- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 27 2010,03:23) Mike ……….Here is on for you………..Luke 1:35…> reading from Young's literial translation….> and the messenger answering said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the Power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten (THING) shall (future tense) be called Son of GOD.
Hi Gene,Why do you think the angel said that to Mary? Are we not ALL “sons of God”? What was special about Jesus even before he was born that it should be pointed out by the angel that he specifically “shall be called Son of God”?
Do you think the angel would say the same thing about any of us? Or was Jesus different from any other human being right from the start?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 30 2010,13:17) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 27 2010,03:23) Mike ……….Here is on for you………..Luke 1:35…> reading from Young's literial translation….> and the messenger answering said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the Power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten (THING) shall (future tense) be called Son of GOD.
Hi Gene,Why do you think the angel said that to Mary? Are we not ALL “sons of God”? What was special about Jesus even before he was born that it should be pointed out by the angel that he specifically “shall be called Son of God”?
Do you think the angel would say the same thing about any of us? Or was Jesus different from any other human being right from the start?
mike
Mike ……….Absolutely if that was GOD'S Plan and Will for any of Us > Mike can't you begin to see you are separating Jesus likeness from us by always trying to make him different then us , This (IS) the Spirit (intellect) of the Antichrists. It pushes Jesus away from our identity. I know you can come to understand this, Think about it Brother>peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Mike………….Forgot to mention it on the other post, but notice it says “he (SHALL) be Called (future tense) the Son of GOD”, now if he were already a son of GOD, why would the angel say he (SHALL BE) CALLED THAT. Also mike notice it say nothing about a Being being Morphed into Mary, but what does it say the Holy Spirit will come upon Her and that (THING) in her. Now a why would he call it a THING if it were a preexisting Being of some kind. Seem the messenger did not know of a preexisting anything right?.
peace and love……………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 30 2010,14:23) Mike ……….Absolutely if that was GOD'S Plan and Will for any of Us > Mike can't you begin to see you are separating Jesus likeness from us by always trying to make him different then us , This (IS) the Spirit (intellect) of the Antichrists. It pushes Jesus away from our identity. I know you can come to understand this, Think about it Brother>
It is not my wishes Gene, but the scriptures that clearly explain that Jesus was different than any of us from even before his conception as a human being.It is YOU, not I, that goes against what scripture teaches to justify your own selfish wishes for Jesus to be exactly like us.
I've already told you that to me, it would make no difference whatsoever how I followed Jesus if he did or didn't pre-exist. I am only following what scripture teaches Gene.
mike
Mike ……….why would God create a whole Human race and then set out to save them by a Preexisting angel or lesser God. And why pass him of as a human being, if he (TRULY) was not, and why would he go around saying he is son of man over and over and over. John said plainly if we say Jesus came not in the flesh it would mean you were Antichrist in fact he repeated it three times (translators) removed and replace it with something else. But the fact is you and other preexistences do not (really) see Jesus as a human being, but as something different from us, you think you and us are not His equal in any sense. So then you have created a rift between Jesus and Yourself that is obvious, Jesus is not (really) like you He is more like a demigod or supper angel of some kind. This is what John was fighting with the Gnostic's of his day. They said Jesus came from the pelora the place of the GODS and He only appeared as a Human but in reality was sent from GOD. The same thing Trinitarians and Preexistences are saying. The just could not accept the fact that Jesus was a Human Being of Flesh and Blood origins. God is saving mankind not some preexistent eternal living being that lived in the past.
Genesis say (from) the seed of the women, not a preexisting being would come the one who would smash the head of the serpent.
peace and love………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 30 2010,15:20) John said plainly if we say Jesus came not in the flesh it would mean you were Antichrist in fact he repeated it three times (translators) removed and replace it with something else.
Just look at what you wrote Gene. Jesus CAME in the flesh. John didn't say Jesus had his BEGINNING in the flesh. HE CAME IN THE FLESH. CAME from where, do you suppose?mike
Mike………..Yes He came into existence in the flesh. Not that he came from some distant planet or somewhere else. That is what the Gnostic's taught who John was addressing at the time. They were a sect that did not believe Jesus was just a human being and were denying his Human origins. They like preexistences were separating Jesus' likeness from Ourselves. Making Him a different kind of person then us, they were the ones who fostered the Antichrist spirit and it still exists to this day.
peace and love……………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 30 2010,15:43) Mike………..Yes He came into existence in the flesh. Not that he came from some distant planet or somewhere else.
