Joseph, Jesus’ father? Crazy people would believe this!

[Jodi]

Hi LU,

You have not specifically addressed the text I have asked you to address.

Let’s try again and I will incorporate your questioning as well!

Matthew begins with declaring that he is giving THE BOOK OF Jesus’s GENESIS/ORIGIN stating that he is a son of Abraham and David, and then he starts with giving the genetic lineage of Abraham where it goes all the way to Joseph. That in and of itself tells you that Jesus’s biologically the son of Joseph, otherwise you make Matthew into a liar. Matthew doesn’t have to say ” and Joseph begat Jesus”, as he has already clearly stated that he is giving the book of Jesus’s ancestral line that goes directly to Joseph, so that then is a given. He then as said, goes even further using the word GENEA speaking to that book of lineage that includes Joseph and goes to our Christ.

Yes, Mary is mentioned where Joseph is stated to be her husband/bethrothed and Mary birthed Jesus, this does not VOID Matthew’s declaration of who Jesus is said directly to be descended from. A point Matthew is making is that they were already betrothed before she conceived which Matthew reiterates later in the chapter.

As I see it, they would have conceived Jesus the usual way, if it were not for God having promised a SIGN unto the house of David regarding their coming Messiah and king that he would be born of a virgin, where God was able to do so by the power of His Holy Spirit.

The promise was a son from David’s sons, Mary comes from a son of David but she is not a son of David herself but a daughter. The text does not say from David’s sons and one  daughter. My understanding is that inheritance and also rights to the throne of David comes through your father and of course you have to be a son yourself.

[Jodi]

Berean,

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

He who was in the form of God was the anointed Jesus and we are reading what his mind was as the anointed Jesus, not as some pre-existing spirit son. 

Jesus said that that Spirit was upon him an anointing where he was sent out to preach where John tells us that he spoke  the words of God because God had given him the Spirit without measure. That makes the anointed Jesus in the form of God. Jesus says later in John that hearing him is hearing God and seeing him is seeing God, for people to not believe in him but to believe in God, he was doing all of God’s work, that equates to him being in the form of God.

[Berean]

Hi Jodi,

Once again,

Jesus, Son of God, in the nature of God (John 1:1) and in the form of God (Phi.2 :6) came down from HEAVEN (JOHN 6: 38) ON OUR EARTH TO DO THE WILL OF GOD HIS FATHER.
THE SPIRIT OF JESUS WHEN HE DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH IS A SPIRIT OF SACRIFICE AND LOVE OBEDIENCE TO HIS FATHER AND FOR HUMANITY.
HE HAS GONE UP HIS ROLE AS CHIEF ANGELS(Mathew 24:31; Rev.19:14; Rev.12:7)IN THE GLORY OF THE FATHER (made himself of no reputation )
and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

It was when he was made a man and on the day of his baptism when he devoted himself to his mission as the savior of the world that the spirit of God was given to him in great measure.

 

[carmel]

Hi Jodi,

YOU: Carmel,

Go read Genesis 17, Issac is the biological son of Abraham …..

Genesis 1:1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 5Neither shall thy name anymore be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham;

for a father of many nations HAVE I MADE THEE.

6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. 7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. 13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. 15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

16And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

17Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is a hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

18And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

19And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed;

and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

20And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

22And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.23And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham’s house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him. 24And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 25And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 26In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son. 27And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.

Jodi, Above is Genesis 17!

Where and what specifically makes you conclude that Isaac is the biological son of Abraham?

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

 

[Jodi]

Hi Berean,

Thanks for keeping the discussion going!

I will reply to your last post after this one.

Can you specifically speak to the fact that Matthew starts verse 1 with directly telling us that he is giving us the book of Jesus’s genealogy in order to prove exactly how it is that Jesus is thus a bio son of Abraham and a bio son of David?

Much appreciated, thank you!

[Jodi]

Hi Berean,

YOU: THE SPIRIT OF JESUS WHEN HE DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH IS A SPIRIT OF SACRIFICE AND LOVE OBEDIENCE TO HIS FATHER AND FOR HUMANITY.

