John 3 Born Again

[Jodi]

Good Morning TC,

YOU:

1 Cor 15:35 (NKJV) But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain (seed)—perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

Read the context please. There are two different seeds in 1 Cor 15:35-38. One of the human spirit and one of the holy spirit.

YOU Again: 2 Cor 5:8 (NKJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

We become saved spirits (mind of the spirit) first.

ME: TC In 1 Corinthians 15 there is NO mention of that which you speak, and in 2 Corinthians 5 as spoken in my last post Paul was meaning exactly what he says in Romans 8, “So then they that are IN the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God DWELL IN you. 

Paul also says in Romans 8 “And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.”

Which is what he also speaks of in 2 Corinthians 5, “2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.”

TC what Paul says is in direct relation to what he says after that you are pulling out of context creating a false doctrine from. DO YOU HAVE any other passage that says man is to desire to live without a body? 

Why DOES PAUL GROAN, why does Paul call himself a wretched man? BECAUSE he finds himself being absent from God, why he calls himself a wretched man, because that which he knows in his mind is good he cannot perform because his body is a slave to sin, it has weak flesh that is tempting him, such is why he desires to be clothed where he will no longer sin and feel shame and be repentant mortifying his own deeds in his weak mortal flesh. 

You don’t even give ANY MIND to what Paul says just after the verse you so badly want to use to prove your doctrine.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

The BAD things that he did was when he was ‘in the flesh” meaning when he was being “carnally minded” meaning being at home in the body, the GOOD things that he did was when God was present in him, when God’s Spirit was dwelling in him.

DID you catch that TC, Paul says “every one may receive the things DONE in his body, whether they be good or bad.” No how can a person do GOOD in his body unless God is PRESENT in him, DWELLING in him?..for as only God is Good. 

TC you are destroying the message and diverting people to a hope that is not biblical, it is a distraction from the TRUE HOPE that Paul teaches, the true hope of which he directly speaks of in that very same passage, to be clothed in a body where he no longer feels shame and is in need of repentance. 

As you say I need to read the context, but it is you that is ignoring the surrounding context.

YOU:If those alive in Christ die in good stead, they are of the kingdom of God NOW

ME: This is not what is said by Paul at all. Paul speaks of those who are in Christ who have died are DEAD until the resurrection. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 is speaking to those in Christ and what it is they can expect to occur. Which is that our resurrection is the same as that of Jesus’s. 

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

TC, Paul does not say, how do those without bodies that are present with the Lord get a new body. Good grief your doctrine could not be more foolish more against the written word.

The dead are raised up to LIFE, given life, AND with what body do they come? Paul tells us, and it is the SAME body Jesus was raised IN GLORY, IN Power that was INCORRUPTIBLE with. 

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every SEED his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

TC, have you EVER thought about the fact that God restores all of the earth when Jesus returns? God subjected the earth to a curse, animals were made wild, beasts that men would fear. We are told in Isaiah,

5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

As Paul’s hope was for the REDEMPTION of his body, all different kinds of flesh that God had made on earth will receive redemption. The curse God placed upon the earth will be lifted, the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD. God designed our flesh our seed FOR GLORY, it is sown in corruption but RAISED incorruptible, sown in weakness but raised in power. The natural body is a body that must serve itself in order to live, it was given instincts to survive, it feared death and lived by fight, freeze, or flee. The spiritual body is of the same flesh but it no longer needs instincts to survive, as it has eternal life, it has been set free from the fear of death and the need to serve the flesh in order to live.

The spiritual body is a body that has been freed from being in a state of survival a state of fear, pain, disease, suffering, a state of being a slave to sin serving the temptation of that weak flesh, it is now a servant of God where no temptation is present, filled with the knowledge of the Lord, able to walk in God’s ways without missing a mark, no more pain, suffering or death. 

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Kangaroojack……..So show us your so-called “truth”. Let’s see it.  Perhaps your still as blind as you were in the past?

Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

[Ed J]

Hi Edj

I watched the video, I’ve seen that one before

Hi Anthony,

No you didn’t, and you are speaking out of ignorance again.

Please watch the video

[Anthony]

Hi Edj

Me: I did watch that video. Did you?
Maybe you should.

I summed everything up about this video, in the first paragraph. The rest was for free.

