- This topic has 520 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
Hi Edj
You said to TC:
The first link has God’s name as YHVH,
and the second link has it as YHWH ???How do you account for this discrepancy.
YHWH is the Hebrew translation and YHVH is the Latin translation.
God bless
T8…..You couldn’t be more wrong even if you tried, no where does it say Jesus was the word and then became flesh, AGAIN YOU ARE misrepresenting scriptures, forcing them to meet your teaching of a preexisting Jesus. You seem unable to understand what is meant by the words ,”and the word became flesh” .
For one there is no word that “is” flesh. Words are “spirit” they are not flesh.
Secondly the word mentioned there is “God’s word” , came in the flesh, how? , by fulfilling prophesy. What was prophesied about a flesh born human Son.
Isa 9:6…..“for unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given”:
This scripture has nothing to do with Jesus himself being the word of God himself , Jesus was the fulfillment of God’s word given us by God the Father , through the prophets of old, that word came into existence as the flesh man Jesus.
T8…..What do you think Jesus meant when he said, the words I am telling you are “not” my words , but the words of him who sent me. IF you just understood that, you would know Jesus himself was not the word of God himself. He is called the word of God, because he spoke God the Fathers words to us. But that does not make “Jesus himself“ God’s word himself.
“MYSTERY RELIGION” , preaches Jesus some how preexisted as the word of God along side God as if God and his word were seperate, and not one same being. That’s pure garbage, no scripture shows God and his word not being the same, even when someone quotes God words it’s still God’s words. God and his words are one and the same, just as you and your words are, Jesus and his words are to.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Edj
You said to TC:
The first link has God’s name as YHVH,
and the second link has it as YHWH ???How do you account for this discrepancy.
YHWH is the Hebrew translation and YHVH is the Latin translation.
God bless
Hi Anthony,
There’s a problem with what you say, because
it is the “Hebrew site” that has God’s Name “YHVH”.
How do you account for the discrepancy in what you say?Hi All,
Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/17-20.htmNew American Standard Bible
Luke 17:21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/17-21.htmMe: The Pharisees did not recognize that the kingdom of God consisted of two members at that time.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Me: It consisted of the Father, who is greater than the Son, and his Son.
John 3: 34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
New American Standard Bible
Col 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,Weymouth New Testament
John 1:14 And the Word came in the flesh, and lived for a time in our midst, so that we saw His glory–the glory as of the Father’s only Son, sent from His presence. He was full of grace and TRUTH.
Me: In order for the Messiah to have had fullness of truth in him, he had to have the fullness of the spirit of God in him. The Messiah had the fullness of divinity in him from conception.New American Standard Bible
Matt 11:11 “I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”Me: When the Word came into flesh, he was to be head over all things. This included man. The Word was made a little lower than angels. John the Baptist and we were not. The kingdom of God had consisted of two members when the Messiah was here on earth—the Father and his Son. The son was more than human in the flesh. Consider the phrase, “Those born of woman”. The woman came from man and thus has the chromosomes from the male side. Thus death was passed on to her. But the Messiah did not have a human father. God miraculously provided the chromosomes of the male counterpart of the woman. No, he was not a Nephilim but the nephilim did provide a proof that the angelic or spiritual beings could produce offspring with human woman. The angels that are locked up in the underworld had begotten these nephilim of woman. It was to be counterfeit kingdom of the God. It was a grievous sin in the eyes of God.
The Messiah was to become the SON OF MAN or the (SON OF GOD) of man. SON = SON OF GOD in “Son of God”.
Matt 16:15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am? 16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Me: This is a miraculous revelation. Only those with eyes to see and ears to hear will comprehend this. Those that think the Messiah was just a man are among those included.
Hi All,
Psalm 8:4 (NKJV) What is man that You are mindful of him,
And the son of man that You visit him?
5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels,
And You have crowned him with glory and honor.
6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands;
You have put all things under his feet,Eph 1:22 (NKJV) And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
Me: Verses 4-6 of Psalm 8 pertain to the coming Messiah. Although Eve ate of the forbidden fruit first, the whole creation had been condemned to death because of the first Adam. He is the head of all creation, including his wife. The whole creation is restored to life because of the second Adam. The first creation was under Adam and his descendants. The male gender is the head of the first creation. Death is passed down through the male line.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Me: The head of the first creation is through Adam and then his male descendants.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by ONE MAN sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, (me: eph ho: by which) all have sinned:
1 Cor 15: 20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Me: The human spiritual seed is from David, the physical seed from the chromosomes of his mother.
correction in post #846161
The Messiah was to become the SON OF MAN or the (SON OF GOD) of man. SON = SON OF GOD in “Son of man”.
Hi Edj
You said :There’s a problem with what you say, because
it is the “Hebrew site” that has God’s Name “YHVH”.
How do you account for the discrepancy in what you say?Me: yes Edj it seems that every site and writing has something different to say about the name. YHVH seems to be a earlier writing of the name God in Hebrew. YHWH is a later writing that came about with Moses:
*Yahweh. Yahweh, the god of the Israelites, whose name was revealed to Moses as four Hebrew consonants (YHWH) called the tetragrammaton. After the Babylonian Exile (6th century bce), and especially from the 3rd century bce on, Jews ceased to use the name Yahweh for two reasons.
