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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,11:16) Quote (thankful @ Jan. 31 2011,15:35) hello worshippingjesus, i have a question i would like answered by a trinitarian and i see you may be one ? why did yahshua say that he could only do what he saw his father doing?
thankyou.
Hi And welcome!Good question, the answer is because he is in very nature God, (Phil 2:6 NIV) like the Father.
His statement is proof of his deity for what other man or woman could say “That they “could only do what they see the Father do“?
This means he is in perfect unity with the Father and unlike every other man who “does not” nor “cannot” do only what they see the Father do, Jesus who is perfect in nature with the Father as God, can do all things he sees the Father do.
Unless you think you are perfect like the Father.
WJ
hello worshippingjesus, thank you.i was not making suggestions of any kind, only asking a question that had been bugging me for ages and i was seeking an answer from a truthful trinitarian.
worshippingjesus, you say that jesus is in essence God because only he can do what his father does. well, my confusion is still with me because are not the elected saints and holy ones, they that also overcome in jesus' name, are they, the 144 000, are they not to become like jesus doing what he does? if so, and scriptures says they will, then are they then 'in essence jesus christ'?
and, if in essence jesus christ, then God, in essence, also?
144,000 Gods?worshippingjesus, do you see my confusion? thank you for your expected truthful response !
God bless.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:47)
That is wishful thinking isn't it, since being called Elohim or Theos “can mean one is God Almighty“?
Absolutely it can. But “CAN” and “MAYBE” in not enough to invent a son that can be the same exact being as his father, is it?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:47)
All you have done is ignored the tons of evidence presented by the thousands even millions of believers that know he is God Almighty….
I haven't ignored it at all. That is an inaccurate statement and you should probably not make that claim again. Far from “ignoring it”, I've embraced it, studied it, analyzed it – and easily refuted all of it as NOT being ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that Jesus is God Almighty.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:47)
They know by the Spirit that Jesus is God.
And I know by the Spirit (and basic common sense) that you are all falling for Satan's second best trick ever. The first was convincing millions that there is no God at all. The second was getting the ones who DO believe in a God to worship the wrong one. He got some people to worship cows or six armed creatures. But what about the ones who had a strong Judeo Christian background? How could he get them to spit in God's face by breaking His commandments and worshipping someone other than YHVH? At first, he thought, “Naw, no one would be dumb enough to buy into the fact that the Son OF God could actually BE the God he was the Son OF. No one would be confused enough to believe a Preist TO God could be God Himself, would they? Surely mankind is intelligent enough to realize that a Mediator BETWEEN mankind and God could not actually BE God.”But as we now well know, Satan was pleasantly surprised by the results. He now has gotten millions upon millions to worship someone OTHER THAN YHVH as God Almighty. And in doing this, they also break DIRECT commands from God. Yep, old Satan is “smiling all the way to the bank” on this scam.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:47)
Your evidence and proofs against what the scriptures say and the Forefathers teach down to this day is bleak and scarce isn't it Mike?
The scriptures never teach that Jesus is our only true God, Keith. And some of the Forefathers were simply mistaken and mislead men, as are you. As far as “bleak” and “scarce”, those words better fit the trinity “proof texts”. Jesus is called the “Son of God” somewhere around 41 times in scripture. And each of those 41 times screams, “The Son OF God cannot possibly BE the God he is the Son OF!” And that's just one simple phrase, Keith. There are literally hundreds of scriptures that make it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that Jesus is NOT God Almighty. That doesn't sound “bleak” and “scarce” to me, brother.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:47)
You should be a JW or Mormon for they teach Polytheism like you do.
Keith, I'm tired of this accusation. I teach about the ONE TRUE GOD who created the heavens and earth and everything in them. I teach about following the command of YHVH to worship and serve ONLY Him as God, and about following Jesus' teaching to worship and serve ONLY YHVH as God. And I know that the “polytheist” accusation is very popular for the trinitarians. They think if nothing else, it gives them a little “slant” to anyone else watching or listening. And it's very convincing to main stream Christians who have never even read the Bible, because they've been taught correctly that we only have ONE God. But you guys leave out the fact that there were many other “elohim” mentioned in scripture when you make this claim. So on the outside, it seems very convincing to novices. But you know I'm not a novice anymore, right Keith? You know I'm not a polytheist either, right Keith? So stop, please. It is a false accusation, and the next time I will report it.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:47)
It is really hillarious that somehow you think you can disprove what has been believed by millions from the early first century till the present, especially since most all of the evidence and writings in history are against you. Ha Ha.