God bless

 

God bless

[Ed J]

You didn’t watch the video, because what you said is not in there at all

Please watch it, so you will no longer speak out of ignorance

[Truthcomber]

Hi Jodi,
Response to page 7 #846300

You: Jesus was resurrected with a body, and he as the Son of man in that body when he went to sit at God’s right hand. Scripture tells us that the SAME Jesus that ascended into heaven is the same Jesus that will descend from heaven.

Me:
Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Me: I know no scripture that agrees with your lack of understanding. The same Christ with a different body will come back on a cloud.. He had left on a cloud and will return on a cloud.  He left on a cloud. He was not in a glorified state when he left.

Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Me: He will return on a cloud with great power and glory. There is a transition here.

New American Standard Bible
1 Cor 15:45 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving SPIRIT.

Me: Did the apostles expect Christ to become a spirit? He became one spirit with his Father when glorified in heaven with his Father.

Luke 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: HANDLE ME, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

You: In 1 Corinthians 15 there is NO mention of that which you speak, and in 2 Corinthians 5 as spoken in my last post Paul was meaning exactly what he says in Romans 8, “So then they that are IN the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God DWELL IN you.

Me: No, I will show you.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Jodi,
Response to page 7 #846300 continued

 

You: Paul also says in Romans 8 “And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.”
Which is what he also speaks of in 2 Corinthians 5, “2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is FROM HEAVEN: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.”

Me: Let’s look at what redemption means.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G629&t=KJV

Stong’s definition: 629/apolýtrōsis (“redemption, re-purchase”) emphasizes the DISTANCE (“SAFETY-MARGIN”) that results between the rescued person, and what previously enslaved them.
b. to let one go free on receiving the price: Plato, legg. 11, p. 919a.; Polybius 22, 21, 8; (cf.) Diodorus 13, 24), “a releasing effected by payment of ransom; redemption, deliverance, liberation procured by the payment of a ransom”;

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G629&t=KJV
Blue Bible:
Apolytrōsis: from a compound of G575 and G3083 (the act) ransom in full i.e. figuratively RIDDANCE, or (specially) Christian salvation.

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Me: Death in our bodies causes us to sin. Life on the other hand brings righteousness. Death is passed on to all men.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, [epi ho: by which] all have sinned:

Me: Bottom line—we are redeemed from our bodies of death. We receive new bodies reserved in heaven for us. Our old bodies are not redeemed, rather we are redeemed from them. Christ paid the price.

Let us look at Rom 8:3 once again in light of the scriptures presented. Click on the link below. The bottom line has “body” as the definition of 4983. The phase “of the body” is the interpreters’ bias opinion. It could have been just as easily presented as “from the body” which I believe is the right phrase. Thus,

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption [me: FROM] our body.
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/romans/8-23.htm

John 14:2 In my Father’s house (me: Christ’s body) are many mansions(me: our bodies): if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Me: We will be one body with Christ, spiritually and in organization–all at once.  All members are important to the body  ,

[Truthcomber]

Page 7 JUNE 21, 2019 AT 6:15 AM #846280

 

You: 

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
Paul desires to receive his immortal body, as when he is clothed with this body he will not be naked, he will not feel shame, no longer finding himself mortifying the deeds of his body. He doesn’t go from that to tell us at some point though we will not have a body and at that time we will be present from the lord.

Me:

You neglected to show the below verse.
2 Cor 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is FROM HEAVEN:

Me: Christians are in their present body on earth. They desire to be clothed with their body RESERVED IN HEAVEN. Can you not see that these are two different bodies. What is clothed is their souls and minds of the holy spirit.

Phil 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to BE WITH CHRIST which is far better: 24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. 25 And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith; 26 That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.

Me: As plain as day. We are first with Christ in spirit after our deaths.  Paul was saying that he would abide in the flesh for their sakes.  Now is he abiding in sin as you would say.  No, but he would rather be with the Messiah in spirit.

 2 Cor 2:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Paul is speaking here of his body, not his mind and soul. A new body in the image of the old is the last item of complete salvation. Saints souls and spirits are resurrected at the saints’ deaths. Speaking of context, scroll to verse 1.

2Cor 2:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

1 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

Me: Absence means absence from any body (the one we are now in or the one reserved in heaven).

You: Paul desires to receive his immortal body, as when he is clothed with this body he will not be naked, he will not feel shame, no longer finding himself mortifying the deeds of his body. He doesn’t go from that to tell us at some point though we will not have a body and at that time we will be present from the lord.

