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Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 17 2010,16:34) Gene, Do you believe Jesus was the only sinless one on earth as scripture says,
Do you believe Jesus was risen from the dead,
Do you believe Jesus went – in the flesh – to the Father
Do you believe He was seated at God's right hand,
And will return ?If I remember right you do believe all of these clear scriptual truths, iv seen people here who are pre-existancers, who deny Jesus was risen in the flesh but spirit only so who is worse ?
That would mean you believe what is clear and the things not so clear you have a different understanding of it, as does Kerwin, Marty, Nick (I think) and others, do I have that right ?
ShimmerJesus as been resuscitated in the flesh,because his apostles talk with him ,but later ascent to heaven and so became spirit.
Pierre
Hi Pierre,
I don't know about that one. We have Jesus saying “a ghost doesn't have flesh and bones”, but then he also was able to “appear” in a locked building two different times. Flesh and bone can't do that, can they?
So was the “flesh and bone” just materialized for the benefit of Thomas and the others………………..or was the “flesh and bone” dematerialized long enough for him to “walk through walls”?
And remember Jesus appeared to some disciples in a likeness they didn't recognize. Can “flesh and bone” disguise it's appearance in that way?
I don't know the answer here…….I'm just popping some things out there.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2010,12:45) Hi Pierre, I don't know about that one. We have Jesus saying “a ghost doesn't have flesh and bones”, but then he also was able to “appear” in a locked building two different times. Flesh and bone can't do that, can they?
So was the “flesh and bone” just materialized for the benefit of Thomas and the others………………..or was the “flesh and bone” dematerialized long enough for him to “walk through walls”?
And remember Jesus appeared to some disciples in a likeness they didn't recognize. Can “flesh and bone” disguise it's appearance in that way?
I don't know the answer here…….I'm just popping some things out there.
peace and love,
mike
Mike, I know what you are saying, however do you believe that Angels can take on Human Form? I believe so…. God through two Angels saved our Granddaughter Tiffany's life, when She was 2 years old. She stood on top of a Grill on a two story Apartment Building balcony and jumped down. Cindy our Daughter saw it happen and screamed so loud that neighbors heard Her and some saw two man walk away from Tiffany. They took Tiffany to the Hospital to check Her out. There was not a scratch on Her…. That was a miracle. And all involved thought so too….. So if Angels can do so Jesus can do much more….I believe that Jesus can change from Human into Spirit Being….He had to be a Human being for anyone to see Him. Also did the Apostles not see Jesus ascend to Heaven? At one point He would have to change into a Spirit Being, or He was and the Apostles just perceived Him as a Human Being, yet He was a Spirit Being. You think that could be possible? Remember at Pentecost everyone heard the Apostle speak in their tongue…..With God all is possible……Peace and Love IreneQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2010,11:49) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 17 2010,09:27) Mike……….. Again don't talk down to me, i full well Know Jesus was a spokesman of Gods Word to Us
Hi Gene,I am unaware of any “talking down” I did to you. Sorry for any misunderstanding on my part.
You say you know full well Jesus was God's spokesman, yet you have a hard time with him being “the Word” who became flesh and had the glory of an only begotten Son……even though you admit Jesus IS called “the Word of God” in Revelation.
Why can you not connect the dots?
And thanks for totally ignoring all the points I made in that last post……..AGAIN.
mike
Mike……….I don't have any problem with Jesus being the Spokesman of Gods words to us I Never did. But to say a person is a spokesmen is one thing and to say that person is the very words He Spoke is quite another. I notice T8 and many other who try to say Jesus was the word in the beginning with God alway leave out (AND THE WORD (WAS) GOD. Why is that?. Is it because they get confused with their mystery religion. I have quoted many times here where Jesus said the words He spoke to us were (NOT) His words so How could HE be the WORDS He Spoke, a Spokesmen of GOD words yest the WORD NO. And a Word can not be FLESH, any fourth grader can tell you that.Irene is alway saying He is Called the Word of GOD , yest He is called that by you people here and as well in the future will be, but because he is called that really make Him that NO, he i called that because He speaks GOD'S WORDS TO US. But that does not make the origin or those word He is speaking no more then it did the Prophets GOD spoke to in times past Make them the word either.
peace and love……………………gene
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 17 2010,09:34) Gene, Do you believe Jesus was the only sinless one on earth as scripture says,
Do you believe Jesus was risen from the dead,
Do you believe Jesus went – in the flesh – to the Father
Do you believe He was seated at God's right hand,
And will return ?If I remember right you do believe all of these clear scriptual truths, iv seen people here who are pre-existancers, who deny Jesus was risen in the flesh but spirit only so who is worse ?
