- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 05 2013,19:00) Yes, I agree people are called Elohim and I alo understand that scripture can be wrong because Jesus is clearly pointing out that the scriptures themselves are calling people gods……….
So your answer is that Jesus was pointing out that scripture CAN be broken?
No, Asana. Jesus was saying that God called these other ones gods, and scripture CANNOT be broken.
The Jews accused him of making himself out to be a god (not “God” – as it is often inaccurately translated). And his answer to them was that if these ones who were lesser to him could be called gods by none other than God Himself, then what about the higher one who was set apart by God as special and sent into the world?
You've already lost the point anyway, because you admit that beings OTHER THAN Jehovah are called gods in scripture – many times BY Jehovah Himself.
If Jehovah called them elohim, then there is really nothing you can say to make Jehovah wrong, is there?
So you can twist and turn and say these were men or whatever, but it's no use. The bottom line is that Jehovah Himself said they were elohim, and therefore they WERE/ARE elohim.
So yes Virginia, there truly ARE many gods and many lords, both in heaven and on earth…………. exactly like Paul clearly told us there were.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 05 2013,10:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 05 2013,13:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,19:45) No, it is your only understanding in Islam there is no such misunderstading ALLAH can only be used in one way annever plural so there is never such confusion.
First of all, YOU quoted something from the Quran that had Allah referring to HIMSELF as “WE”, remember?Secondly, “Allah” isn't the NAME of our creator, but the Arabic word for “god”. It means the same thing as the Hebrew word “el”. The difference is that the “al” at the beginning of “Allah” represents the definite article, so it literally means “THE god”. And “THE god” is not the personal NAME of our creator. His NAME is YHWH.
Thirdly, I don't claim that there is more than one JEHOVAH, Asana. There is indeed only one JEHOVAH spoken of in scripture (although His representatives were sometimes addressed as “YHWH” – even though they weren't really YHWH Himself).
So there is ONE Jehovah, and He is the god OF other gods. He is the MOST HIGH god – which in itself insists that there must be less high gods for Him to be higher than.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,19:45) Adam didn't ask “which god” because the very question of “gods” happened with Satan making them believe such a thing.
The idea that Adam didn't KNOW about the existence of the other gods who were in Jehovah's heavenly counsel until he and Eve became LIKE those other gods (Gen 3:5 and 3:22) doesn't mean those other gods didn't exist.Nor does the fact that they are not mentioned until Gen 3:5 prove that Adam didn't know about them.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,19:45) Notice the word Jehovah was not even known at all until Moses………
That may be correct, depending on which way you understand Exodus 6:3. Many believe it should be translated as “Did I not make myself known to them as YHWH?” instead of “I did not make myself known to them as YHWH.”And there are good arguments both ways. For one, why would Moses then have to ask the name of who was sending him, if it should have been common knowledge?
But on the other hand, Moses quoted Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and a slew of others as directly calling Him “YHWH”………. long before Moses was told the name.
But let's assume that Moses IS the first human who knew the personal name YHWH. Do you know what the Israel story is all about?
Deuteronomy 32:8 NET ©
When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided up humankind, he set the boundaries of the peoples, according to the number of the heavenly assembly.The underlined part is, in Hebrew, “the sons of God”. And here is commentary from NET Bible:
For the MT יִשְׂרָאֵל בְּנֵי (bÿney yisra’el, “sons of Israel”) a Qumran fragment has “sons of God,” while the LXX reads ἀγγέλων θεοῦ (angelwn qeou, “angels of God”), presupposing בְּנֵי אֵל (bÿney ’el) or בְּנֵי אֵלִים (beney ’elim).
“Sons of God” is undoubtedly the original reading; the MT and LXX have each interpreted it differently. MT assumes that the expression “sons of God” refers to Israel (cf. Hos. 1:10), while LXX has assumed that the phrase refers to the angelic heavenly assembly (Pss 29:1; 89:6; cf. as well Ps 82). The phrase is also attested in Ugaritic, where it refers to the high god El’s divine assembly. According to the latter view, which is reflected in the translation, the Lord delegated jurisdiction over the nations to his angelic host (cf. Dan. 10:13-21), while reserving for himself Israel, over whom he rules directly.