Me Oh but he does, I just showed it to you. The father is a spirit. So is the Word that became a life giving spirit.  The father did not have a body from eternity.

You: When you are at HOME in your body you are absent from the Lord, this is speaking of when you sin, the bad things that you do in your body means that you are right at home in your body and God is absent from you.

Me: no it doesn’t.  You are spiritualizing the scripture.

2 Cor 2:9 Wherefore we labour, that, WHETHER PRESENT OR ABSENT , we may be accepted of him.

Me: This means whether we are still in our physical bodies or in heaven with the Messiah we are accepted of him, not like you say, at home in the sinful body. This is a bunch of baloney.

You:

Paul says that he is CONFIDENT RATHER to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord, as when you do good that is God’s Spirit working in you being present in you, He is with you. Recall Paul’s words in Romans 7 when he called himself a wretched man. Paul’s message is that whether we are present or absent, doing good or bad, all things we have done will go before Christ in the judgment. Paul teaches if we mortify the deeds of the flesh we shall live, that we will be accepted by Jesus when we see him at the judgment, and if accepted we receive the crown of LIFE with a body that is incorruptible.

Me: No! We can be accepted by the Messiah in our present bodies if we follow the holy spirit. Yes, our body is a burden, but we overcome this burden and be pleasing to God. This is how we develop character and are pleasing to God.

Berean Literal Bible
Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of the One having subjected it, in hope

Rev 6: 9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Me: “Souls” are the hearts and the minds of the saints in heaven—their spirits. It is not their bodies under the altar waiting to be clothed. “white robes” symbolizes the bodies they are to receive. It is in present tense form but pertains to the immediate future.  All recieve their new bodies at the same time, even the Messiah. His present body is at rest.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Jodi,

 

Continued from Page 7 JUNE 21, 2019 AT 6:15 AM #846280

You:

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption (me: from our body).

Me: But read a little further up. We are adopted sons way before the redemption from  our bodies. We groan in ourselves because of the fleshly body we inhabit that leads us to sin. In my prior post, I showed that redeemed means redeemed from our present bodies. It will not change into a spiritual one. It is dead, finished, Kaput. It is crucified never to be activated again. Only Christ’s body was risen from the dead. When we are baptized in the holy spirit, we die and resurrect with him and will have a new body liken unto his.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Me: The body we will receive does not appear to be like the one we occupy presently here on earth but a new one in a glorified state in the image of the old one.

Matt 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Romans 8:12 (NKJV) So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a SPIRIT of ADOPTION as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The SPIRIT Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Me: We are children of God by adoption through the holly spirit, not by having new bodies. Let us review Romans 8:23 so that it fits into the whole context of the scriptures, not just in the context of the chapter. A better translation would be:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/8-23.htm
Romans 8:23 (Greek text) Not only [so] now but even ourselves the firstfruit of the spirit having we also ourselves having IN ourselves groan divine adoption as sons awaiting the redemption of the body of us.

Me: If you pause at the three dots in the above scripture you should see that we are adopted sons BEFORE  we acquire our NEW BODIES which occur after the three dots. We groan AS DIVINE ADOPTED SONS (children) now because of our body death that causes us to sin. We receive eternal life through the spirit and not the body. The body is a crown of those efforts. We await the redemption of our bodies. It causes us grief, but this does not mean that we receive our salvation when we receive new bodies. We welcome new bodies that will not cause us to sin. We receive salvation through the spirit first.

1 Cor 15:34 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain (seed), it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain (me: seed) 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
.
John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his SEED (me: the seed of the holy spirit) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Me: Notice the spirit comes before the body. We receive new bodies of the SEED of the holy spirit, not the seed of our human spirit.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Jodi,

You: You have not reconciled a single thing at all.
You didn’t speak of the scriptures I gave and how they fit with your doctrine, you flat out ignore them. You response is to say I am speaking of gibberish instead of address the scriptures I gave.
You have not reconciled this,
You quoted me: In order for the Messiah to have had fullness of truth in him, he had to have the fullness of the spirit of God in him. The Messiah had the fullness of divinity in him from conception.

This is proven as absolutely FALSE according to direct scripture, Jesus was not in the fullness of the divinity of God until he was anointed with the Holy Ghost and with POWER of which occurred AFTER the baptism which John preached.
Acts 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
TC how can you NOT see that this is an issue with your doctrine, if at his conception he was born in the fullness the divinity of God, then why did he later need to be made CHRIO ANOINTED WITH the Holy Ghost and POWER??????

