Law

[GeneBalthrop]

Mandy………Sis i was just like you are, I had heard about God from my Grandmother , Mother, Father, Neighbors, Relatives all my young Life. But was never convinced there was a GOD or that He gave a rip about me. I know i need Help though because of my sins and even was Baptized when i was 21 yrs old , Just got wet thats all, Got up out of that Baptismal Pool, waited for the (HOLY SPIRIT) and nothing, so i left there never to return, why should i waste my life with assumptions. But my Dad Kept talking to me about God and even Gave me some Books to read, and I told Him they were using fear to control people. But i decide to read and search for my self, and while much of what i read made sense, I still was not sure that there was a GOD and even if there were , did he care about me, was there any reality to all this stuff i have heard all my life.

So i decided to find some where i could prove His reality for My Self. I came across Malachi where GOD said (PROVE ME) here with. There was the challenge i was looking for, It Had to do with tithing , but i didn't care about the tithing part I only cared about the Prove Me part. So I took the challenge , I gave a tithe of my Check and my wife went ballistic, because we really needed the money i earned to live on, But i insisted on doing it ONLY once and Said if GOD didn't do His part the i would never do it again. I had so many things Happen in me life it would take two or three pages here to tell you it all , As long as i kept doing what i was doing GOD Kept Blessing me more and more . Now i am not telling anyone to tithe anything to any church, because that had nothing to do with it, In fact when i Joined a church and came under the Law of tithing it no longer worked, You see it wasn't about tithing it was about the proof of GOD'S existence in my life, and dealing with me personally. You see i was exactly where you are I was not going to buy the BS any more, either GOD is real or Not and He is dealing with a person or Not, But to assume He is based on NO real tangible evidence to you personally, gives you every right to question His relationship with you. This courage you have will ultimately produce real true Faith. Be patient what your after is not wrong Sis. You remind me of the two Vultures sitting on a High line wire , one turns to the other and say (Patience my ass, i am going to Kill me something). Mandy there is a real GOD, and I know in my Heart He love you exceedingly. I will pray that he will reveal Himself to you Sis.

love and peace to you and yours Sis…………………………gene

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 26 2009,08:43)

Yes, DK, the answer to our questions is always, “Trust Him….”. But I simply am having trouble trusting something that isn't there.  Along with being somewhat child-like, I am also a realist. I believe there is a God.  Because I want to. But that belief is just a passing idea with no real structure to it……for the bible tells me so……doesn't seem to work anymore. What's left?  His voice?  Being led by the Spirit?  Those are just words.  They are just words because in reality, they don't exist. I know.  I've tried to make them real.  I've tried real hard.  I've had faith like nobody's business.  I've done it all. And it wasn't good enough. I'm sure God loves Kathi, and Nick, and Bro Gene and Marty —- they all seem to get it.  So He talks to them and tells them great mysteries.  But Mandy?  Forget about her – she'll never get it.  She's just a little doubter-pants!! God isn't coming after me.  He isn't breaking through the silence.  I don't hear anything.  I don't see anything.  I reach out….and nothing is there.  Nothing. Thanks for caring, DK.   Love, Mandy

We seem to be in about the same place Mandy. Except that I do believe that there is a God. But not hte one that the bible describes.
In another thread Nick quotes Jas to imply that we
who are not being lead by God just do not have enough faith.

“Jas1
5But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

6But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind.

7For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord,”

Nick can not know how strong my faith was at one time.
How during that time I studied every word in the bible, more than once. No one but I can know how fervently I prayed for the Holy Spirit to give me understanding of the scriptures that paint God as some despicable entity, no better than the pagan gods that He replaced. But no understanding was given to me.

So I am left to think it is becasue I was praying to the wrong God. I was paying to that God in the O.T.
God is not like the one pictured in the bible, so He was not going to justify Himself according to the bible because that was not who He was..

I believe in God. I know that God has worked miracles in my life. I don't want to dishonor Him by serving the wrong God, but He has chosen to not help me determine His identity. Surely if He was the one in the O.T. He would have been happy to confirm that to me. I have come to the conclusion that we should just love the God that we know. Not the one that someone else tries to tell us we should worship.