ME: Could you please elaborate on this though? Where I am really stuck is with people saying on one hand the child born unto Mary given the name Jesus was of Mary and of the Holy Spirit, making him thus God’s son and Mary’s son, but on the other hand they say an already existing son came down from heaven to become a human, so these seem like two different things to me.

The first mirrors pagan gods and especially the second really makes no sense to me, where an existing being becomes a conception in a woman’s womb where that being is then born a human baby.

I have issue with this of course also because the PURPOSE of a virgin birth was for a SIGN unto the house of David involving a descendant of his that would sit on his throne, NOT for the purpose of creating a godman, nor for the purpose of God to change one kind of being into a different kind of being. The PURPOSE WAS FOR THE VIRGIN BIRTH TO BE A SIGN a sign involving a son of David who then God promised He would become a Father to.

Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Paul was asking for Jesus’s disciples, also called his own brethren, to be like minded with the “ANOINTED Jesus”.

Jesus tells you himself WHEN he was anointed and WHEN he was SENT and by whom he was sent, which was God, which also equates EXACTLY to him being thus sent directly down from heaven.

He who was in the form of God was in that form because he was ANOINTED WITH THE SPIRIT WITHOUT MEASURE. Paul was speaking of Jesus AS THE ANOINTED MAN Jesus, not as a pre-existing being. 

[Berean]

Jodi

Jesus was God before he took on our humanity, so says JOHN 1

THIS IS THE FIRST THING TO GET

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness understood it not.
[6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
[7] The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
[8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
[9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that comes into the world.
[10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave him power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[15] John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

[carmel]

Hi Jodi,

YOU: ME: Could you please elaborate on this though? Where I am really stuck is with people saying on one hand

the child born unto Mary given the name Jesus was of Mary and of the Holy Spirit,

making him thus God’s son and Mary’s son, but on the other hand they say

an already existing son came down from heaven to become a human,

so these seem like two different things to me.

ME: Luke1:30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God. 31Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. 32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. 33And of his kingdom there shall be no end. 

34And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done,

because I know not man? 

35And the angel answering, said to her:

The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,

and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee.

And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called

the Son of God. 

Matthew 1:81Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together,

she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost. 

19Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately. 20But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying:

Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife,

for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost.

 

Me: Jodi At this moment I have no time to elaborate on the highlighted of the above scripture, but I would be very pleased IF YOU WERE TO REFLECT DEEPLY ON THEM,  WHILE YOU MAKE SURE THAT ACCORDING TO JESUS, WELL CLEAR HEREUNDER:

John16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,

he will teach you all truth.

For he shall not speak of himself;

but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak;

and the things that are to come, he shall shew you.

14He shall glorify me;

because he shall receive of mine, and shall SHOW IT TO YOU.

15All things whatsoever the Father hath, are mine. Therefore I said,

that he shall receive of mine, and shew it to you.

YOU DEPEND TOTALLY ON THE HOLY SPIRIT REGARDING JESUS TASK,

NOT ON WORLDLY WISDOM!

You: so these seem like two different things to me.

THAT’S RIGHT Jodi,

FIRST AND FOREMOST, KEEP IN MIND PLEASE, THAT WE, CORRUPTED AND MORTALS ARE DISCUSSING

GOD’S MOST HOLY THINGS, 

NOTHING OF THIS WORLD!

THEREFORE BY REFLECTING DEEPLY, IF THE HOLY SPIRIT PLEASES, AND HE WILL HEAR YOU FOR SURE, HE WILL ALSO MAKE IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU SHALL REALIZE THAT THERE ARE NOT JUST TWO DIFFERENT THINGS REGARDING JESUS’REDEMPTION PROCESS;

DEFINITELY DISTINCT IN THE EMBODIMENT OF JESUS THE MAN! 

A DIVINE AND HUMAN TASK PROCESS, 

A SPIRITUAL AND CARNAL PROCESS, AND MOST IMPORTANT 

A GOOD AND EVIL PROCESS!