First Gene, I don't believe it says, “came INTO EXISTENCE in the flesh”, does it? Don't add words.Second, don't try to divert with talk of Gnostics and trinitarians. We are dealing with what scripture actually says here, right? So answer the question:
John says Jesus “came” or “has come” in the flesh. Where do you suppose Jesus came FROM?
mike
STEO RIGHT UP EVERYONE. COME SEE THE SOID SHOW OF MIKE. HE'S MORE FUN THEN A BARREL FULL OF MONKEYS. LOL
Mike when they cannot answer a simple question , then they take up with trying to belittle you, have you noticed that? Gene has no clue what He is talking about. All is INTERLECT TO HIM… A bunch of nonsense….. You can't make them understand, when you blind you just can't see……I wonder who the monkeys are here…..But that is nothing new under the sun, you have been called that before…….. Peace Irene
Quote (Baker @ Aug. 31 2010,01:50) Mike when they cannot answer a simple question , then they take up with trying to belittle you, have you noticed that? Gene has no clue what He is talking about. All is INTERLECT TO HIM… A bunch of nonsense….. You can't make them understand, when you blind you just can't see……I wonder who the monkeys are here…..But that is nothing new under the sun, you have been called that before…….. Peace Irene
Hi Irene,This is the part of HN that irritates me the most. Not the insults, for I couldn't care less. But the refusal to answer the DIRECT points that people make.
Gene is similar to Keith and Jack in this respect. They have their standard “proof texts” down pat and keep repeating them. But when you try to corner them with a scriptural rebuttal of what they claim, they run away or say, “I already answered that” (when they didn't). At any rate, the result is the same: they avoid the scripture or logic that refutes what they claim just to claim the same thing on other threads over and over.
I really wish t8 would employ that “Serious students only” forum he posted the poll about a while back. It sounded promising and would force people to actually answer questions even if the answer is “I don't know”.
For example, Gene keeps saying that God ALONE created everything, so Jesus had no part in it. And I keep telling him that many people were in existence when God said that, and while those people surely owed their very existence to God ALONE, He made them THROUGH their ancestors and parents, just like He made the heavens and the earth THROUGH His Son.
Anyway, that's when he runs just to claim the same exact thing later on. It's frustrating to me.
Thanks for all your support, Irene.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (martian @ Aug. 31 2010,01:13) STEO RIGHT UP EVERYONE. COME SEE THE SOID SHOW OF MIKE. HE'S MORE FUN THEN A BARREL FULL OF MONKEYS. LOL
I see you're bored with John 8:38, Martian. Are you ready for another one?It's coming. But first, why don't you come see me in the Col 1:15-16 thread. We have to iron out whether the last part of 16 says all things came to be “by” or “through” Jesus.
mike
MIke…………False Post, I use scripture that shows (CLEARLY) GOD (ALONE AND BY HIMSELF CREATED EVERYTHING> Which yopu or no one else seems to be able to contradict or prove wrong, You use scripture that contradicts this . Then you proceed to say i did not answer the questions. Then when you are cornered by saying everything was created (BY) Jesus you again change scripture to say through Jesus, So is it (through, by, or for) or all three word work, take you pick right. So what you yourself are doing you are accusing me and other of doing. Why don't you just go on and say Jesus is a GOD like the rest of the Trinitarians and preexistences do, why stand in middle ground Mike.
Peace and love……………………………….gene
Mike ……….While i am at it here, why didn't any of you answer martian's very good presentation on why would God do it that way and what or how does believing Jesus preexisted benefit anyone in there walk with GOD and Him. Not so much as One answer from any of you , no wounder he gets frustrated with you all,as many who were here have. This ignorant chatter produces (NO) Growth in God or Jesus IMO. You ask for serious constraints but you fail to use them youself. martian gave us some rules that would produce growth , but who here followed them? IMO
Peace and love…………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 01 2010,11:05) MIke…………False Post, I use scripture that shows (CLEARLY) GOD (ALONE AND BY HIMSELF CREATED EVERYTHING> Which yopu or no one else seems to be able to contradict or prove wrong, You use scripture that contradicts this . Then you proceed to say i did not answer the questions.