I know that to most everyone else here it is heresy to not believe any part of the bible. What I want to know is, why did God let me study in order to begin to not believe in it. I was a dumb happy Christian before I started to really study
the bible. I absolutely do not see all the “beauty and harmony” in all of the butchering and killing that everyone else sees.

Tim

[Not3in1]

Bro Gene, thank you for your words, and your prayers.

Sure, I'll be patient some more.
What choice do I have?

Love,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Tim,

Just this afternoon I was praying the same thing, “Why did I study the bible for so long (hours and hours a day), only to come to this place of disbelief?”.  And again…..I heard nothing.

I think I heard nothing because I did not fill in the blanks…….

I appreciate your support, Tim.  It makes me feel less alone.  Even though I wish for us both a super revelation or insight.  Some sort of something to help us believe again; to believe in something real. I know you say that you believe in God. So do I. But what do we do with the Bible? I'm not sure how we seperate all of it. Can it be done?

Love,
Mandy

[SEEKING]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 25 2009,17:00)

” But what do we do with the Bible?”

Mandy,

I have read much of what you post and see you as a person who is a woman after God's own heart. Often, when I have erred, struggled, sinned – I found great comfort in the fact God did not give up on David with all his problems.

I am convinced that seeking knowledge thinking it would lead me to God hurt me often. Oh yes, before a debater jumps in, we need to know some things but knowledge can destroy.

Paul wrote, 1Cor.8:1 ” “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up.” What to do with the Bible? May I suggest – spend your time discovering God's love for you. Receive it, accept it, own it. All the knowledge on all these posts cannot hold a candle to knowing His love.

Let Him wrap you up and hold you in His arms of love!

I too am praying for you. You will return stronger than ever.

Be blessed and favored,

Seeking

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Why should lack of understanding make us stumble.
Knowledge is not the end we look forward to in faith.

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 6:11
And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 Peter 1:13
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 26 2009,11:00)

Tim, Just this afternoon I was praying the same thing, “Why did I study the bible for so long (hours and hours a day), only to come to this place of disbelief?”.  And again…..I heard nothing. I think I heard nothing because I did not fill in the blanks……. I appreciate your support, Tim.  It makes me feel less alone.  Even though I wish for us both a super revelation or insight.  Some sort of something to help us believe again; to believe in something real.  I know you say that you believe in God.  So do I.  But what do we do with the Bible?  I'm not sure how we seperate all of it.  Can it be done? Love, Mandy

Hi Mandy,
I will tell you what I do with the bible.
I do what every other CHristian does but will not admit it.
I pick and choose.

I read the bible for what I can find that is good in it.
And there is much to enjoy.
I seperate the wheat from the chaff.
In my opinion, some of it is not from God, unless it is from the god of this earth. That material I reject as not being the word of God. Who is to know that is not what God wants us to do.
Who really knows that God did ot want for us to know the difference? Maybe the people are wrong who are trying to justify all of the atrocities attributed to God.

Tim

[GeneBalthrop]

Tim……..Around 20 yrs ago i had come to the same conclusions you are experiencing, I had read where God did all this horrible things to the Children of Israel and I couldn't reconcile it with the GOD of Love we read about. I even got a real bad attitude and began resented Him for being so cruel, He calls people and then Kills them and Make them even eat their own children , Hardly a God of Love i throught, I mean what could they have done to warrant such Evil.