Jehovah had appointed other spirit beings, His sons, over the various nations. The Prince of Persia in Daniel represents one of these sons of God – the one who was appointed over the Persian Kingdom.
Psalm 82 speaks about how Jehovah assembled with these other gods in heaven, and rendered judgment against them for screwing their assignments up so badly.
And from Moses on, the whole of scripture is about how Jehovah, the MOST HIGH God, finally had enough and chose one nation out of all the earth to rule directly as their God.
So these other nations had always had their own gods, Asana. That's the way Jehovah Himself had set it up, when he “set the boundaries of the peoples, according to the number of sons of God”.
It was only after these other gods ruled improperly that Jehovah Himself stepped in, and took for Himself a nation of His own.
That's why in Psalm 82, after listing all the things they had done badly, Jehovah says, “I have called you gods, but you will die like men”.
I'll get to the rest of your “points” soon.
Mike you answered yourselfQuote That's why in Psalm 82, after listing all the things they had done badly, Jehovah says, “I have called you gods, but you will die like men”. Can an actual God die like a man?
BodWhy would you think a god cannot die ,the Ps;82 does not at all talks about Jehovah God the almighty ,
So what is your answer
Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will **I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee**, it shall devour thee, and **I will bring thee to ashes** upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 06 2013,23:23)
If Jehovah called them elohim, then there is really nothing you can say to make Jehovah wrong, is there?
MikeThe Lord calls idols, the works of mans hands, gods, but does that mean they are real gods?
Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense Unto Other Gods, that they might provoke me to anger With All The Works Of Their Hands; therefore my wrath shall be poured out upon this place, and shall not be quenched. 2 Chron 34:25
And he took away the strange gods, and the idol out of the house of the LORD, and all the altars that he had built in the mount of the house of the LORD, and in Jerusalem, and cast them out of the city. 2Chron 33:15
How is it that Manasseh was able to take the strange gods and throw them out of the city if they were real gods?
It’s because the gods were the works of mans own hands which had no power or life.
And they spake against the God of Jerusalem, as against the gods of the people of the earth, WHICH WERE THE WORK OF THE HANDS OF MAN. 2 CHRON 32:19
You still have not shown any scriptural example of supernatural acts of the gods of the people have you?
For all the gods of the nations Are Idols: but the LORD made the heavens. Ps 96:5
WJ
Anyone worshipping idols are worshipping demons.
Idols can be anything.Money and mammon is worshipped by the majority,even by the non spiritual agnostics.
Sport can also be an idol.Holywood is an idol.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 07 2013,13:07) Boditharta. Polytheism is one that **WORSHIPS** more than one god.Not to them that believe that there are many of them gods.
Monotheism is one that **WORSHIPS** one god.
To believe in what Jesus said, that we are gods,and there are many gods,is not polytheism.
Because we dont **WORSHIP** them.We believe that Budha is a god to them that worship
Budha,this does not mean that we also worship him.If you dont believe that there are many gods in this world,
you are closing your eyes. They are false gods, but they
are worshipped by many as their true god.wakeup.
That is incorrect, Polytheism is the **BELIEF** in gods the belief is that more than one God exists it has nothing to do with Worship.Monotheism is the Belief that there is ONLY ONE GOD.
Jesus did not say anything about believing in gods nor did he say that we were gods he was asking a question which proved the point that we are not gods but by all rights if they were “called gods” he could call himself “Son of God”.
Jesus did say God was THE ONLY TRUE GOD which would mean He is the ONLY ACTUAL GOD
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 08 2013,09:48) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 07 2013,13:07) Boditharta. Polytheism is one that **WORSHIPS** more than one god.Not to them that believe that there are many of them gods.
Monotheism is one that **WORSHIPS** one god.
To believe in what Jesus said, that we are gods,and there are many gods,is not polytheism.
