Non-trinity believing church?

[carmel]

Ed wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

“Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

Edj,

Explain:

the moment Jesus left them HE WAS VISIBLE AND ALSO A CLOUD received HIM and carried him!

ACTS 1:9 And when he had said these things, while they looked on,

he was raised up: STILL VISIBLE

and a cloud received him out of their sight. STILL VISIBLE SINCE HE WAS CARRIED BY THE CLOUD, OTHERWISE WHY WAS THE NEED OF THE CLOUD IF HE WAS IN A SPIRIT STATE?

10And while they were beholding him going up to heaven, STILL VISIBLE, SINCE THEY WERE BEHOLDING HIM, CARRIED BY THE CLOUD!

behold two men stood by them in white garments.

Who also said: Ye men of Galilee, why stand you looking up to heaven? This Jesus who is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come,

as you have seen him going into heaven. THEREFORE IN FLESH FORM SINCE HE WAS   SEEN GOING UP TO HEAVEN!

SO IT IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT, AS YOU ARE MAD ABOUT!

THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ONLY  ONE PERSON OF GOD

JESUS CHRIST IS THE GODHEAD IN FULL :

THE FATHER,    JESUS' SPIRIT!

THE HOLY SPIRIT  JESUS' SOUL !

THE SON'S SPIRIT JESUS' FLESH BODY!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ May 17 2013,12:56)

Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,17:42) Quote (Ed J @ May 17 2013,06:10) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,07:25) Quote (Ed J @ May 16 2013,20:50) Hi Kerwin, Do you believe that Jesus can only be in one place at a time? God bless Ed J Ed, Jesus is only in one place as a time.  Mosses was his fore-type and while Moses stood with Joshua in one place the spirit that was on Moses went to rest on the Seventy elders that God chose.  This bothered Joshua but Mosses expressed his hope that one day that same Spirit would come to rest on all God's children.  God gave Jesus the authority to choose who would receive it and rule them through it.  In this way Jesus lives in those that believe even though he is in one place at one time, just as Mosses was in his age. Hi Kerwin, So even though Jesus is “God's Son” – he doesn't have God qualities? – Is this verse not true?   “What he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.” (John 5:19) Can YHVH not be in more than one place at a time? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed, Jesus is like God in true holiness and righteousness and he is king of all things in heaven and earth but he is a creature and God is not.   Jesus has the Spirit working for him and that along gives him  quite a lot of power.  The angels and living beasts also do his bidding.  God is still his Council and Ruler.  That is more than enough to rule his kingdom. So your answer is “No” then?

Ed J,

The answer to the question “Does Jesus have all of God's characteristics” is no he does not.

[kerwin]

carmel,

Quote

All matter was spirit at one stage!

Before the beginning there was no time, no earth, no heaven, no light, and nothing else that has been created. Then God created both the heavens and the earth from nothing by his Utterance and through his Spirit. Matter/Energy and its heavenly counterpart was originally created from nothing.

Love, Soul, and God are three different kinds of spirit. None of them would remain what they are if converted to matter.

Quote

EVERYTHING WAS WELL PLANNED TO MAKE SURE THAT JESUS' BODY WOULD BE HIDDEN IN A GRAVE, AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AS SOON AS HE DIES, IN ORDER TO PREVENT THE TRUTH REGARDING JESUS' REAL IDENTITY!

Jesus' mortal and dead body had to lie in the grave on three days while his soul resided in the Paradise of Hades in order to fulfill what God foretold beforehand. That does not match up to what you say.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ May 17 2013,01:55)

Where can I hide from HIM?

Nowhere, Abe. There is no place any of us could ever go to “hide” from God Almighty.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ May 17 2013,14:13)

This Jesus who is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come, as you have seen him going into heaven. THEREFORE IN FLESH FORM SINCE HE WAS SEEN GOING UP TO HEAVEN!

Charles, couldn't the statement “he will return the same way he left” mean that he left on the clouds, and will return on the clouds?

Those words don't have to mean, he left AS FLESH and will return AS FLESH, do they?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,04:46)

Quote (carmel @ May 17 2013,14:13) This Jesus who is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come, as you have seen him going into heaven. THEREFORE IN FLESH FORM SINCE HE WAS   SEEN GOING UP TO HEAVEN! Charles, couldn't the statement “he will return the same way he left” mean that he left on the clouds, and will return on the clouds? Those words don't have to mean, he left AS FLESH and will return AS FLESH, do they?

Mike,

He, the Son of man, was seen as he ascended to the clouds and will be seen as he descends from the clouds as he comes to save the flesh that can be saved.

[mikeboll64]

Yes Kerwin. He was seen ascending on the clouds. He will return the same way, ie: being seen coming on the clouds.