WHICH COMMENCED ON THIS PLANET ON JESUS’ BIRTH, NEVERTHELESS, DURING HIS MOST HOLY LIFE, INITIATED WHEN JESUS WAS A MERE CHILD OF THIRTEEN, WELL MENTIONED HEREUNDER:

Luke 2:48 And seeing him, they wondered. And his mother said to him: Son, why hast thou done so to us? behold thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. 49And he said to them: How is it that you sought me? did you not know,

that I must be about my father’s business?

 50And they understood not the word that he spoke unto them.

HE IN THE MOST MYSTERIOUS AND HARSH SPIRITUAL BATTLE, PURIFIED ALL IN HIMSELF BEFORE HIS BAPTISM,

CONFIRMED BY JOHN THE BAPTIST HEREUNDER:

John answered them, saying: I baptize with water; but there hath stood one

in the midst of you,

whom you know not. 27The same is he that shall come after me,

who is preferred before me:

the latchet of whose shoe I am not worthy to loose.

Matthew 3:14 But John stayed him, saying:

I ought to be baptized by thee, and comest thou to me?

15And Jesus answering said to him: Suffer it to be so now.

For so it becometh us to fulfill all JUSTICE.

Then he suffered him.

 

AT THE VERY END THOUGH

ON THE CROSS, JESUS, INNOCENT AND THE LORD OF GLORY,

ALL THINGS INTO HIS HANDS GIVEN BY THE FATHER,

John13:3Knowing that the Father had given him all things into his hands, and that he came from God, and goeth to God;

IMMEDIATELY ON HIS DEATH, INTEGRATED ALL  THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF HIS HUMAN/DIVINE TASK ON EARTH INTO ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST,  John13:31-32,

“THE WORD” MADE FLESH ALL BACK TO THE FATHER GLORIFIED Isaiah 55:11 ATTENTION Jodi:

AGAIN

BOTH DIVINE AND MAN,

BOTH SPIRITUAL AND FLESH

BOTH GOOD AND EVIL BUT NOT DISTINCT ANYMORE!

ALL IN JESUS CHRIST RECONCILED FOR THE PLEASURE OF THE FATHER ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD

JESUS CHRIST!

Whether you accept it or not, with every respect it’s your pigeon!

GODMAN!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

 

[Jodi]

Hi Berean,

As you say, the first thing I should get is to understand that John 1 teaches that Jesus was God before he took on our humanity. If that were true and the whole bible gives us truth where scripture is all aligned together to give us a deep understanding, then you should be able to directly speak to and explain how it is that Matthew directly gives us the book of Jesus’s genetic heritage to show he is a bio son of Abraham and David through Joseph.

You should be able to explain it showing how it aligns with your interpretation of John 1.

[Berean]

Hi Jodi

 

…….then you should be able to directly speak to and explain how it is that Matthew directly gives us the book of Jesus’s genetic heritage to show he is a bio son of Abraham and David through Joseph.

You should be able to explain it showing how it aligns with your interpretation of John 1. 

 

Me

I do not deny the human origin of Christ Jesus, BUT JESUS IS NOT ONLY HUMAN, HE IS ALSO DIVINE; AND THIS STATE OF FACTS (WHETHER IT IS DIVINE) IS ABSOLUTELY PRIMORDIAL TO UNDERSTAND AND TO ACCEPT.

 

[Jodi]

Hi Berean,

You still have not specifically addressed Matthew and the book of Jesus’s genealogy that he gives us. I will keep waiting patiently.

[Jodi]

Hi Berean,

You and many others do well at believing in something completely nonsensical. A godman, as Carmel calls it, is not a human being at all, it would be it’s own kind of being. 

One of Mary’s eggs (23 chromosomes) was fertilized with 23 chromosomes from Joseph, easy task by the power of God’s Holy Spirit and if this is not true then Matthew is a liar as well as all bible book writers who speak to Jesus as being a human being.