Because we dont **WORSHIP** them.We believe that Budha is a god to them that worship
Budha,this does not mean that we also worship him.If you dont believe that there are many gods in this world,
you are closing your eyes. They are false gods, but they
are worshipped by many as their true god.wakeup.
That is incorrect, Polytheism is the **BELIEF** in gods the belief is that more than one God exists it has nothing to do with Worship.Monotheism is the Belief that there is ONLY ONE GOD.
Jesus did not say anything about believing in gods nor did he say that we were gods he was asking a question which proved the point that we are not gods but by all rights if they were “called gods” he could call himself “Son of God”.
Jesus did say God was THE ONLY TRUE GOD which would mean He is the ONLY ACTUAL GOD
BODITHARTA.Didnt God fashioned Adam with his own hands?
Was Adam not made in the IMAGE OF GOD?
Are animals created in the image of God? NO.
Adam and Eve are specially made,without good nor evil experience: untill; they disobeyed God, then conscience sinks in,now they become as God.Behold; the man is become *AS* one of us,knowing good and evil.
NOT become one of us,but *AS*All the apostles are aware of many gods,and so are we.
We also know that they are all false gods,worshipped by the gentiles.We are not to worship any false gods nor man.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 08 2013,11:13) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 08 2013,09:48) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 07 2013,13:07) Boditharta. Polytheism is one that **WORSHIPS** more than one god.Not to them that believe that there are many of them gods.
Monotheism is one that **WORSHIPS** one god.
To believe in what Jesus said, that we are gods,and there are many gods,is not polytheism.
Because we dont **WORSHIP** them.We believe that Budha is a god to them that worship
Budha,this does not mean that we also worship him.If you dont believe that there are many gods in this world,
you are closing your eyes. They are false gods, but they
are worshipped by many as their true god.wakeup.
That is incorrect, Polytheism is the **BELIEF** in gods the belief is that more than one God exists it has nothing to do with Worship.Monotheism is the Belief that there is ONLY ONE GOD.
Jesus did not say anything about believing in gods nor did he say that we were gods he was asking a question which proved the point that we are not gods but by all rights if they were “called gods” he could call himself “Son of God”.
Jesus did say God was THE ONLY TRUE GOD which would mean He is the ONLY ACTUAL GOD
BODITHARTA.Didnt God fashioned Adam with his own hands?
Was Adam not made in the IMAGE OF GOD?
Are animals created in the image of God? NO.
Adam and Eve are specially made,without good nor evil experience: untill; they disobeyed God, then conscience sinks in,now they become as God.Behold; the man is become *AS* one of us,knowing good and evil.
NOT become one of us,but *AS*All the apostles are aware of many gods,and so are we.
We also know that they are all false gods,worshipped by the gentiles.We are not to worship any false gods nor man.wakeup.
Yes, **as** knowing good and evil not as in Power or Sovereignty.Yes, ALL are false gods except THE ONLY TRUE GOD which means “false” gods are not gods at all. There are no “gods” There is ONLY GOD ALMIGHTY and HE is GOD ALONE there are none else.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 08 2013,11:30) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 08 2013,11:13) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 08 2013,09:48) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 07 2013,13:07) Boditharta. Polytheism is one that **WORSHIPS** more than one god.Not to them that believe that there are many of them gods.
Monotheism is one that **WORSHIPS** one god.
To believe in what Jesus said, that we are gods,and there are many gods,is not polytheism.
Because we dont **WORSHIP** them.We believe that Budha is a god to them that worship
Budha,this does not mean that we also worship him.If you dont believe that there are many gods in this world,
you are closing your eyes. They are false gods, but they
are worshipped by many as their true god.wakeup.
That is incorrect, Polytheism is the **BELIEF** in gods the belief is that more than one God exists it has nothing to do with Worship.Monotheism is the Belief that there is ONLY ONE GOD.
Jesus did not say anything about believing in gods nor did he say that we were gods he was asking a question which proved the point that we are not gods but by all rights if they were “called gods” he could call himself “Son of God”.
