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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 05 2011,06:06) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2011,11:50) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 04 2011,04:06) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2011,11:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2011,08:44) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 02 2011,15:09)
When I show you the scriptures you always state that I am being selective.
MartyAnd the scriptures I have given you do not line up with your interpretation of those scriptures.
Tell me Marty, Is John 14:16 scripture or not? If it is then please explain why Jesus said he will pray the Father to send another?
Please explain how your interpretation of 1 Cor 2:7-13 matches John 14:16.
I already know you reject Matt 28:19 as scripture.
WJ
Hi Keith:Jesus was going to his position at the right hand of the Father, and while he was with them he was their comforter (helper), and so he said, another comforter (helper) because he was going to baptize believers with the Holy Ghost after he was glorified, but he made it plain that the comforter (helper) of whom he spoke was already with them in that he was dwelling with them and would be in them.
In 2 John we have the following scripture:
Quote 2 John 2:9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. And so, now we as his disciples have both he (Jesus) and our God our Father as our comforter (helper).
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi MartyThat is a non answer Marty because Jesus clearly said “that he would pray the Father, and the Father would send another“.
Why did he use that language if he was speaking of the Father. Would the Father be the “other” that the Father sends?
That makes no sense Marty.
Jesus could have easily said the Father that was in him would come to you.
WJ
Hi WJ:Here is the scripture. Let's see what he said:
Quote JOhn 14:16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
And so, he the other comforter of whom he spoke was the Spirit of Truth.
The comforter is the Holy Ghost:
Quote 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of God our Father:
Quote 1 Co 2:9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Quote 1 Co 2:12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYou are so confused. Is the Spirit of Truth the Holy Spirit or not?
You say Jesus is the Son of the Holy Spirit. Which means that the Holy Spirit is the Father.
Which means that you are saying Jesus would pray to the Father to send “another” from the Father and that other is the Father!
You are making no sense.Is the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth the same Spirit or not?
Man you are going to have to do better than this if you are going to teach in your Trinitarian Church.
WJ
Hi Keith:No, I am not confused. Let the Lord Judge between you and me, and show who is the one confused. I know that the Holy Spirit is the Holy Ghost who is the Spirit of God my Father by whom Jesus was conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary.
God was dwelling withing Jesus by His Spirit and he also dwells within me by the same Spirit.
This is the plain and simple truth and any one should understand it as it has been explained.
Show me where any mention is made that the Holy Spirit is a “Third Person” of a Tri-une God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 05 2011,15:38) Show me where any mention is made that the Holy Spirit is a “Third Person” of a Tri-une God.
MartyI already have and you have rejected them. There are more. So yes, let God judge between me and you who accepts the inspired word of God which is the truth and who does not accept it!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,03:14)
You see Mike, Jesus doesn't rule by proxy because unlike every other Savour or King, Jesus literally has all things and all judgment and authority and power. It is Jesus that does the works. It was also by his own Life and Blood that he saved us and redeemed us unto himself.So to us Jesus is our Great God and Savour and Lord or Owner!
WJ
Hi WJ,It was through “Jesus”(74) “God Blood”(74), YHVH redeemed (saving) us unto himself.
Rom.6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God(YHVH) through Jesus Christ our Lord.YHVH: Redeemer
2Corinth.5:19 To wit, that God(YHVH) was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not
imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Isa.47:4 As for our redeemer(YHVH), “LORD of Hosts”(151) is his name, the Holy One of Israel.
YHVH: Creator
Rev.4:11 Thou art worthy, O LORD(YHVH), to receive glory and honor and power:
for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
(Col.1:16) For by YHVH were all things created, that are in heaven, and in earth.YHVH: Savior
Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together:
who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time?
have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God
and a Savior; there is none beside me. The Savior=117=יהוה האלהיםYHVH is GOD(117)
Redeemer, Creator, SaviorIsa.44:24-36 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb,
that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; That frustrateth the tokens of the liars,
and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their
knowledge foolish; That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth
the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited;
and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:God's Signature
The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)Mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2011,15:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,03:14) This is more JW bunk.
Really Keith?
They backed up this FACT with at least 5 scriptures, right? Yet it is “bunk”?
It is bunk because it does not prove inequality.If YHVH being at David’s right hand is doing the works then that means that David to everyone else is “equal” to YHVH, unless you are saying they are David’s works and not YHVHs.
The difference once again is Jesus is the “One Doing The Works” at the right hand of the Father.
