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Lightenup…
So what is your interpretation when Jesus says that
His Father is the one true God?FYI, I keep “Coming back” because I'm the original poster of this thread. I do not ever mind the challenge, but that is not what this thread is about.
I am sorry I was typing on my nook tablet and that one post needed to be edited. (Heaven Net needs a feature where we can it post!!)
Anyway…Here it is again…
Lightenup…
So you do not answer the questions that I asked and did not understand the use of “one”.“…and His bride has made herself ready.”
The bride is many, but where is the word “one”? You see it is a singular pronoun, but the word “one” is not in this sentence!!
I told you that a singular pronoun can and does represent many in the Bible. However, our discussion was about the use of the
word “one.” Go back and read your original argument to my first statement…PLEASE.WE though many, are “one” body in Christ.
Now we know “one” here is “one set” because we see the “we”.“That they may be one as we are one.”
Do you see it? It says “WE”, so again, they are one set, NOT one God!So again, the question is HOW DO YOU KNOW IF THE WORD “ECHAD” IS ONE SET OR ONE THING? That was the original question.
The answer is, context and if the pronoun using to represent it is singular (he) or plural (we).So, if I say, “they are one” then that means that THEY are one set or of like mind. (and of course, I do not disagree that God and Jesus are of like mind/in agreement with each other.)
If I say, “Abraham is one” (which it does say in the Bible) then this means…..He is one person!!!
Easy, right?By the way, I get my idea that Jews do not believe in the Bi/trinity from Jews. That is one of their problems with Christianity!!
You can edit now jb2u.
That feature is turned off by default due to abuse. But is given upon request and if the member has a good track record.jb2u, in case you are not aware, you can take a person to the Supreme Court where they must answer questions. It is called the 'Hot Seat' (forum). But you only need to go there if the person is dodging/refusing the questions. Just letting you know that service exists if LU refuses to answer your questions. LU usually attempts to answer them though.
Lightenup…
I have a quick story for you!!
There is this guy MIKE. He lives on a planet where he is the ONLY chicken salesman. Now, MIKE is upset because other people are saying that they are chicken salesmen, but it is a lie.
He is the ONLY chicken salesman. One day he has enough of it and calls Bob. He tells Bob that these people are saying that they sell chickens and people actually believe them. It is hurting
him!!! These people are going to starve if they believe that these “other false chicken salesmen” are real. They will die because these false chicken people do not have any chickens
to sell. Therefore, these unbelievers will not have anything to eat if they believe in these false chicken people!!! MIKE loves these people so much and does not want them to die; so,
he tells Bob to go and tell all of these people about MIKE, the only chicken salesman.Bob goes out and does a great job of “getting the word out”, but many do not believe him. He goes all around saying, “MIKE is the only chicken salesman. Buy chicken from Him.”
Then Bob calls MIKE and says,…
“it is important for them to live, that they might know you the only true chicken salesman, and Bob, whom you have sent.”Now this is VERY important….be honest…..is BOB a chicken salesman??? No, of course not!!! MIKE is the chicken salesman. Bob is the one that went to deliver the message.
My 8 year old answered this question correctly!! I asked her!!! I'm pretty sure you can, too!! Can you see who the chicken salesman is and who is the messenger???And yet, when Jesus says to his Father “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3),
you refuse to see the clear and plain truth. Why is that???Notice that BOTH of these sentences are the same…I ONLY changed the names.
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true Chicken Salesman, and Bob, whom thou hast sent.”
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”Let him with eyes SEE!!
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 28 2013,17:13) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 28 2013,14:11) Quote (jb2u @ Mar. 28 2013,09:40) Thank you Ed J and t8 for the welcome. As I said, I really do not like to argue. My goal was really just to see if someone knows of a church that teaches the truth. Who knew it would lead to 11 pages!!
Hi JB2U,WE “are the church” you are looking for.
