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GB,
Did you think those who were pricked were manifesting the Spirit of God?God does not live in those yet to repent. Pater was showing them the way of Christ.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 06 2008,18:56) the HOLY SPIRIT was poured out on the people, they became convicted of their error TRUE Repentance is given by God, it is not a self work but a work of God . No one truly repents on their own they may have worldly sorrow , but that is not Godly Sorrow. imo
Hi GB-I believe you are confusing YHWH's ability to convict as “forced repentance.” It is true that His Spirit convicts us and that leads us to repentance. Notice the word “lead.” We are led there, and in that place we make the choice. Plenty of people have been convicted without repenting. The difference between “Godly sorrow” and “worldly sorrow” is the desire to change out of love.
“Worldly sorrow” is “I got caught. I sure feel bad and I regret the fact that I have a consequence for this. But I have no intention of changing my behavior”
“Godly sorrow” : “I have sinned against you. I have dishonored you and hurt your heart. I repent. I am not going back. Please forgive me.”
Examples of being led to repentance:
Rom 2:4
God's kindness leads you toward repentance
NIV2 Cor 7:9-10
9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance . For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
NIV2 Peter 3:9
He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance .
NIVYou have to come to repentance. That means you are doing it. If He made us do it, He would not have to be patient with us. He does not want anyone to perish, but that does not mean that no one does. Love is a choice. He wants a bride that loves Him. He will not make her do so.
Acts 20:21
21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
NIVWho does the turning? The people.
He is faithful and kind and loving, so He will convict us. He will poke and prod at us and lead us to repentance. He draws our hearts. Without this, we would not be in the Kingdom. However, the “drawing” must not be confused with the decision that we make. Like I said before, repentance is all about love. You can't do the right thing just for the sake of doing the right thing. Eventually, your heart will go after what you really desire. Sin is pleasurable. It has to be. You turn from it because you fall in love with YHWH and His ways and you see it for what it really is and you see how it hurts the heart of your Father in Heaven. You choose to love Him over the darkness of sin. If you did not have to choose, it would not be love.
Quote (Shania @ Dec. 07 2008,09:07) Plenty of people have been convicted without repenting.
Hi GB.I thought you might have trouble with this statement. Here's a scriptural example:
Acts 5:33
33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart , and took counsel to slay them.
KJVActs 7:54-55
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart , and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
KJVActs 2:37
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
NIVEach time these people were “cut to the heart” What does the word of God do again?
Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
NIVIt cuts your heart and exposes exactly where you are at. You either love this or hate it. The gospel brings division. When someone hears the true gospel, they either love it or hate it. There is no indifference. The term “Holy” means “set apart” We are to be set apart from the rest of the world. This brings division.
Anyway, what I was trying to say is that in all these instances, people heard the gospel and were convicted. If their hearts were evil, they were angry that they were exposed to the point of wanting to kill. If their hearts were humble, they recognized their sin and wanted to change and came into the kingdom.
Quote (Shania @ Dec. 05 2008,22:07) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 06 2008,18:56) the HOLY SPIRIT was poured out on the people, they became convicted of their error TRUE Repentance is given by God, it is not a self work but a work of God . No one truly repents on their own they may have worldly sorrow , but that is not Godly Sorrow. imo
Hi GB-I believe you are confusing YHWH's ability to convict as “forced repentance.” It is true that His Spirit convicts us and that leads us to repentance. Notice the word “lead.” We are led there, and in that place we make the choice. Plenty of people have been convicted without repenting. The difference between “Godly sorrow” and “worldly sorrow” is the desire to change out of love.
“Worldly sorrow” is “I got caught. I sure feel bad and I regret the fact that I have a consequence for this. But I have no intention of changing my behavior”
“Godly sorrow” : “I have sinned against you. I have dishonored you and hurt your heart. I repent. I am not going back. Please forgive me.”
Examples of being led to repentance:
Rom 2:4
God's kindness leads you toward repentance
NIV2 Cor 7:9-10
9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance . For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
NIV2 Peter 3:9
He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance .
NIVYou have to come to repentance. That means you are doing it. If He made us do it, He would not have to be patient with us. He does not want anyone to perish, but that does not mean that no one does. Love is a choice. He wants a bride that loves Him. He will not make her do so.
Acts 20:21
21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
NIVWho does the turning? The people.
He is faithful and kind and loving, so He will convict us. He will poke and prod at us and lead us to repentance. He draws our hearts. Without this, we would not be in the Kingdom. However, the “drawing” must not be confused with the decision that we make. Like I said before, repentance is all about love. You can't do the right thing just for the sake of doing the right thing. Eventually, your heart will go after what you really desire. Sin is pleasurable. It has to be. You turn from it because you fall in love with YHWH and His ways and you see it for what it really is and you see how it hurts the heart of your Father in Heaven. You choose to love Him over the darkness of sin. If you did not have to choose, it would not be love.
I think several people on this forum not only underestimate God's abilities, but they think to highly of the human race.We are like rats in a lab.
DON'T UNDERESTIMATE OUR ABILITY TO BE INFLUENCED.
We are highly manipulated creatures, it just takes time.
God CAN shine light on any form of darkness, and so therefore He will!
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 07 2008,09:27) I think several people on this forum not only underestimate God's abilities, but they think to highly of the human race. We are like rats in a lab.
DON'T UNDERESTIMATE OUR ABILITY TO BE INFLUENCED.
We are highly manipulated creatures, it just takes time.
God CAN shine light on any form of darkness, and so therefore He will!
According to this logic, Genesis 3 should've never happened.Hi Jodi,
Should we work from God's abilities to predict His behaviours?
No scripture explains what His plans are and speculation is a vanity.Quote (Shania @ Dec. 05 2008,23:06) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 07 2008,09:27) I think several people on this forum not only underestimate God's abilities, but they think to highly of the human race. We are like rats in a lab.
DON'T UNDERESTIMATE OUR ABILITY TO BE INFLUENCED.
We are highly manipulated creatures, it just takes time.
God CAN shine light on any form of darkness, and so therefore He will!
According to this logic, Genesis 3 should've never happened.
Do you want to explain your comment, I don't think it is correct, thanks.To clarify a bit, my point is, that some of you seem to claim that a person can become so dark that there becomes a point of no return, and I believe you are very incorrect. You underestimate God and his abilities to have influence over HIS created Creatures of whom He can count the hairs on their heads.
God has allowed mankind to move far away from the light to PROVE how weak and vile we can be without Him, DO NOT THINK FOR ONE SECOND THAT GOD CAN NOT TURN MAN BACK!
For most, this will occur in the second resurrection, which is what God had planned from the beginning. So YES Genesis 3 should have happened.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 06 2008,01:33) Hi Jodi,
Should we work from God's abilities to predict His behaviours?
No scripture explains what His plans are and speculation is a vanity.
Nick you speak as if you think that the bible was INTENDED for all people to read, and those not reading it and following it will not see salvation. Is that what you believe?If such were true then our God would have a weak plan, which would not boast well towards His character.
God WILL open the graves SO the REST of mankind can seek Him.
No Speculation and no vanity.
Jodi………right on , Some here think God leaves it up to there Puny misinformed (Selves) to make A 'FREE WILL” choice that can save them, they push “free will” as the way God want us to come to love him, nothing could be further from the truth, God must initiate and preform the saving process or (NO ONE) can be saved. There is (NO) FREE choice involved Salvation is as solid as a Rock, and that Rock is GOD. Jesus said “Upon (THIS) ROCK i will build the Church”, that Rock is the power of GOD to get into the mind and Guide our thoughts.