Hi Gene,Enough of the endless chatter. Scripture vs scripture, okay?
Scripture says God alone created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, right?
Please answer this ONE SIMPLE QUESTION I'VE BEEN ASKING.
When God said this, there were many people alive on the earth, did God create any of them THROUGH other sources, such as their parents?
YES or NO GENE!
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 01 2010,11:05) Then when you are cornered by saying everything was created (BY) Jesus you again change scripture to say through Jesus, So is it (through, by, or for) or all three word work, take you pick right.
Gene,In the last part of Col 1:16, it says TWO words. They can't both be translated as “for”, can they? So ONE of them HAS TO BE either “by” or “through”, right?
YES OR NO GENE.
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 01 2010,11:05) Why don't you just go on and say Jesus is a GOD like the rest of the Trinitarians and preexistences do, why stand in middle ground Mike.
Gene,In this case, the “middle ground” is the scriptural ground. On one side of me, there's people claiming Jesus is God Almighty Himself, which isn't scriptural.
On the other side of me, there's people claiming “the only begotten god” was never anything more than a human being exactly like the rest of us. This isn't scriptural either.
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 01 2010,11:14) Mike ……….While i am at it here, why didn't any of you answer martian's very good presentation on why would God do it that way and what or how does believing Jesus preexisted benefit anyone in there walk with GOD and Him. Not so much as One answer from any of you ,
Gene,Do you see the part of your post that I bolded? How on earth could any human be able to truthfully answer those points?
Ours is not to wonder why God did what He did or why He did it in the way He did it. Ours is only to believe what scripture tells us and to try our best to live by that.
That's why I didn't answer Gene…….because questions like that call ONLY for a man's CONJECTURE without any scriptural proof needed.
Why did God make the sky blue instead of yellow? We can all do our best to GUESS, but none of those guesses would amount to a hill of beans, would they?
Scriptures Gene…….not someone's conjecture that “God just wouldn't have done it that way because I FEEL it makes it harder for me to follow Jesus”.
mike
Mike………..But when Scripture is given you contradict them. God said he created everything (alone) AND by (himself), BUT you say no Jesus Created these things. So Don't give us this you go by Scripture only stuff brother, Now you say GOD does things without reason and we can not understand His reasons for things, that there is not logic behind what GOD is Doing, something i totally disagree with. A God who is an all known and all intelligent creator certainly has a plan and a purpose for (ALL) he Does. You are taking the side of blind religion, “Just accept it because it is written, but you don't have to understand it” ,pure hog wash brother. God is a GOD of LOGIC and UNDERSTANDING and he requires nothing less from us.
Martian ask some very profound and right questions and you all failed to answer him, he gave us a set of rules to think about when discussing scriptures. And you and the Rest of the Preexistences simply ignored them and refused to even consider them. Now you are here saying we don't need to understand GOD or His work and reasonings for doing things, Mike You are the one who is in the middles ground and i do agree with you on that , but that may not be as safe a place as you think to be in. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 01 2010,13:17) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 01 2010,11:05) Then when you are cornered by saying everything was created (BY) Jesus you again change scripture to say through Jesus, So is it (through, by, or for) or all three word work, take you pick right.
Gene,In the last part of Col 1:16, it says TWO words. They can't both be translated as “for”, can they? So ONE of them HAS TO BE either “by” or “through”, right?
YES OR NO GENE.
mike
Mike ……..as i have shown you that word can just as easily be translated as (IN) like it is translated that way ion the all the rest of Col 1….> about twenty times , so which on of the choices you (WANT) to Believe they all can”t be right now can they. So we have about twenty time verses ONE, now which one should we believe. Or can we possible think something got screwed up in translating it?. Think about it MIkepeace and love………………….gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
