Preexistence

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 08 2010,21:41)

Hi Mike, Your juggling words again in an attempt to avoid the obvious truth.

No Ed.

You refuse to understand that something OF something is not that thing.

I've showed you that to say the Spirit OF God was God the Father Himself would make Matthew 10:20 say,

“The God the Father OF the God the Father will be speaking through you.”

And John 16:13 would say,

“When the God the Father of truth comes………….God the Father will not speak on his own, but God the Father will only speak what he hears.”

I've used enough time on this. Think about it Ed, Gene is your number one supporter on this whacked-out unscriptural theory. What does that tell you?

mike

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 09 2010,13:46)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 09 2010,10:24) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 09 2010,07:48) edj could you explain this to me??Matt.10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. Pierre Hi Pierre, Isn't the meaning of that verse obvious? What part of that verse has you confused? God bless eD j (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj the part you cannot explain Pierre

Hi Pierre,

The part I didn't explain is the part that confuses you,
OK I will explain Matt.10:20 for your understanding then!
God The Father speaks “The Word” through his children.
Just like He did starting with his only begotten son, Jesus,
being baptized with the “HolySpirit at Jordan. (John 1:14)
I hope that helps remove ‘your confusion’ in this matter!

God bless
eD j (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 09 2010,14:11)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 08 2010,21:41) Hi Mike, Your juggling words again in an attempt to avoid the obvious truth. No Ed. 1) You refuse to understand that something OF something is not that thing. 2) I've showed you that to say the Spirit OF God was God the Father Himself would make Matthew 10:20 say, “The God the Father OF the God the Father will be speaking through you.” 3) And John 16:13 would say, “When the God the Father of truth comes………….God the Father will not speak on his own, but God the Father will only speak what he hears.” 4) I've used enough time on this.  Think about it Ed, Gene is your number one supporter on this whacked-out unscriptural theory.  What does that tell you? mike

Hi Mike,

1) So your mind isn't you?

2) Your juggling words in an attempt to discredit what you do not want to believe.

3) Well you finally got the correct idea here! Has the Spirit of the
Father ever spoke anything through you that you didn't here?

4) It tells me you have shut your ears. (Matt.13:43)

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike………….If you had eyes to see, you could easily see When GOD the FATHER Spoke though Jesus' mouth (first person) , “Destroy this temple and in three day (I) will raise it up”. Did not Paul say GOD considers us temples He can Dwell in. ” know you not your (ARE) the temples of the LIVING GOD”. Jesus was a temple GOD the FATHER lived IN. Tell us MIKE do you really understand that? If you do then you could easily understand why Thomas said “MY Lord (AND) MY GOD”. Both GOD and Jesus was present and he finely understood that both were there , Jesus was not lying when he said the Father was (IN) HIM because he Truly was (IN) Him.

peace and love…………………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 10 2010,06:41)

Mike………….If you had eyes to see, you could easily see When GOD the FATHER Spoke though Jesus' mouth (first person) , “Destroy this temple and in three day (I) will raise it up”. Did not Paul say GOD considers us temples He can Dwell in. ” know you not your (ARE) the temples of the LIVING GOD”.  Jesus was a temple GOD the FATHER lived IN.  Tell us MIKE do you really understand that?  If you do then you could easily understand why Thomas said “MY Lord (AND) MY GOD”. Both GOD and Jesus was present and he finely understood that both were there , Jesus was not lying when he said the Father was (IN) HIM because he Truly was (IN) Him. peace and love…………………………………..gene

gene

you are not part of that temple in witch Christ is the head,

there are no liar in that temple and there are only 144k
who are called in for that purpose,

Pierre

[GeneBalthrop]

terricca……….There you go flapping you Jaws again no knowing what you are saying. All Saints have GOD in them and GOD considers them (ALL) Temples of the Living GOD. Who do you think Paul was talking to when He said that or do you even remember he said that? Please show where (ONLY) the 144 Thousand of the tribe of Israel are the (ONLY) ONES who make up the temple of GOD. And by the way you have no idea if I am of one of the tribes of Israel or Not. That is just another of you suppositions without any Scriptural supports. What do you think it means by saying that GOD may be IN ALL and Through YOU ALL. Terricca you not retaining scriptures in you mind or you could have figured that out. Go reread what Paul said and come back and clarify what you are trying to say.