Neither of these say anything about Jesus being the only flesh being in a heaven full of spirit beings. In fact, the very idea of that is absurd, if you ask me.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,05:37)

Yes Kerwin.  He was seen ascending on the clouds.  He will return the same way, ie:  being seen coming on the clouds. Neither of these say anything about Jesus being the only flesh being in a heaven full of spirit beings.  In fact, the very idea of that is absurd, if you ask me.

Mike,

He was flesh when he ascended.
He will be flesh when he returns.
He will not come to save souls.
He will come to save certain flesh, less it perish from the earth.

He disappeared in the clouds and he will appear in the clouds.

[david]

Why do you think he will be flesh when he returns? Do you think he is flesh now, in heaven?

[Proclaimer]

Scripture says that our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his.
Paul says that there is a physical and then a spiritual and that the physical is first.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ May 18 2013,07:59)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,05:37) Yes Kerwin.  He was seen ascending on the clouds.  He will return the same way, ie:  being seen coming on the clouds. Neither of these say anything about Jesus being the only flesh being in a heaven full of spirit beings.  In fact, the very idea of that is absurd, if you ask me. Mike, He was flesh when he ascended. He will be flesh when he returns. He will not come to save souls. He will come to save certain flesh, less it perish from the earth. He disappeared in the clouds and he will appear in the clouds.

K

why do you still believe that Christ will come back in the flesh

is this not put Christ back again into a lower level after he was glorified by his father yes it is,

he ,Christ as been glorified and sit on the right hand of his father so he can no longer be a man ,because the reason for it is now gone and done with ,God as given out his hand to us through him ,it is now for us to grab that outreached hand and change our way of live to God's way,

do not crucify Christ again ,by making him flesh again,

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ May 18 2013,18:11)

Quote (kerwin @ May 18 2013,07:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,05:37) Yes Kerwin.  He was seen ascending on the clouds.  He will return the same way, ie:  being seen coming on the clouds. Neither of these say anything about Jesus being the only flesh being in a heaven full of spirit beings.  In fact, the very idea of that is absurd, if you ask me. Mike, He was flesh when he ascended. He will be flesh when he returns. He will not come to save souls. He will come to save certain flesh, less it perish from the earth. He disappeared in the clouds and he will appear in the clouds. K why do you still believe that Christ will come back in the flesh is this not put Christ back again into a lower level after he was glorified by his father yes it is, he ,Christ as been glorified and sit on the right hand of his father  so he can no longer be a man ,because the reason for it is now gone and done with ,God as given out his hand to us through him ,it is now for us to grab that outreached hand and change our way of live to God's way, do not crucify Christ again ,by making him flesh again,

T,

Jesus will come in the same way he left.
He will come as the Son of man.

[kerwin]

Quote (david @ May 18 2013,10:15)

Why do you think he will be flesh when he returns?  Do you think he is flesh now, in heaven?

David,

His body is same body Adam and Eve had when they were created, not the body they had after the fall. Scripture states the pre-fall body was flesh and bone. Scripture also attests Jesus gave evidence his resurrected body is flesh and bone. Jesus ascended in the same body.

Jesus descends as he ascended.
He descends as the Son of man.

[kerwin]

Quote (t8 @ May 18 2013,11:27)

Scripture says that our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his. Paul says that there is a physical and then a spiritual and that the physical is first.

T8,

Actually translators with their bias wrote that.  It is a Gnostic translation.

Paul says that there is a soulish and then a spiritual and that the soulish is first.

It seems a clearly  derived from Scripture that states the soul is in the blood.

Soulish is defined as:

Quote

: relating to, involving, or suggesting the soul

A congruent definition for spirit is:

Quote

of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit

So if we go by the literal word and not some idiom selected by a biased translator a body that is involving the soul and one that is involving the Spirit. We know the fallen body involves the soul as Scripture teaches us the soul is in the blood. We know that it was the Spirit struggling with the characteristics of the fallen body that caused God to say enough and set an upper limit of 120 years to man.

Scriptures being addressed.

1 Corinthians 15:44(Recovery Version)

44 It is sown a 1asoulish body, it is raised a 1bspiritual cbody. If there is a soulish body, there is also a spiritual one.

441 A soulish body is a natural body animated by the soul, a body in which the soul predominates. A spiritual body is a resurrected body saturated by the spirit, a body in which the spirit predominates. When we die, our natural body, being soulish, will be sown, i.e., buried, in corruption, in dishonor, and in weakness. When it is resurrected, it will become spiritual in incorruption, in glory, and in power (vv. 42-43).

Leviticus 17:11
Darby Translation (DARBY)

11 for the soul of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul.

