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Marlin,
I ORIGINALLY expected better from you. I ORIGINALLY had high hopes and great expectations. But, as the discussion progressed, I eventually knew it would end just as it has – with you not being able to address any of my scriptural points, and resorting instead to what amounts to name-calling.
I have told you repeatedly that I don't worship Jesus. I worship the God of Jesus. Yes, scripturally Jesus is a god, just like Satan and many others are gods. But NO, he is not the Most High God. I worship only the Most High God, just as my Lord Jesus instructed me.
I've also repeatedly told you that I don't pray TO Jesus. I pray TO the God of Jesus THROUGH the one He set up as mediator BETWEEN us and Him.
I have no idea what DD and LDD even means, but rest assured that I don't belong to any religious affiliation, and all of my points have come directly from scripture.
You say MY doctrine is flawed? Really? Let's see……….
1. I believe that God sent His only begotten Son into the world. You believe that God Himself came in the flesh. Which one does scripture actually teach?
2. I pray to my Father in heaven. You pray to the Son and the Father. Which one did Jesus teach us to do?
3. I believe that Jesus is the Son of the Most High God, just as the Father revealed to Peter. You don't like that revelation that the Father gave to Peter, and so IMAGINE that it was revealed that Jesus was God Himself, and not the Son of God.
I could go on and on and on, Marlin. But remember that YOU couldn't address even ONE of my scriptural points. You just kept RUNNING from my points, and bringing up yet other points – points that I immediately rebuked using scripture. Points that you then ran away from to bring up even more points. And so on, and so on.
I wish one of you “Jesus is God” people would actually STAND AND DEFEND the things you claim for once.
If you ever get real, and want to get to the TRUTH of the scriptures, start with this point:
Matthew 16
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Marlin, WHO was it revealed to Peter that Jesus was?
A. The Living God?
B. The SON OF the Living God?Which one?
Oh, and I'll leave you with one more scriptural TRUTH:
John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”Marlin, WHO do you think Jesus referred to as “my Father” and “my God”?
(Hint: WHOEVER that person is, He is also OUR Father and OUR God. So unless the Father and God of Jesus is some blend of Father and Son, then OUR God is not some blend of Father and Son.)
Get it? OUR God is Jesus' God. If Jesus' God is the Father, then OUR God is the Father. End of story.
Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 27 2012,12:46) Quote Hi Marlin, “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.” (John 5:31)
Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true” (John 8:14)Would you say that Luke 10:30 could be understood to be Jesus saying a parable about himself dying on the cross?
Luke 10:30: And Jesus answering said, A certain man(Jesus of Nazareth) went down from Jerusalem
to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment (John 19:24),
and wounded him, and departed, leaving him HALF DEAD.Hi Brother Ed,
This story was not about Jesus, it was about who would help a wounded man.
That being said, I can see what you are trying to show.
Jesus being God in His Son-ship, the SPIRIT had to LEAVE for the FLESH to DIE.(1) It is NOT TRUE that Jesus was born with a SINFUL NATURE as you think. The only part that
(2) Mary had to do with it is that she was a surrogate mother (Both Egg & Blood provided by God). And that She and Joseph raised Him as there own.God Bless
bro. Marlin
Hi bro. Marlin,1) Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? …um, a, dah, um …I mean in my MIND.
2) Mary was indeed Jesus biological Mother, scripture clearly declares such.
(See Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20, Matt.2:11, Luke 1:35, and Acts 1:14)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote 1) Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? …um, a, dah, um …I mean in my MIND. 2) Mary was indeed Jesus biological Mother, scripture clearly declares such.
(See Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20, Matt.2:11, Luke 1:35, and Acts 1:14)God bless
Ed JBrother Ed,
Your scriptures do not prove what you think. Mary was made of sinful flesh just like the rest of us. If it was her egg, as you suppose, then Jesus was also born in sinful flesh and unable to fulfill God's law.
Just think for a minute about your two points above. In point 1) you say I am trying to put words in your mouth, then in point 2) you prove what I said.
Only one person was worthy to save mankind and He was born SINLESS. You make Him born a sinner, just like the rest of us.