All you have proven by showing that YHVH being at David’s right hand was proof that someone at another’s right hand is not inferior and is at least equal or greater than the one who’s right hand he sits.. Unless you will now claim that YHVH is inferior to David.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2011,15:25) Really Keith? They backed up this FACT with at least 5 scriptures, right? Yet it is “bunk”? This, coming from the man who scolds me for not believing HIS biased scholars!
The problem is the JWs along with the NWT translating committee are not scholars are they Mike?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2011,15:25) If a spokesman FOR a king relays the words of that king, then THOSE WORDS have EQUAL authority as if they were coming from the king himself. But the vice-regent himself is not EQUAL to the king.
Exactly Mike, now you are getting it, the words are “Equal” in authority. Now when we speak the Word of God we say it is Gods words, but Jesus spoke the words and says that not only are they Gods words but his own and he proved it by “His works” which he saw the Father do and he did.You see Mike, Jesus is the King of Kings not only of this earth like the ones you like to bring up, but of heaven and earth and under the earth and every knee will bow to him and confess him as Lord which is proof of his Deity.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2011,15:25) 4. And finally, you call “sitting at someone's right hand” a metaphor for “equality”. Where do you come by this information? If A sits at the right hand of B, then there is not “equality”. It is a matter of B having the greater power and position, and honoring A by making A his “right hand man”.
That is your own logic not based on the facts. J. Benner says…A: The Hebrew phrase is “yamin elohiym”. The word elohiym means “God” while the word “yamin” is “right hand”. The focus of this word is on the idea of “the right hand” in contrast to just “the hand” (yad in Hebrew). The right hand is the stronger hand over the left hand. The “right hand of God” is an idiom for “the strength of God”.
As you can see that he says the right hand in contrast to the left hand is the strongest. So if the Father is not telling us Jesus is equal according to Hebrew thought, then he would have Jesus sit at his left hand. But in fact Jesus is also sitting in the Throne which surly means he rules as God.
You see Mike, if Jesus has all things including all authority and power and through him or by him all things come to us, then that means to us he is our God or else our relationship with him would be idolatrous.
With lip service you acknowledge that Jesus is “your god” but in reality you do not see all things coming from him and that you cannot even approach God without him. From our view he sits in the Throne of God and every thing that we receive from God comes from Jesus. Your view of him is he some kind of empty vessel like a puppet on a string who has no authority or power or substance of his own. To you he is only a reflection or an icon of God. To us he is the very “essence of God” or “the radiance of his Glory”. He is the real deal and not a vice-regent like all the others before him.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2011,15:25)
Keith, please show me an example from history where someone's “right hand man” was either equal to or the same being as the one whose right hand he was at.
We already have scriptural examples and in fact you showed us one yourself.YHVH was at David’s right hand and surely you are not saying YHVH is inferior to David are you?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2011,15:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,03:14) So does sitting in “Gods Throne” mean he is not equal to God? If so that would mean that someone less than God sits in his throne, right?
Apparently so Keith. Because others will sit in Jesus' throne, and I don't assume they will become the being of Jesus or be as great and powerful as he is, do you?
You keep bringing this up as if it is to be compared to sitting in the “Throne of God” ruling as God. It’s like the comparison of Jesus and the Father being one, yet there Oneness is unique and separate to our oneness with them.Those who sit in the throne of the King of Kings will have delegated authority given to them by Jesus, but nowhere does the scriptures tell us we will ever have all authority and power and possess all things do they? YHVH said he would not share his Glory with another yet Jesus sits in his Throne and is the “Radiance of his Glory”.
Your efforts to reduce Jesus and who he is will only push you further away from really knowing him.
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 05 2011,16:01) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,03:14)
You see Mike, Jesus doesn't rule by proxy because unlike every other Savour or King, Jesus literally has all things and all judgment and authority and power. It is Jesus that does the works. It was also by his own Life and Blood that he saved us and redeemed us unto himself.So to us Jesus is our Great God and Savour and Lord or Owner!
WJ
Hi WJ,It was through “Jesus”(74) “God Blood”(74), YHVH redeemed (saving) us unto himself.
EdAll those colors hurts the eyes. But you are right, YHVH redeemed us to himself.
So what do you make of these scriptures?
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; “Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify “UNTO HIMSELF” a peculiar people“, zealous of good works. Tit 2:13, 14
And this one…
“Who shall change our vile body“, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby “he is able even to subdue all things UNTO HIMSELF“. Phil 3:21
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,09:06) Mike The problem is the JWs along with the NWT translating committee are not scholars are they Mike?