Me: You fail to see the man in Christ that is separate from the Word or God in him. The seed of David grew in its bond with the holy spirit through the Word or expressed image of God in him. God does not change. The Word who is God (john 1:1-2) did not change in the Messiah’s mind. It was the spirit mind of the Messiah.  But the bond of the human mind to the Word did. And it grew stronger and was anointed with power at Jordan. It was fully bonded with God after John 7:37-39.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly (human heart and soul) shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet ____; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

[Truthcomber]

 

Hi Jodi,

 

You: Hi TC, I have missed it, where is it? you could at least send me to the page.
I don’t think I have ever seen you site Acts 10 and talk directly about it.

Me: Acts 10 has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Jodi,
Response to page 7 #846300 continued

You: Jesus was resurrected with a body, and he as the Son of man in that body when he went to sit at God’s right hand.

Me: First, the flesh of the Messiah was not exactly like ours.

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the SON OF THE HIGHEST (me: Son of God): and the Lord God shall give unto him THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID.

Me: As mentioned before, death is passed on by the male gender.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, (me: ep ho–on the basis of) all have sinned:

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Me: The Messiah is born through the seed of the woman, in this case Mary. The male seed planted in her womb is provided by God. God made Christ a little lower than angels.

1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Me: We become of the second Adam in substance and in spirit. What is passed down from the seed of David is the Messiah’s human heart and soul. This is redeemed. We are redeemed from our bodies of death.

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/psalms/49-8.htm

Psalm 49:8 For the redemption of his soul is precious (3365)…

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Jodi,
Response to page 7 #846300 continued

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_hand_of_God

Quote: “The right hand of God (Dextera Domini “right hand of the Lord” in Latin) or God’s right hand may refer to the Bible and common speech as a metaphor for the omnipotence of God and as a motif in art.  In the Bible, to be at the right side “is to be identified as being in the special place of honor”.[1] In Jesus’ The Sheep and the Goats, the sheep and goats are separated with the sheep on the right hand of God and the goats on the left hand. “

Me: God is spirit and does not have a literal hand.

Quote: “Anthropomorphism is the attribution of human traits, emotions, or intentions to non-human entities.”

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Me: Throne is used metaphorically as a symbol of rulership. The same throne for the father is the throne of the Messiah which is the throne of David which is the thron of the saiants.  d
https://biblehub.com/topical/t/throne.htm

[Jodi]

Hi TC,

ME: Jesus was resurrected with a body, and he as the Son of man in that body when he went to sit at God’s right hand. Scripture tells us that the SAME Jesus that ascended into heaven is the same Jesus that will descend from heaven.

YOU:
Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

I know no scripture that agrees with your lack of understanding. The same Christ with a different body will come back on a cloud.. He had left on a cloud and will return on a cloud.  He left on a cloud. He was not in a glorified state when he left.

ME: The verse says THIS same Jesus, the SAME Jesus that 1 Corinthians 15 tells you EXACTLY what kind of BODY that Jesus was raised with and it is directly told to you THAT BODY WAS OF GLORY, THAT BODY WAS of POWER, that BODY WAS INCORRUPTIBLE.

TC, after Paul tells us what BODY Jesus was raised with, he tells us how God made Adam a living soul (he died), Jesus however though he ALSO DIED, Paul tells us that God made him a living soul again, for God quickened (MADE ALIVE) his spirit AGAIN.

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You have a body, and in that body is your spirit which represents your mind, your knowledge, your thoughts, your character, that which you make decisions and choices from of which equates to the representation of your life/soul.

Do you have a spirit of jealousy or a spirit of understanding, do you have a spirit of hate or one of love in you? Your spirit reflects what kind of SOUL you have, what kind of LIFE you live. When you DIE you have no LIFE/SOUL, your body is dead it is no more animated as your spirit that is in you is dead. 

One is judged by their soul/life, how they lived it, and how they lived is determined by what they did with their body, and what they did with their body was dependent upon their spirit/mind/knowledge/thoughts/character.