Yet, I'm doing it, aren't I?
Scripture by scripture and point by point. Hey Keith, I wonder how many millions thought the earth was flat? How many thought the sun revolved around the earth? How much of the “evidence” was against those first ones who realized those things weren't true? I remember something from history class about your famous early church fathers threatening loss of life and limb against the first astrologers who dared to make the claim that the earth actually revolved around the sun. Besides, all the EVIDENCE is in the scriptures, Keith. It really doesn't matter how many scholars you can line up to say Heb 1:8 teaches that Jesus is God Almighty, does it? Because it's not even ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that the scripture says “Your throne, O God”, let alone that it teaches about Jesus being God Almighty.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (thankful @ Feb. 01 2011,03:14) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,11:16) Quote (thankful @ Jan. 31 2011,15:35) hello worshippingjesus, i have a question i would like answered by a trinitarian and i see you may be one ? why did yahshua say that he could only do what he saw his father doing?
thankyou.
Hi And welcome!Good question, the answer is because he is in very nature God, (Phil 2:6 NIV) like the Father.
His statement is proof of his deity for what other man or woman could say “That they “could only do what they see the Father do“?
This means he is in perfect unity with the Father and unlike every other man who “does not” nor “cannot” do only what they see the Father do, Jesus who is perfect in nature with the Father as God, can do all things he sees the Father do.
Unless you think you are perfect like the Father.
WJ
hello worshippingjesus, thank you.i was not making suggestions of any kind, only asking a question that had been bugging me for ages and i was seeking an answer from a truthful trinitarian.
worshippingjesus, you say that jesus is in essence God because only he can do what his father does. well, my confusion is still with me because are not the elected saints and holy ones, they that also overcome in jesus' name, are they, the 144 000, are they not to become like jesus doing what he does? if so, and scriptures says they will, then are they then 'in essence jesus christ'?
and, if in essence jesus christ, then God, in essence, also?
144,000 Gods?worshippingjesus, do you see my confusion? thank you for your expected truthful response !
God bless.
Romans 8:29we will be in the image of the Son.
Your confusion is on how you look at the “son” or Jesus.We are saying that Jesus is God. but Jesus is not like us.
He was Perect, but through him we can reach perfection and be perfect like the father is.
Matthew 5:48 (King James Version)48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
How is this accomplished? through Jesus.We are to be perfect, but the only way we can do that is through Jesus who is God incarnated in flesh likeness.
144,000 are 12,000 from each tribe of Israel, who are sealed with seal of God.
we cannot speculate any further from there because it has not happen yet.worry about now, and not about things that we cannot understand.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 01 2011,03:11) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 31 2011,16:10) Seriously im tired of your games,
As am I of yours. Goodbye.mike
Ya run run away.
Dont ever state that i ran away from you points ever again or ill just have you reported for stating lies.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:55) Sure Mike Isaiah, the Apostles, John, Philip, Peter, Jude
the ForeFathers and the many millions of Trinitarians
Hi Keith,I separated your list of people above. Please try not to list the former, who NEVER taught that Jesus is God Almighty, with the latter, who are merely confused mortal men whose writings are NOT said to be inspired of God. Thanks.
mike
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2011,06:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,10:37) Hi Marty, You have spoken correctly this time. GOD is the Father of Jesus. NOT God's Holy Spirit. God's Holy Spirit is the “tool” God used to impregnate Mary, like a human male will impregnate someone BY MEANS OF his penis. But the penis does not become the father of the child anymore than the PART OF God He used to impregnate Mary became the father of Jesus.
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike:The point that was being made is that the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of God and not a “Third Person” of some Tri-une God.
But that the Holy Ghost is called God here is a scripture for you to consider:
Quote Acts 5
1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,Now post the REST of the scripture.
Especially verse 9. Because THAT verse explains verse 4. By lying to the Spirit of God, you are in effect, lying directly to God. Just as if I told a lie to your face, you could either say I “lied to Marty” or that I “lied to Marty's face”.Just as YOUR arm is not the being of Marty, YHVH's Holy Spirit is not the being of God. It is a part OF God, as much as your arm is only a part OF Marty.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,08:16) Quote (thankful @ Jan. 31 2011,15:35) hello worshippingjesus, i have a question i would like answered by a trinitarian and i see you may be one ? why did yahshua say that he could only do what he saw his father doing?
thankyou.