Here's some inspirational Pastors for you: (Link)God bless
Ed J
Hi Ed,
By “We” you are seriously not meaning that this forum is some type of a Church, right? lol.It does not feel that good, that is for sure.
Hi 2Besee,Don't think so small, “The Church” goes far beyond the confines of this forum.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2013,05:33) Quote (david @ Mar. 28 2013,11:19) “I love the church environment.”–jb2u hi Jb.
You will find almost no one on this forum who loves the church environment. I would say this forum is 95% anti-church, and perhaps, rightfully so.
But really, the word translated “church” just means “congregation,” and a congregation is a congregated people, not a building. People can gather anywhere, even on an Internet site. But, I am trying to figure out how some can think that a very divided group, some believing the trinity, some teaching against, some believing in hellfire, and some against, etc, can be “the true church,” teaching truth.
David.
Let the personal attacks begin.
David,I simply view us all as students whose goal should be seeking the true gospel of Christ.
The church as recorded in Scripture had differences in its members.
So, the big question then: are there any differences that are so big that they can't be overcome? Or any differences that are so big that you would say some aren't following Christ?And, while there were differences, weren't they sorted out? It's understandable that there be differences when Christianity was very new and when things were being sorted out, isn't it?
Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2013,20:26) And, while there were differences, weren't they sorted out? It's understandable that there be differences when Christianity was very new and when things were being sorted out, isn't it?
Yes, and it would also be understandable that things needed sorting out after the Dark Ages and the legacy that this left.Scripture doesn't say that the Church will be a light that gets brighter and brighter. History shows us that there were dark times and lighter times.
Here we are 2000 years later, dealing with truth and tradition and sorting out which is which.
Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2013,12:26) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2013,05:33) Quote (david @ Mar. 28 2013,11:19) “I love the church environment.”–jb2u hi Jb.
You will find almost no one on this forum who loves the church environment. I would say this forum is 95% anti-church, and perhaps, rightfully so.
But really, the word translated “church” just means “congregation,” and a congregation is a congregated people, not a building. People can gather anywhere, even on an Internet site. But, I am trying to figure out how some can think that a very divided group, some believing the trinity, some teaching against, some believing in hellfire, and some against, etc, can be “the true church,” teaching truth.
David.
Let the personal attacks begin.
David,I simply view us all as students whose goal should be seeking the true gospel of Christ.
The church as recorded in Scripture had differences in its members.
So, the big question then: are there any differences that are so big that they can't be overcome? Or any differences that are so big that you would say some aren't following Christ?And, while there were differences, weren't they sorted out? It's understandable that there be differences when Christianity was very new and when things were being sorted out, isn't it?
David,1) Differences show who is approved of by God.
2) Blaspheme against the Spirit is the only difference that cannot be overcome.
3) Heretics were thrown out of the church.
4) We seek for what the apostles knew.Lightenup
I come on here and there is alot of clever people who can tell you what this greek word means or what somthing means in hebrew, I`m not one of those people, I`m not even that good at english and sometimes just to right a post can take a silly amount of time. However the bible tells me that truth is simple to understand. For me God made it simple, he called himself the Father and Jesus his son, what could be more simple than that.
To me its clear that Jesus has free will to choose to stay in the will of God or go against him, otherwise why would Satan have tried to tempt him. Now to me its our own free will that makes us all separate I carry the DNA of my dad and my mom but I am not them, I am my own person because I have my own free will.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2013,22:58) Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2013,12:26) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2013,05:33) Quote (david @ Mar. 28 2013,11:19) “I love the church environment.”–jb2u hi Jb.
You will find almost no one on this forum who loves the church environment. I would say this forum is 95% anti-church, and perhaps, rightfully so.
But really, the word translated “church” just means “congregation,” and a congregation is a congregated people, not a building. People can gather anywhere, even on an Internet site. But, I am trying to figure out how some can think that a very divided group, some believing the trinity, some teaching against, some believing in hellfire, and some against, etc, can be “the true church,” teaching truth.