ROM 7:25 † I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Mans flesh nature is FALLENGod Bless
bro. MarlinQuote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 28 2012,12:36) Quote 1) Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? …um, a, dah, um …I mean in my MIND. 2) Mary was indeed Jesus biological Mother, scripture clearly declares such.
(See Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20, Matt.2:11, Luke 1:35, and Acts 1:14)God bless
Ed JBrother Ed,
Your scriptures do not prove what you think. Mary was made of sinful flesh just like the rest of us. (A)If it was her egg, as you suppose, then Jesus was also born in sinful flesh and unable to fulfill God's law.
Just think for a minute about your two points above. In point 1) you say I am trying to put words in your mouth, then in point 2) (B)you prove what I said.
(C)Only one person was worthy to save mankind and He was born SINLESS. (D)You make Him born a sinner , just like the rest of us.
ROM 7:25 † I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Mans flesh nature is FALLENGod Bless
bro. Marlin
Hi Marlin,A) Incorrect logic
B) False
C) Agreed
D) Now you're making a false accusationGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgBrother Mike,
COLOSSIANS 1:14 † In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 † Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 † For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:JOHN 1:3 † All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Are you sure that Jesus is just a little god that you do not worship.
God Bless
bro. MarlinMarlin1……..If you have a Greek word dictionary make a search on the Word “BY” it can equally mean For as in For sake of. All of creation was Made by One GOD for the Sake of Gods Children and Jesus was the First born to that created Purpose from all creation but by no mean the only one that ever will be. He is the, FIRST of MANY BRETHREN it says.
Another point was when Jesus was praying was he praying to himself , your idea of Jesus being the very God of all creation becomes quite complicated when you take all scriptures into consideration. Jesus was simply a prophesied Human Being, coming into existence at his berth on this earth Just as we do. Granted his DNA was constructed by the Holy Spirit but that was so he would look a particular way as described in scriptures like in Isaiah. Actually Adam and Eve's creation was a greater creative work then Jesus' berth was. Jesus like us was born of a women he was a Born human, while Adam and Eve were created humans.
Another point i would like to mention here is Jesus said over and over He was a SON of MAN, I think we can agree with that right? But Scripture quotes God as saying this. “God is “NOT” a man that he should lie or a “SON OF MAN” that he should repent. Jesus said he was a son of man. He was also a Son of God having received the Holy Spirit at the Jordan river, John say we are also Sons of God to, and we all know we are son of man also. Remember it say “that God may be “IN” all and “though” All. God is a Spirit and can indwell anyone he choses to.
Your inability to understand that God was “in” Jesus lies in the fact you do not understand what a Spirit is IMO Brother, but you are not alone most have no idea what a Spirit is. Spirits are not “flesh” but are what is [/B] in Flesh beings. Imputing intellects of different Kind and Types. That is why it says we are to try the Spirits to see if they are of GOD, because God Spirit produces “IN” us a Particular Type and Kind of Nature and the “Spirit of truth” give the ability to have the cognate intellect of Truth in all who have it. Brother.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………gene
gene and m1
Quote Marlin1……..If you have a Greek word dictionary make a search on the Word “BY” it can equally mean For as in For sake of. All of creation was Made by One GOD for the Sake of Gods Children and Jesus was the First born to that created Purpose from all creation but by no mean the only one that ever will be. He is the, FIRST of MANY BRETHREN it says. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,understand what Paul is saying here ;Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
how can he do that
what was the godly rule that allow Christ to do that ???and be successful with itQuote Marlin1……..
1) If you have a Greek word dictionary make a search on the Word “BY” it can equally mean For as in For sake of. All of creation was Made by One GOD for the Sake of Gods Children and Jesus was the First born to that created Purpose from all creation but by no mean the only one that ever will be. He is the, FIRST of MANY BRETHREN it says.2) Another point was when Jesus was praying was he praying to himself , your idea of Jesus being the very God of all creation becomes quite complicated when you take all scriptures into consideration. Jesus was simply a prophesied Human Being, coming into existence at his berth on this earth Just as we do. Granted his DNA was constructed by the Holy Spirit but that was so he would look a particular way as described in scriptures like in Isaiah. Actually Adam and Eve's creation was a greater creative work then Jesus' berth was. Jesus like us was born of a women he was a Born human, while Adam and Eve were created humans.