So GOD taught me a lesson , Now i had a son who I gave everything to and ask very little of Him, and one day I wanted Him to mow the Lawn, He was in High School and Was filling up His pick truck I brought Him with gas, and I ask Him to mow the lawn , He Just neglected me and Jumped into the truck and drove of, I became so angry at him, So I jumped on the mower and began mowing the laws I was extremely angry and was cursing Him and saying how unappreciative He was for all the things i have done for Him , I was real angry, and driving around Mowing and cursing Him and suddenly this Voice said to me why are you so upset gene and I said because my son does not appreciate all the thing i do for him, and He said and what do you think Israel did to Me, they even said that Pagan gods gave them the things i gave them they spurned me and insulted me and gave credit for what i did to others, they did not applicate me or anything i did for them, So how is it over this little thing you are angry, and did I not have every right to do to them what i did. And right there Tim my feelings toward GOD changed Back to where they were before . I realized He had every right to do to them what He did. GOD Has feelings to Brother and can become angry also, Israel hert His heart and He struck them for it. He had every right to do what he did brother. What helps is to look at what all God really did for them and what they did to him in return. IMO

love and peace to you and yours……………………….gene

[NickHassan]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 26 2009,11:43)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 26 2009,11:00) Tim, Just this afternoon I was praying the same thing, “Why did I study the bible for so long (hours and hours a day), only to come to this place of disbelief?”.  And again…..I heard nothing. I think I heard nothing because I did not fill in the blanks……. I appreciate your support, Tim.  It makes me feel less alone.  Even though I wish for us both a super revelation or insight.  Some sort of something to help us believe again; to believe in something real.  I know you say that you believe in God.  So do I.  But what do we do with the Bible?  I'm not sure how we seperate all of it.  Can it be done? Love, Mandy Hi Mandy, I will tell you what I do with the bible. I do what every other CHristian does but will not admit it. I pick and choose. I read the bible for what I can find that is good in it. And there is much to enjoy. I seperate the wheat from the chaff. In my opinion, some of it is not from God, unless it is from the god of this earth. That material I reject as not being the word of God. Who is to know that is not what God wants us to do. Who really knows that God did ot want for us to know the difference? Maybe the people are wrong who are trying to justify all of the atrocities attributed to God. Tim

Hi tim4,
So the God of the bible is not nice enough to be your God?
God owes nobody anything.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……….thats like saying you don't owe your children anything. Can you honestly say that brother. GOD is Our Father and He does owe us things and we owe Him things also. One of the things is respect for who and what He is,. Tim is just seeking the reasons for the behavior God the Father exhibited at times. Once GOD shows Him he will understand , i know i did.

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

[NickHassan]

G,
God does not recognise any relationship between Himself and the heathen.
He owes nobody any favours, even the favour of another day of life.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……….Post scripture that God does not recognize any relationship between Himself and the heathen as you say. Is He the GOD of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes of the Gentiles also. For He sends rain on the Just and the unjust alike. God is the God of all people on the face of the earth. So in you mind God Causes to be born but Just throws people out into the street to die because He owns them nothing right, What Kind of God do you serve Nick. Sounds like a irresponsible and uncaring GOD to me. IMO

peace………………………….gene

[kerwin]

Anyone who wishes to listen,

Nick Hassan wrote:

Quote

He owes nobody any favors, even the favor of another day of life.

It is correct that no one is entitled to anything from God.  In fact all we justly deserve is death for we have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.   Still God is willing to let bygones be bygones if we choose to seek to do all that He commands.   The relationship that God has with the unbelievers is that He strives to bring them to the realization that what they do is evil and without Him they will continue to do evil.  He hopes that once they realize this that they will cry out for Him to deliver them from their sins and persist in crying out.  

There are many who do not understand Justice because the spirit of enabling evil has gone into the world.  They refuse to acknowledge that by enabling evil they are taking part in it.  Even their own priests (psychiatrists) tell them enabling is wrong and yet they continue to do it.   They judge God because He does not embrace evil like they do. Their actions show that Satan has grabbed hold of their heart.   Once they remove that beam from their eye then they will truly see there is no speck in God’s eye.  I hope they confess their sin so that God will lead them to Jesus who will cleanse them of all unrighteousness.

[TimothyVI]

Well there you have it. Now I must be a heathen according to Nick, and all I, and all humanity, justly deserves is death according to kerwin, all because we are exactly as God made us.

Kerwin, you are correct about one thing. I don’t understand the justice of God.
David screws up and God kills his son. David screws up again and God kills a bunch of his people. That will teach David, a man after God’s own heart.

I think that it is the blind, unquestioned acceptance of the bible cruelty that contributes to enabling evil to go into the world.