That would mean you believe what is clear and the things not so clear you have a different understanding of it, as does Kerwin, Marty, Nick (I think) and others, do I have that right ?
Shimmer ………..I absolutely believe those thing you wrote that is the way i see it Shimmer. And those thing that are not so clear i reject and consider them as supposition and assumption by the blind here.Yes many others have different understanding of them but most have left like Martian , Jodi, Marty, Chosenone , Nick , they get feed up with this constant merry go round here It like we keep going over and over the same things I am beginning to find myself also tired of it to , to be honest with you sis. It is probably time i took some time off from here also.
And Shimmer Jesus plainly said after his resurrection He was Flesh and bone, and they saw this flesh and bone rise and go to heaven and an angle said that he would return in the same manor in which he left.
There is no such thing as a Spirit (BEING) except GOD HIMSELF, what there is is SPIRIT (IN) Beings. A being must have a body in order for Spirit to go into , that is why a resurrection that will witness the redemption of our (BODIES) is so essential for all who have died to live as a living Soul again. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 17 2010,14:28) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2010,11:49) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 17 2010,09:27) Mike……….. Again don't talk down to me, i full well Know Jesus was a spokesman of Gods Word to Us
Hi Gene,I am unaware of any “talking down” I did to you. Sorry for any misunderstanding on my part.
You say you know full well Jesus was God's spokesman, yet you have a hard time with him being “the Word” who became flesh and had the glory of an only begotten Son……even though you admit Jesus IS called “the Word of God” in Revelation.
Why can you not connect the dots?
And thanks for totally ignoring all the points I made in that last post……..AGAIN.
mike
Mike……….I don't have any problem with Jesus being the Spokesman of Gods words to us I Never did. But to say a person is a spokesmen is one thing and to say that person is the very words He Spoke is quite another. I notice T8 and many other who try to say Jesus was the word in the beginning with God alway leave out (AND THE WORD (WAS) GOD. Why is that?. Is it because they get confused with their mystery religion. I have quoted many times here where Jesus said the words He spoke to us were (NOT) His words so How could HE be the WORDS He Spoke, a Spokesmen of GOD words yest the WORD NO. And a Word can not be FLESH, any fourth grader can tell you that.Irene is alway saying He is Called the Word of GOD , yest He is called that by you people here and as well in the future will be, but because he is called that really make Him that NO, he i called that because He speaks GOD'S WORDS TO US. But that does not make the origin or those word He is speaking no more then it did the Prophets GOD spoke to in times past Make them the word either.
peace and love……………………gene
Gene, Oh Gene! When are you going to realize that Jesus is
KING OF KING AND LORD OF LORDS. In the same Book Rev. 19 He is also called The Word of God. Your argument is with Scripture and not with Mike or myself. John wrote both Rev. and John. And The Word of God became flesh. That is what it says….. Are you ever going to believe it? We should know that both God and The Word of God are titles IMO. Jesus also has another name right? Yeshua. And how can you deny Rev. 19:13-16 it is so plainly written. Tell me is there another being that fits that description? I don't.
John has several Scriptures stating that Jesus was in Heaven before the world was. By Jesus own words even. John 17:5
One more thing, I don't find it right of you to confuse shimmer, I believe She is Bab in Christ and is learning whatever we say. Getting personal is not right of you to do…. I could say the same about you, couldn't I….?