Jesus did say God was THE ONLY TRUE GOD which would mean He is the ONLY ACTUAL GOD
BODITHARTA.Didnt God fashioned Adam with his own hands?
Was Adam not made in the IMAGE OF GOD?
Are animals created in the image of God? NO.
Adam and Eve are specially made,without good nor evil experience: untill; they disobeyed God, then conscience sinks in,now they become as God.Behold; the man is become *AS* one of us,knowing good and evil.
NOT become one of us,but *AS*All the apostles are aware of many gods,and so are we.
We also know that they are all false gods,worshipped by the gentiles.We are not to worship any false gods nor man.wakeup.
Yes, **as** knowing good and evil not as in Power or Sovereignty.Yes, ALL are false gods except THE ONLY TRUE GOD which means “false” gods are not gods at all. There are no “gods” There is ONLY GOD ALMIGHTY and HE is GOD ALONE there are none else.
Boditharta.I can see where you are coming from.
Those gods worshipped by the gentiles
are not really gods;all are fakes.But in reality they are worshipped as gods.They dont know,but we know.The gentiles/pagans have been worshipping gods
that are truly not gods for thousands of years
introduced by satan and his angels.This is why we should be very careful with religions.
Satan has been spreading them all over the globe
masquerading as teaching good and holy.wakeup.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 07 2013,04:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 06 2013,23:23)
If Jehovah called them elohim, then there is really nothing you can say to make Jehovah wrong, is there?
MikeThe Lord calls idols, the works of mans hands, gods, but does that mean they are real gods?
For all the gods of the nations Are Idols: but the LORD made the heavens. Ps 96:5
WJ
Keith,The Hebrew word which is often translated as “idols” in Psalm 96:5 is “elilim”. It means “worthless (things)”.
But the LXX translators rendered that word as “demons” in that psalm.
So the LXX says the gods of the nations are demons. And this is attested by Deut 32:17 and 1 Cor 10:20.
And notice this scripture:
Revelation 9:20
The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk.Notice how people worship BOTH demons AND man-made idols?
It is these LIVING gods that I'm talking about. Not the ones we all know are man made – and therefore not a god at all.
I'm talking about the ones in scripture that are called gods AND can live in and control the bodies of human beings. The ones who can tell the future, turn wooden staffs into snakes, produce frogs out of thin air, control fire from heaven and mighty winds, and bring wrath down upon the Israelite army.
All these things I've listed above I learned directly from scripture, Keith. I haven't made any of them up.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2013,16:48) That is incorrect, Polytheism is the **BELIEF** in gods the belief is that more than one God exists it has nothing to do with Worship.
IF you use the “belief in” definition of polytheism, instead of the “belief in AND worship of” definition, then you are right.And if that is the definition you want to use, then I am exactly as polytheistic as Moses, David, Jesus, and a score of other servants of God.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2013,18:30) Yes, ALL are false gods except THE ONLY TRUE GOD which means “false” gods are not gods at all.
Can you show me this “false god” thing you're talking about in scripture, Asana? Because I'm quite sure there is no such thing in scripture as a “false god”.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 08 2013,17:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2013,18:30) Yes, ALL are false gods except THE ONLY TRUE GOD which means “false” gods are not gods at all.
Can you show me this “false god” thing you're talking about in scripture, Asana? Because I'm quite sure there is no such thing in scripture as a “false god”.
Deuteronomy 32:17
They sacrificed to false gods, which are not God— gods they had not known, gods that recently appeared, gods your ancestors did not fear.Psalm 4:2
How long will you people turn my glory into shame? How long will you love delusions and seek false gods?Psalm 106:37
They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to false gods.Jeremiah 13:25
This is your lot, the portion I have decreed for you,” declares the Lord, “because you have forgotten me and trusted in false gods.Amos 2:4
This is what the Lord says: “For three sins of Judah, even for four, I will not relent. Because they have rejected the law of the Lord and have not kept his decrees, because they have been led astray by false gods, the gods their ancestors followed,Now just to let you understand what I am saying in other versions “False gods” are interpreted as devils
Deuteronomy 32:17 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter
17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God, to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
Now you consider “Demons and Devils” to be gods and that is where Ignorance comes in. If false gods can be translated as demons or devils then devils are not Actual gods.
