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Quote (martian @ July 29 2010,11:13) 5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.Since Mike will not continue I guess I will.
All scripture is good for teaching. What does this conclusion of Mike’s teach us? What is it’s fruit?
It teaches us that a preexistant being can give up the glory he had in heaven and become a human being. That Jesus went through some process to give up this spirit life and humble himself to become a man.
OK then. I want to follow Christ. I want to be humble, so the process I go through is what? Oh I forgot, I am not a preexistant being so I cannot go through the same process as Christ. Thee is no fruit for me other then some silly philosophy to preach on Mars hill.
First off Martian,I don't live on HN. Can you not at least give me a day to respond before chiming in about how I'm not going to? You do this frequently.
Secondly, you said:
Quote Oh I forgot, I am not a preexistant being so I cannot go through the same process as Christ. And that sums up you guy's thinking in a nutshell. Do you think you must be curcified on a cross too, Martian? I've already told you guys, you lost before you started. Jesus did NOT have a human father, so you are NOT the same as Jesus. Give it up.
Third, the scripture clearly says Jesus was in the form of God, emptied himself, and then was MADE in human likeness.
If you want to analyze this to death and switch all the words around, then more power to you. I've presented my case, which is basically to read the scripture as written. You have presented your far reaching, use of the alternate definitions of the Greek words, and conjecture of your own “context”.
That's fine with me. Like I said, this is just the first of many scriptures I plan to hit you with. So if it makes you guys feel good to boast about somehow defeating “ME”, when it is all about scripture, go for it.
I'm good with my understanding of Phil 2. Let's see how you fair with John 6:62. You guys aren't off to a very good start there. barley just gave a one word answer with no reason why. Martian is trying diversion about how I research things. And I don't think I've seen “He's right Gene” over there yet.
Later,
mikeHi MB,
What does the FORM of God mean?Are angels in the form of God?
Was Jesus to you an angel or another god?
Are others in the form of God or is he alone in this way?
We are made in God's image but does that mean we too are in the form of God?Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2010,13:24) Quote (martian @ July 29 2010,03:33) Many manuscripts read laid aside his privledges instead of emptied himself.
Post one. And along with it, post the definitions of the Greek words.Thanks,
mike
Mike………..sorry for the mix up brother.Peace and love……………gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2010,13:42) Hi MB,
What does the FORM of God mean?Are angels in the form of God?
Was Jesus to you an angel or another god?
Are others in the form of God or is he alone in this way?
We are made in God's image but does that mean we too are in the form of God?
Hi Nick,When you decide to start answering my questions, I will again answer yours.
mike
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2010,13:49) Hi MB,
Are we not able to first agree on definitions??
Which word would you like to challenge my definition of?mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2010,13:39) And that sums up you guy's thinking in a nutshell. Do you think you must be curcified on a cross too, Martian? I've already told you guys, you lost before you started. Jesus did NOT have a human father, so you are NOT the same as Jesus. Give it up.
Mike……..So are we to conclude the same about Adam and Eve they did not have an earthly Father or Mother either. Mike your assumption are only forcing the text to conform to you preconceived ideology, If you say Jesus because he did not have a earthly Father makes him a preexisting being of some kind that is a stretch of the scriptures , And if you insist to believe that then you need to produce some scriptures showing what and who he was before he existed on earth, what was his name , his position, his rank, what type of being was he and how did he morph himself into the womb of Mary and why did Jesus not explain this in important subject his ministry if it were true. Mike pure speculation on you part brother.Mike have you ever though that in order for Jesus to fit the description God gave of Him through Issiah the Prophet it would necessitate Him to alter the DNA in Mary to meet this description, You making it a big deal the God creates DNA in a Person is only a simple thing for God to do, that would not separate Jesus from being (EXACTLY ONE OF US) Think about it Man. IMO
peace and love ……………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2010,13:39) Quote (martian @ July 29 2010,11:13) 5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.Since Mike will not continue I guess I will.
All scripture is good for teaching. What does this conclusion of Mike’s teach us? What is it’s fruit?
It teaches us that a preexistant being can give up the glory he had in heaven and become a human being. That Jesus went through some process to give up this spirit life and humble himself to become a man.
OK then. I want to follow Christ. I want to be humble, so the process I go through is what? Oh I forgot, I am not a preexistant being so I cannot go through the same process as Christ. Thee is no fruit for me other then some silly philosophy to preach on Mars hill.
First off Martian,I don't live on HN. Can you not at least give me a day to respond before chiming in about how I'm not going to? You do this frequently.
Secondly, you said:
Quote Oh I forgot, I am not a preexistant being so I cannot go through the same process as Christ. And that sums up you guy's thinking in a nutshell. Do you think you must be curcified on a cross too, Martian? I've already told you guys, you lost before you started. Jesus did NOT have a human father, so you are NOT the same as Jesus. Give it up.
Third, the scripture clearly says Jesus was in the form of God, emptied himself, and then was MADE in human likeness.
If you want to analyze this to death and switch all the words around, then more power to you. I've presented my case, which is basically to read the scripture as written. You have presented your far reaching, use of the alternate definitions of the Greek words, and conjecture of your own “context”.
That's fine with me. Like I said, this is just the first of many scriptures I plan to hit you with. So if it makes you guys feel good to boast about somehow defeating “ME”, when it is all about scripture, go for it.
I'm good with my understanding of Phil 2. Let's see how you fair with John 6:62. You guys aren't off to a very good start there. barley just gave a one word answer with no reason why. Martian is trying diversion about how I research things. And I don't think I've seen “He's right Gene” over there yet.
Later,
mike
The fact that Jesus has God as a Father in no way means he is different then us in knowledge or nature. I have always contended that Jesus is the same as us from conception forward. I never have bothered with how God did it because it is not in scripture.again the crucifiction has nothing to do with following Christ as a perfected human being although scripture is very clear that we are to pick up our cross and follow him. We are to crucify the flesh.
