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Quote (942767 @ April 30 2012,09:03) Quote (kerwin @ April 29 2012,13:20) Quote (942767 @ April 29 2012,04:15) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 23 2012,08:07) Hi 94,
Unusual for you to make such speculations.
Joshua exists.
Hi Nick:True, but this is the only scripture that I can find which may have anything to do with the scripture about the body of Moses in Jude.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Scripture declares that God buried Mosses in a certain land but that his grave was not found there.
We were earlier told that in a like manner Enoch was not because God took him.
Hi Kerwin:If that is what the scripture states, then we can state this, but there is no scripture that states that Moses body ascended into heaven.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Proverbs 25:2
New King James Version (NKJV)2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.God proposes mysteries. Man seeks the answer. God asks “what happened to Mosses grave though the people of that day knew where he was buried?”
One clue we have is that Enoch was not because God took him. Other clues are that Elijah, who God also took; was not found.
Zachariah's word's about the dispute between Satan and an angel of God over the high priest Joshua; who sat on the seat of Mosses; is another clue.
The visitation by Elijah and Mosses is yet another clue.
Jude's words are even yet another clue and the way it is used reveal his listeners are familiar with his reference.
There are other clues God has given us in Scripture and his reason for the mystery and clues is easily discerned for it is written:
Quote 2 Timothy 3:16
New International Version (NIV)16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2012,08:13) Hi KW,
Why must scripture state as you demand?
Nick,It is not what I demand but what God demands. It does not say that Enoch died as you wish it to say. It does state Enoch was not because God took him.
Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2012,16:21) Gene, That is not what Scripture states. Scripture explicitly states “Enoch is not because God took him”. On the other hand it states those Father's who were not still living had died.
Genesis 5:24 NET ©
Enoch walked with God, and then he disappeared 1 because God took 2 him away.Footnote #2 says:
The text simply states that God took Enoch. Similar language is used of Elijah’s departure from this world (see 2 Kgs 2:10). The text implies that God overruled death for this man who walked with him.2 Kings 2
9 When they had crossed over, Elijah said to Elisha, “What can I do for you, before I am taken away from you?” Elisha answered, “May I receive a double portion of the prophetic spirit that energizes you.”10 Elijah replied, “That’s a difficult request! If you see me taken from you, may it be so, but if you don’t, it will not happen.”
11 As they were walking along and talking, suddenly a fiery chariot pulled by fiery horses appeared. They went between Elijah and Elisha, and Elijah went up to heaven in a windstorm.
It is a scriptural FACT that Elijah was taken up to heaven. And there is strong scriptural evidence that the same happened to Enoch.
I don't know about Moses, but it sure seems to me that if he was there and alive at Jesus' transfiguration, there is a good possibility that he also never tasted death, but was taken up to heaven upon his earthly demise. And the fact that Elijah, who we KNOW was taken up to heaven, was the one with Moses at Jesus' transfiguration, implies that they both experienced the same fate upon exhausting their earthly lives.
And don't forget the souls under the altar in Revelation. It is clear from the scriptures that these souls belonged to human beings who were killed for remaining loyal to God and His Christ even under extreme duress.
Certain men have been taken to heaven without first having to “taste death” (spend time in Sheol) – just as Jesus implied.
No one can argue about Elijah. And there is ample scriptural evidence for Moses, Enoch, and those mentioned in Revelation to support the belief that certain men are taken up to heaven upon their earthly demise.
It is what I believe.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2012,08:41) Hi KW,
It does not say he died.
So you assume he didn't?
Nick,I am confident Scripture declares that instead of dying he was not found because God took him; not just his soul.
Luke 12:20
King James Version (KJV)20But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
Quote (kerwin @ May 01 2012,21:33) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2012,08:41) Hi KW,
It does not say he died.
So you assume he didn't?
Nick,I am confident Scripture declares that instead of dying he was not found because God took him; not just his soul.
Luke 12:20
King James Version (KJV)20But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
Kerwinread this
GE 5:24 Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
HEB 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.what is it say
?Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2012,09:37) Quote (kerwin @ May 01 2012,21:33) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2012,08:41) Hi KW,
It does not say he died.
So you assume he didn't?
Nick,I am confident Scripture declares that instead of dying he was not found because God took him; not just his soul.
Luke 12:20
King James Version (KJV)20But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
Kerwinread this
GE 5:24 Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
HEB 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.what is it say
?
Pierre,Enoch was “taken up” by God.
It should be clear to you where God took him up to.
He did not “see death” because he did not die.
This is a witness that if you please God you will inherit eternal life.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2012,08:52) Hi MB,
Which of the three heavens?
Can you prove it was God's abode?
Nick,I can prove that just as Jesus ascended to heaven; so did Elijah and just as Jesus was taken up because he pleased God; so was Enoch.
The sky is part of this world and though Jesus spoke from the clouds in the sky; he is not in the sky. Was he speaking from space or from a place that is not.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2012,11:43) Hi KW,
So from what is revealed we make assumptions?
Nick,It is true that you make assumptions for you are not seeking to understand these things. Seek for understanding from God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2012,13:11) Hi KW,
So you do not understand the three heavens?
Nick,I question calling outer space a different heaven than the “expanse” of the Sky.
Here is what Genesis actually states.
Genesis 1
King James Version (KJV)14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.The Sun and moon, which are in outer space, are set “in” the expanse. So are the lights.
To All………….2 Ki 2:11…….> And it came to pass as they still went on, and talked , that behold there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven (SKY). The word heaven can mean lofty places or SKY according to Strong's. Mystery religion has produced many many, false “ASSUMPTIONS” over time.
No where does it say He went up to heaven as regarding God Abode and never died as many assume it say. But no scripture says that that is just an assumption, without scriptural support.
All you who care to search can find where latter Elijah wrote the King a Letter . Elijah like all the Prophets of old, (ALL) died, not receiving the Promise. The only one who has attained to eternal life and a resurrection for the dead is Jesus , He is the “FIRST” Born from the dead and is the Only one at this time. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 01 2012,21:25) To All………….2 Ki 2:11…….> And it came to pass as they still went on, and talked , that behold there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven (SKY). The word heaven can mean lofty places or SKY according to Strong's. Mystery religion has produced many many, false “ASSUMPTIONS” over time. No where does it say He went up to heaven as regarding God Abode and never died as many assume it say. But no scripture says that that is just an assumption, without scriptural support.
All you who care to search can find where latter Elijah wrote the King a Letter . Elijah like all the Prophets of old, (ALL) died, not receiving the Promise. The only one who has attained to eternal life and a resurrection for the dead is Jesus , He is the “FIRST” Born from the dead and is the Only one at this time. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………………………gene
Gene,What you write is an assumption.
Scripture states he went up to heaven in the presence of the chariot of Israel and was not found on earth. Elisha was the witness to these events and knew he would not be found on earth. It takes no genius to figure out that Elijah was taken up by God even as were Enoch and Jesus.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 01 2012,09:25) The only one who has attained to eternal life and a resurrection for the dead is Jesus , He is the “FIRST” Born from the dead and is the Only one at this time.
Gene,Jesus is the firstborn FROM the dead because he is the first one who tasted death and THEN was taken to heaven. He HAD to taste death for all of us, remember?
On the other hand, neither Elijah nor Enoch even tasted death at all. They were not raised FROM the dead, because they didn't die. That is how Jesus is the FIRSTborn FROM the dead, because HE actually died before being taken up to heaven.
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