WJ
Hi WJ,What do you believe it takes to be a “scholar”?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,09:17) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 05 2011,16:01)
Hi WJ,It was through “Jesus”(74) “God Blood”(74), YHVH redeemed (saving) us unto himself.
EdSo what do you make of these scriptures?
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; “Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify “UNTO HIMSELF” a peculiar people“, zealous of good works. Tit 2:13, 14
And this one…
“Who shall change our vile body“, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby “he is able even to subdue all things UNTO HIMSELF“. Phil 3:21
WJ
Hi WJ,I'm glad you decided to study instead of criticize; it shows us all your maturity in Christ, Jesus!
Titus 2:13-14 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God
and our Savior Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from
all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.Phil 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body,
according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (1Thess.2:12)Titus 2:13-14 & Phil 3:21 are explained in 2Cor.5:16-18, 1John 3:2-11 & Luke 17:20-24.
2Cor.5:16-18 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though
we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed
away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath
reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation. (Rom.14:19)1John 3:2-11 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Whosoever
committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth
righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth
sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this
purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy
the works of the devil(the rudiments). Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.The only place you're going to see “Christ” (in this reality) is in others! (Luke 17:21)
Luke 17:20-24 And when he(Jesus) was demanded of the Pharisees,
when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said,
The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of
the days(John 8:56) of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. And they shall say to
you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. For as the lightning,
that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part
under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. (Mark 13:25-34)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi WJ,
Matt.6:10 refers the feasts of “Pentecost”=117 and
Rev.21:2-3 refers to to God's “Feast of Booths”(151)?………………The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63 !
………………God's Name [יהוה] translates DIRECTLY into English as “YHVH”=63
Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth
………………is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as
………………[“The Latter Rain“=151 and “former rain“=117] unto the earth.I added “COLOR”=63 to help you grasp the “Ideas” God has put forth in His Word!
THE “THREE” MAIN “FEASTS OF GOD” (allocate as “The Trinity”=148) and are as follows……….74 x 2 =148
1) “The Passover”=148…………….“The Passover”: made possible “Pentecost”=117
…“Messiah: Jesus”=148…………….“JESUS CHRIST”=151 was/is “the Testator”=151!2) “Pentecost”=117…………………Started the “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit), which
…“Former Rain”=117……………….is “GOD THE FATHER”=117 reigning in believers!3) “Feast of Booths”=151…………begins The “HOLY SPIRIT”=151(The LORD JEHOVAH=151)
“Tabernacles Feast”=151 …………“Tabernacles Feast”=151; is the culmination of all “three”!
…“The Latter Rain”=151……………“HolySpirit” ruling: is “PROOF OF GOD”=117! (Rev.11:15)Rev.21:2-3 And I John saw the HOLY CITY=117, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold,
the tabernacle of God is with men (Is.60:14), and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
AND GOD HIMSELF=117 shall be with them, and be “their God”=86 (YHVH=63).
(86=[אלהים] ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63)“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)Hi WJ,
God's Signature
The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)The Trinity(74 X2) encoded in “AKJV Bible”(74).
JEHOVAH is ONLY used in three phrases,
illustrating a Trinity within this translation.
Building a bridge between two views.Three altars: phrases in “AKJV Bible”(74) (YHVH Banner=117)
1) Genesis 22:14, “Jehovah-Jireh” means: “GOD will see” and “GOD will provide”;
this appertains to “JESUS”=74, which is “our provision back to GOD”. (II Cor. 5:19)2) Exodus 17:15, “Jehovah-Nissi” means: “GOD is My Banner”, which illustrates
“GOD THE FATHER”=117, because under GOD’s banner we all stand. (Psalm 60:4)3) Judges 6:24, “Jehovah-Shalom” relates: “GOD is My Peace” to the comforter,
the “HOLY SPIRIT”=151, because the Spirit brings us GOD’s comfort. (John 14:26)The Three Major Prophets: “The Bible”(63)
1) Isaiah=47: Isaiah’s name means “Jehovah’s Salvation”
(this Prophet illustrates JESUS, because Jesus’ name means “Jehovah’s Salvation”) (1John 2:2)2) Jeremiah=69: Jeremiah’s name means “Jehovah is High”
(this Prophet illustrates GOD THE FATHER, because JEHOVAH=69 is the Highest God). (Psalm 83:18)3) Ezekiel=73: Ezekiel’s name means “EL (GOD) will strengthen”
(this Prophet illustrates the HOLY SPIRIT, because the Holy Spirit strengthens us all in GOD). (Luke 24:49)This “Theomatic encryption” (47+69+73= 63 x 3) illustrates “YHVH=63” as a Trinity (Meaning 3).