Supernatural does not equal to being God if that isthe case ALL the angels are gods too is that what you think?
Boditharta.
Angels are gods;we are gods,but NOT worshipped
by true christians,only catholics.Devils in idols are false to us,but true gods to pagans.
There are many false gods worshipped.
God said it himself; they worship false gods.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 09 2013,11:01) Boditharta. Angels are gods;we are gods,but NOT worshipped
by true christians,only catholics.Devils in idols are false to us,but true gods to pagans.
There are many false gods worshipped.
God said it himself; they worship false gods.wakeup.
What does the word False mean?Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,06:13) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 09 2013,11:01) Boditharta. Angels are gods;we are gods,but NOT worshipped
by true christians,only catholics.Devils in idols are false to us,but true gods to pagans.
There are many false gods worshipped.
God said it himself; they worship false gods.wakeup.
What does the word False mean?
bodfalse ; means nothing ,ONLY IF YOU COMPARE IT TO SOME OTHER THING THEN ITS DEFINITION WILL SHOW
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,11:13) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 09 2013,11:01) Boditharta. Angels are gods;we are gods,but NOT worshipped
by true christians,only catholics.Devils in idols are false to us,but true gods to pagans.
There are many false gods worshipped.
God said it himself; they worship false gods.wakeup.
What does the word False mean?
Boditharta.False like; allah is Jehovah,this is false.
wakeup.
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 09 2013,11:21) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,06:13) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 09 2013,11:01) Boditharta. Angels are gods;we are gods,but NOT worshipped
by true christians,only catholics.Devils in idols are false to us,but true gods to pagans.
There are many false gods worshipped.
God said it himself; they worship false gods.wakeup.
What does the word False mean?
bodfalse ; means nothing ,ONLY IF YOU COMPARE IT TO SOME OTHER THING THEN ITS DEFINITION WILL SHOW
Then that would mean there are no gods except THE ONLY TRUE GODQuote (Wakeup @ Sep. 09 2013,15:58) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,11:13) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 09 2013,11:01) Boditharta. Angels are gods;we are gods,but NOT worshipped
by true christians,only catholics.Devils in idols are false to us,but true gods to pagans.
There are many false gods worshipped.
God said it himself; they worship false gods.wakeup.
What does the word False mean?
Boditharta.False like; allah is Jehovah,this is false.
wakeup.
When you say that is false what proof do you bring other than your own disapproval and speculation? Let's see if we can get to the bottom of this:As far as you know has there been any claims of divine beings claiming to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
Who would Allah be then that calls Jesus The Christ calls Satan an outcast and asks men to submit to righteous moral behaviour
Hi,
Ex.23:13 “Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and do not Mention the name of other gods, nor let them be heard from your mouth.
hea•then (ˈhi ðən)
n., pl. -thens, -then,
adj. n.
1. an unconverted individual of a people that do not acknowledge the God of the Bible or Koran; pagan.
2. an irreligious, uncultured, or uncivilized person.
adj.
3. of or pertaining to heathens; pagan.
4. irreligious, uncultured, or uncivilized.
[before 900; Middle English hethen, Old English hǣthen, c. Old Saxon hēthin, Old High German heidan, Old Norse heithinn, Gothic haithno (feminine n.); probably akin to heath]
hea′then•dom, n.
hea′then•ism, n.
hea′then•ize`, v.t., v.i. -ized, -iz•ing.
hea′then•ness, n.
syn: heathen, pagan are both applied to peoples who are not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim; these terms may also refer to irreligious peoples. heathen is often used of those whose religion is unfamiliar and therefore regarded as primitive, unenlightened, or uncivilized: heathen idols; heathen rites. pagan is most frequently used of the ancient Greeks and Romans who worshiped many deities: a pagan civilization.
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.Peace………………………..
“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and do not Mention the name of other gods, nor let them be heard from your mouth.Ex.23:13..
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