Genesis 6:3
King James Version (KJV)

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Note 1: My source for the definition of soulish is  the Merriam-Webster complete Unabridged Dictionary. The word “soulish” is temporarily available to non-subscribers.
Note 2: My source for the definition of Spiritual is Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary.
Note 3: I used different version because the Darby Translation did not translate “soulish” literally and the Recovery Version did.  The Recovery Version is New Testament only.  The comment on 1 Corinthians 15:44 is correct though I personally dislike the the claim that soulish is the idiom for natural. I used the KJV for Genesis 6:3 as it uses the word “strive” as opposed to “plead” which used by the Darby.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ May 18 2013,22:23)

Quote (terraricca @ May 18 2013,18:11) Quote (kerwin @ May 18 2013,07:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,05:37) Yes Kerwin.  He was seen ascending on the clouds.  He will return the same way, ie:  being seen coming on the clouds. Neither of these say anything about Jesus being the only flesh being in a heaven full of spirit beings.  In fact, the very idea of that is absurd, if you ask me. Mike, He was flesh when he ascended. He will be flesh when he returns. He will not come to save souls. He will come to save certain flesh, less it perish from the earth. He disappeared in the clouds and he will appear in the clouds. K why do you still believe that Christ will come back in the flesh is this not put Christ back again into a lower level after he was glorified by his father yes it is, he ,Christ as been glorified and sit on the right hand of his father  so he can no longer be a man ,because the reason for it is now gone and done with ,God as given out his hand to us through him ,it is now for us to grab that outreached hand and change our way of live to God's way, do not crucify Christ again ,by making him flesh again, T, Jesus will come in the same way he left. He will come as the Son of man.

Kerwin

he left “INVISIBLE “AND WILL COME BACK ” invisible “

READ REVELATION ,CHRIST AS MANY TITTLES AND “SON OF MAN ” IS ONE OF THEM EITHER IN HEAVEN OR PREVIOUSLY ON EARTH,BUT HE HIS NO LONGER A MAN NO PURPOSE FOR IT .

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ May 19 2013,00:53)

Quote (kerwin @ May 18 2013,22:23) Quote (terraricca @ May 18 2013,18:11) Quote (kerwin @ May 18 2013,07:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,05:37) Yes Kerwin.  He was seen ascending on the clouds.  He will return the same way, ie:  being seen coming on the clouds. Neither of these say anything about Jesus being the only flesh being in a heaven full of spirit beings.  In fact, the very idea of that is absurd, if you ask me. Mike, He was flesh when he ascended. He will be flesh when he returns. He will not come to save souls. He will come to save certain flesh, less it perish from the earth. He disappeared in the clouds and he will appear in the clouds. K why do you still believe that Christ will come back in the flesh is this not put Christ back again into a lower level after he was glorified by his father yes it is, he ,Christ as been glorified and sit on the right hand of his father  so he can no longer be a man ,because the reason for it is now gone and done with ,God as given out his hand to us through him ,it is now for us to grab that outreached hand and change our way of live to God's way, do not crucify Christ again ,by making him flesh again, T, Jesus will come in the same way he left. He will come as the Son of man. Kerwin he left “INVISIBLE “AND WILL COME BACK ” invisible “ READ REVELATION ,CHRIST AS MANY TITTLES AND “SON OF MAN ” IS ONE OF THEM EITHER IN HEAVEN OR PREVIOUSLY ON EARTH,BUT HE HIS NO LONGER A MAN NO PURPOSE FOR IT .

T,

Where is it written he left invisible?
He disappeared in the clouds.
He will reappear in the clouds.

The Son of man is a man or he is not the Son of man.

[carmel]

Quote

What it means is the RULER of Jesus is God.

Mike,

I AM DEFINITELY CONVINCED THAT it is absurdly silly of you to think the words “the head of Christ is God” means GOD IS THE RULER OVER CHRIST!

CHRIST, INDERCTLY IS THE GLORIFIED ALMIGHTY GOD IN BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH AND AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME CHRIST IS THE MOST POWERFUL SPIRIT AND IN COMMAND OVER ALL!

BOTH ALMIGHTY GOD AND CHRIST ARE TWO  IN ONE GLORY:

ACTS 7:55But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looking up steadfastly to heaven, saw

THE GLORY OF GOD, AND JESUS STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD…………. OK! THE GLORY OF GOD INCLUDES JESUS CHRIST, NOT GOD ONLY!

Now to THE HEAD!

CORINTHIANS 1:11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

In the beginning of the church there were  TWO HEADS!  PETER WHICH REPRESENTED  the OT.   CARNAL BODY FIGURE OF THE CHURCH

and JOHN WHICH REPRESENTED  THE OT. SPIRIT FIGURE OF THE CHURCHTHEREFORE THE WORD JESUS’ SPIRIT!

I COULD EXPAND ON THIS BUT SPACE AND TIME WILL NOT PERMIT!

So the only figure which the church lacked, obvious:

THE SOUL FIGURE OF THE CHURCH OF THE NT.