What peace we have Knowing that our Salvation is in His Hand , not our weak and puny selfs. No one who trusts in themselves to make right choices can have a sound mind. The worst thing a person can do is to trust in themselves to make the right choices, the whole thing about salvation is to come (OUT) of yourself and let your own WILL DIE, and Let God's Mind Guide you and His (WILL) work in YOU and causes you to walk right. Jesus said He could do nothing of (HIMSELF) but the Father in HIM did the WORK.
It has to be the same with US. WE must put our own so-called “free Will' to death and Seek, Ask, Knock, with our whole hearts the (WILL) of the FATHER as Jesus did. And even that takes GOD to bring about in us. All those who trust in There so-called “FREE WILL” Choices are resisting the SPIRIT and have not really died to themselves yet. imo
love to you and yours Jodi……………gene
Hi JOdi,
Really?
Why not quote me rather than imagining my ideas?
The Word has gone out all around the earth yet some will never hear it and find mercy.So graves will open so that men can seek him? What is the reference?
Nick…..again you lack of scriptural understand comes out, Does it not say (ALL) the house of Israel will be saved . Why would God even resurrect any one if He was not going to save them in the first place. You make God out to be a murder of People who never even Heard of the Name Of Jesus Christ, Jesus said He condemned no one , but you seen to take liberty to condemn some to a literal Hell Fire, interesting Jesus did not do that , but you do, wonder who should we believe brother you or Jesus. Who said if your brother sin against you and come and ask for forgiveness 490 times in a DAY we should forgive Him, but some how God doesn't work that way with US, wouldn't that make Him a hypocrite them, tell us to but he doesn't.
Do you resent the Mercy and forgiveness of GOD to Justify yourself and your own lack of compassion and mercy on others. Do you think God should forgive you and Just a few only even though they don't even know what they are doing, their right from their left. You remind me sometimes of Jonah, Read what God said to Him about the People of Nineveh , you would be better of speaking of God's mercy brother , for it is the (GOODNESS) of God that Leads to Repentance. imo
love and peace to you Nick……………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 06 2008,10:37) Jodi………right on , Some here think God leaves it up to there Puny misinformed (Selves) to make A 'FREE WILL” choice that can save them, they push “free will” as the way God want us to come to love him, nothing could be further from the truth, God must initiate and preform the saving process or (NO ONE) can be saved. There is (NO) FREE choice involved Salvation is as solid as a Rock, and that Rock is GOD. Jesus said “Upon (THIS) ROCK i will build the Church”, that Rock is the power of GOD to get into the mind and Guide our thoughts. What peace we have Knowing that our Salvation is in His Hand , not our weak and puny selfs. No one who trusts in themselves to make right choices can have a sound mind. The worst thing a person can do is to trust in themselves to make the right choices, the whole thing about salvation is to come (OUT) of yourself and let your own WILL DIE, and Let God's Mind Guide you and His (WILL) work in YOU and causes you to walk right. Jesus said He could do nothing of (HIMSELF) but the Father in HIM did the WORK.
It has to be the same with US. WE must put our own so-called “free Will' to death and Seek, Ask, Knock, with our whole hearts the (WILL) of the FATHER as Jesus did. And even that takes GOD to bring about in us. All those who trust in There so-called “FREE WILL” Choices are resisting the SPIRIT and have not really died to themselves yet. imo
love to you and yours Jodi……………gene
Very well put Gene, I give an Amen to that!I particularly liked what you said here, “There is (NO) FREE choice involved Salvation is as solid as a Rock, and that Rock is GOD. Jesus said “Upon (THIS) ROCK i will build the Church”, that Rock is the power of GOD to get into the mind and Guide our thoughts.”
The girls are doing great by the way. Molly Sue is now 14 months and her personality is really starting to come out, it is so much fun, she is a very sweet little girl.