peace and love……………………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 10 2010,15:08)

terricca……….There you go flapping you Jaws again no knowing what you are saying. All Saints have GOD in them and GOD considers them (ALL) Temples of the Living GOD.  Who do you think Paul was talking to when He said that or do you even remember he said that? Please show where (ONLY) the 144 Thousand of the tribe of Israel are the (ONLY) ONES who make up the temple of GOD. And by the way you have no idea if I am of one of the tribes of Israel or Not.  That is just another of you suppositions without any Scriptural supports. What do you think it means by saying that GOD may be IN ALL and Through YOU ALL.  Terricca you not retaining scriptures in you mind or you could have figured that out.  Go reread what Paul said and come back and clarify what you are trying to say. peace and love……………………………………..gene

gene

even Paul called the 12 apostles Saints,

but i got a question for you ,what is implied wen we say and call someone saint ,in the bible that is,???

I know you are not one because of you views in the knowledge of the “truth” and how you spread it.
do you know that there are two calls one for above and one for the earth.??

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 09 2010,18:55)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 09 2010,14:11) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 08 2010,21:41) Hi Mike, Your juggling words again in an attempt to avoid the obvious truth. No Ed. 1) You refuse to understand that something OF something is not that thing. 2) I've showed you that to say the Spirit OF God was God the Father Himself would make Matthew 10:20 say, “The God the Father OF the God the Father will be speaking through you.” 3) And John 16:13 would say, “When the God the Father of truth comes………….God the Father will not speak on his own, but God the Father will only speak what he hears.” 4) I've used enough time on this.  Think about it Ed, Gene is your number one supporter on this whacked-out unscriptural theory.  What does that tell you? mike Hi Mike, 1) So your mind isn't you? 2) Your juggling words in an attempt to discredit what you do not want to believe. 3) Well you finally got the correct idea here! Has the Spirit of the Father ever spoke anything through you that you didn't here? 4) It tells me you have shut your ears. (Matt.13:43) Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Last time Ed.

1. No. My mind is a part of me, like my heart and my strength and my soul.

2. There is no juggling involved. If the Holy Spirit actually IS the being of God the Father, then that is EXACTLY what the scripture says.

3. The correct idea? So who is it that tells God the Father what to speak and not speak? Who is it that counsels our God, Ed?

4. Yes. I have shut my ears to your madness. Listen Ed, when you learn that something OF someone does not constitute the entire being of that someone, hit me up.

I'm done.

mike

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 10 2010,08:08)

terricca……….There you go flapping you Jaws again no knowing what you are saying. All Saints have GOD in them and GOD considers them (ALL) Temples of the Living GOD.  Who do you think Paul was talking to when He said that or do you even remember he said that? Please show where (ONLY) the 144 Thousand of the tribe of Israel are the (ONLY) ONES who make up the temple of GOD. And by the way you have no idea if I am of one of the tribes of Israel or Not.  That is just another of you suppositions without any Scriptural supports. What do you think it means by saying that GOD may be IN ALL and Through YOU ALL.  Terricca you not retaining scriptures in you mind or you could have figured that out.  Go reread what Paul said and come back and clarify what you are trying to say. peace and love……………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

I can help you PROVE that the language
in Revelation is symbolic, rather than literal!

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them  which were sealed: and there were
sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
an 15 hundred 74 and 19 forty 84 and 19 four 60 thousand 102 = 373 (74th prime number)

The number 74 and it's association to Jesus…

In English, the significant number (74) is attributed to “JOSHUA”=74 and “Messiah”=74; also
in the following: “JESUS”=74, “Cross”=74, “Gospel”=74, and even “English”=74.
“Jesus Christ” (74×32) also factors 74 in Greek Theomatically:
[Jesus] Ιησους=74(x12), [Christ] Χριστоς=74(x20).
[Son of Man] υιος τον ανθρωπου=74(x40).

“JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS”=373 (John 19:19)
This most popular phrase curiously adds up to the 74th prime number: 373.
Furthermore: “The King” equals 74 as well, which is at the center of this complete phrase.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 09 2010,23:41)

Mike………….If you had eyes to see, you could easily see When GOD the FATHER Spoke though Jesus' mouth (first person)

I know the scripture. I understand WHY you claim what you claim. Now, show me the scripture that says God spoke “first person” through the mouth of Jesus.

And no Gene. Thomas could not have seen God and lived. No man has ever seen God. And Thomas was a man. Even when Stephen was being stoned, he was able to see Jesus at the side of God, but he wasn't able to see God Himself………only His glory.

mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike………Your getting screwed up again, I said when Thomas came to See that GOD was (IN) Jesus (THAT) is when He said My Lord (Jesus) AND MY GOD, I did not say He literally saw GOD, No Man has ever seem GOD, But he came to realize GOD was truly dwelling (IN) Jesus is when he said that. He realized then that GOD was Truly (IN) Jesus as Jesus Plainly Said He Was. There is not scripture that say God was speaking first person through Jesus that is My summation from other thing Jesus said and from the fact if Jesus was truly DEAD as (HE SAID HE WAS) , then there is not way He could have raised Himself now is there. The sum of Gods word is truth Mike, but Preexistences and Trinitarians are simply not able to see (ALL) scripture concerning a Subject they are professing. Really Mike you ignorance in scriptural understanding is Laughable on the one hand and sad on the other. I don't have the answer for you, Pray and maybe GOD will Help you understand , but going alone with the doctrine of Preexistence is definitely not right Mike. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

[kerwin]

To all,

This thread is reaching it end of 1000 post and so I plan on answering questions in other threads.

Mike Boll,

I answer yours in the scripture forum on a thread addressing 2 Corinthians 8:8-9.

[gollamudi]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 10 2010,03:52)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 10 2010,06:41) Mike………….If you had eyes to see, you could easily see When GOD the FATHER Spoke though Jesus' mouth (first person) , “Destroy this temple and in three day (I) will raise it up”. Did not Paul say GOD considers us temples He can Dwell in. ” know you not your (ARE) the temples of the LIVING GOD”.  Jesus was a temple GOD the FATHER lived IN.  Tell us MIKE do you really understand that?  If you do then you could easily understand why Thomas said “MY Lord (AND) MY GOD”. Both GOD and Jesus was present and he finely understood that both were there , Jesus was not lying when he said the Father was (IN) HIM because he Truly was (IN) Him. peace and love…………………………………..gene gene you are not part of that temple in witch Christ is the head, there are no liar in that temple and there are only 144k who are called in for that purpose, Pierre

This is too much brother Pierre.

[gollamudi]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 10 2010,15:04)

Mike………Your getting screwed up again, I said when Thomas came to See that GOD was (IN) Jesus (THAT) is when He said My Lord (Jesus) AND MY GOD, I did not say He literally saw GOD, No Man has ever seem GOD, But he came to realize GOD was truly dwelling (IN) Jesus is when he said that. He realized then that GOD was Truly (IN) Jesus as Jesus Plainly Said He Was.  There is not scripture that say God was speaking first person through Jesus that is My summation from other thing Jesus said and from the fact if Jesus was truly DEAD as (HE SAID HE WAS) , then there is not way He could have raised Himself now is there.  The sum of Gods word is truth  Mike, but Preexistences and Trinitarians are simply not able to see (ALL) scripture concerning a Subject they are professing. Really Mike you ignorance in scriptural understanding is Laughable on the one hand and sad on the other. I don't have the answer for you, Pray and maybe GOD will Help you understand , but going alone with the doctrine of Preexistence is definitely not right Mike. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

Good reply brother Gene. Biblical literalism has caused havoc among Christians. Paul claimed “God was in Christ” but he never literally claimed all powerful, immortal and invisible God was literally occuping human Jesus. This is the fate of our religion. Even on “seeing God” there are different opinions. One set of scriptures in O.T claim that men had seen God and conversed with him face to face like Abraham and Moses but the other set of scriptures claim God can not be seen by human. Which ones to believe which not to believe I leave it to others.
Any how keep it up a good struggle on negating pre-existence.