3) Another point i would like to mention here is Jesus said over and over He was a SON of MAN, I think we can agree with that right? But Scripture quotes God as saying this. “God is “NOT” a man that he should lie or a “SON OF MAN” that he should repent. Jesus said he was a son of man. He was also a Son of God having received the Holy Spirit at the Jordan river, John say we are also Sons of God to, and we all know we are son of man also. Remember it say “that God may be “IN” all and “though” All. God is a Spirit and can indwell anyone he choses to.
Your inability to understand that God was “in” Jesus lies in the fact you do not understand what a Spirit is IMO Brother, but you are not alone most have no idea what a Spirit is. Spirits are not “flesh” but are what is [/B] in Flesh beings. Imputing intellects of different Kind and Types. That is why it says we are to try the Spirits to see if they are of GOD, because God Spirit produces “IN” us a Particular Type and Kind of Nature and the “Spirit of truth” give the ability to have the cognate intellect of Truth in all who have it. Brother.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………gene
How you doing Brother Gene,
point 1) OK, it can be “for”, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.
point 2) The Spirit of God is in US, right. Do you pray to yourself or the Spirit in you?
Or do you pray to your Father in Heaven?I would somewhat disagree that creating Jesus was easier then Adam. We have no understanding of what it takes to create life, do we? Weather that be full grown or a single cell, it is LIFE.
I do agree with you, He was totally of GOD, none of Mary or Joseph's DNA was in Him.
point 3) Actually, He is Emanuel (GOD with us), He is the Word made Flesh.
So who my brother is the WORD, Is not the Greek for “WORD” in John 1, LOGOS, and what is the definition of LOGOS.
Define LOGOS—-1a) a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
In the beginning was the LOGOS, which was the Word, which was God’s “Theophany”. It was a visible body of the great Jehovah God going forth in the beginning.
That Logos was God’s “express image”. It was God Himself made into Word. That Logos that went out from the great eternal Spirit was called the “Son” of God. It was the only visible form that this Spirit had. And It was a “theophany”, which means a celestial body, and that body was like a “man”.
John 1:1-3, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made” ..And the Word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us.” (John 1:1-3,14).
The “theophany”, which was the Son, is also what’s spoken of in
Colossians 1:15-17, which reads: “Who is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or
principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and He is before all things, and by him all things consist.”Let us make no mistake of who we are speaking of here,
COL 1:14 † In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:That theophany of God was then made FLESH on earth later on in the Person of Jesus Christ through the womb of Mary.
JOHN 14:16 † And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, (THE HOLY GHOST, Gods own Spirit), that he may abide with you for ever;
JOHN 14:26 † But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
The Father will give and send the Holy Ghost, right?
JOHN 16:7 † Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
JOHN 14:18 † I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Now Jesus is the Giver and He is the ONE that WILL COME.
It is the same God all the time.
Just a different dispensation, God Above US, God With US, God In US.The ONE TRUE GOD was manifest in the FLESH. That’s how SIMPLE it is. GOD CAME IN
A HUMAN FORM. That didn’t make Him another God. He was GOD, THE SAME GOD.
JOHN 8:24 † ……. for if ye believe not that I am HE, (GOD), ye shall die in your sins.God Bless
bro. MarlinQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 27 2012,10:45) Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 27 2012,12:46) Quote Hi Marlin, “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.” (John 5:31)
Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true” (John 8:14)Would you say that Luke 10:30 could be understood to be Jesus saying a parable about himself dying on the cross?
Luke 10:30: And Jesus answering said, A certain man(Jesus of Nazareth) went down from Jerusalem
to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment (John 19:24),
and wounded him, and departed, leaving him HALF DEAD.Hi Brother Ed,
This story was not about Jesus, it was about who would help a wounded man.
That being said, I can see what you are trying to show.