Peace IreneIrene……….We all can believe what we want to, i disagree with you on this subject as well as with Mike and T8, JA and all preexistences and Trinitarians . I Believe they are of the Spirit of Antichrist John was talking about that would come and infect the Churches and it did and still does IMO. If you don't see Jesus as one of Us Humans You simply do not see him at all. I did not say he was not (CALLED) the word of GOD what i said was that because People CALL HIM THAT DOES (NOT) MAKE HIM THAT. When you say Jesus is the WORD of GOD you are stealing GLORY from GOD the FATHER, He is the Spokesman of GOD the FATHERS WORDS to Us , i have never denied that and when He come He will still be Speaking (GOD the FATHERS) Words to us. But they will not be (HIS) WORDS he will Be Speaking just as before when He was on the earth. He will still be doing the WILL of the FATHER. IMO
Peace and love to you and Georg……………………gene
Shimmer I am very sorry that so many just want to confuse you with their believes and call the ones that go by Scriptures blind. I sense that you are still new in the debating field ,and are being confused by it all. I hope and pray that you will make up you own mind, and don't let anyone put doubt in your Heart. Believe Scriptures. Most if not all are plainly written. I don't interpret Scriptures because of that reason…..The preexisting of Jesus is not that hard to understand if we do go by Scriptures. Even Jesus Himself came and said that He came down from Heaven. My advice to you is to take all those Scriptures that most give on this subject and study them without anyone's influence…. Good luck and may God be with you forevermore…… Peace Irene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 17 2010,14:46) Shimmer ……….. There is no such thing as a Spirit (BEING) except GOD HIMSELF, what there is is SPIRIT (IN) Beings. A being must have a body in order for Spirit to go into , that is why a resurrection that will witness the redemption of our (BODIES) is so essential for all who have died to live as a living Soul again. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Hi Gene,What are “Angels”?
Quote (Baker @ Oct. 17 2010,14:47) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 17 2010,14:28)
Mike……….I don't have any problem with Jesus being the Spokesman of Gods words to us I Never did. But to say a person is a spokesmen is one thing and to say that person is the very words He Spoke is quite another. I notice T8 and many other who try to say Jesus was the word in the beginning with God alway leave out (AND THE WORD (WAS) GOD. Why is that?. Is it because they get confused with their mystery religion. I have quoted many times here where Jesus said the words He spoke to us were (NOT) His words so How could HE be the WORDS He Spoke, a Spokesmen of GOD words yest the WORD NO. And a Word can not be FLESH, any fourth grader can tell you that.Irene is alway saying He is Called the Word of GOD , yest He is called that by you people here and as well in the future will be, but because he is called that really make Him that NO, he i called that because He speaks GOD'S WORDS TO US. But that does not make the origin or those word He is speaking no more then it did the Prophets GOD spoke to in times past Make them the word either.
peace and love……………………gene
Gene, Oh Gene! When are you going to realize that Jesus is
KING OF KING AND LORD OF LORDS. In the same Book Rev. 19 He is also called The Word of God. Your argument is with Scripture and not with Mike or myself. John wrote both Rev. and John. And The Word of God became flesh. That is what it says….. Are you ever going to believe it? We should know that both God and The Word of God are titles IMO. Jesus also has another name right? Yeshua. And how can you deny Rev. 19:13-16 it is so plainly written. Tell me is there another being that fits that description? I don't.
John has several Scriptures stating that Jesus was in Heaven before the world was. By Jesus own words even. John 17:5
One more thing, I don't find it right of you to confuse shimmer, I believe She is Bab in Christ and is learning whatever we say. Getting personal is not right of you to do…. I could say the same about you, couldn't I….?
Peace Irene
Hi Irene,Do you not say that “The Word” is 'a person'? Gene is telling you this idea is NOT correct.
Why would you say Gene's argument is not with you; when that is your idea?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Baker @ Oct. 17 2010,15:10) Shimmer I am very sorry that so many just want to confuse you with their believes and call the ones that go by Scriptures blind. I sense that you are still new in the debating field ,and are being confused by it all. I hope and pray that you will make up you own mind, and don't let anyone put doubt in your Heart. Believe Scriptures. Most if not all are plainly written. I don't interpret Scriptures because of that reason…..The preexisting of Jesus is not that hard to understand if we do go by Scriptures. Even Jesus Himself came and said that He came down from Heaven. My advice to you is to take all those Scriptures that most give on this subject and study them without anyone's influence…. Good luck and may God be with you forevermore…… Peace Irene
Hi Irene,Who are you accusing of 'wanting to confuse' Shimmer?
Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 17 2010,15:04) Irene……….We all can believe what we want to, i disagree with you on this subject as well as with Mike and T8, JA and all preexistences and Trinitarians . I Believe they are of the Spirit of Antichrist John was talking about that would come and infect the Churches and it did and still does IMO. If you don't see Jesus as one of Us Humans You simply do not see him at all. I did not say he was not (CALLED) the word of GOD what i said was that because People CALL HIM THAT DOES (NOT) MAKE HIM THAT. When you say Jesus is the WORD of GOD you are stealing GLORY from GOD the FATHER, He is the Spokesman of GOD the FATHERS WORDS to Us , i have never denied that and when He come He will still be Speaking (GOD the FATHERS) Words to us. But they will not be (HIS) WORDS he will Be Speaking just as before when He was on the earth. He will still be doing the WILL of the FATHER. IMO Peace and love to you and Georg……………………gene
Gene! Saying what you just did, is judging me and others that believe the preexisting of Jesus. To say that is the spirit of Anti-Christ is ridiculous to say the least. If I would deny that Christ came and died for us in the flesh then yes, but we do not deny Christ coming in the flesh. You are out of your mind. You call us blind? Yes, you need a break. Putting the Trinitarians and the Pre Existing together is also stupid to say the least. I know neither t8 or Mike believe in the trinity. Whoever believes in the trinity is not of Anti Christ either…. It is a wrong doctrine and Christ will set them straight one day….But you are judging us, and I believe God will not look kindly on that, my friend.