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,09:06)
If YHVH being at David’s right hand is doing the works then that means that David to everyone else is “equal” to YHVH, unless you are saying they are David’s works and not YHVHs.
Are you for real, Keith? Because God fights for David, now David is EQUAL to his God? Where do you come up with this stuff?If God was with you during a mission you went on, would YOU now be EQUAL to God Himself because He was fighting for you at your right hand? Would the people who saw that God was with you all of a sudden think you WERE God Himself, or equal to Him?
Show me from scripture where someone thought that God being at one's right hand made that one “equal to God”.Many scriptures tell of people who realized God was with certain other people and He was blessing everything they did. But none of them idiotically thought the one who God was blessing WAS God Himself, or even EQUAL to God Himself.
Are you blind to the absolute nonsense you just posted?
Keith, if Jesus sits at the right hand OF his God, then he can't very well BE that God that he sits at the right hand OF, can he?
Take note that it doesn't ever say he sits at the right hand of “the Father”, but at the right hand of “God”.Also, if God is at David's right hand, then it means that God fights for and strengthens David. It does not mean David is God or equal to God. And this is the same thing David says about Jesus in 110:5. It means that Jesus will be able to accomplish his tasks because his God is with him and strengthening him. This fact is further confirmed by Micah 5:4.
Keith, I can't go on with you like this. You have gone as far to say that David, a human being, was equal to his God………..just so you can keep your point that Jesus could also then be equal to God. And this, after I posted the scripture where God says, “Who is my equal?”.
What's next? Will you go as far as to claim that Moses is God Himself, just so you can also claim that Jesus is God because he is also called “god”?
How many scriptures and how much common sense will you butcher? How stupid will you make yourself look in the process? Any 12 year old can easily understand what is meant by God being at someone's right hand. And what is meant by someone being given the prestiged position of being at the right hand of God. But apparently not you, huh?
This is one of the most pathetic posts you've ever made, Keith. I would expect this nonsense from Jack, but not from you.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,07:48) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 05 2011,15:38) Show me where any mention is made that the Holy Spirit is a “Third Person” of a Tri-une God.
MartyI already have and you have rejected them. There are more. So yes, let God judge between me and you who accepts the inspired word of God which is the truth and who does not accept it!
WJ
Hi Keith:You have not showed me any scripture which states that the Holy Spirit is a “Third Person” of a Tri-une God. You interpret Matthew 28:19 to mean that, but there is no scripture which states that the Holy Spirit is a “Third Person” of a Tri-une God.
But enough said, I am content to let the Lord judge who is confused on this issue, and I am praying that God will either correct you or me so that we can walk in unity.
How can two walk together except they be agreed?
Love in Christ,
MartyOK all, I will stop the pretending. And I apologise. I only wanted to post with some freedom. I was only interested in some things and wanted to post without JA 'breathing down my neck about it. That was one reason.
So theres no confusion, If I have personal questions etc, I will post as 'thankful. with no capitals (I type faster like that so prefer it).
If I post JAs (censored) thoughts I will post as shimmer.
Hope you can all have some understanding.
JAs thoughts now;
Jesus is Given power for a while…does this makes him God?
Then was Joseph Pharoah for a while? No!One cannot become THE Pharoah while THE Pharoah still lives.
One cannot become THE Almighty God while THE Almighty God still lives…and since He never dies then there never is another, ever!BUT, one CAN deputise for God, as Jesus does, and one could deputise for Pharoah, as Joseph did but note carefully that neither sits ON the THRONE of the one being deputised for (ON, here, means owning that position. IN means holding that position, only, just as Haman did not OWN the seal of the King but only held it for the purpose of carrying out his deputisation duty)
The throne belongs to the Father, and the father alone. Then Jesus is 'GRANTED' to sit 'At the Right Hand' of his Father, of his God for a while. If Jesus is God, how does he not already sit ON the throne, how is he not owning the throne, but only Granted to sit there…for a while?
Passing by Jude 1:1… Does Jude not make a clear distinction between God the Father, and Jesus Christ. At no time does Jude say that Jesus is God but he openly, plainly and clearly…states that the Father is God.