David.
Let the personal attacks begin.
David,I simply view us all as students whose goal should be seeking the true gospel of Christ.
The church as recorded in Scripture had differences in its members.
So, the big question then: are there any differences that are so big that they can't be overcome? Or any differences that are so big that you would say some aren't following Christ?And, while there were differences, weren't they sorted out? It's understandable that there be differences when Christianity was very new and when things were being sorted out, isn't it?
David,1) Differences show who is approved of by God.
2) Blaspheme against the Spirit is the only difference that cannot be overcome.
3) Heretics were thrown out of the church.
4) We seek for what the apostles knew.
Hi kerwin.So, if I teach that God burns bad people forever in hellfire, and that he is a mysterious unknowable trinity, but you teach the opposites, are these differences in belief ok? Who decides? Are you are I a heretic if such was the case? And which one of us? And who decides? Is it majority rule? The majority believe in a pope. So how does one get kicked out of a church that isn't really structured? How would you define “blaspheme against the Holy Spirit”?
Quote (Jeremy @ Mar. 30 2013,08:09) To me its clear that Jesus has free will to choose to stay in the will of God or go against him, otherwise why would Satan have tried to tempt him.
Good point, Jeremy. God created all of His sons with a free will. He apparently did not want robots who were hardwired to serve Him no matter what.Apparently, it is for God's own good pleasure that His creations CHOOSE to serve Him of their own free will.
Some of those children do, and some don't. Jesus does. Satan doesn't.
Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2013,21:58) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2013,22:58) Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2013,12:26) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2013,05:33) Quote (david @ Mar. 28 2013,11:19) “I love the church environment.”–jb2u hi Jb.
You will find almost no one on this forum who loves the church environment. I would say this forum is 95% anti-church, and perhaps, rightfully so.
But really, the word translated “church” just means “congregation,” and a congregation is a congregated people, not a building. People can gather anywhere, even on an Internet site. But, I am trying to figure out how some can think that a very divided group, some believing the trinity, some teaching against, some believing in hellfire, and some against, etc, can be “the true church,” teaching truth.
David.
Let the personal attacks begin.
David,I simply view us all as students whose goal should be seeking the true gospel of Christ.
The church as recorded in Scripture had differences in its members.
So, the big question then: are there any differences that are so big that they can't be overcome? Or any differences that are so big that you would say some aren't following Christ?And, while there were differences, weren't they sorted out? It's understandable that there be differences when Christianity was very new and when things were being sorted out, isn't it?
David,1) Differences show who is approved of by God.
2) Blaspheme against the Spirit is the only difference that cannot be overcome.
3) Heretics were thrown out of the church.
4) We seek for what the apostles knew.
Hi kerwin.So, if I teach that God burns bad people forever in hellfire, and that he is a mysterious unknowable trinity, but you teach the opposites, are these differences in belief ok? Who decides? Are you are I a heretic if such was the case? And which one of us? And who decides? Is it majority rule? The majority believe in a pope. So how does one get kicked out of a church that isn't really structured? How would you define “blaspheme against the Holy Spirit”?
David,The authorities are given the sword to wield for God.
They must give account to him for how they wield it and do not wield it.The authorities of heaven.net.nz kick some off the site, consign others to skeptics, and allow still others to converse in order to come to the true understanding of Scripture.
mikeboll64,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Jesus does. Satan doesn't. Mike,
Satan is as well.
God doesn't plan.
He just act, and fulfills through all his creatures' will without they themselves realize that it was HIM within them that they did all His will and not theirs!
It was through Satan's plan that God became man, always believing, and still believes,that he would achieve manhood,but he lost it on the cross in his first attempt,when Jesus never died ALTHOUGH MAN,but Satan did ALTHOUGH A SPIRIT, and achieved his kingdom!
John 12:24 Amen, amen I say to you, unless the grain of wheat falling into the ground die,25Itself remaineth alone. But if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world, keepeth it unto life eternal.