JESUS DIED, his life/soul was taken from him, his body and the spirit within was DEAD, God would not allow Jesus’s BODY to see decay, because it was spotless without blemish, and his body was without sin because his spirit/mind within that body followed God without failing, so God RESTORED his life/soul, He quickened Jesus’s spirit and the body therein, making the body incorruptible and the spirit within it eternal. 

Jesus DOES return in great power and glory, the glory and power he was RAISED from the dead with.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man (anthropos/HUMAN) coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

TC, a HUMAN is a particular creature that God had made with a particular kind of flesh, a shark has a particular kind of flesh and a lion is a particular kind of flesh. Just as they are restored in God’s kingdom so are humans. All of the earth is filled with the knowledge of the LORD, no more CURSE, no more flesh devouring flesh, no more being territorial, aggressive, dominant, no more fight, flight or flee to preserve life. God doesn’t have to change the flesh itself of all these creatures that He made, He changes how their flesh FUNCTIONS . For humans their flesh no longer has to eat to receive nutrients so those nutrients can be supplied to the blood to then be carried to our cells to keep our cells alive. Jesus has the same flesh he died with, it however was raised functioning completely different, in an incorruptible manner of power and glory.

In God’s kingdom TC we are not some spirit beings floating around, we are HUMANS dwelling on the earth among other creatures of flesh who also have been restored to God’s intended functioning.

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

 

1 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (me: Liberty from our old bodies). 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are CHANGED INTO THE SAME IMAGE from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

Me: Even if incorruption can be interpreted as the holy spirit or new wine, let us focus on the body. WE ARE CHANGED does not equate to our bodies will change. We receive new bodies.

Luke 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; NO MAN PUTTETH A A PIECE OF NEW GARMENT UPON THE OLD; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old. 37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.

From #846315 page 7 above
Me: Bottom line—we are redeemed from our bodies of death. We receive new bodies reserved in heaven for us. Our old bodies are not redeemed, rather we are redeemed from them. Christ paid the price.
Let us look at Rom 8:3 once again in light of the scriptures presented. Click on the link below. The bottom line has “body” as the definition of 4983. The phase “of the body” is the interpreters’ bias opinion. It could have been just as easily presented as “from the body” which I believe is the right phrase. Thus,

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption [me: FROM] our body.
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/romans/8-23.htm

1 Cor 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, EXCEPT IT DIE.

1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonor; it (5319 APPEARS) in glory: it is sown in weakness; it (me: 5319 APPEARS) in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised (me: 5319 APPEARS) a spiritual body.
4. To raise up, produce, cause to appear;
a. to cause to appear,
5319. phaneroó

Me: What is “IT” in 1 Cor 15:42? It is THE IMAGE OF CHRIST. We put on his image of his flesh 1st and his image of the holy spirit 2nd..

New American Standard Bible
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared (1453) as yet what we will be. 3 We know that when He appears (1453), we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

https://biblehub.com/greek/1453.htm
1453. egeiró
to make visible, make clear
Usage: I make clear (visible, manifest), make known.

[Jodi]

Hi TC,

YOU:Me: Death in our bodies causes us to sin. Life on the other hand brings righteousness. Death is passed on to all men.

ME: This does not make sense, we have life now and that life is not what brings us righteousness, God gives us life and He gives us of the fruits of His Spirit so that we can walk in His ways.

Yes our weak mortal bodies where we fear death and must serve our flesh in order to live, that does cause us to sin.

YOU:Bottom line—we are redeemed from our bodies of death. We receive new bodies reserved in heaven for us. Our old bodies are not redeemed, rather we are redeemed from them. Christ paid the price.

ME: Bottom line- Jesus was RAISED with a BODY of GLORY and POWER that was INCORRUPTIBLE and it was a body of flesh and bones. We are redeemed from our bodies of death by given a body of life, a body of flesh that is incorruptible. That body of flesh is no longer weak in that it no longer dies and has to serve itself in order to live, it lives free from temptation. Jesus has the SAME body, it was not allowed to see decay, how that body functions was changed. Bottom line Jesus is still a HUMAN and a HUMAN is a particular kind of flesh that God had made, He can make a human weak and corruptible and He can make a human powerful and incorruptible. 

 

[Jodi]

HI TC,

ME:Paul says that he is CONFIDENT RATHER to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord, as when you do good that is God’s Spirit working in you being present in you, He is with you. Recall Paul’s words in Romans 7 when he called himself a wretched man. Paul’s message is that whether we are present or absent, doing good or bad, all things we have done will go before Christ in the judgment. Paul teaches if we mortify the deeds of the flesh we shall live, that we will be accepted by Jesus when we see him at the judgment, and if accepted we receive the crown of LIFE with a body that is incorruptible.