Hi And welcome!Good question, the answer is because he is in very nature God, (Phil 2:6 NIV) like the Father.
His statement is proof of his deity for what other man or woman could say “That they “could only do what they see the Father do“?
This means he is in perfect unity with the Father and unlike every other man who “does not” nor “cannot” do only what they see the Father do, Jesus who is perfect in nature with the Father as God, can do all things he sees the Father do.
Unless you think you are perfect like the Father.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,08:33) Marty Jesus made it clear that the Holy Ghost was “another” and not the Father proceeding from himself.
Keith,By YOUR understanding, YHVH's long, powerful, outstretched arm is also a member of the “Godhead”. For it is often referred to poetically as if a separate power from the being of God Himself.
mike
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Feb. 01 2011,10:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 01 2011,03:11) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 31 2011,16:10) Seriously im tired of your games,
As am I of yours. Goodbye.mike
Ya run run away.
Dont ever state that i ran away from you points ever again or ill just have you reported for stating lies.
You run away from my POINTS all the time, D. You post irrelevant imaginations that have nothing to do with the issues at hand.I was discussing some things with Ed J this weekend, and I almost told him to not be like you, because he was skirting the actual issues, bringing up things we've both discussed at length before, and posting diversions. Here, I'll give you an example of what it's like to discuss with you. (Except I'll spell the words correctly and use correct punctuation and such……..like an adult.)
Ed and I were discussing the Spirit OF OF OF God. I asked him when the word “OF” became so hard for him to understand. He replied that the Greeks don't have the word “OF” in their language, and maybe that's what was messing ME up. But the thing is that we had already discussed at great lengths how the Greeks used a genetive form of the word to imply the “OF”, but since the English language doesn't use various forms of word to imply “OF”, we just add the word “OF”. He knows the Greek form of “Spirit OF God” means the same thing as the English form of “Spirit OF God”, yet this was his “defense”.
Then I was saying I thought the “US” in Gen 1:26 referred to Jesus and God. He suggested it could refer to “all of us”. I told him that all things are not said to be created through “all of us”. He replied that we are the “body of Christ”, as if scripture ever implied that we were all created THROUGH OURSELVES.
And it reminded me of how YOU discuss things.For instance, I asked you two or three times to list a SPECIFIC point that Francis made that I didn't address from his last post. And STILL you cannot do that one simple thing. Instead, you listed half of his whole post. And I can't for the life of me find a POINT he made, (as in something that proves Heb 1:8 is calling Jesus God) in all those words. I find him calling me “disengenuous” and ranting about how it's some kind of a sham for me to not just accept everything I read as if it is God's truth. But I don't see a POINT that needs addressing. And if you still DO see a SPECIFIC point that is related to the SCRIPTURES we are discussing, PLEASE POINT IT OUT TO ME SPECIFICALLY. And like I've said three times now: If not, then pipe down about it.
You see, D. This is lunacy as far as I'm concerned. Remember the time you accused me of lying and we had to go back and forth through, like 5 posts each before you realized I really DIDN'T say what you thought I did? Remember? It was about the children's angels seeing the face of God each day? (That's not really what the accusation was about, but maybe that part will jog your memory.) Oh! Now I remember. You thought I said we HAD debated something that we hadn't. But upon further evaluation, you realized that's NOT what I said at all. Remember?
Good. Because this is the kind of your nonsense I just don't have time for. You are good at posting your understanding, but not so much at actually SCRIPTURALLY defending anything you say or acknowledging the scriptures I post for you. And you are very angry and belittling towards me lately, so there's another reason to avoid you.
Do you ever notice the posts I actually answer from Jack and the ones I don't? I usually just ignore the “insult posts” altogether. If he has something OF RELEVANCE to say about the ISSUES AT HAND, then I'll address him. Same with Keith. He whines about me not addressing all his posts, but right now, on this thread, we're discussing Rev 3:12, Micah 5:4, Psalm 45:6 and Hebrews 1:8-9. And he wants to divert the discussion from the ISSUES AT HAND by posting all these other supposed “Jesus is God proof texts”. And although I've already answered many of them many times, I will do so again……………AFTER we've ended the discussion about the above mentioned scriptures.
