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Something else miia about the type of miracle you suggest. I’m not sure these are miracles as much as answers to prayers. But something else:
A woman (froline frisa) in Austria was held by her father who for 24 years raped her every day. Every day, her father raped her. She bore children and he raped them as well. It was only by accident that she escaped after 24 years. During the 24 years she prayed every day to God to save her from this torture.
If God can listen to her requests every day for 24 years to be freed of this cruelty without intervening, I would have to ask why.There are two options the way I see it:
1. God didn’t answer your prayer about the violent family and he also didn’t answer this girls prayer who was being raped.
2. God did immediately answer your prayer about the violent family man but didn’t care as much for the girls prayers, the girl who was being raped every day of her life.
What bothers me and what has bothered many thinkers through time is, why does God care to answer prayers about the mundane things (thank you for blessing us with this sunny day) when he doesn’t seem to care so much for the prayers of the children starving to death or being raped daily.They pray also.
Either a cognitive illusion is at work in some people’s minds or, God doesn’t care for their suffering and prayers nearly as much as he cares for much smaller things.
David, I have asked myself the exact same questions, and followed the story about the girl held captive, and wondered as you did why God did not help her. You said she prayed every day for God to save her (for 24 years). Did you read that? Not that it matters, just wondering.
I was in my own prison and prayed constantly for help. God did not respond to my prayers. I felt God never heard me, and I was not saved, every day was the same (18 years). God eventually did help me, and it was sudden, and it was amazing. Why so long? I’m not a hundred percent sure, but i guess i could have had a wonderful life, but it would not make me who I am today, I might not be able to feel the same compassion and heart when I see suffering (I don’t know?) – same for the girl. Remember, God has eternity in plan, and is outside our own perception of time.
Elizabeth Fritzl is now living in a tiny hamlet called “Village X” with family. The home is kept under constant CCTV surveillance, and any strangers caught lurking nearby can expect to be picked up by the police within minutes. She is in a relationship with a security guard.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/whatever-became-of-elisabeth-fritzl-1924645.html
Nick…..”Now faith “is” the substance of things hoped for, the “evidence” of things not seen.”
Substance …..the thing that MAKE UP things.
Evidence…….PROOF, not supostions of the mind.
Why try to change scripture to meet you own personal dogmas?
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
Man cannot be more moral than God.
Imagine you had a gun and were immortal, and you saw your daughter being raped, or any child being raped, and they called out specifically to you for help, they called out over and over again in tears for your help, believing and hoping you would help, but you just watched. You watched her being raped.
What at is the proper action? What is the moral thing to do?
If God does not step in and shoot that guy right then no there, then why would we think he helps anyone in a miraculous way today?
The women that was raped for 24 years, every day God must have been aware, must have heard her begging and pleading, must have saw hear tears and heard her screams
We seem to think God steps in for the guy who needs a new car to get to work, and that God is responsible for his raise, and at the same time, the boy with daihree dehydration and pneumonia who has barely any food or clothes, God watches and hears apparently, but his 7 painful years on the planet were enough and he dies in his mothers arms
I don’t know that this makes sense.
What at would make sense to me is: the guy who got the raise was just a good worker and his boss just gave him a raise.
“””””David,
Then the answer is God has mercy on whom he has mercy and compassion on whom he has compassion.
I have kidney disease and I certainly pray for healing but many others have kidney disease as well and God does not heal a significant number of them. He has never been one to do a whole lot of miracles, Jesus commented on that.
The best answer I can come up is that the current world is in Satan’s hand and God choose to interfere on rare occasions.””””
This is is the sort of thinking I am concerned with.
LETS SAY:
100 people have kidney disease. 95 of them are the praying sort. And 80 of them pray specifically to be healed.
LETS SAY:
5 of them get better.
Question:
Does this mean that praying to be healed is what healed them? I’m sure from their perspective, especially given their desire to believe, the 5 will believe this. And they will share their story, how against all odds they were healed.
