No one could answer him

Blocked

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 25 2013,14:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,04:38)

Interesting, Asana. Because the Bible clearly says that Pharaoh's priests “did the same things”.

Read it again, you were mistaken

11 Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts: 12 Each one threw down his staff and it became a snake. But Aaron’s staff swallowed up their staffs.

Huh? Can't you see the words that I supersized?

I don't see the words, “Pharaoh's priests performed an illusion to make it seem like their staffs became snakes”, do you?

August 25, 2013 at 11:38 pm#356195

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 25 2013,15:08)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,04:58)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2013,13:22)

Mike, I haven't confessed anyone but Jesus as my Lord.

Matthew 22
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

38 This is the first and greatest commandment.”

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth…….”

Acts 17:24
“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth…….”

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2013,13:22)

Suppose my master after the flesh wants me to do something that is contrary to the Word of God, should I obey him?

Acts 5:29
Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings!”

If the commands of your earthly lords contradict the commands of your heavenly Lords, then you should obviously obey the heavenly Lords above all others.

Hi Mike:

This is what the scripture states:

Quote

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

By confessing Jesus as my Lord, I am submitted to the LORD of heaven and earth through his Word.

If I am doing what I do as a service unto the Lord and unto man, I will be obeying God rather than man in all that I do.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty,

You are DODGING the issue. What I want to hear is that you DO acknowledge the Father as your heavenly Lord and Master as well as Jesus.

Can you say that? Or do you NOT acknowledge the Father as your Lord and Master?

Which one?

August 25, 2013 at 11:40 pm#356196

Blocked

Quote (Colter @ Aug. 25 2013,14:50)

Yes, the plagues should be an obveous exageration to those who know Jesus.

It was Jesus who told us that scripture cannot be broken.

Colter, do you believe that Satan has the power to command mighty winds, fire from heaven, and various human beings – as detailed in Job 1?

Or do you believe Satan has no power over these things at all?

Which one?

August 26, 2013 at 1:10 am#356211

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,10:40)

Quote (Colter @ Aug. 25 2013,14:50)

Yes, the plagues should be an obveous exageration to those who know Jesus.

It was Jesus who told us that scripture cannot be broken.

Colter, do you believe that Satan has the power to command mighty winds, fire from heaven, and various human beings – as detailed in Job 1?

Or do you believe Satan has no power over these things at all?

Which one?

No, I believe Satan was Lucifers assistant, below him in rank and power.

Satan was one of the Creator Sons celestial children in the administration of Micheals domain.

Lucifer rebelled leading many with him…” there was war in heaven”

Let's call all of them the devil, thei primary contention was that the unseen Father did not really exist. They know the creator Son as their Father but the Universal Father was also a matter of faith for the devil.

No, Satan only had the power to promote ideas, not wind and fire. Job is a parable.

Jesus defeated the Devil, they ar gone now locked up or dead.

Colte

August 26, 2013 at 1:34 am#356213

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,10:36)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 25 2013,14:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,04:38)

Interesting, Asana. Because the Bible clearly says that Pharaoh's priests “did the same things”.

Read it again, you were mistaken

Huh? Can't you see the words that I supersized?

I don't see the words, “Pharaoh's priests performed an illusion to make it seem like their staffs became snakes”, do you?

It doesn't say by the power of their “gods” it says “by their secret arts” They were performing magic not creating Miracles

August 26, 2013 at 11:13 am#356230

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 26 2013,12:34)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,10:36)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 25 2013,14:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,04:38)

Interesting, Asana. Because the Bible clearly says that Pharaoh's priests “did the same things”.

Read it again, you were mistaken

Huh? Can't you see the words that I supersized?

I don't see the words, “Pharaoh's priests performed an illusion to make it seem like their staffs became snakes”, do you?

It doesn't say by the power of their “gods” it says “by their secret arts” They were performing magic not creating Miracles

Magic is BS, it's not real. A magician has no special powers, just tricks and gimmicks. I thought grown men knew that??

