- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2013,09:33) Quote (david @ April 26 2013,13:14) Quote Babylon is a consumer of merchant goods. It sounds more like a country than anything else. Aren't 1/4 of all purchases done for Christmas (a religious holiday).
David,You may be correct but though Christmas might undergo a name change I do not see it being abolished as it makes money. Maybe zealots , who are not influenced by merchants, do it.
Babylon is destroyed and its destruction causes the merchants of the world great distress. That is only one characteristic of Babylon the Great.
Hi kerwin.Perhaps one day, the UN, whose mission statement includes “peace and security,” will decide that religion is a major factor in wars, death, and hatred, and attempt to abolish it. Certainly, if such a thing happened, the merchants would weep.
Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2013,09:33) Quote (david @ April 26 2013,13:14) Quote Babylon is a consumer of merchant goods. It sounds more like a country than anything else. Aren't 1/4 of all purchases done for Christmas (a religious holiday).
David,You may be correct but though Christmas might undergo a name change I do not see it being abolished as it makes money. Maybe zealots , who are not influenced by merchants, do it.
Babylon is destroyed and its destruction causes the merchants of the world great distress. That is only one characteristic of Babylon the Great.
Lets look at the characteristics:Rev 17:2
“Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot [babylon] who sits on many waters,”Does a country sit on many waters?
I would say religion does.“Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”
We know religion has been entangled and aligned with the kings of the earth. Politicians and kings have always used religion to control and to sway.
“Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.”
It seems like religion as a whole has been responsible for the disgusting things of the earth, and not a specific country.
“The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.”
Babylon the great, sits on many waters, meaning “nations.”
Again, it doesn't seem that this applies to a country to me.
“And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”
Again, it seems that Babylon isn't a country (a king of the earth) but it seems that Babylon has power or control or a system set up over the kings of the earth.
Quote (Ed J @ April 27 2013,13:23) Quote (jb2u @ April 28 2013,02:37)
I do not believe that this is suppose to be in the Bible. I believe that Jesus told his disciples to “baptize in my name.”Why do you suppose that the disciples NEVER baptized anyone in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit??
Hi John,They both mean the same, and here's how…
Go
ye therefore,
and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name ofthe Father (“YÄ-hä-vā”),
and of the Son (“YA-shu-a”),
and of the HolySirit (“The Word”):
Hi JB,Of course you and I realize that the original said “Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations in my name…….”.
That is the way that Eusebius (who inherited the library of Pamphilus, which was collected by Origen and Pamphilus) quoted that verse.
From the researcher F.C. Conybeare:
Eusebius cites this text (Matt. 28:19) again and again in works written between 300 and 336, namely in his long commentaries on the Psalms, on Isaiah, his Demonstratio Evangelica, his Theophany …in his famous history of the Church, and in his panegyric of the emperor Constantine. I have, after a moderate search in these works of Eusebius, found eighteen citations of Matthew 28:19, and always in the following form: ‘Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in My name, teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I commanded you.’As I see it, there are three possibilities:
1. Jesus DID tell them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and they all just completely ignored what Jesus told them, and did it the way THEY wanted to do it.
2. Jesus DID tell them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and they all just secretly knew that the Father and the Holy Spirit are also named “Jesus” – but didn't think it was important to tell anybody else about the Father's name change from “Yahweh” to “Jesus”.
3. Jesus told them to make disciples in HIS name, and they all did exactly as they were told.
Only one of them makes sense to me, Ed. Only one of them aligns with the rest of the scriptures. (And I'm not just talking about the fact that all baptisms in scripture were done in the name of Jesus only. I'm also referring to the rest of the scriptures, such as Acts 4:12 – “there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved”. I'm also referring to the parallel teaching in Luke 24:46-47 – “And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations.” Etc.)
“She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a lurking place of every unclean exhalation and a lurking place of every unclean and hated bird! 3 For because of the wine of the anger of her fornication all the nations have fallen victim, and the kings of the earth committed fornication with her, and the traveling merchants of the earth became rich due to the power of her shameless luxury.”