Blessings and love to you and your family, Jodi
Quote (Shania @ Dec. 06 2008,17:07) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 06 2008,18:56) the HOLY SPIRIT was poured out on the people, they became convicted of their error TRUE Repentance is given by God, it is not a self work but a work of God . No one truly repents on their own they may have worldly sorrow , but that is not Godly Sorrow. imo
Hi GB-I believe you are confusing YHWH's ability to convict as “forced repentance.” It is true that His Spirit convicts us and that leads us to repentance. Notice the word “lead.” We are led there, and in that place we make the choice. Plenty of people have been convicted without repenting. The difference between “Godly sorrow” and “worldly sorrow” is the desire to change out of love.
“Worldly sorrow” is “I got caught. I sure feel bad and I regret the fact that I have a consequence for this. But I have no intention of changing my behavior”
“Godly sorrow” : “I have sinned against you. I have dishonored you and hurt your heart. I repent. I am not going back. Please forgive me.”
Examples of being led to repentance:
Rom 2:4
God's kindness leads you toward repentance
NIV2 Cor 7:9-10
9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance . For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
NIV2 Peter 3:9
He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance .
NIVYou have to come to repentance. That means you are doing it. If He made us do it, He would not have to be patient with us. He does not want anyone to perish, but that does not mean that no one does. Love is a choice. He wants a bride that loves Him. He will not make her do so.
Acts 20:21
21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
NIVWho does the turning? The people.
He is faithful and kind and loving, so He will convict us. He will poke and prod at us and lead us to repentance. He draws our hearts. Without this, we would not be in the Kingdom. However, the “drawing” must not be confused with the decision that we make. Like I said before, repentance is all about love. You can't do the right thing just for the sake of doing the right thing. Eventually, your heart will go after what you really desire. Sin is pleasurable. It has to be. You turn from it because you fall in love with YHWH and His ways and you see it for what it really is and you see how it hurts the heart of your Father in Heaven. You choose to love Him over the darkness of sin. If you did not have to choose, it would not be love.
Hi Shania:Thanks for your post. You have put this in words that anyone should be able to understand.
God Bless
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 07 2008,06:01) Nick…..again you lack of scriptural understand comes out, Does it not say (ALL) the house of Israel will be saved . Why would God even resurrect any one if He was not going to save them in the first place. You make God out to be a murder of People who never even Heard of the Name Of Jesus Christ, Jesus said He condemned no one , but you seen to take liberty to condemn some to a literal Hell Fire, interesting Jesus did not do that , but you do, wonder who should we believe brother you or Jesus. Who said if your brother sin against you and come and ask for forgiveness 490 times in a DAY we should forgive Him, but some how God doesn't work that way with US, wouldn't that make Him a hypocrite them, tell us to but he doesn't. Do you resent the Mercy and forgiveness of GOD to Justify yourself and your own lack of compassion and mercy on others. Do you think God should forgive you and Just a few only even though they don't even know what they are doing, their right from their left. You remind me sometimes of Jonah, Read what God said to Him about the People of Nineveh , you would be better of speaking of God's mercy brother , for it is the (GOODNESS) of God that Leads to Repentance. imo
love and peace to you Nick……………gene
GB,
Why?
Because it is written.Jn5
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
You should not design god according to your sensibilities.
Neither should you judge our God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 06 2008,10:39) Hi JOdi,
Really?
Why not quote me rather than imagining my ideas?
The Word has gone out all around the earth yet some will never hear it and find mercy.So graves will open so that men can seek him? What is the reference?
Nick, your responses as I have said before are usually quite ambiguous, so I am left to ask you what you think through stating what I think you might. Maybe if you were more clear I wouldn't have to post to you in such a manner.We clearly do not worship the same God.
Nick I would like to know where is your reference to this statement, “The Word has gone out all around the earth yet some will never hear it and find mercy.”
Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.' “
Notice Nick the dead will be raised and God IS going to put His Spirit IN them, and when HE does that, they will live because of it.
Acts 15:16 'After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up; 17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the Lord who does all these things.'