Colter

August 26, 2013 at 3:38 pm#356238

942767

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,10:38)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 25 2013,15:08)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,04:58)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2013,13:22)

Mike, I haven't confessed anyone but Jesus as my Lord.

Matthew 22
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

38 This is the first and greatest commandment.”

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth…….”

Acts 17:24
“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth…….”

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2013,13:22)

Suppose my master after the flesh wants me to do something that is contrary to the Word of God, should I obey him?

Acts 5:29
Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings!”

If the commands of your earthly lords contradict the commands of your heavenly Lords, then you should obviously obey the heavenly Lords above all others.

Hi Mike:

This is what the scripture states:

Quote

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

By confessing Jesus as my Lord, I am submitted to the LORD of heaven and earth through his Word.

If I am doing what I do as a service unto the Lord and unto man, I will be obeying God rather than man in all that I do.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty,

You are DODGING the issue. What I want to hear is that you DO acknowledge the Father as your heavenly Lord and Master as well as Jesus.

Can you say that? Or do you NOT acknowledge the Father as your Lord and Master?

Which one?

No, Mike, I am not your robot so that you can try to program me to answer either this or that.

I have already answered you by stating that I was submitted to God through my Lord Jesus.

Jesus stated that he was my master, and he indicated that he has reconciled me to His God and Father, and to my God and Father.

To post this scripture again:

Quote

1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him

Quote

Jhn 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for [so] I am

Love in Christ,
Marty

August 26, 2013 at 5:41 pm#356241

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Aug. 26 2013,22:13)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 26 2013,12:34)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,10:36)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 25 2013,14:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,04:38)

Interesting, Asana. Because the Bible clearly says that Pharaoh's priests “did the same things”.

Read it again, you were mistaken

Huh? Can't you see the words that I supersized?

I don't see the words, “Pharaoh's priests performed an illusion to make it seem like their staffs became snakes”, do you?

It doesn't say by the power of their “gods” it says “by their secret arts” They were performing magic not creating Miracles

Magic is BS, it's not real. A magician has no special powers, just tricks and gimmicks. I thought grown men knew that??

Colter

Of course it's not real that's what I told you it was an illusion but what Moses did was REAL

August 26, 2013 at 6:10 pm#356242

Ed J

Participant

Hi BD,

What do “YOU” mean by monotheist?
and
What do “YOU” mean by polytheist?

August 26, 2013 at 11:26 pm#356266

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2013,09:38)

No, Mike, I am not your robot so that you can try to program me to answer either this or that.

It's a very simple question, Marty. I'm not trying to tell you how to answer it, but I am tired of you dodging the question altogether.

Here is the question again, with no stipulations from me about how you answer it:

Marty, do you acknowledge the one Jesus called “the Lord of heaven and earth” as your own Lord?

I would like to see either a clear affirmative answer, or a clear negative answer.

August 26, 2013 at 11:54 pm#356268

Blocked

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 25 2013,19:34)

It doesn't say by the power of their “gods” it says “by their secret arts” They were performing magic not creating Miracles

Asana,

What you're saying is that EVEN THOUGH we know that no human being has the power to turn wooden staffs into living snakes, water into blood, and produce frogs all over the land out of thin air – you will still call this an illusion created by men.

And EVEN THOUGH the scriptures say that these priests did THE SAME THINGS, and not that they “did illusions that LOOKED LIKE they were doing the same things” – you will still ADD that part into the scriptures, and conclude that this is what happened – despite there being no SCRIPTUAL reason to do so.

And EVEN THOUGH after the “showdown”, Jehovah not only punished the humans and beasts of Egypt, but also the GODS OF EGYPT – you will still pretend that these gods had no part in the “showdown”, but instead were apparently man-made idols that weren't involved in the
“showdown” in any way, and that Jehovah was somehow able to “render judgment against” man-made idols, and decided to do so, even though these man-made idols hadn't done a single thing against Him.

That, my friend, is nothing but pure denial.