If scripture calls Jesus a human and you say that he is a human, is it foolishness for you to contemplate how that could be exactly? If Mary’s egg was fertilized but not by 23 human chromosomes how would that which was conceived be a human, be a human embryo to grow into a human fetus? Or was Mary’s egg not even involved?

Please tell me more about an already existing being, a god, descending into a uterus to later be born an actual human baby. You are redefining what it is according to God to be human, is what you are doing. Jesus is a human period, if he were additionally any other kind of being, he would be called something else entirely. 

GOD BECAME A BABY, that is absolutely absurd on many levels.

The virgin birth was FOR A SIGN unto the house of David regarding a son of David being a savior and an eternal king. Jesus said he could do nothing of himself.

Matthew directly shows us that Jesus is the bio son of Abraham and David through being the bio son of Joseph.  Jesus said he could do nothing of himself.

God’s promise was that He would be a Father unto a son of David who would come from David’s sons. Jesus could do nothing of himself.

God’s promise was that He would make a son of David into His firstborn and he would be higher than all the kings. Jesus could do nothing of himself.

To say that the purpose of the virgin birth was for God to send a son into a uterus is directly against God’s word, His purpose. 

We are partakers of the DIVINE NATURE as Jesus is. We are joint heirs with him being heirs of God. The Spirit of God is to come and dwell in us to the cause of righteousness. That is our inheritance unto eternal life and such is being born of the Spirit and by such we are taking on the divine nature and are made into the image of the Son that he might be a firstborn of many brethren.

[carmel]

Hi Gene,

You: Our argument is not about Jesus just coming in the flesh,

it is about he never preexist as “anything” else,   before his birth on this earth.

 

 

Me: You can do as you like Gene, you HAVE YOUR OWN FREE WILL, but that does not mean that YOU ARE RIGHT WITH RESPECT TO THE SCRIPTURES.

To start with:

 If Jesus came in the flesh,

FROM WHERE DID HE COME?

Now read scriptures hereunder:

John 13:3Knowing that the Father had given him all things into his hands,

and that he came from God, and goeth to God; 

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because you have loved me, and have believed that

I came out from God. 

28I came forth from the Father,

and am come into the world: again I leave the world, and I go to the Father.

Ephesians 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it,

but because he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 

10He that descended is the same also that ascended above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.

Rev.13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb

slain from the foundation of the world.

The above Gene, are only a handful that emphatically declares Jesus’ pre-existence, now read the last one from Paul.

Galatians 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God,

even as Christ Jesus.

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[Berean]

Jodi

Your big problem is that you don’t believe in the omnipotence of God. Yes, EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE FOR GOD… HE MADE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON DRESS OUR HUMAN NATURE FOR ETERNITY.(But made himself of no reputation, and TOOK UPON HIM the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:)

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.(1Tim.3:16)

Isaiah 9:6
For a child is born to us, a son is given to us, And dominion will rest on his shoulder; He will be called Admirable, Counsellor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

[Jodi]

Berean,

That is not my problem at all. I most certainly do believe in an OMNIPOTENCE GOD!

God is the one who created human beings and established HOW human beings are created. This is a TRUTH FROM God to which I don’t deny or pretend that I am ignorant of.  When we are told by God that Jesus is a human being I believe it according to God’s very own TRUTH.

Once AGAIN you refuse to directly speak to the truth of God given to us by Matthew, where we are given the BOOK of Jesus’s genetic heritage that declares Jesus to be a bio son of Abraham and a bio son of David through Joseph. This aligns perfectly with God’s truth of Jesus’s birth by a virgin being FOR A SIGN and not for the purpose of creating a godman. This aligns perfectly with God’s truth of how a human is made in a uterus. God used His omnipotent power to bring forth a human being according to the genetic line of God’s word from Matthew.

[Jodi]

Berean,

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.(1Tim.3:16)

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles… 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Berean, the anointed Jesus of the Spirit was he who upon that anointing was sent by God, thus sent coming from heaven. He had been anointed with the Spirit without measure, also considered God’s Spirit coming to live in him, also considered him being begotten by God, which was a promise fulfilled where a son of David became God’s Son. Such made him in the form of God.  With that Spirit without measure, he was sent out to speak God’s word and do God’s work, do all of God’s will, such made him God manifested in the flesh.