Love and peace ..to you
Adam

[terraricca]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 11 2010,00:15)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 10 2010,03:52) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 10 2010,06:41) Mike………….If you had eyes to see, you could easily see When GOD the FATHER Spoke though Jesus' mouth (first person) , “Destroy this temple and in three day (I) will raise it up”. Did not Paul say GOD considers us temples He can Dwell in. ” know you not your (ARE) the temples of the LIVING GOD”.  Jesus was a temple GOD the FATHER lived IN.  Tell us MIKE do you really understand that?  If you do then you could easily understand why Thomas said “MY Lord (AND) MY GOD”. Both GOD and Jesus was present and he finely understood that both were there , Jesus was not lying when he said the Father was (IN) HIM because he Truly was (IN) Him. peace and love…………………………………..gene gene you are not part of that temple in witch Christ is the head, there are no liar in that temple and there are only 144k who are called in for that purpose, Pierre This is too much brother Pierre.

Adam

why is it to much? many think that if they just say i beleive in Christ i am saved,

this is only the beginning, now you have to work towards to be holy,stop sinning ,

and use self-control,………

in the truth there are no lies,if not it is no longer the truth.right?

God give s you his grace,but in return he want you to become like him holy ,of cause in time ,but you have to work at it all day and night.

Pierre

[gollamudi]

You are 100% right brother Pierre but how can you judge a brother's character which is known him and God alone?
Peace to you
Adam

[terraricca]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 11 2010,01:49)

You are 100% right brother Pierre but how can you judge a brother's character which is known him and God alone? Peace to you Adam

Adam

we can only ear,see,and think,this should be enough to see and understand if someone is true to the truth or not,

the judgement for that person to receive the grace of God that is not ours ,this required to look inside the hearth and that only God can do.

be we can ear lies,and understand deceit,and see corruption,

so we should distance our selves from those persons.

2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us
2Th 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you

it is the same for people who do not teach the truth of scriptures.

Pierre

[GeneBalthrop]

Terricca……….Your problem is you have NO Idea HOW anyone here walks with GOD , Again Just you personal OPINIONS without ANY Knowledge . You use your own IDEA of who is in right standing with GOD and who is NOT and YOU ASSUME EVERYONE WHO DISAGREE WITH YOU ARE NOT OF GOD. And you base that judgment on what YOUR screwed up views of what you believe Scripture Says. You go about accusing people of being lairs or of Satan and other things. Never realizing You yours self are acting as the accuser of the Brethern. Exactly as Satan Himself is. You would be better of doing what JA and me and others have said (THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK). IMO

peace and love………………………………….gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 10 2010,17:27)

if Jesus was truly DEAD as (HE SAID HE WAS) , then there is not way He could have raised Himself now is there.

You misunderstand the scriptures Gene.  God raised Jesus from the dead, as attested to about 10 times in scripture.

And Adam, either refute the scriptures we post or pipe down.  It is annoying for someone to just show up saying “you are right” and “good post” but then remain silent about all the pre-existent scriptures posted.

Maybe you are like Gene, Adam.  You can't actually refute the pre-existent scriptures, but for some reason cannot let go of your false belief.

Maybe you'd like to try John 17:5 for starters?

So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed.

Jesus says “I HAD” glory with the Father before the world existed.  Now Gene, for some unknown reason reads that as “Give me the glory you had waiting for me since I was a thought in your head before the world existed”.  How about you Adam?  Does that make any kind of logical sense to you?

How about when it's contrasted against the exact words Jesus used………”I HAD”  “IN YOUR PRESENCE”  “BEFORE THE WORLD”?

Can a “thought in God's head” be said to be “in God's presence”?  What did Jesus mean by “I HAD”?  The living breathing person Jesus said “I HAD”. What does the word “I” mean Adam?  Does “I” mean “the non-existent thought of myself in your head”?

Come on man.  Go to the “Pre-existent Scriptural Database” thread Adam.  Read the over 40 scriptures we've put together.  See how many of them you can discredit without using nonsensical grammar and meanings like Gene uses to discredit John 17:5.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Hey Gene,

What do you want first? Bread or Light?

C'ya tomorrow.

mike

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