I will continue to understand the scriptures as they were written, and not add and twist things when it becomes clear to me that they are teaching things that I don't WANT them to teach.

So, here's where we are so far:

You have eliminated the gods of Egypt by pretending that men can do magic tricks that turn wood into real snakes, water into real blood, and produce real frogs out of thin air……. even though the scripture clearly and many times say the priests DID THE SAME THINGS as Moses and Aaron did by the power of their God, Jehovah.

And Colter has eliminated the signs and wonders Satan performed in Job 1 and 2 by eliminating that teaching altogether by calling it a made-up story for kids.

Can WE talk about Job 1 and 2 now? Or will you take Colter's lead and also pretend the things described in those two chapters didn't really happen?

August 27, 2013 at 12:07 am#356271

Blocked

Colter,

When we get to a topic where you are ready to defend your claims USING SCRIPTURE – I will have more to say to you. I always walk away from a discussion where I'm showing things from scripture, and the other person is only allowing the scriptures he WANTS to allow.

When the discussion gets to that place, what's really the point?

So don't take it personally – but I can't have a SCRIPTURAL discussion with someone who is only willing to accept those scriptures that align perfectly with the gospel preached in his new fangled book.

I mean, really, there are SO MANY scriptures that clearly contradict the teachings in your UB – but you've just decided to not accept those particular scriptures – opting instead to tell us which scriptures are real, and which ones were made up stories for kids, or made up by pissed off Jews in exile, or made up by Paul, etc, etc, etc.

What kind of Biblical truth would there be left if everybody did what you do? I'm used to people doing what Asana has done with the 10 plagues scriptures – adding and twisting so they come out the way he want's them to. But I'm not as accustomed to people just up and ELIMINATING whole books and teachings when they don't suit their purpose.

Take care. I'm sure I will still be popping in and out of your discussions on occasion, pointing out the scriptures that CLEARLY contradict the latest UB claim you've just made.

August 27, 2013 at 4:00 pm#356321

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2013,11:07)

Colter,

When the discussion gets to that place, what's really the point?

Take care. I'm sure I will still be popping in and out of your discussions on occasion, pointing out the scriptures that CLEARLY contradict the latest UB claim you've just made.

I understand Mike and I don't take these things personally. I will answer your questions:

1) There is no point, even God couldn't reveal anything new to you that’s “not in the scripture”. The fact that Jesus was rejected, because he was very different from the scripture, is somehow lost in the Biblical idolatry of today.

2) Religious authorities have often feared to allow the people to think for themselves.

Colter

August 27, 2013 at 6:45 pm#356325

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 27 2013,05:10)

Hi BD,

What do “YOU” mean by monotheist?
and
What do “YOU” mean by polytheist?

Monotheism is the Belief in ONE SINGULAR BEING who is GOD without partners…etc.

Polytheism is the belief in “gods” any amount over 1 in number or personalities

August 27, 2013 at 6:58 pm#356327

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2013,10:54)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 25 2013,19:34)

It doesn't say by the power of their “gods” it says “by their secret arts” They were performing magic not creating Miracles

Asana,

That, my friend, is nothing but pure denial.

I will continue to understand the scriptures as they were written, and not add and twist things when it becomes clear to me that they are teaching things that I don't WANT them to teach.

So, here's where we are so far:

And Colter has eliminated the signs and wonders Satan performed in Job 1 and 2 by eliminating that teaching altogether by calling it a made-up story for kids.

Can WE talk about Job 1 and 2 now? Or will you take Colter's lead and also pretend the things described in those two chapters didn't really happen?

Surah 20

56 And indeed We showed him [Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] all Our Ayat (signs and evidence), but he denied and refused.

57 He [Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] said: “Have you come to drive us out of our land with your magic, O Musa (Moses)?

58 “Then verily, we can produce magic the like thereof; so appoint a meeting between us and you, which neither we nor you shall fail to keep, in an open place where both shall have a just and equal chance (and beholders could witness the competition).”