We all know that when the grain falls in a healthy ground it never really die,but it grows and brings fruit!
Jesus was referring to himself here to make us aware that he never really died the same as we do! But continued the spiritual process of his flesh body!
No matter how evil the world would become,GOD ALREADY WON THE WORLD THROUGHOUT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST THE ONLY TRUE GOD IN FLESH!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 31 2013,05:16) Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2013,21:58) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2013,22:58) Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2013,12:26) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2013,05:33) Quote (david @ Mar. 28 2013,11:19) “I love the church environment.”–jb2u hi Jb.
You will find almost no one on this forum who loves the church environment. I would say this forum is 95% anti-church, and perhaps, rightfully so.
But really, the word translated “church” just means “congregation,” and a congregation is a congregated people, not a building. People can gather anywhere, even on an Internet site. But, I am trying to figure out how some can think that a very divided group, some believing the trinity, some teaching against, some believing in hellfire, and some against, etc, can be “the true church,” teaching truth.
David.
Let the personal attacks begin.
David,I simply view us all as students whose goal should be seeking the true gospel of Christ.
The church as recorded in Scripture had differences in its members.
So, the big question then: are there any differences that are so big that they can't be overcome? Or any differences that are so big that you would say some aren't following Christ?And, while there were differences, weren't they sorted out? It's understandable that there be differences when Christianity was very new and when things were being sorted out, isn't it?
David,1) Differences show who is approved of by God.
2) Blaspheme against the Spirit is the only difference that cannot be overcome.
3) Heretics were thrown out of the church.
4) We seek for what the apostles knew.
Hi kerwin.So, if I teach that God burns bad people forever in hellfire, and that he is a mysterious unknowable trinity, but you teach the opposites, are these differences in belief ok? Who decides? Are you are I a heretic if such was the case? And which one of us? And who decides? Is it majority rule? The majority believe in a pope. So how does one get kicked out of a church that isn't really structured? How would you define “blaspheme against the Holy Spirit”?
David,The authorities are given the sword to wield for God.
They must give account to him for how they wield it and do not wield it.The authorities of heaven.net.nz kick some off the site, consign others to skeptics, and allow still others to converse in order to come to the true understanding of Scripture.
Kerwin,So the way heretics are thrown out of the church today or the way differences are overcome, is, the person with authority (the person that owns the website) removes the person that disagrees or teaches “false stories” or harmful demonic doctrine, “teachings of demons”?
If I create a website, then I become an authority? Is that how it works? The person in power decides? Since t8 doesn't believe in the trinity, that means the trinity teaching is wrong in is corner of the church?
What if I make a website teaching the opposite?
We know just believing in Jesus doesn't mean a lot. The demons have belief in Jesus. And many will say “lord, lord,” thinking they are doing right. So, what is the right thing?
T8 decides?
Quote The church as recorded in Scripture had differences in its members. Another question: how does one know they are in the church? Today, there are many differences in what “Christians” believe. You can find “Christians” who believe homosexuality is ok, and can find those who disagree; those who believe the universe is 6000 years old and those who,disagree. I could list 1000 things if I really tried.
If the church is made up of people that believe almost everything, the one uniting thing being that they believe Jesus existed, and died, most of the people's beliefs have to be wrong.
If only believing Jesus existed is necessary, how will heaven/paradise be any different than the earth now, it having the same people that the earth has today?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,06:10) Quote (Jeremy @ Mar. 30 2013,08:09) To me its clear that Jesus has free will to choose to stay in the will of God or go against him, otherwise why would Satan have tried to tempt him.
Good point, Jeremy. God created all of His sons with a free will. He apparently did not want robots who were hardwired to serve Him no matter what.Apparently, it is for God's own good pleasure that His creations CHOOSE to serve Him of their own free will.
Some of those children do, and some don't. Jesus does. Satan doesn't.
Absolutely. Who can argue against what you guys are saying here.
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