 ” For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which send me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.”The Word/Son of the O.T. is the same Son that became like us in the N.T.
Mrs,IM4Truth
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,07:11) Hi Jodi,
You say
“Jonh 1:6 – There was a man sent from God, whose name was John”The prophet John was indeed sent from God.
Jesus, the monogenes Son, was sent from HEAVEN.
Nick…..Jesus said God was in Heaven, so whats the difference. You constantly refuse to even admit even simple truth.Jesus plainly said the words he was speaking weren't his, so the SIMPLE understanding is He is not the word Himself.
No where does John say the word was Jesus, He only said the word who was GOD the Father was in Him, Not that He was Himself God ot the word, the words he was speaking was God speaking through him, Just like he did the prophets of old and just like He can through anyone if the Father choses to.
yout logic fails on all levels…….gene
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