YOU: No! We can be accepted by the Messiah in our present bodies if we follow the holy spirit. Yes, our body is a burden, but we overcome this burden and be pleasing to God. This is how we develop character and are pleasing to God.

ME: We are accepted by God through our faith in what He accomplished in the anointed man who God had elected from among his brethren. We are accepted by God if we believe that the Son of God is a perfect HUMAN. If we mortify the deeds of our body and desire to have God direct all of our ways as He had called Jesus to righteousness directly all his ways, we to will obtain the same calling to perfection. Yes we have to overcome burdens that is how God develops our character and strengthens our faith in Him.

So one is to appear in the judgment seat AFTER he has already been made immortal? NO! Like I said Paul is talking about God dwelling in you, He is PRESENT when you walk after the Spirit, when you are not walking after the Spirit God is not present, he is FAR from you. When he is absent and you repent, He returns again and is present with you. So whether God is present or absent when we are in our weak mortal bodies, we labour that we may be accepted of him. 

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

TC sleep is referred to as death for a reason, when you die your next conscious moment is waking up to life again. It is like no time has passed, it is an instant from when you go from your last breath to being given breath again!! Think about that! Jesus is in heaven PREPARING a place for us,

2 In my Father’s house are manymansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.  3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

TC you just are flat out speaking LIES, there is NO putting on immortality for those in Christ until his second coming it is directly written clearly for you. The DEAD are sleeping the sleep of death they are not living without a body having immortality. The Son of Man took a far away journey but he is coming back, no one else has taken that journey, he is on that journey preparing a place for us, only God knows when it is ready. We can’t be somewhere that is not yet ready for us, we can be somewhere when we are said to BE DEAD, ASLEEP. 

Like I said, think about it TC, when you die it is like to you NO TIME has passed between your death and waking up to meet Christ in the clouds. 

As David said, the living know that they will die, the DEAD KNOW NOTHING. 

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

THIS is our comfort, you are drawing people away from the TRUTH speaking lies.

The DEAD in Christ TC rise and go to MEET Christ in the air, this is when they receive their immortality.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Jodi:
Reference post #846337 page 8

 

You quoted me: Death in our bodies causes us to sin. Life on the other hand brings righteousness. Death is passed on to all men.

YOU: This does not make sense, we have life now and that life is not what brings us righteousness, God gives us life and He gives us of the fruits of His Spirit so that we can walk in His ways.

Me: Obviously I am talking about eternal life.

John 1:4 In him was life; and the LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Me: Abundant or spiritual life brings on UNDERSTANDING.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words (light) that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Me: Life of the holy spirit has righteousness in it.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the RIGHTEOUSNESS of one the free gift came upon all men unto JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Me: The holy spirit of life brings us to understand what God expects of us and the faith to listen and obey him.

You:  Bottom line- Jesus was RAISED with a BODY of GLORY and POWER that was INCORRUPTIBLE and it was a body of flesh and bones. We are redeemed from our bodies of death by given a body of life, a body of flesh that is incorruptible.

1 Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

Matt 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Me: shinning as the stars or sun in heaven is not of a flesh body. Neither flesh nor bones, nor blood shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man

Me: Does this mean that Adam and Eve had no blood. How absurd is your flesh and bone theory.

You: That body of flesh is no longer weak in that it no longer dies and has to serve itself in order to live, it lives free from temptation. Jesus has the SAME body, it was not allowed to see decay, how that body functions was changed. Bottom line Jesus is still a HUMAN and a HUMAN is a particular kind of flesh that God had made, He can make a human weak and corruptible and He can make a human powerful and incorruptible.

Me: We become the Sons of God, not remain the sons of man. We remain the sons of man only in the heart.

Ezk 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

[Truthcomber]

Hi Jodi:
Reference post #846339 page 8

You: Paul says that he is CONFIDENT RATHER to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord, as when you do good that is God’s Spirit working in you being present in you,…blah, blah, blah….infinitely.

NO! I have thoroughly explained my position on this to you already 10 trillion times.

[GeneBalthrop]

TC……Problem is you are wrong, in your assumptions,  Jodi is right.

Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

[Author]

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