He says something like: But Jesus has “all power and authority” Mike. What does that tell you?
Well, I have very good answers to that question, but “all power and authority” are NOT words that are in the above mentioned scriptures, are they? So I won't discuss it with him here and now.
D, I asked you point blank if God Almighty had a God. Your answer is “NO”. And that's what you should have HONESTLY posted the first of the three times I had to ask it. THEN I could have said, “Well, Jesus does!”. And THEN you could have started with your illogical reasoning about how God Almighty calls himself “MY God” and all that. But FIRST, there was a simple question. And instead of just answering the simple question, you started with this, that, and the other right from the jump. That's frustrating for me. Why? Because it tells me that you are more worried about where I'm going WITH that question than you are about just answering honestly in the first place
And the worst thing of all, is after NOT DIRECTLY answering that question three times in a row, the 4th time you YELLED at me about how you've answered it 100 times already.
Like I said, I've got neither the time nor the patience for games and attitudes like this. Pay more attention to how Keith posts and less to how Jack does. And follow Keith's example, not Jack's.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 01 2011,11:18) Then I was saying I thought the “US” in Gen 1:26 referred to Jesus and God. He suggested it could refer to “all of us”. I told him that all things are not said to be created through “all of us”. He replied that we are the “body of Christ”, as if scripture ever implied that we were all created THROUGH OURSELVES. And it reminded me of how YOU discuss things.mike
Hi Mike,This is a 'twist', based on your 'perception'. I said (in essence):
1) I believe we were with God in the beginning. (2Tm.1:9)
2) We become the new man in Christ. (Eph.2:15)
3) YHVH created The world. (Isaiah 44:24)You should not blame me for any inaccuracies based solely on your perception.
I have produced (in every case) Scriptural backing for my assertions.
All you have produced for yours (so far) is human logic.
Now you reach out for sympathy, as if this too
will strengthen your position; it will NOT!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 31 2011,10:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,10:37) Hi Marty, You have spoken correctly this time. GOD is the Father of Jesus. NOT God's Holy Spirit. God's Holy Spirit is the “tool” God used to impregnate Mary, like a human male will impregnate someone BY MEANS OF his penis. But the penis does not become the father of the child anymore than the PART OF God He used to impregnate Mary became the father of Jesus.
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,Your logic, although a bit graphic, is inaccurate.
Jesus said:
A. The Father in him doeth the work. (John 14:10)
B. With the finger of God Jesus casts out devils and
the kingdom of God is come upon you. (Luke 11:20)Looking at this through physical understanding doesn't work to well.
So if we were to use your logic, we could say(please excuse my graphicness)…1. The “HolySpirit” is God's finger.
2. God used his finger to impregnate Mary.I hope this will give you better understanding. Here are the “Facts”…
God's finger is the “HolySpirit”. (Luke 11:20)
God's spirit is the “HolySpirit”. (Romans 8:11)
God's mind is the “HolySpirit”. (Philippians 2:6)The “HolySpirit” is called God. (Acts 5:3-4)
The “HolySpirit” is Jesus' Father. (Luke 1:35)
One God and Father of all in you all. (Eph.4:4-6)
The Father in Jesus doeth the works. (John 14:10)
Blaspheming the “HolySpirit” will not be forgiven. (Matt.12:31)Is it so hard for you to then connect the dots?… HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ. (Click Here)
Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
PS> The link is for the readers.
Hi Mike,This Post is a reminder to you that I have indeed answered your question.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgI'm sorry Ed. Where again was I “asking for sympathy”?
And have you answered the first “finger” question I asked yet? My internet is VERY slow tonight, so I haven't been able to move around as freely as usual.
Don't bother answering, I'll find the OTHER thread in which you made the same post.
mike
Hi Mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,18:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:47)
That is wishful thinking isn't it, since being called Elohim or Theos “can mean one is God Almighty“?
Absolutely it can. But “CAN” and “MAYBE” in not enough to invent a son that can be the same exact being as his father, is it?
So you say, but you haven’t proved that Jesus is not “God” and that he is not “Almighty” have you?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,18:08)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:47)
All you have done is ignored the tons of evidence presented by the thousands even millions of believers that know he is God Almighty….