It amazes me that you even sign Peace and Love how can you mean that when you have just called us that, because Georg too believes like us…..He however is smarter then I. He will not debate the likes of you……
Have a good live…. IreneQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 17 2010,15:20) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 17 2010,14:47) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 17 2010,14:28)
Mike……….I don't have any problem with Jesus being the Spokesman of Gods words to us I Never did. But to say a person is a spokesmen is one thing and to say that person is the very words He Spoke is quite another. I notice T8 and many other who try to say Jesus was the word in the beginning with God alway leave out (AND THE WORD (WAS) GOD. Why is that?. Is it because they get confused with their mystery religion. I have quoted many times here where Jesus said the words He spoke to us were (NOT) His words so How could HE be the WORDS He Spoke, a Spokesmen of GOD words yest the WORD NO. And a Word can not be FLESH, any fourth grader can tell you that.Irene is alway saying He is Called the Word of GOD , yest He is called that by you people here and as well in the future will be, but because he is called that really make Him that NO, he i called that because He speaks GOD'S WORDS TO US. But that does not make the origin or those word He is speaking no more then it did the Prophets GOD spoke to in times past Make them the word either.
peace and love……………………gene
Gene, Oh Gene! When are you going to realize that Jesus is
KING OF KING AND LORD OF LORDS. In the same Book Rev. 19 He is also called The Word of God. Your argument is with Scripture and not with Mike or myself. John wrote both Rev. and John. And The Word of God became flesh. That is what it says….. Are you ever going to believe it? We should know that both God and The Word of God are titles IMO. Jesus also has another name right? Yeshua. And how can you deny Rev. 19:13-16 it is so plainly written. Tell me is there another being that fits that description? I don't.
John has several Scriptures stating that Jesus was in Heaven before the world was. By Jesus own words even. John 17:5
One more thing, I don't find it right of you to confuse shimmer, I believe She is Bab in Christ and is learning whatever we say. Getting personal is not right of you to do…. I could say the same about you, couldn't I….?
Peace Irene
Hi Irene,Do you not say that “The Word” is 'a person'? Gene is telling you this idea is NOT correct.
Why would you say Gene's argument is not with you; when that is your idea?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed. Did The Word of God in John 1:14 become flesh?Quote (Baker @ Oct. 17 2010,15:31) Ed. Did The Word of God in John 1:14 become flesh?
Hi Irene,Here are the FACTS, according to The Bible…
“The Word”(Holy Spirit) became fully flesh(in Jesus) at Jesus baptism by John;
He(Holy Spirit) led Jesus into the wilderness in Luke 4:1 and He(Holy Spirit)
caused Jesus to return from the wilderness in Luke 4:14! He(Holy Spirit)
also made Jesus aware that he(Jesus) would have to die on a cross for the sins of mankind!
This is how “The Word”(Jesus’ Father) was made flesh, and dwelt among us. (John 14:9 / John 1:14)John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God:
for God giveth not the [HolySpirit] by measure unto him(Jesus Christ).The Word becomes flesh in us as well!
Acts12:24 …”The Word” ([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs) of God grew and multiplied.
Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought
beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall
be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the HolySpirit.
Luke 12:12 For the HolySpirit shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
Matt.10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEdj,
You have forced a meaning to your declaration.
You say that the Word became flesh in Jesus when the Holy Spirit overshadowed him at the river Jordan. Where on earth or from heaven did you get that from?
Then you say that he was led into the desert by that same Word. Eh?
If Jesus became the Word at his baptism, how is he then led by the word?…he IS the Word…did he then lead himself?
Then, you say that the Word will become flesh in us too, and give a quote that has nothing to do with your supposition.
The quote pertains to several of the gifts of the Holy Spirit: The gift of Remembrance; the gift of Revelation; the gift of strength of righteousness, etc.