For Keith:
Wikipedia on “right hand”,
It is also a placement next to God in heaven, in the traditional place of honour, mentioned in the New Testament as the place of Christ at Mark 16:19.In the Bible, to be at the right side is to be identified as being in the special place of honor.
From the website “Let us Reason”,
To sit at ones right hand means a place of authority, it was a place of honor it meant dignity and rulership.From the Watchtower,
To be on the right hand of a ruler was to have the most important position, next to the ruler himself, or a position in his favor.From the website “Got Questions.org”,
the usage of the term, “right hand” ranges from a direction, to the opposite of wrong, what is just or what conforms to an established standard, and to a place of honor or authority.From Thayer's Lexicon:
a place of honour or authority.Keith, if Jesus is at the right hand OF God, then he can't BE God. Scripture doesn't ever say Jesus is at the right hand of “the Father”. If it did, then you would have a case to make that Jesus is “God the Son” who sits at the right hand of “God the Father”. But since Jesus sits at the right hand, not of “the Father”, but of “God”, then he can't possibly BE the only true God he sits beside any more than “God the Son” could actually BE “God the Father” that he sits beside.
But I wanted you to see for yourself that “right hand” is a place of honor that is GIVEN to someone by the one in power. One does not take it upon themself to just decide they are going to sit at the right hand of some powerful person – the position is given BY that powerful person.
God has granted for His Son to sit beside Him in the prestigious right hand position.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (shimmer @ Feb. 07 2011,01:04) One cannot become THE Pharoah while THE Pharoah still lives.
One cannot become THE Almighty God while THE Almighty God still lives…and since He never dies then there never is another, ever!
Your examples dont portray how Jesus is not God.
because they are not good examples.Francis made a excellent arguement stating that Jesus is like the tabernacle.
Inside the Tabernacle was fully God, and the Tabernacle that was created by men, was fully a created object.So therefore the Tabernacle is a object as much as it is Fully God.
Jesus is as much a Man as he was Fully God.
Your assuming that Jesus and God are two different people.
Because of course Jospeh and Pharaoh were two differnt people.
But Joseph DID not do what Pharaohs exact works.
Jesus did the exact works of the Father.That should tell you something.
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 06 2011,14:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,07:48) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 05 2011,15:38) Show me where any mention is made that the Holy Spirit is a “Third Person” of a Tri-une God.
MartyI already have and you have rejected them. There are more. So yes, let God judge between me and you who accepts the inspired word of God which is the truth and who does not accept it!
WJ
Hi Keith:You have not showed me any scripture which states that the Holy Spirit is a “Third Person” of a Tri-une God. You interpret Matthew 28:19 to mean that, but there is no scripture which states that the Holy Spirit is a “Third Person” of a Tri-une God.
But enough said, I am content to let the Lord judge who is confused on this issue, and I am praying that God will either correct you or me so that we can walk in unity.
How can two walk together except they be agreed?
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyAnd there is no scripture that says that the Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus or that the Holy Spirit is the Father is there?
But there are scriptures that says the Holy Spirit is another.
WJ
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 06 2011,15:04)
The throne belongs to the Father, and the father alone. Then Jesus is 'GRANTED' to sit 'At the Right Hand' of his Father, of his God for a while. If Jesus is God, how does he not already sit ON the throne, how is he not owning the throne, but only Granted to sit there…for a while?Shimmer
So do you support this guys falshoods?
JA says…
“BUT, one CAN deputise for God, as Jesus does, and one could deputise for Pharoah, as Joseph did but note carefully that neither sits ON the THRONE of the one being deputised for (ON, here, means owning that position. IN means holding that position, only, just as Haman did not OWN the seal of the King but only held it for the purpose of carrying out his deputisation duty)”
That is false.There is no comparison to Joseph and Jesus for “Jesus sits in the Throne of God” and in fact the Throne of God is called the Throne of God and of the Lamb.
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as “I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne“. Rev 3:21
And I beheld, and, lo, “in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, “stood a Lamb” as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Rev 5:6
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of “the throne of God and of the Lamb“. Rev 22:1
And there shall be no more curse: but “the throne of God and of the Lamb” shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: Rev 22:3
So as you can see JA is wrong! Jesus does sit in the throne of God.
JA said…
“If Jesus is God, how does he not already sit ON the throne…”
So does that mean that JA will admit Jesus is God now?
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,15:37)
Keith, if Jesus is at the right hand OF God, then he can't BE God.