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 06 2008,11:09) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 07 2008,06:01) Nick…..again you lack of scriptural understand comes out, Does it not say (ALL) the house of Israel will be saved . Why would God even resurrect any one if He was not going to save them in the first place. You make God out to be a murder of People who never even Heard of the Name Of Jesus Christ, Jesus said He condemned no one , but you seen to take liberty to condemn some to a literal Hell Fire, interesting Jesus did not do that , but you do, wonder who should we believe brother you or Jesus. Who said if your brother sin against you and come and ask for forgiveness 490 times in a DAY we should forgive Him, but some how God doesn't work that way with US, wouldn't that make Him a hypocrite them, tell us to but he doesn't. Do you resent the Mercy and forgiveness of GOD to Justify yourself and your own lack of compassion and mercy on others. Do you think God should forgive you and Just a few only even though they don't even know what they are doing, their right from their left. You remind me sometimes of Jonah, Read what God said to Him about the People of Nineveh , you would be better of speaking of God's mercy brother , for it is the (GOODNESS) of God that Leads to Repentance. imo
love and peace to you Nick……………gene
GB,
Why?
Because it is written.Jn5
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
You should not design god according to your sensibilities.
Neither should you judge our God.
Yes some will be resurrected into having to account for their behavior.Like Gene said you think that God is resurrecting people just to kill them off?
People will be judged so that they can learn the error of their ways and God can then work His Spirit into them.
The wicked will perish, meaning that there will be no more wicked people on the earth. Why is this? Is it because God is going to raise the wicked and then tell them they are wicked and then kill them? I believe not. God being the Almighty He is will be able to place His Spirit into those wicked men and they will turn, thus removing all the wicked people from all the earth.
Jodi,
Folk kill themselves.
It is plain how to be reconciled with God through Jesus.
Those who do not choose such a path risk remaining under His wrath.[Jn3]You are entitled to your own personal beliefs but what is written is a better foundation.
Nick……….Jodi just gave you what is written, but you chose not to believe what is written and Trying to makes it appear we don't and you (OF COURSE) Do. This is what you do when you don't have a Scriptural answer to what posted, you play your believe scripture card or say it is better if we believe what Jesus said, this is your way of self elevation in a debate, It's only shows as Jodi said your ambiguity in denying subject matter and changing focus of the debate., You need to produce proof of what you contend of Just not commit at all on the subject.IMO
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 07 2008,06:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 06 2008,11:09) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 07 2008,06:01) Nick…..again you lack of scriptural understand comes out, Does it not say (ALL) the house of Israel will be saved . Why would God even resurrect any one if He was not going to save them in the first place. You make God out to be a murder of People who never even Heard of the Name Of Jesus Christ, Jesus said He condemned no one , but you seen to take liberty to condemn some to a literal Hell Fire, interesting Jesus did not do that , but you do, wonder who should we believe brother you or Jesus. Who said if your brother sin against you and come and ask for forgiveness 490 times in a DAY we should forgive Him, but some how God doesn't work that way with US, wouldn't that make Him a hypocrite them, tell us to but he doesn't. Do you resent the Mercy and forgiveness of GOD to Justify yourself and your own lack of compassion and mercy on others. Do you think God should forgive you and Just a few only even though they don't even know what they are doing, their right from their left. You remind me sometimes of Jonah, Read what God said to Him about the People of Nineveh , you would be better of speaking of God's mercy brother , for it is the (GOODNESS) of God that Leads to Repentance. imo
love and peace to you Nick……………gene
GB,
Why?
Because it is written.Jn5
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
You should not design god according to your sensibilities.
Neither should you judge our God.
Yes some will be resurrected into having to account for their behavior.Like Gene said you think that God is resurrecting people just to kill them off?
People will be judged so that they can learn the error of their ways and God can then work His Spirit into them.
The wicked will perish, meaning that there will be no more wicked people on the earth. Why is this? Is it because God is going to raise the wicked and then tell them they are wicked and then kill them? I believe not. God being the Almighty He is will be able to place His Spirit into those wicked men and they will turn, thus removing all the wicked people from all the earth.
Hi Jodi:This is what the scriptures state:
Quote 2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day
God Bless
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