4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5”
ALL of the nations have fallen victim to Babylon. And, why would there be an urge to get out of a country? And, which country?
Kerwin,
This scripture I think makes it plain. Ask yourself if this seems to describe church as you read.
“Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again. 22 And the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp and of musicians and of flutists and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again, and no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again, 23 and no light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; because your traveling merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, for by your spiritistic practice all the nations were misled. 24 Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
Quote (carmel @ April 28 2013,00:11) Edj, NOTICE THE SINGULAR IN THE NAME NOT NAMES SO THEY ARE NOT THREE GODS.
BUT ONE GOD IN THREE DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS OF THE THREE RESPECTIVE PHASES !
Luke 9:26
Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in the glory of him, and of the Father, and of the holy angels.Charles, what do you make of the above verse? The word “glory” is singular. Do you think it means that Jesus, the holy angels, and the Father all have the SAME glory?
Or does it make more sense that it means, “the glory of him, and [the glory] of the Father, and [the glory] of the holy angels”?
Quote (david @ April 29 2013,01:43) Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2013,09:33) Quote (david @ April 26 2013,13:14) Quote Babylon is a consumer of merchant goods. It sounds more like a country than anything else. Aren't 1/4 of all purchases done for Christmas (a religious holiday).
David,You may be correct but though Christmas might undergo a name change I do not see it being abolished as it makes money. Maybe zealots , who are not influenced by merchants, do it.
Babylon is destroyed and its destruction causes the merchants of the world great distress. That is only one characteristic of Babylon the Great.
Hi kerwin.Perhaps one day, the UN, whose mission statement includes “peace and security,” will decide that religion is a major factor in wars, death, and hatred, and attempt to abolish it. Certainly, if such a thing happened, the merchants would weep.
David,The UN is attempting to establish a Universal religion pledged to preach their version of humanism. They may even support changing the names of religious holidays that sound too specific to a group of religions. Catholic is derived from a word meaning universal.
Quote (david @ April 29 2013,01:55) “And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” Again, it seems that Babylon isn't a country (a king of the earth) but it seems that Babylon has power or control or a system set up over the kings of the earth.
David,A theme of Scripture is that cities and countries are female while rulers are male.
Quote (david @ April 29 2013,01:51) “Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.” It seems like religion as a whole has been responsible for the disgusting things of the earth, and not a specific country.
David,The legal murder of children by abortion and of homosexual marriage are humanist teachings.
Quote (david @ April 29 2013,01:47) Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2013,09:33) Quote (david @ April 26 2013,13:14) Quote Babylon is a consumer of merchant goods. It sounds more like a country than anything else. Aren't 1/4 of all purchases done for Christmas (a religious holiday).
David,You may be correct but though Christmas might undergo a name change I do not see it being abolished as it makes money. Maybe zealots , who are not influenced by merchants, do it.
Babylon is destroyed and its destruction causes the merchants of the world great distress. That is only one characteristic of Babylon the Great.
Lets look at the characteristics:Rev 17:2
“Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot [babylon] who sits on many waters,”Does a country sit on many waters?
I would say religion does.
Davis,It is called multi-cultured and a country can have that characteristic.
Quote Again, stop isolating verses. Isaiah 45, NOT 45:15, Jb2u,
The above is only according to your worldly wisdom.
God was in reality HIDDEN IN SATAN'S SPIRIT !THE SPLITTING OF THE TEMPLE CURTAIN ON HIS DEATH WAS THE PROOF THAT HE WAS SO! UP TO THAT TIME!
1Corinthians 1:25For the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: I will catch the wise in their own craftiness. 20And again: The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
AND THE ABOVE IS ACCORDING GOD’S WISDOM!
THE WORD OF GOD IS THE MOST VAST, MESTERIOUS, AND COMPLEX WRITING EVER WRITTEN, AND IT IS NOT TIED WITH SYSTEMS, EXCEPT ITS OWN! EVERY DOT,NUMBER, DATE, TIME, AND CREATURE, MENTIONED HAS A PARTICULAR DEFINITION FOR VARIOUS MESSAGES!