59 [Musa (Moses)] said: “Your appointed meeting is the day of the festival, and let the people assemble when the sun has risen (forenoon).”

60 So Fir'aun (Pharaoh) withdrew, devised his plot and then came back.

61 Musa (Moses) said to them: “Woe unto you! Invent not a lie against Allah, lest He should destroy you completely by a torment. And surely, he who invents a lie (against Allah) will fail miserably.”

62 Then they debated one with another what they must do, and they kept their talk secret.

63 They said: “Verily these are two magicians. Their object is to drive you out from your land with magic, and overcome your chiefs and nobles.

64 “So devise your plot, and then assemble in line. And whoever overcomes this day will be indeed successful.”

65 They said: “O Musa (Moses)! Either you throw first or we be the first to throw?”

66 [Musa (Moses)] said: “Nay, throw you (first)!” Then behold! their ropes and their sticks, by their magic, appeared to him as though they moved fast.

67 So Musa (Moses) conceived fear in himself.

68 We (Allah) said: “Fear not! Surely, you will have the upper hand.

69 “And throw that which is in your right hand! It will swallow up that which they have made. That which they have made is only a magician's trick, and the magician will never be successful, to whatever amount (of skill) he may attain.”

70 So the magicians fell down prostrate. They said: “We believe in the Lord of Harun (Aaron) and Musa (Moses).”

71 [Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] said: “Believe you in him [Musa (Moses)] before I give you permission? Verily he is your chief who has taught you magic. So I will surely cut off your hands and feet on opposite sides, and I will surely crucify you on the trunks of date-palms, and you shall surely know which of us can give the severe and more lasting torment.”

72 They said: “We prefer you not over what have come to us of the clear signs and to Him (Allah) Who created us. So decree whatever you desire to decree, for you can only decree (regarding) this life of the world.

73 “Verily we have believed in our Lord, that He may forgive us our faults, and the magic to which you did compel us. And Allah is better as regards reward in comparison to your [Fir'aun's (Pharaoh)] reward, and more lasting (as regards punishment in comparison to your punishment).”

So now I ask you who created Heaven, Earth, all the worlds and man too?

I watch magic all the time and the illusions are quite convincing but they are TRICKS. You should easily concede this point and this is why I said READ the QURAN it will clear up many misconceptions

August 27, 2013 at 7:19 pm#356329

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 28 2013,05:58)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2013,10:54)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 25 2013,19:34)

It doesn't say by the power of their “gods” it says “by their secret arts” They were performing magic not creating Miracles

Asana,

That, my friend, is nothing but pure denial.

I will continue to understand the scriptures as they were written, and not add and twist things when it becomes clear to me that they are teaching things that I don't WANT them to teach.

So, here's where we are so far:

And Colter has eliminated the signs and wonders Satan performed in Job 1 and 2 by eliminating that teaching altogether by calling it a made-up story for kids.

Can WE talk about Job 1 and 2 now? Or will you take Colter's lead and also pretend the things described in those two chapters didn't really happen?

Surah 20

56 And indeed We showed him [Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] all Our Ayat (signs and evidence), but he denied and refused.

57 He [Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] said: “Have you come to drive us out of our land with your magic, O Musa (Moses)?

58 “Then verily, we can produce magic the like thereof; so appoint a meeting between us and you, which neither we nor you shall fail to keep, in an open place where both shall have a just and equal chance (and beholders could witness the competition).”

59 [Musa (Moses)] said: “Your appointed meeting is the day of the festival, and let the people assemble when the sun has risen (forenoon).”

60 So Fir'aun (Pharaoh) withdrew, devised his plot and then came back.

61 Musa (Moses) said to them: “Woe unto you! Invent not a lie against Allah, lest He should destroy you completely by a torment. And surely, he who invents a lie (against Allah) will fail miserably.”

62 Then they debated one with another what they must do, and they kept their talk secret.

63 They said: “Verily these are two magicians. Their object is to drive you out from your land with magic, and overcome your chiefs and nobles.