Jesus being God in His Son-ship, the SPIRIT had to LEAVE for the FLESH to DIE.(1) It is NOT TRUE that Jesus was born with a SINFUL NATURE as you think. The only part that
(2) Mary had to do with it is that she was a surrogate mother (Both Egg & Blood provided by God). And that She and Joseph raised Him as there own.God Bless
bro. Marlin
Hi bro. Marlin,1) Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? …um, a, dah, um …I mean in my MIND.
2) Mary was indeed Jesus biological Mother, scripture clearly declares such.
(See Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20, Matt.2:11, Luke 1:35, and Acts 1:14)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edthose scriptures you are quoting do not deny that mary was the mother being a surrogate Mother still his a mother ,
how could the son of God created in the same nature than his father become a man that will pay the prize for our sins unless God intervine to make it happen ,Mary was the servant of God and so provided her body to bring the son of God the savior by choice by God ,why would God use sinfull flesh
can sinfull flesh save
is some thing pure and holy sinfull ???not to meQuote (terraricca @ Nov. 29 2012,14:18) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 27 2012,10:45) Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 27 2012,12:46) Quote Hi Marlin, “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.” (John 5:31)
Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true” (John 8:14)Would you say that Luke 10:30 could be understood to be Jesus saying a parable about himself dying on the cross?
Luke 10:30: And Jesus answering said, A certain man(Jesus of Nazareth) went down from Jerusalem
to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment (John 19:24),
and wounded him, and departed, leaving him HALF DEAD.Hi Brother Ed,
This story was not about Jesus, it was about who would help a wounded man.
That being said, I can see what you are trying to show.
Jesus being God in His Son-ship, the SPIRIT had to LEAVE for the FLESH to DIE.(1) It is NOT TRUE that Jesus was born with a SINFUL NATURE as you think. The only part that
(2) Mary had to do with it is that she was a surrogate mother (Both Egg & Blood provided by God). And that She and Joseph raised Him as there own.God Bless
bro. Marlin
Hi bro. Marlin,1) Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? …um, a, dah, um …I mean in my MIND.
2) Mary was indeed Jesus biological Mother, scripture clearly declares such.
(See Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20, Matt.2:11, Luke 1:35, and Acts 1:14)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edthose scriptures you are quoting do not deny that mary was the mother being a surrogate Mother still his a mother ,
how could the son of God created in the same nature than his father become a man that will pay the prize for our sins unless God intervine to make it happen ,Mary was the servant of God and so provided her body to bring the son of God the savior by choice by God ,why would God use sinfull flesh
can sinfull flesh save
is some thing pure and holy sinfull ???not to me
Hi Pierre,How can Jesus be of the lineage of David if Mary is not his biological Mother?
“Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of
the seed of David according to the flesh;” (Romans 1:3)Do you even know what a surrogate Mother is?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Pierre,
Jesus was NOT sinful, why are you suggesting 'falsely' that I said he was?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 29 2012,14:27) Hi Pierre, How can Jesus be of the lineage of David if Mary is not his biological Mother?
“Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of
the seed of David according to the flesh;” (Romans 1:3)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgYou seem to be suggesting that he wasn't, right?
.Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 29 2012,09:27) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 29 2012,14:18) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 27 2012,10:45) Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 27 2012,12:46) Quote Hi Marlin, “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.” (John 5:31)
Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true” (John 8:14)Would you say that Luke 10:30 could be understood to be Jesus saying a parable about himself dying on the cross?
Luke 10:30: And Jesus answering said, A certain man(Jesus of Nazareth) went down from Jerusalem
to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment (John 19:24),
and wounded him, and departed, leaving him HALF DEAD.Hi Brother Ed,
This story was not about Jesus, it was about who would help a wounded man.
That being said, I can see what you are trying to show.
Jesus being God in His Son-ship, the SPIRIT had to LEAVE for the FLESH to DIE.(1) It is NOT TRUE that Jesus was born with a SINFUL NATURE as you think. The only part that
(2) Mary had to do with it is that she was a surrogate mother (Both Egg & Blood provided by God). And that She and Joseph raised Him as there own.God Bless
bro. Marlin
Hi bro. Marlin,1) Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? …um, a, dah, um …I mean in my MIND.
