John 3, Jesus was Born Again

[GeneBalthrop]

Proclaimer…..Rev 22 : 7- 13.   Please deal with who was the one speaking, in those verses , excluding verse 8, because that was John speaking. Please notice if the same person was speaking in 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13.. ,

Also you can see also  in verse 16 that the angel or  “messenger”,  who Jesus sent to testify these thing to the “CHURCHES”, was JOHN, who took what he saw and recorded it and gave it to the Churches?

So as John was a messenger of Jesus, Jesus, was the messenger of God.  Both “Jesus, and John,  are called “messenger” in that whole chapter.  

My main point the word “angel'” used was to imply another person there, was deliberately place there instead of the word “messenger”  it,  was used to try to make people think it was not Jesus who said do not worship him,  but worship God.

That’s the over all point I am tryin to point out.  Now I ask you to go through each verse carefully, and slowly and think about who is the one speaking and see if it is not the very same person speaking in all the verses  except verse 8 , which we I now it was John.

Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

 

[Berean]

 

IN REVELATION 1:1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

HERE JOHN IS NOT SHOWN AS A  MESSENGER BUT A “SERVANt” in greek : “DOULO” see below

IN CHAPTER 22   JESUS CHRIST IS SHOWN AS:

” THE LAMB” (v.3)

“Alpha and Omega”(v.13)

“JESUS”(v.16)

BUT NOT A “MESSENGER”

1   602 [e]
1   Apokalypsis
1   Ἀποκάλυψις
1   [The] revelation
1   N-NFS
2424 [e]
Iēsou
Ἰησοῦ
of Jesus
N-GMS
5547 [e]
Christou
Χριστοῦ  ,
Christ
N-GMS
3739 [e]
hēn
ἣν
which
RelPro-AFS
1325 [e]
edōken
ἔδωκεν
gave
V-AIA-3S
846 [e]
autō
αὐτῷ
Him
PPro-DM3S
3588 [e]
ho
ὁ
–
Art-NMS
2316 [e]
Theos
Θεός  ,
God
N-NMS
1166 [e]
deixai
δεῖξαι
to show
V-ANA
3588 [e]
tois
τοῖς
to the
Art-DMP
1401 [e]
doulois
δούλοις
bond-servants
N-DMP
846 [e]
autou
αὐτοῦ
of Him
PPro-GM3S
3739 [e]
ha
ἃ
what things
RelPro-ANP
1163 [e]
dei
δεῖ
it behooves
V-PIA-3S
1096 [e]
genesthai
γενέσθαι
to take place
V-ANM
1722 [e]
en
ἐν
in
Prep
5034 [e]
tachei
τάχει  .
quickness
N-DNS
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
And
Conj
4591 [e]
esēmanen
ἐσήμανεν  ,
He signified [it]
V-AIA-3S
649 [e]
aposteilas
ἀποστείλας
having sent
V-APA-NMS
1223 [e]
dia
διὰ
through
Prep
3588 [e]
tou
τοῦ
the
Art-GMS
32 [e]
angelou
ἀγγέλου
angel
N-GMS
846 [e]
autou
αὐτοῦ  ,
of Him
PPro-GM3S
3588 [e]
tō
τῷ
to the
Art-DMS
1401 [e]
doulō
δούλῳ
servant
N-DMS
846 [e]
autou
αὐτοῦ  ,
of Him
PPro-GM3S
2491 [e]
Iōannē
Ἰωάννῃ  ,
John

 

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean….,  That was not just talking about what Jesus did, it was saying what God the Father did, God the Father “signified” it , and gave it to his “messenger”  Jesus,  and Jesus gave it to his servant  John, who as a messenger gave it to the Churches.  There is only three people mentioned there  one was God the Father, who gave it to Jesus as his messenger,  who gave it to John, who gave it to the Churches.  Just that simple, there is not a single angelic being mentioned there. 

 . The word angle there, means  “messenger”.  Just as Strongs shows it to be. 

As far as saying Jesus was not a “messenger “,   what do you call a “mediator” between God and men?   Is he not a messenger?  Anyone who knows the scriptures knows Jesus was indeed a true messenger sent to us from God the Father. 

Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

[Berean]

No Gene, you have to examine the text itself; and the text does not say what you say;

Revelation 22:1 Say

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

“me” is John  …… are you OK Gene ?

Now who is “he” ????

Well, chapter 22 follows directly from Chapter 21
OK Gene?
The “he” of verse 1 chap 22 who talked to John, started talking to John in chapter 21 in verse 9
Check please
You will see that it is one of the 7 angels who talked with John

21:9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.

10] And he(the angel) carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

And from verse 11 to 27 we have this wonderful description of the great city of God, the holy Jerusalem and those who will enter it with the conditions.

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean……Your jumping all over the place, bringing in all kinds of different scriptures.   Please stay focused on the scriptures I was talking about, after that If you want to go to other specific scriptures we can do that, but right now I am asking  you and Proclaimer to descuss the specific ones I have listed first Ok? ,

Getting deverted from a “specific” issue is a big problem here, an leads nowhere , so please stay “focused” and let’s get to the bottom of this. 

Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene

 

 

 

 

[Berean]

What I told you proves that there are 4 main persons in what we are studying ….

Tell me what is wrong

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean……. so how was the angel from “his”,  (Johns), “brethern”, and the “prophets, ”  are angels of human “brethern”  are they  also considered to be “prophets”?   Now tell us how are they of or (from) a “human” brethren  ?. 

Here is what Moses Said,  the LORD shall raise up from among your “brethern” a “prophet” like unto me.  Is that not what that messenger said, he was also? 

Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

[Berean]

Nothing to do with the text considered …. You are drowned in your own considerations ….
Tell me at least one thing:
Who is for you the “he” of verse 1 of chapter 22?
thank you
I’m going to bed
10:10 p.m. (in France)

[Ed J]

IN REVELATION 1:1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Hi Berean,

When Gene has got his “Free Will” mind believing something that isn’t true,
no matter how much you captivate or influence his will, he will not change

____________
God bless
Ed J

[GeneBalthrop]

Edj…..proof of the truth is what matters, not our own opinions. You might start to grow if you start caring more about that rather then your own  personal opinions. Learn to really “love the truth” seek it, ask for it, knock,  and it shall be given you. 

Peace and love to you and yous………gene

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean ,  please just deal with the scriptures I ask , you and Proclaimer to deal with first OK. CAN YOU SIMPLY DO THAT? , and good night , by the  way, plesent dreams.

Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

[Berean]

Gene

Answer my question from my last post and I’ll listen to you then …..

For You, WHO IS the “he” of v.1 chap.22?

Thanks you

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean……a messenger of God.  Now answered my question,  if you can.

What messenger did Jesus send to testify those thing he saw in the churches?  Was it not John he gave the Revelation that God the Father gave him, and was it not John who wrote it down and took it to the Churches?

Berean…..it was Jesus himself who gave what God the Father showed him,  to John who gave it to the Churches.

There’s even more things to think about here,  why does it say “things that must “SHORTLY” be done?  That would make sense if you understood John was transported in time , to the day of the LORD, and was speaking from that time period.  But that’s a different subject  we can talk about latter maybe.

Who is speaking in 22:7 ?

Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

 

 

[Jodi]

Good Morning Berean,

YOU: Jesus used his divine power not for himself (to relieve his appetite in the desert, for example) but according to the will of God and for his glory and for the good of mankind.

ME: Jesus used the power of the Spirit that had descended upon him like a dove, where he “left the river Jordan having been FILLED with the Spirit and was then LED by the Spirit into the wilderness”.

As Jesus said, the Spirit of the LORD was upon him, an ANOINTING, where he was SENT TO do God’s work in God’s name.

Jesus of Nazareth was born of the “divine power” when he was around 30 years old at the river Jordan.

 

[Berean]

Gene

You

What messenger did Jesus send to testify those thing he saw in the churches?

ME

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

YOU

Who is speaking in 22:7 ?