64 “So devise your plot, and then assemble in line. And whoever overcomes this day will be indeed successful.”

65 They said: “O Musa (Moses)! Either you throw first or we be the first to throw?”

66 [Musa (Moses)] said: “Nay, throw you (first)!” Then behold! their ropes and their sticks, by their magic, appeared to him as though they moved fast.

67 So Musa (Moses) conceived fear in himself.

68 We (Allah) said: “Fear not! Surely, you will have the upper hand.

69 “And throw that which is in your right hand! It will swallow up that which they have made. That which they have made is only a magician's trick, and the magician will never be successful, to whatever amount (of skill) he may attain.”

70 So the magicians fell down prostrate. They said: “We believe in the Lord of Harun (Aaron) and Musa (Moses).”

71 [Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] said: “Believe you in him [Musa (Moses)] before I give you permission? Verily he is your chief who has taught you magic. So I will surely cut off your hands and feet on opposite sides, and I will surely crucify you on the trunks of date-palms, and you shall surely know which of us can give the severe and more lasting torment.”

72 They said: “We prefer you not over what have come to us of the clear signs and to Him (Allah) Who created us. So decree whatever you desire to decree, for you can only decree (regarding) this life of the world.

73 “Verily we have believed in our Lord, that He may forgive us our faults, and the magic to which you did compel us. And Allah is better as regards reward in comparison to your [Fir'aun's (Pharaoh)] reward, and more lasting (as regards punishment in comparison to your punishment).”

So now I ask you who created Heaven, Earth, all the worlds and man too?

I watch magic all the time and the illusions are quite convincing but they are TRICKS. You should easily concede this point and this is why I said READ the QURAN it will clear up many misconceptions

Boditharta.

You believe that allah created all things.
You also believe that God created all things.

BUT; you'r rejecting *his right hand* the one that did the work.
For all things are made by him and for him.

You will not accept mohamad but at the same time
rejecting his word,and his work,will you?

I know;you accept Jesus;but only as a prophet.
Jesus is sitting next to God in heaven;I dont read anywhere that mohamad is sitting even near God.

wakeup.

August 27, 2013 at 7:42 pm#356330

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 28 2013,06:19)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 28 2013,05:58)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2013,10:54)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 25 2013,19:34)

It doesn't say by the power of their “gods” it says “by their secret arts” They were performing magic not creating Miracles

Asana,

That, my friend, is nothing but pure denial.

I will continue to understand the scriptures as they were written, and not add and twist things when it becomes clear to me that they are teaching things that I don't WANT them to teach.

So, here's where we are so far:

And Colter has eliminated the signs and wonders Satan performed in Job 1 and 2 by eliminating that teaching altogether by calling it a made-up story for kids.

Can WE talk about Job 1 and 2 now? Or will you take Colter's lead and also pretend the things described in those two chapters didn't really happen?

Surah 20

So now I ask you who created Heaven, Earth, all the worlds and man too?

I watch magic all the time and the illusions are quite convincing but they are TRICKS. You should easily concede this point and this is why I said READ the QURAN it will clear up many misconceptions

Boditharta.

You believe that allah created all things.
You also believe that God created all things.

BUT; you'r rejecting *his right hand* the one that did the work.
For all things are made by him and for him.

You will not accept mohamad but at the same time
rejecting his word,and his work,will you?

I know;you accept Jesus;but only as a prophet.
Jesus is sitting next to God in heaven;I dont read anywhere that mohamad is sitting even near God.

wakeup.

Jesus didn't create anything but you just read it to mean that unless you do not believe what God said:

Isaiah 44:24
Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

When I read that I know God is saying 100% By Himself so when I read something else I have to see it in light of that fact.

Psalm 86:10
For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

If God exalts Jesus that doesn't make Jesus his partner or co-creator it just makes Jesus exalted for his own accomplishments. Now where are the verses with Jesus saying he created ANYTHING?

August 27, 2013 at 8:24 pm#356331

Participant

The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”

Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

Colter

August 27, 2013 at 8:36 pm#356332