2) Mary was indeed Jesus biological Mother, scripture clearly declares such.
(See Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20, Matt.2:11, Luke 1:35, and Acts 1:14)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edthose scriptures you are quoting do not deny that mary was the mother being a surrogate Mother still his a mother ,
how could the son of God created in the same nature than his father become a man that will pay the prize for our sins unless God intervine to make it happen ,Mary was the servant of God and so provided her body to bring the son of God the savior by choice by God ,why would God use sinfull flesh
can sinfull flesh save
is some thing pure and holy sinfull ???not to me
Hi Pierre,How can Jesus be of the lineage of David if Mary is not his biological Mother?
“Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of
the seed of David according to the flesh;” (Romans 1:3)Do you even know what a surrogate Mother is?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edwhat is it with you does all what God does is of men even if he uses an man ,was really Samson so strong that he would not need God
was Israel so strong and wining wars that it could do it on its own without God
now you explain to me how is it that God need men ,??? the fact that God uses men for men own deliverance is so men can be part of the works that neede to be done for his own salvation ,God provided the perfect lamb without sin blameless in all regards and so able to save men ,what greater gift can a man give but his live for his friends ,
the only return God ask of us is to believe that Christ is his son and the sacrifice for the live of all men that believes in him,
yes God has provided the best of all his
heavenly flockQuote those scriptures you are quoting do not deny that mary was the mother being a surrogate Mother still his a mother , how could the son of God created in the same nature than his father become a man that will pay the prize for our sins unless God intervine to make it happen ,Mary was the servant of God and so provided her body to bring the son of God the savior by choice by God ,why would God use sinfull flesh
can sinfull flesh save
is some thing pure and holy sinfull ???not to me————–
PierreBrother Pierre,
In this we are in agreement. Mary had NO DNA in Jesus.
bro. Marlin
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 29 2012,13:21) Are you going to answer my question now?
edHi Pierre,
How can Jesus be of the lineage of David if Mary is not his biological Mother?
answer me this question first ;how can God be our father if he his not a human
Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 27 2012,21:54) Brother Mike, COLOSSIANS 1:14 † In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 † Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 † For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:JOHN 1:3 † All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Are you sure that Jesus is just a little god that you do not worship.
God Bless
bro. Marlin
True to form, you have ignored my big, bolded questions in the last post, and opted instead to post EVEN MORE “Jesus is God proofs”.
1. As Gene pointed out, the Greek word “en” in Col 1:16 can be translated a number of ways. “Through” is one way it can be translated, and the KJV uses “through” 39 times in their version.
The same goes with the Greek word “dia” in John 1:3. The KJV translates that word as “through” 88 times.
There is one scripture that can decide for us which translation is best:
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.This scripture, since it contrasts God with His holy servant Jesus Christ, helps to sort out the proper translation in Col 1:16 and John 1:3. In 8:6, we can clearly see that all things came FROM God, and THROUGH Jesus.
2. Another good test is to compare the MANY times scripture says “God created….”, or “God made….”, etc. Many scriptures place God as the subject of the sentence, and clearly declare that He “created” or “made” the heavens, the earth, and all things in them. There is no scripture that lists Jesus as the subject, and makes such a claim about him, ie: “Jesus created…..”, or “Jesus made…….”.
3. And finally, there are many scriptures that list God as the Creator of all things WHILE AT THE SAME TIME listing Jesus as someone OTHER THAN that Creator. I will point you to just one of them:
Acts 4
24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.You can see that the prayer is addressed to the ONE who “made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them”, right?
Acts 4
27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”
In verses 27 and 30, it is abundantly clear that Jesus is NOT the One who “made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them”……………. but instead, the holy servant OF that One. (As a side note, if Jesus is NOT the One who “made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them”, then he has no choice but to be one of the “everything” that was made BY that One.)
I suggest you use a translation of “through” in Col 1:16, and John 1:3. Doing so will help you to understand what the scriptures really teach.
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