NOW READ:
Mark 11:12And the next day when they came out from Bethania, he was hungry. 13And when he had seen afar off a fig tree having leaves, he came if perhaps he might find any thing on it. And when he was come to it, he found nothing but leaves. For it was not the time for figs. 14And answering he said to it: May no man hereafter eat fruit of thee any more for ever. And his disciples heard it.
Can you with your worldly wisdom explain:
HOW THE SON OF GOD EXPECTED TO EAT FIGS WHEN IT WAS NOT THE SEASON TO DO SO?
WHY DID JESUS DESTROYED THE THREE?
WASN’T IT AN EVIL ACT TO DO SO CONSIDERRING THAT HE WAS A PERFECT MAN?
AND WHAT THIS PARTICULAR EVENt HAS TO DO WITH THE WHOLE CHAPTER?
OR:
CAN YOU DEFINE ALL THE DETAILS MENTIONED IN THE MIRACLE OF THE BREAD?
Peace and love Jesus
Charles
Kerwin,
Ask yourself if this seems to describe church as you read.
“Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again. 22 And the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp and of musicians and of flutists and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again, and no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again, 23 and no light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; because your traveling merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, for by your spiritistic practice all the nations were misled. 24 Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
Singers and those who play the harp will never be heard in her again.
No bride or groom will ever be found in her again
The nations were mislead by her spiritistic practices.I'll go do so,e research
Quote (carmel @ April 24 2013,17:05) Quote (942767 @ April 24 2013,13:00) Quote And so, he himself has told us that he is not God in that he stated that he was going to ascend to his God and our God and to his Father and our Father. Marty,
Before I explain and define the above,WHICH YOU ARE INTERPRITING IT WRONGLY I asked you to define the word mediator
So FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS CHRIST OUR ONLY KIND OF FATHER AND GOD, please in the most clear ,literral and possible way, and in order to really uderstand each other,
what is a Mediator's job, in details in human terms THE ONLY WAY IN THE TRUTH!
FOR US HUMANS!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Hi Charles:And so, you are going to interpret what Jesus meant when he stated that he was going to ascend to his Father and his God and to my Father and my God?
That is what he said and does not require any interpretation.
As for the role of a mediator, this is what Strong's condordance states relative to the word “mediator” as used in 1 Timothy 2:5:
Number 3316
Transliteration:
mesites {mes-ee'-tace}
Word Origin:
from 3319
TDNT:
4:598,585
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
mediator 6Total: 6
Definition:
one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant
a medium of communication, arbitrator
TDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New TestamentIs this in human terms so that you can understand it?
In the OT on the day of atonement the High Priest went into the holy of holies appearing in the presence of God with blood for his sins and for the sins of the people of nation of Israel. This was the mediator in the OT. He is our High Priest in the NT, the mediator between men and God who appears in the very presence of God in heaven for each of us.
Quote 11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2013,06:57) Quote (Ed J @ April 27 2013,13:23) Quote (jb2u @ April 28 2013,02:37)
I do not believe that this is suppose to be in the Bible. I believe that Jesus told his disciples to “baptize in my name.”Why do you suppose that the disciples NEVER baptized anyone in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit??
Hi John,They both mean the same, and here's how…
Go
ye therefore,
and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name ofthe Father (“YÄ-hä-vā”),
and of the Son (“YA-shu-a”),
and of the HolySirit (“The Word”):
Hi JB,Of course you and I realize that the original said “Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations in my name…….”.
That is the way that Eusebius (who inherited the library of Pamphilus, which was collected by Origen and Pamphilus) quoted that verse.
From the researcher F.C. Conybeare:
Eusebius cites this text (Matt. 28:19) again and again in works written between 300 and 336, namely in his long commentaries on the Psalms, on Isaiah, his Demonstratio Evangelica, his Theophany …in his famous history of the Church, and in his panegyric of the emperor Constantine. I have, after a moderate search in these works of Eusebius, found eighteen citations of Matthew 28:19, and always in the following form: ‘Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in My name, teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I commanded you.’As I see it, there are three possibilities:
1. Jesus DID tell them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and they all just completely ignored what Jesus told them, and did it the way THEY wanted to do it.