MikeBut if he sits IN the “Throne of God” then he must be God or equal to him, right?
The right hand shows equality. For all things comes from him (Jesus) to us. Through him (Jesus) we live and by him all things consist.
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 05 2011,17:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,09:06) Mike The problem is the JWs along with the NWT translating committee are not scholars are they Mike?
WJ
Hi WJ,What do you believe it takes to be a “scholar”?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDIt takes formal training in the Biblical languages and Biblical history. There are those here on this sight that pretend to know more than the translators themselves.
The translating committee for the JWs NWT had no credentials in Biblical Hebrew or Greek, in fact not one of them could read a single line in the languages yet they translated a Bible.
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 05 2011,19:45)
I'm glad you decided to study instead of criticize; it shows us all your maturity in Christ, Jesus!
Titus 2:13-14 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God
and our Savior Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from
all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.Phil 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body,
according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (1Thess.2:12)
EDI read your scriptures, but you are not addressing my point.
The scriptures say that Jesus is redeeming us to “Himself” which is exactly what YHVH says he is doing.
If you don't see the correlation between the two, oh well.
Good day.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,11:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,09:06)
If YHVH being at David’s right hand is doing the works then that means that David to everyone else is “equal” to YHVH, unless you are saying they are David’s works and not YHVHs.
Are you for real, Keith? Because God fights for David, now David is EQUAL to his God? Where do you come up with this stuff?
That is not my words at all is it Mike? This is what I said…If YHVH being at David’s right hand is doing the works then that means that David to everyone else is “equal” to YHVH, unless you are saying they are David’s works and not YHVHs
Is YHVHs works by David’s hand not equal to YHVHs works? Therefore to everyone else David’s hand is equal to YHVHs. Why don’t you get this? Once again are you saying because YHVH is at David’s right hand that he is inferior to David? There goes that logic out the window. So from now on you can’t sat that someone at someone else’s right hand is inferior to the one whose hand he sits next too, can you? There is your example Mike.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,11:26) If God was with you during a mission you went on, would YOU now be EQUAL to God Himself because He was fighting for you at your right hand?
If it is God who is at my right hand then my right has been made equal to God. Hello!Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,11:26) Would the people who saw that God was with you all of a sudden think you WERE God Himself, or equal to Him? Show me from scripture where someone thought that God being at one's right hand made that one “equal to God”.
You showed us one. YHVH was at David’s right hand which means his works were Gods works which made David equal to God as far as everyone else was concerned.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,11:26) Many scriptures tell of people who realized God was with certain other people and He was blessing everything they did. But none of them idiotically thought the one who God was blessing WAS God Himself, or even EQUAL to God Himself.
Really, you are the one always saying that there are other gods in scripture. Did not the Pharaoh think Moses was God?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,11:26)
Are you blind to the absolute nonsense you just posted?
Just answer the question Mike.Is David’s right hand equal to the right hand of God if God is at it?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,11:26) Keith, if Jesus sits at the right hand OF his God, then he can't very well BE that God that he sits at the right hand OF, can he? Take note that it doesn't ever say he sits at the right hand of “the Father”, but at the right hand of “God”.
You ignored this by J Brenner who is a non Trinitarian…A: The Hebrew phrase is “yamin elohiym”. The word elohiym means “God” while the word “yamin” is “right hand”. The focus of this word is on the idea of “the right hand” in contrast to just “the hand” (yad in Hebrew). The right hand is the stronger hand over the left hand. The “right hand of God” is an idiom for “the strength of God”.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,11:26)
Also, if God is at David's right hand, then it means that God fights for and strengthens David. It does not mean David is God or equal to God. And this is the same thing David says about Jesus in 110:5. It means that Jesus will be able to accomplish his tasks because his God is with him and strengthening him. This fact is further confirmed by Micah 5:4.
The problem you have is David didn’t do the works of God but is merely a vice-regent. However Jesus does the works. It is through him that all things come to us. You should stop making these carnal comparisons.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,11:26) How many scriptures and how much common sense will you butcher? How stupid will you make yourself look in the process? Any 12 year old can easily understand what is meant by God being at someone's right hand. And what is meant by someone being given the prestiged position of being at the right hand of God. But apparently not you, huh? This is one of the most pathetic posts you've ever made, Keith. I would expect this nonsense from Jack, but not from you.
I sense your frustration. Why don’t you answer the question…Is David’s right hand equal to the right hand of God if God is at it?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
WJ
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