In Isaiah 42 Jesus is a human to whom comes from YHVH’s creation and this human receives glory from YHVH.

Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called wonderful, counsellor, the mighty God (el, god, god like one, mighty one), the everlasting father, the prince of peace.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked…10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Berean, we have a Son of Man begotten of YHVH’s Spirit who governs and brings peace to earth through the Spirit of YHVH that is living in him. To say otherwise is to make Jesus into a false image and is to speak against the Spirit of YHVH.

[Berean]

Jodi

JESUS IS NOT A SON OF GOD

BUT

THE SON OF GOD  

JESUS IS NOT A SON OF MAN

BUT

THE SON OF MAN

 

[Jodi]

Berean,

Jesus is a son of David, that makes him a son of man.

He is THE specific son of David OF God’s promises, which makes him The Son of Man to whom those prophecies are fulfilled in.

Jesus is THE specific son of David to whom God promised He would be a Father to, one who God would not take His mercy away from and one who God would settle him into His house and give him an eternal throne. That makes Jesus The Son of God to whom the prophecy was fulfilled in.  Jesus is also the firstborn of many brethren, where Jesus tells us that his Father is our Father, that makes him a Son of God out of many Sons of God. 🙂

[Lightenup]

Hi Jodi,

So the answer to my question “Where does Matt 1 say that Joseph begat Jesus?” is no where as you have shown here:

Matthew begins with declaring that he is giving THE BOOK OF Jesus’s GENESIS/ORIGIN stating that he is a son of Abraham and David, and then he starts with giving the genetic lineage of Abraham where it goes all the way to Joseph. That in and of itself tells you that Jesus’s biologically the son of Joseph, otherwise you make Matthew into a liar. Matthew doesn’t have to say ” and Joseph begat Jesus”, as he has already clearly stated that he is giving the book of Jesus’s ancestral line that goes directly to Joseph, so that then is a given. He then as said, goes even further using the word GENEA speaking to that book of lineage that includes Joseph and goes to our Christ.

Yes, Mary is mentioned where Joseph is stated to be her husband/bethrothed and Mary birthed Jesus, this does not VOID Matthew’s declaration of who Jesus is said directly to be descended from. A point Matthew is making is that they were already betrothed before she conceived which Matthew reiterates later in the chapter.

As I see it, they would have conceived Jesus the usual way, if it were not for God having promised a SIGN unto the house of David regarding their coming Messiah and king that he would be born of a virgin, where God was able to do so by the power of His Holy Spirit.

The promise was a son from David’s sons, Mary comes from a son of David but she is not a son of David herself but a daughter. The text does not say from David’s sons and one  daughter. My understanding is that inheritance and also rights to the throne of David comes through your father and of course you have to be a son yourself.

Jodi, I’m looking into this. Please show me the passage that clearly says that “the promise was a son from David’s sons.” All I see is that the promised son is a descendant of David’s. In other words, the promise was a son from David’s descendants, the fruit of his loins which certainly applies to Mary who is a descendant of David.

Psalm 132:11 The LORD has sworn to David A truth from which He will not turn back: “Of the fruit of your body I will set upon your throne.

Acts 2:30 being therefore a prophet and knowing that God swore to him with an oath to set out of the fruit of his loins upon his throne.

2 Samuel 7:12 And when your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom.

Btw, an adoptive son receives inheritance from the father who adopts him. Jesus is the Son of David in multiple ways…through the fruit of David’s body who is Mary as well as through the adoption by Mary’s husband who is also a descendant of David.

Thanks, LU

 

 

[Berean]

Hi Jodi

JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD LONG BEFORE COME TO EARTH:

👇
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and WHAT IS SON’S NAME, if thou canst tell?(Pro.30:4).

Jodi,  It is not WRITTEN: WHAT WILL BE THE NAME OF HIS SON, BUT WHAT IS THE NAME OF HIS SON…. 

🙏

[Author]

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