2. Jesus DID tell them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and they all just secretly knew that the Father and the Holy Spirit are also named “Jesus” – but didn't think it was important to tell anybody else about the Father's name change from “Yahweh” to “Jesus”.
3. Jesus told them to make disciples in HIS name, and they all did exactly as they were told.
Only one of them makes sense to me, Ed. Only one of them aligns with the rest of the scriptures. (And I'm not just talking about the fact that all baptisms in scripture were done in the name of Jesus only. I'm also referring to the rest of the scriptures, such as Acts 4:12 – “there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved”. I'm also referring to the parallel teaching in Luke 24:46-47 – “And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations.” Etc.)
Hi MikeAnd here's how Jesus' name means THE EXACT SAME THING:
The name Father is [יה] YÄ,
the name of the son is [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă,
and the name of HolySpirit is [ישע] “SALVATION”!“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell
in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken
your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.” (Rom. 8:11)Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgSorry Ed,
That is just gobbledygook. The name “YHWH” does NOT equal “Yah Is Salvation”. Nor is the Holy Spirit of YHWH ever named in any scripture.
According to what you are attempting to claim, the “YAH” part represents the name of the Father, and the “SALVATION” part represents the name of the Holy Spirit. That would mean “IS” represents the name of Jesus.
Besides, how are you giving DIFFERENT names to the Father and the Holy Spirit, when you believe the Holy Spirit IS the Father?
That triune formula was added into the scriptures – just like the one in 1 John 5:7. All scholars now accept that the one in 5:7 was an addition. Perhaps in time we will find the smoking gun that proves 28:19 is an addition.
In the meantime, we do have MANY clues, and our God-given common sense to go by.
942767,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant
a medium of communication, arbitratorMarty,
ARE WE DOING THIS TO PLEASE OURSELVES,OR TO PLEASE AND FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD GOD FROM MY SIDE?
I AM SURE THAT YOU WOULD SAY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!
VERY WELL I ACCEPT IT FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD GOD , IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT GOD ALMIGHTY WOULD ALSO ACCEPT IT!
define:
I ascend to IN FULL AND MAKE SURE TO REFER TO STRONG'S,THEN PRAY THE HOLY SPIRIT[/B]
( I KNOW YOU WON'T PRAY TO THE HOLY SPIRIT, YOU PRAY TO GOD ONLY,JUST A SUGGESTION)
IN ORDER TO SEE THE RIGHT UNDERSTANDING!
I am sure that if you understand, of which I surely doubt, or you won't accept it even if the Holy Spirit shows you the truth, since you do not believe in him as God,
YOU PREFER NOT TO ADMIT BECAUSE OF YOUR PRIDE AS A HUMAN LIKE ME WOULD PREVENT IT!
NOW TO OUR PARTICULAR POINT OF DISCUSSION
YOU SAID:
one who intervenes between two,
PERFEECT
SO TO BE CLEAR THESE TWO PARTICULAR PARTIES ARE DEFINITELY ENEMIES,AND DIFFERENT IN EVERY SENSE NO?
Now let's say for our argument :
one is a Doctor and one is the most stupid garbage collector,
WHAT KIND OF A MEDIATOR SHOULD THESE TWO BEINGS LOOK FOR?
ANOTHER DOCTOR ?
A SOLICITOR ?
A COUNSELOR ?
PSYCHIATRIST ?
A SOCIOLOGIST ? AND SO ON! OR
ANOTHER GARBAGE COLLECTOR
OR A PERSON BOTH A DOCTOR AND A GARBAGE COLLECTOR?
IN ORDER TO BE PERFECT IN HIS INTERVENTIONS!
NO! NO! DO NOT RUSH TO CONCLUSIONS READ AND REFLECT FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!
Galatians 3:20 a mediator is not of one: but God is one WHY?
This is not just for you but for whoever is ready to answer in the truth!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