THE SOUL  HAD YET TO BE ESTABLISHED, SINCE IT HAD JUST BEEN REBORN, BORN AGAIN!

So Christ, the owner of all SOULS,  HIS SPIRIT SUBSTANCE,selected Paul TO REPRESENT the SOUL FIGURE of the church!

Only Jesus himself, therefore, could teach HIS OWN ATTRIBUTES, and PROPER GOSPEL ,REGARDING THE SOUL TO PAUL, WHICH PAUL HIMSELF PROUDLY DECLARED!

So Paul’s mission was to establish the PROPER CHURCH,REGARDING ITS SOUL  WHICH HE HIMSELF EVENTUALLY  DID SO, ON JESUS DIRECTION,THEREFORE HE IS THE  SOUL FIGURE OF THE CHURCH  FOR SURE!

SO DEFINITELY throughout his letters, Paul’s MAIN interest was to eradicate THE CORRUPTED CARNAL BELIEF  and what for him was   DUNG and to ESTABLISH THE SOUL IN IT’S APPROPRIATE PLACE WITHIN THE CHURCH! WHICH WAS NOT YET WITHIN THEIR UNDERSTANDING, and also it was not quite possible for Peter in his flaw character! As CARNAL FIGURE OF THE CHURCH!

IN FACT PAUL HAD A CONFLICT WITH HIM!

TYPICAL BETWEEN THE SOUL AND THE FLESH

The new believers were not ready to eradicate what was instituted within their minds for nearly two thousand years, they were simply reborn, born again and only milk was good for them!

THEREFORE:

Paul started his letter in this MANNER:

But I would have you know, SO THEY WERE NOT AWARE OF WHAT PAUL WAS GOING TO REVEAL TO THEM!WHICH WAS AND IS EXCLUSIVELY  FUNDAMENTAL FOR THE CHURCH

BUT  I WILL AGAIN CLARIFY WHAT IS THE TRUTH  IN MY NEXT POST!

BUT TO LEAVE YOU PONDER regarding what Paul meant and revealed!

REFLECT ON THESE:

THE RELATION BETWEEN THE:

HEAD AND BODY

IS THE SAME IN THE FOLOWING CONCEPTS,

OF ALL THE PAIRS OF ENTITIES IN THE LIST AT THE BOTTOM !

THE CONCEPTS:

THEY ARE OPPONENTS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE  AND PARTICULAR  SENSE!

THEY  BOTH NEED EACH OTHER!

THERE CANNOT BE THE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER!

SO THEY ARE EQUAL IN  THEIR RESPECTIVE AND  PARTICULAR SENSE!

SO THERE'S ONLY ONE WAY OUT TO FUNCTION PERFECTLY!

THAT IS:

TO UNITE AND BECOME ONE ENTITY FOR ETERNITY!

NOW:

JESUS CHRIST THE WORD MADE FLESH GOD IN FLESH, IS THE FIRST ONE THAT ACHIEVED ALL IN ALL OF THEM! OBVIOUS GOD!

ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM!

SO HERE IS THE LIST IN RESPECT TO THEIR INTRODUCTION IN THE BIBLE:

HEAD and BODY NO HEAD NO BODY, NO BODY NO HEAD!

MAN and WOMAN    THE HEAD (SOUL, LIFE) OF THE WOMAN IS THE MAN,

ADAM and EVE

SOUL and FLESH

CHRIST and MAN

FATHER and SON

GOD and CHRIST

NOW READ THEM, INCLUSIVE AND COMPARE !

AND

DISCOVER SOME TRUTH

MORE TO COME!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[carmel]

terraricca,May wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

he left “INVISIBLE “AND WILL COME BACK ” invisible “

Terraricca,

CAN YOU SEE SOMETHING INVISIBLE LEAVING AND ALSO COME BACK

I NEVER HEARD SUCH STUPIDITY SORRY!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[carmel]

mikeboll64,May wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

Those words don't have to mean, he left AS FLESH and will return AS FLESH, do they?

Mike,

YES FOR SURE!

JESUS DIDN'T DIE TO ACQUIRE SOMETHING TEMPORARY!

SO HE DIED TO UNITE HIS SOUL WITH HIS FLESH AS ONE BODY ETERNALLY

FOR THE FATHER TO BE ALL IN ALL ON THE LAST DAY!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[carmel]

kerwin,May wrote:

.

Quote

The answer to the question “Does Jesus have all of God's characteristics” is no he does not.

Kerwin:

John 17:10And all my things are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

Hebrews 1:2n these days hath spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed

HEIR OF ALL THINGS

by whom also he made the world

it says: ALL THINGS IN BOTH CASES!

SO JESUS OWNS ALSO THE TITLE OF GOD! never mind God's attributes!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[Author]

Posts