But what of the other 75 who were praying for the same thing?
in this example prayer worked at the most 5/75 times. Or it didn’t work at the least 70/75 times.
But sometimes people just get better. Maybe all 5 of them just happened to get better, especially given that 75 who prayed didn’t get better with prayer.
Right now now you are at the “rare occasions” stage, saying miracles happen that often. I think the more you look into this critically, the more rare it seems to be. And eventually it starts to feel so rare that it almost doesn’t exist. And then it becomes so rare that for all practical purposes, it doesn’t exist.
“this man walked angry, acted angry, appeared angry in public. he no longer does, he appears like anyone else. i have no desire to inquire if he had an experience with God around the time i prayed for him because, i know he did. i felt the power of God working and i just know.”
Well this seems to say it all. MIIA, you want to believe, as does everyone, and so seeing if is real–you stand nothing to gain by doing that.
For me, I am only interested in knowing reality, so I would have much to gain by seeing if some over the top outburst made him legally required to be on mood altering medication.
Could you describe what you mean by :”I felt” the power f God working?
“some miracles are in your face. God has given people knowledge. example, look how far we have come with modern medicine. we can bring the dead back. we can give sight to the blind, and heal people without them feeling a thing (‘greater [more in number] things than these will you do’).”
Most of of this hasn’t come from God. Men researching and doing rests and trials and experiments.
The one thing that maybe did come from above, chiropractic therapy. D.D Palmer was Into magnetism (not involving magnets but that thing where you use your chi or energy to heal people). He went to and lived by a place that had seances all the time. He told a story of how he was inspired by a dead Dr Atkins who gave him the knowledge of what later became known as chiropractic therapy. He was Into vitalism and a bunch of weird things. He thought about starting a religion based on chiropractic therapy. This story isn’t really too relevant but its fascinating.
But it apart from Palmer, there really aren’t a lot of people who get their medical type ideas from inspiration or from above. People do science.
I’m not sure just because a Christian invents or discovers something that this means it comes from God.
If God wanted to give us vaccines he would have told us the benefits of moldy bread long ago. Or mental illness. He could have told us about mental illness.
It it seems remarkable that mental illness sort of arose just right around the time that demon possession and thinking someone had a spirit inside of them fell away.
MIIA, you were in prison for 18 years???
and you suddenly got out? I don’t really know how people get out of prison or how that works but isn’t there a process? What specifically makes you believe that after 18 years it was God who opened the doors for you, like in the bible?
Im glad you are now out.
MIIA, you were in prison for 18 years???
and you suddenly got out? I don’t really know how people get out of prison or how that works but isn’t there a process? What specifically makes you believe that after 18 years it was God who opened the doors for you, like in the bible?
Im glad you are now out.
Hi david,
“What at is the proper action? What is the moral thing to do?
If God does not step in and shoot that guy right then no there, then why would we think he helps anyone in a miraculous way today?”
When did you become the judge of God?
Hi David.
Terrible things have always happened.
Would you have advised God to manage things differently?
Hi David,
Job was a righteous man and he prayed.
But he had to suffer the loss of almost everything before he got the answer he needed.
Hi,
Isaiah 1.15
“So when you spread out your hands in prayer I will hide My eyes from you.
Yes, even though you multiply prayers I will not listen.
Your hands are covered in blood.
Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from My sight.
Cease to do evil, learn to do good;
Seek justice, reprove the ruthless,defend the orphan.
Plead for the widow”
God does not answer all prayer nor always intervene .
False religion kills more than the perpetrators and mightily offends God.
Nick,
I will infer that you would just watch the girl being endlessly raped despite it being easy to end that disgusting pain and suffering and despite her plea’s to you.
Immoral and disgusting. What are your thoughts on the golden rule or the good Samaritan principle?
The main point I was originally making is:
People tend to be self serving in their beliefs about how God is helping them in their situations and yet when we look at all situations and far worse situations than our own, the thinking becomes not so simple.
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