In verse 7 it is Christ who speaks

Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

YOU

There’s even more things to think about here,  why does it say “things that must “SHORTLY” be done?  That would make sense if you understood John was transported in time , to the day of the LORD, and was speaking from that time period.  But that’s a different subject  we can talk about latter maybe.

 

ME

Bible do not say ” he was transported” in time

Jesus was in the spirit on the Lord’s day (which is the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week)

REVELATION 1

I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
[11] Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

And John do not say that “he  was speaking from that time period.  “

No, no, no

I know you don’t agree with this, but what I’m telling you is true, I’m not lying, it’s the truth

And I could prove it to you by the grace of God

IN CHAPTER 17  YES JOHN IS CARRIED AWAY IN THE SPIRIT INTO THE WILDERNESS BY ONE OF THE SEVEN ANGEL(Perhaps the same angel of chapters 21 and 22)

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Here John is carried “in spirit” in the time of the judgment of the great whore (corrupt church)

“[1] And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
[2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

It is not the same language as in the first chapter

” I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day,”…

compare with chapter 4

Rev.4
[2] And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Here John is carried in the spirit and he sees the throne of God

In chapter one, John on the Lord’s day, was in the Spirit , he had a vision of the 7 candlesticks and of Jesus in the middle of the 7 candlesticks…which means that Jesus is present in the Spirit in his church all the time until his next coming.

and Jesus told him what to do … etc

We are in the introduction of the book and it is after that the more serious things start.

 

[Proclaimer]

Hi Gene.

You know those verses you wanted me to look at? Well I can’t give you the answer in this instance because free will doesn’t exist and it must be determined for me not to answer your question. If I don’t give you the answer then that is why. Sorry, but there is not much I can do about that because everything is deterministic. I know you will understand.

[Berean]

Jodi

You

Jesus of Nazareth was born of the “divine power” when he was around 30 years old at the river Jordan.

Me

Show me a verse that shows this

Thank’s

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Proclaimer….. “O” it’s  your lack of understanding, thats why you need the Spirit of the truth to guide your mind , into the truth,  but what “captivating” your mind, hence your “will” “NOW”  , IS preventing you from this subject it seems.  So you not as “free” as you assumed you were right? 

I ask for a simple descussion, and you bounce off the walls, like Berean,  about a completely different topic. Bad form Proclaimer. SEEMS YOUR SO CALLED “FREEWILL”  is preventing you from staying focused, perhaps you need to aquire a “more ” focused will, guided by the Spirit of God , yours seems to not be working to well at this moment it seems. 

May the LORD bless you “AND” “KEEP YOU” ,  Your own so-called “freewill”  is not doing to good of a job of that it appears? 

Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean…..OK,  let’s go slow , let’s start with Rev 1:1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which “GOD” gave unto him, (for what perpose?) to show unto “His”  “servants”  . 

So we can see that it was God the Father, that gave it to Jesus, to show unto his servants,  are we ok with that so far?

Side bar…..notice it say this also,  “things that must “SHORTLY”  come to pass; and he sent “AND” “SIGNIFIED” it by his angel / messenger, unto his servant John: who bare record of the word of “God”, and of the testimony of Jesus the Christ., and of the things he saw. 

Did you notice that the Word of God was one thing,  and the testimony of Jesus was another, they were not the same things. ?

Now on to verse 3…..Blessed is he that reads, and they that hear the words of this “prophesy” , and keep those things which are written:  “FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND”. 

Now about the side bar issue,  Berean,  did you notice it said that it must come about “shortly”  and the time is at “Hand” .  

We couldn’t call 2000 years “shortly” nor at ‘Hand” could we?.

Peace and love to you and yours ………..gene

 

[Berean]

Gene

GOD GAVE THE REVELATION ….. TO JESUS….. SIGNIFIED BY HIS ANGEL…. TO HIS SERVANT JOHN…..TO SHOW UNTO HIS SERVANTS(OF THE CHURCHS)

ARE WE OK ?

YES ?

We couldn’t call 2000 years “shortly” nor at ‘Hand” could we?.

2000 YEARS !!!

Peter said

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

read  perhaps 2 Peter 2

See you

 

 

rev.22:20] He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

 

[Author]

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