Edj, there is nothing in that statement that says, even by your own false ideas, that the Word will 'become flesh'.
The Holy Spirit speaking through someone is not 'becoming flesh'.Edj, why are you saying these false things?
There is not a single other who should agree with you here.
Irene is right about Gene misleading Shimmer, but I extend that admonition to you too in this regard.
Shimmer is vulnerable to false ideas but is trying to be Holy. Please do not mislead and confuse her with false ideas.
This will also mean being mindful of not desiring to post halfbaked and unscriptural ideas, period.
These false ideas, especially concerning the Holy Spirit, is what is written saying, 'Do not Grieve the Holy Spirit' for the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth.
If you speak in, or of, or about, the Holy Spirit, then it must be in Truth.Gene has gone completely over the edge, even his writing is tortured let alone the amazing depth of falsehood.
Satan has wrapped him in a cloak of deception, and he even inadvertently, quotes his own epitaph in 2 Thessalonians 2, concerning the deluding spirit sent by God.
Edj, try not to make it your epitaph, too.
Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 17 2010,18:43) Edj, If Jesus became the Word at his baptism, how is he then led by the word?…he IS the Word…did he then lead himself?
Hi JustAskin,You have forced a meaning to your declaration.
“The Word”(HolySpirit) directed Jesus from the inside,
as The Word became flesh at Jesus' baptism. (John 1:14)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi JustAskin,
I congratulate you on the fact you realize that I teach.
You know that teaching is one of the gifts of the HolySpirit.
It would be nice if you could identify the truth equally as well! (1Peter 2:23)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgTo all, I believe everyone here in this conversation has a good spirit and means well, we all disagree or don't understand these things, but we all believe in Jesus and God the Father and all have hope that in the future something better will come, so before we all start calling each other right or wrong, faith is important in each one of us and should be built up, as Irene said one day we will all know the truth, until then all we can do is learn, think, debate etc.
Gene I think your right with Jesus body, as I said before I agree on that, Jesus was risen in his (glorified) body and will return in the same way.
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 17 2010,15:44) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 17 2010,15:31) Ed. Did The Word of God in John 1:14 become flesh?
Hi Irene,Here are the FACTS, according to The Bible…
“The Word”(Holy Spirit) became fully flesh(in Jesus) at Jesus baptism by John;
He(Holy Spirit) led Jesus into the wilderness in Luke 4:1 and He(Holy Spirit)
caused Jesus to return from the wilderness in Luke 4:14! He(Holy Spirit)
also made Jesus aware that he(Jesus) would have to die on a cross for the sins of mankind!
This is how “The Word”(Jesus’ Father) was made flesh, and dwelt among us. (John 14:9 / John 1:14)John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God:
for God giveth not the [HolySpirit] by measure unto him(Jesus Christ).The Word becomes flesh in us as well!
Acts12:24 …”The Word” ([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs) of God grew and multiplied.
Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought
beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall
be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the HolySpirit.
Luke 12:12 For the HolySpirit shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
Matt.10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJ………..You have it absolute right, on this one. Except that the Spirit became (fully) Flesh , the spirit came to be (IN) the Flesh Man Jesus. The word of GOD (IS) GODS revelation to us and it came to be (IN) the Flesh man Jesus When He recieved it at the Jordan River GOD and HIS (GODS) Word was manifested to Us through Jesus by the ANOINTING He HAD. That is why he is called the CHRISTOS or ANOINTED ONE. WE also can have this anointing in us to, that is why Jesus said I in you and you in me it is through that same spirit (intellect) expressed in words, the very (intellect) of God that comes through His (God's) Words. “THAT GOD MAY BE ALL AND IN YOU ALL”. That is how it is done God is IN US By his Spirit (intellect) God and His word is one and the same thing. You have that right.peace and love…………………………….gene
JA………..The only cloaked in deception here is you, and your JA Split personality. Trying to present yourself as some kind of Judge of Us but yet are complete unable to Judge yourself it seem. Like you rendition Jesus and His angle thing your mind made up, or should i say you alter ego made up. I believe Satan has wrapped YOU up in your alter Ego, Your epitaph. You certainly are a deceiver trying to deceive others into thinking you know what your are talking about and mixing up truth with false accusation. Your are truly of YOUR FATHER the ACCUSER for He was indeed a lier and and ACCUSER OF the Brethern , Just like your are. And that seems to be YOUR EPITAPH. IMO
gene
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