I haven't ignored it at all
Sure you have, for you have rejected pretty much all of the cream of Hebrew and Greek scholarship which disagrees with your “Arian” views.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,18:08)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:47)
They know by the Spirit that Jesus is God.
And I know by the Spirit (and basic common sense) that you are all falling for Satan's second best trick ever.
Yes of course “Mikes” common sense and “Mikes” straight track to God above all others who could not possibly be wrong and the millions be right. Ha Ha.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,18:08)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:47)
Your evidence and proofs against what the scriptures say and the Forefathers teach down to this day is bleak and scarce isn't it Mike?
The scriptures never teach that Jesus is our only true God, Keith. And some of the Forefathers were simply mistaken and mislead men, as are you.
Yes of course, they were weak minded compared to you right? Ha Ha.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,18:08) Jesus is called the “Son of God” somewhere around 41 times in scripture. And each of those 41 times screams, “The Son OF God cannot possibly BE the God he is the Son OF!”
Straw man for at least two reasons,1. You haven’t shown us how the term “Son of God” is antithetical to the word “God”.
Just like the term “Son of Man” is not antithetical too man.2. You are the Son of a human, does that mean you are not human? Saying Jesus being the Son of God means he is not God is a fallacy since the scriptures say he is in very nature God and especially since he is currently acting out the role of being God.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,18:08) And that's just one simple phrase, Keith. There are literally hundreds of scriptures that make it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that Jesus is NOT God Almighty. That doesn't sound “bleak” and “scarce” to me, brother.
Please show us again how the Scriptures are “ABUNDANTLY CLEAR” that Jesus is not “God” and how he is not “Almighty”?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,18:08)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:47)
You should be a JW or Mormon for they teach Polytheism like you do.
Keith, I'm tired of this accusation. I teach about the ONE TRUE GOD who created the heavens and earth and everything in them.
No you don’t you teach that God had a god who was beside him and with him created all things. That is not what the scriptures teach is it Mike? Didn’t he say God alone, by himself created all things?So go ahead and cry, but these are you words Mike…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2011,18:35) Jesus is the god, or “powerful ruler” of all in heaven right now, and of the believer's on earth. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2011,14:05) Jesus is one who has been called by the title “god”, so he is also “A god”. He has not specifically been called “THE god” of anything in particular, but knowing that “god” only means “ruler”, I can honestly say that he is “my god”.
This is the definition of Polytheism…The worship of or belief in more than one god. American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language
So do you believe in other gods or not?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,18:08)
You know I'm not a polytheist either, right Keith? So stop, please. It is a false accusation, and the next time I will report it.
No I don’t know you are not a Polytheist, and y
ou haven’t proven it by your teaching and the definition of a Polytheist.So report me but how do you see my claim as being worthy of being reported since I only use your teachings and the definition of Polytheism, yet you can make the following claim about my beliefs…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,18:08)
But as we now well know, Satan was pleasantly surprised by the results. He now has gotten millions upon millions to worship someone OTHER THAN YHVH as God Almighty. And in doing this, they also break DIRECT commands from God. Yep, old Satan is “smiling all the way to the bank” on this scam.
Which is worse Mike?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,18:08)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,04:47)
It is really hillarious that somehow you think you can disprove what has been believed by millions from the early first century till the present, especially since most all of the evidence and writings in history are against you. Ha Ha.
Yet, I'm doing it, aren't I? Scripture by scripture and point by point.
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 01 2011,10:21) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2011,06:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,10:37) Hi Marty, You have spoken correctly this time. GOD is the Father of Jesus. NOT God's Holy Spirit. God's Holy Spirit is the “tool” God used to impregnate Mary, like a human male will impregnate someone BY MEANS OF his penis. But the penis does not become the father of the child anymore than the PART OF God He used to impregnate Mary became the father of Jesus.
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike:The point that was being made is that the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of God and not a “Third Person” of some Tri-une God.
But that the Holy Ghost is called God here is a scripture for you to consider:
Quote Acts 5
1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,Now post the REST of the scripture.
Especially verse 9. Because THAT verse explains verse 4. By lying to the Spirit of God, you are in effect, lying directly to God. Just as if I told a lie to your face, you could either say I “lied to Marty” or that I “lied to Marty's face”.Just as YOUR arm is not the being of Marty, YHVH's Holy Spirit is not the being of God. It is a part OF God, as much as your arm is only a part OF Marty.
mike
Hi Mike:My understanding is that the Holy Spirit is God as manifest by the life that He lives. Just as my spirit is the person that I am as manifest by the life that I live.