What most Christians do not understand is that any God capable of creating the mind boggling expanse and complexity of earth, let alone of the universe, could not give a fig leaf about whether one tiny part of His creation rested on Saturday or Sunday, or roasted pigeons on Monday for Him. You put all of your faith in a book that was written by superstitious tribesmen, and voted on by a bunch of men that were ordered to come up with the book under penalty of their kings whim..

So it does not matter if I believe in God, the same God that you believe in. I am a heathen if I do not believe some of the lies told about Him in the bible.
Most of the Christian religion is not about God, it is about the bible. Many do not love God as much as they love the bible.

Tim

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Gene @ Feb. 26 2009,11:44)

Tim……..Around 20 yrs ago i had come to the same conclusions you are experiencing, I had read where God did all this horrible things to the Children of Israel and I couldn't reconcile it with the GOD of Love we read about. I even got a real bad attitude and  began resented Him for being so cruel, He calls people and then Kills them and Make them even eat their own children , Hardly a God of Love i throught, I mean what could they have done to warrant such Evil. So GOD taught me a lesson , Now i had a son who I gave everything to and ask very little of Him, and one day I wanted Him to mow the Lawn, He was in High School and Was filling up His pick truck  I brought Him with gas, and I ask Him to mow the lawn , He Just neglected me and Jumped into the truck and drove of, I became so angry at him, So I jumped on the mower and began mowing the laws I was extremely angry and was cursing Him and saying how unappreciative He was for all the things i have done for Him , I was real angry, and driving around Mowing and cursing Him and suddenly this Voice said to me why are you so upset gene and I said because my son does not appreciate all the thing i do for him, and He said and what do you think Israel did to Me, they even said that Pagan gods gave them the things i gave them they spurned me and insulted me and gave credit for what i did to others, they did not applicate me or anything i did for them, So how is it over this little thing you are angry, and did I not have every right to do to them what i did. And right there Tim my feelings toward GOD changed Back to where they were before . I realized He had every right to do to them what He did. GOD Has feelings to Brother and can become angry also, Israel hert His heart and He struck them for it. He had every right to do what he did brother. What helps is to look at what all God really did for them and what they did to him in return. IMO love and peace to you and yours……………………….gene

Hi Gene,
Thank you for reaching out with your personal testimony brother.

It is evident that you care for your brothers and sisters.

Tim

[TimothyVI]

Hi Kerwin,
I know that you were not being judgemental.
You are a person with a kind heart. I just can not agree with some of the Christian dogma
about what all mankind deserves merely becasue they were born exactly as God made them.

Tim

[dirtyknections]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 26 2009,23:34)

Well there you have it. Now I must be a heathen according to Nick, and all I, and all humanity,  justly deserves is death according to kerwin, all because we are exactly as God made us. Kerwin, you are correct about one thing. I don’t understand the justice of God. David screws up and God kills his son. David screws up again and God kills a bunch of his people. That will teach David, a man after God’s own heart. I think that it is the blind, unquestioned acceptance of the bible cruelty that contributes to enabling evil to go into the world. What most Christians do not understand is that any God capable of creating the mind boggling expanse and complexity of earth, let alone of the universe, could not give a fig leaf about whether one tiny part of His creation rested on Saturday or Sunday, or roasted pigeons on Monday for Him. You put all of your faith in a book that was written by superstitious tribesmen, and voted on by a bunch of men that were ordered to come up with the book under penalty of their kings whim.. So it does not matter if I believe in God, the same God that you believe in. I am a heathen if I do not believe some of the lies told about Him in the bible. Most of the Christian religion is not about God, it is about the bible. Many do not love God as much as they love the bible. Tim

TRUTH

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim4,
Should we come to you to learn of God then?

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2009,05:26)

Hi Tim4, Should we come to you to learn of God then?

No Nick,
You should believe God.
You instead chose believe what somebody else says that claims to have seen and heard Him.

Is second hand information so reliable?

Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim4,
God speaks through the Bible.
But you are greater than that revelation?

[Author]

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