You say-
If you want to analyze this to death and switch all the words around, then more power to you. I've presented my case, which is basically to read the scripture as written. You have presented your far reaching, use of the alternate definitions of the Greek words, and conjecture of your own “context”.REply-
In other words you read the verse and made up your own nonsense based on what you were told or what you already believed. You studied no farther. You fail even the basics of bible interpretation. Your methods are dishonest and therefor your conclusions cannot be trusted.As far as John 1:62 goes. As soon as you agree to follow the basic interpretation principles I posted or suggest some of your own. I see no point in playing your dishonest game.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2010,14:01) Hi MB,
Read above .
FORM for a start.
And what is YOUR definition of it. Please provide a source of your info that leads you to believe this way.mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 29 2010,14:08) If you say Jesus because he did not have a earthly Father makes him a preexisting being of some kind that is a stretch of the scriptures
What I say is that Jesus not having a human father makes him DIFFERENT from all of us as humans. You guys WANT Jesus to be exactly the same as you to the point you will ignore or butcher clear scriptures. But it is all in vain, for Jesus did NOT have a human father like all of us, so he NEVER was “exactly the same” as any of you.Too bad, so sad.
mike
Mike,
A female cloned human has no human father. A male cloned human would technically have a human father but would not result from the fusion of a sperm and an egg.
That is futuristic in that God has not yet chosen to open the way for us to clone human beings though some claim to have done so.
In case you do not realize it not all human beings are formed in the same way even at this time as you have identicle twins and chimeras as well as what we would consider normal formation. You also have in vitro fertilization.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 23 2010,10:49) Hi All, This thread is ONLY for discussing whether or not Phillipians 2 implies Jesus pre-existed.
Please don't post your opinions on the matter as a whole, but limit them ONLY to your understanding of Phil 2.
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.I say it's clear evidence of Jesus' pre-existence. What say you all?
mike
There is a reason why some people don't believe the “Word” of God.2Cr 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
There is no sense trying to argue the point, any point; it would be like trying to explain to a person, born blind, what colours are.
Mike,
I believe the debate about Philipians 2 centers on what the word “form” is referring to in verse 6. I firmly believe it is referring to Jesus' attitude being the same as God's.
As a result of that Jesus is not arrogant but instead accepts his role as a servant of God. God created him in the shape of a human being because he is is a human being just as scripture declares elsewhere.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 30 2010,14:33) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 29 2010,14:08) If you say Jesus because he did not have a earthly Father makes him a preexisting being of some kind that is a stretch of the scriptures
What I say is that Jesus not having a human father makes him DIFFERENT from all of us as humans. You guys WANT Jesus to be exactly the same as you to the point you will ignore or butcher clear scriptures. But it is all in vain, for Jesus did NOT have a human father like all of us, so he NEVER was “exactly the same” as any of you.Too bad, so sad.
mike
So now you are saying that Christ is not human?
Any deviation from the form of DNA received from the sperm and egg would result in a mutation or a new species.
So are you going to now say that Christ was a diffeent species or some sort of super human?Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 30 2010,14:33) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 29 2010,14:08) If you say Jesus because he did not have a earthly Father makes him a preexisting being of some kind that is a stretch of the scriptures
What I say is that Jesus not having a human father makes him DIFFERENT from all of us as humans. You guys WANT Jesus to be exactly the same as you to the point you will ignore or butcher clear scriptures. But it is all in vain, for Jesus did NOT have a human father like all of us, so he NEVER was “exactly the same” as any of you.Too bad, so sad.
mike
How do you know that Christ is different in makeup or knowledge? Do you know what God produced to make Mary pregnant? Are yu going to elevate Mary to some supernatural position so that she can be made pregnant by some super sperm?
We are all sourced from God. We are through our Father Adam and Jesus directly through Mary.
There is nothing but speculation that any form of knowledge can be passed on through genetic makeup or be present from birth.
Jesus is a man as testified from hundreds of scriptures. Whatever God did to produce Christ in conjunction with Mary resulted in a human being.Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 30 2010,14:33) What I say is that Jesus not having a human father makes him DIFFERENT from all of us as humans. You guys WANT Jesus to be exactly the same as you to the point you will ignore or butcher clear scriptures. But it is all in vain, for Jesus did NOT have a human father like all of us, so he NEVER was “exactly the same” as any of you. Too bad, so sad.
mike
Mike………So if we follow you logic, then Adam and Even were not really human beings like us either right after all GOD was there Father, so to me GOD is the Father of Mankind , how does God causing a creation of a Human make that human any different then Us. Pure speculation on your part Mike.peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Quote (kerwin @ July 31 2010,14:57) Good! Good point!
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Hey guys, thrash all you want. I'll just keep waiting for an answer to how Jesus is exactly the same as us when we all have human fathers and Jesus didn't.mike
Quote (kerwin @ July 30 2010,21:57) I believe the debate about Philipians 2 centers on what the word “form” is referring to in verse 6. I firmly believe it is referring to Jesus' attitude being the same as God's.
No Kerwin,That's where YOU want it to center. For me it is the last five words. He was “ginomai”, which means “caused to exist”, in human likeness.
You guys keep trying to say the “form of God” part means “attitude of God” or whatever. But if this is the case, he was ALREADY in human likeness. How could he empty himself to BE MADE IN HUMAN LIKENESS?
Kerwin, I'll look forward to more of your twisting of scripture in the John 6:62 thread. The guys over there seem to be having some trouble coming up with a reason why Jesus said he would ascend to where he was before.
Maybe you can put your “his glory is what pre-existed” spin on that one too!
peace and love,
mike
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