The Holy Spirit would not exist apart from the soul of God just as my spirit would also not exist apart from my soul.
You may have heard also about blaphemy against the Holy Ghost. I don't want to go there.
I know that my Father dwells within me by His Spirit, and He is not some “Third Person” of some Tri-une God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,08:33) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 31 2011,15:54) Jesus called the Holy Ghost, “the Third Person of a Tri-une God?
MartyJesus made it clear that the Holy Ghost was “another” and not the Father proceeding from himself.
And I will pray “the Father, and “he (the Father) shall give you ANOTHER Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16
Greek for Another also means “other”.
Jesus also said…
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of “the Father”, and of “the Son, and of “the Holy Ghost“: Matt 28:19
Do you accept Jesus words Marty, or will you continue to hold onto your false doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the Father and Jesus is the Son of the Holy Spirit?
WJ
Hi Keith:1 Corininthians 2:7-13 tells us plainly that the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of God our Father.
And Jesus knew this, therefore he did not say go and baptize in the Tri-une formula.
And here, Jesus does say that it is the Father dwelling within him:
Quote John 14:10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
The comforter is “the Spirit of Truth”.
Quote John 14:16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
But that Spirit was already with the disciples because he was dwelling within Jesus, and the promise is that he will also dwell within us.
The Comforter is the Holy Ghost:
Quote John 14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. The comforter is the Spirit of Truth that proceeds from the Father and testifies concerning His Son, Christ Jesus.
Quote John 15:26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Again, The Comforter is the Spirit of Truth who is glorifying His by leading us into all truths in His Word.
Quote 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
And Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary.
Quote Matthew 1:20 (King James Version)
20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2011,13:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,08:33) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 31 2011,15:54) Jesus called the Holy Ghost, “the Third Person of a Tri-une God?
MartyJesus made it clear that the Holy Ghost was “another” and not the Father proceeding from himself.
And I will pray “the Father, and “he (the Father) shall give you ANOTHER Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16
Greek for Another also means “other”.
Jesus also said…
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of “the Father”, and of “the Son, and of “the Holy Ghost“: Matt 28:19
Do you accept Jesus words Marty, or will you continue to hold onto your false doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the Father and Jesus is the Son of the Holy Spirit?
WJ
Hi Keith:1 Corininthians 2:7-13 tells us plainly that the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of God our Father.
MartyThat is called being selective, for you have rejected Jesus own words in both scriptures I gave you. And there are more that teach the Holy Spirit is not the Father.
WJ
Quote (thankful @ Jan. 31 2011,17:14) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,11:16) Quote (thankful @ Jan. 31 2011,15:35) hello worshippingjesus, i have a question i would like answered by a trinitarian and i see you may be one ? Quote (thankful @ Jan. 31 2011,17:14)
why did yahshua say that he could only do what he saw his father doing?thankyou.
Hi And welcome!Good question, the answer is because he is in very nature God, (Phil 2:6 NIV) like the Father.
His statement is proof of his deity for what other man or woman could say “That they “could only do what they see the Father do“?
This means he is in perfect unity with the Father and unlike every other man who “does not” nor “cannot” do only what they see the Father do, Jesus who is perfect in nature with the Father as God, can do all things he sees the Father do.
Unless you think you are perfect like the Father.
WJ
hello worshippingjesus, thank you.i was not making suggestions of any kind, only asking a question that had been bugging me for ages and i was seeking an answer from a truthful trinitarian.
Hi thankfulAnd I gave you an explanation and one that you must not have understood. So let me clarify a little more since it seems you did not understand my answer…
Jesus said…
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, “but what he seeth the Father do: FOR WHAT THINGS SOEVER HE DOETH, THESE ALSO doeth the Son likewise. John 5:19
So when you said…
Quote (thankful @ Jan. 31 2011,17:14)
why did yahshua say that he could only do what he saw his father doing?
It was only part of Jesus words taken out of their context.Now notice the words…
“THESE ALSO doeth the Son likewise”
Can any man say that he can do whatever the Father does? When we are the instrument of a miracle we can never make the claim “we did it” nor could we ever say “whatever the Father does “these also” we do likewise”. Remember Peter said to the crippled man at the Temple that it was by the name “Jesus” that the man was made whole and not by his (Peters) power.
Quote (thankful @ Jan. 31 2011,17:14) worshippingjesus, you say that jesus is in essence God because only he can do what his father does.
Well those are your words and not mine, and apparently you didn’t understand me.I am saying that for Jesus to say that he “could only do” what he sees his Father do is proof of his deity because he is saying that it is “not possible” for him to do anything but what he sees his Father do. No other man could make that statement.
Quote (thankful @ Jan. 31 2011,17:14) well, my confusion is still with me because are not the elected saints and holy ones, they that also overcome in jesus' name, are they, the 144 000, are they not to become like jesus doing what he does? if so, and scriptures says they will, then are they then 'in essence jesus christ'?
and, if in essence jesus christ, then God, in essence, also?
144,000 Gods?
I see why you are confused for it seems that to you Jesus is no different than those who overcame even though it is only because of Jesus they overcame. They were not the “essence of the Fathers person”, (Heb 1:3) Jesus is.Quote (thankful @ Jan. 31 2011,17:14) worshippingjesus, do you see my confusion? thank you for your expected truthful response !
That’s my truthful answer.Now can you answer a question for me? In what sense is Jesus not God since Jesus contains all authority and power and the attributes and characteristics of God?
WJ
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Feb. 01 2011,13:10) Quote (thankful @ Feb. 01 2011,03:14) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 01 2011,11:16) Quote (thankful @ Jan. 31 2011,15:35) hello worshippingjesus, i have a question i would like answered by a trinitarian and i see you may be one ? why did yahshua say that he could only do what he saw his father doing?
thankyou.
Hi And welcome!Good question, the answer is because he is in very nature God, (Phil 2:6 NIV) like the Father.
His statement is proof of his deity for what other man or woman could say “That they “could only do what they see the Father do“?
This means he is in perfect unity with the Father and unlike every other man who “does not” nor “cannot” do only what they see the Father do, Jesus who is perfect in nature with the Father as God, can do all things he sees the Father do.
Unless you think you are perfect like the Father.
WJ
hello worshippingjesus, thank you.i was not making suggestions of any kind, only asking a question that had been bugging me for ages and i was seeking an answer from a truthful trinitarian.
worshippingjesus, you say that jesus is in essence God because only he can do what his father does. well, my confusion is still with me because are not the elected saints and holy ones, they that also overcome in jesus' name, are they, the 144 000, are they not to become like jesus doing what he does? if so, and scriptures says they will, then are they then 'in essence jesus christ'?
and, if in essence jesus christ, then God, in essence, also?
144,000 Gods?worshippingjesus, do you see my confusion? thank you for your expected truthful response !
God bless.
Romans 8:29we will be in the image of the Son.
Your confusion is on how you look at the “son” or Jesus.We are saying that Jesus is God. but Jesus is not like us.
He was Perect, but through him we can reach perfection and be perfect like the father is.
Matthew 5:48 (King James Version)48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
How is this accomplished? through Jesus.We are to be perfect, but the only way we can do that is through Jesus who is God incarnated in flesh likeness.
144,000 are 12,000 from each tribe of Israel, who are sealed with seal of God.
we cannot speculate any further from there because it has not happen yet.worry about now, and not about things that we cannot understand.
hello simplyforgiven, thank you for your reply.your last point about the 144,000 being irrelevant, maybe it is because you cannot reconcile how there can be 144,000 perfect human who will also be God the father?
jesus was subject to sin and bodily corruption just like all humans; he was MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MAN! however…he OVERCAME SIN and died for it…therefore he was made perfect (Romans 1:4) by the resurrection to everlasting life and in an incorruptible body by the raising up from the death in the body.
even leading a perfect life does not make him perfect because he was flesh. even adam was not perfect… but God aimed to make him perfect, just as jesus did, and to become a spiritual son, not just a fleshly son.
the spiritual son is not subject to sin: adam was flesh, and he did sin.
jesus was subject to sin as flesh, but when he became the begotten, the spiritual son, he was no longer subject to sin.
so, simply forgiven,. scriptures says we are to become like jesus. he showed us the way to the father. and 144,000 will become like jesus.
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