Britannica.com › topic › Yahweh
Yahweh | Translation, Meaning, & Facts | Britannica.com** For Jewish people YHVH is the most holy name of God, as written in the ancient Hebrew language. The written language showed no vowels, so the pronunciation is not agreed on. However, most academics agree that “Yahweh” is the most accepted way to say it.
Note: These four letters are usually JHWH in German, French and Dutch, and either YHWH, YHVH, JHWH or JHVH in English. In some English language Bibles, it is written in all capital letters as “LORD,” as in Jewish tradition. Others, such as the Jerusalem Bible use “Yahweh”.
The name Jehovah is used by the religious organisation of Jehovah’s Witnesses based on early English Bible translations repeated by the KJV.
Found on Wikipedia.org under Jehovah, at the end of article under notes #9. The Theological Vol. 88, No. 3 (Jul., 1995), p. 318. Quote: “Although most scholars believe “Jehovah” to be a late (c. 1100 CE) hybrid form derived by combining the Latin letters JHVH with the vowels of Adonai (the traditionally pronounced version of יהוה), many magical texts in Semitic and Greek establish an early pronunciation of the divine name as both Yehovahand Yahweh”
The Latin Vulgate of St. Jerome renders the name as Adonai at Exodus 6:3 rather than as Dominus.
I hope that helps, mind boggling. Need to put thinking cap on, very tight.
God bless
Hi All,
1 Cor 15:5 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit (me: mind of the spirit).
2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Me: Christ became a spirit first.
2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Me: We also become spirits first.
Hi All,
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 4:4 There is ONE BODY…
Me: We become one body metaphorically of the spirit body of the Messiah and metaphorically as one church.
1 Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1 Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Me: We together with Christ shall have immortal bodies, a crown of righteousness at the first resurrection.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear (me: 531: made visible), we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Phaneroó (531): to MAKE VISIBLE, make clear
Original Word: φανερόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: phaneroó
Phonetic Spelling: (fan-er-o’-o)
Definition: to make visible, make clear
Usage: I make clear (visible, manifest), make known.Hi All,
Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Me: The Messiah was crowned king of this world at his appearance at the first resurrection. He receives a body of glory.
Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 19:13 And he was CLOTHED (his spirit body of glory) with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, CLOTHED (their new bodies clothed) in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS
Hi Anthony,
From “Why is Jesus called the second Adam if you say he came from Adam???” Page 8, post #846205
You: The conception of Christ. When the Father caused His conception to occur in the womb of Mary (John 1:14), it was not Mary’s physical ovum that was engendered to cause Christ to become “flesh.” Christ became the seed of Mary (the woman of prophecy) by means of a heavenly-created ovum placed in Mary’s womb, which was then impregnated by the Spirit. Everything about Christ’s conception was spiritual and had nothing to do with the uniting of a human sperm with a human ovum.
The ovum impregnated by the Spirit was not from Mary’s ovum. Mary was actually a surrogate mother to Christ Jesus and neither her ovum nor Joseph’s sperm created Him. The fetus that grew in Mary’s womb was NOT a descendant of Adam and Eve (it would have inherited sin), but from a sinless God in heaven.Me: I agree with you. But I would like to expound on this.
Matt 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Me: I believe that the children of Abraham here are of the spirit and not of the flesh. It is of the heart and soul. David’s heart and soul is a variance of this. Christ’s heart and soul is a variance of David’s.
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Me: Apparently, Abraham had two seeds, one of the spirit and one of the flesh.
1 Cor 15::35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
Me: Our physical bodies must perish first. And become like the body of Christ.
1 Cor 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain (seed), it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain (seed).
Luke 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
Me: The dead body bares different seed of the holy spirit with the human heart of Christ in it. It will be in the image of the physical body. We will have a body like Christ’s.
Hi All,
Me: We have two natures in our fleshly minds. One is our innate man or heart (inner man), the other the heart of the devil.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Me: This is the heart of the devil.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man.
Me: We have two natures in our inward man. One is our innate man or heart (inner man), the other the heart of the devil.
We put on the heart of the Messiah in our inner man when we die in good stead with our savior. He is of the nature of David through Abraham. We develop this nature when we bound with God. David and the OT saints acquired this nature of the seed Abraham first and of Christ after the sacrifice and glorification of the Messiah. This was through the baptism of the holy spirit. We die to the devil as we put on Christ.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Ezk 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh (of the humanity of Christ).
Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (gehenna).
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire. Gehenna is metaphorically of this.
Me: Ultimately all will have new bodies and souls in conjunction with the Messiah.
Hi TC
Me : I can agree to that.
One Thing?
You said: The dead body bares different seed of the holy spirit with the human heart of Christ in it. It will be in the image of the physical body. We will have a body like Christ’s.
Me: do you mean, the image of the physical body will look like the physical body , but be Spiritual like Jesus Christ has now?
God bless
TC…..So Jesus was lying when he said over 100 times he “was” a son of man? Interesting Jesus says one thing, you say he was only “LOOKED” like, a “son of man” . So when Jesus says, “when the son comes in the clouds”, at his return, he is lying to us, he only “looks like one” , right? IT’S AMAZING TO ME HOW YOU PEOPLE FLIP AROUND PAIN SCRIPTURES TO MEET YOUR “MYSTERY” RELIGIOUS CONCEPTS.
TC….Jesus is a real human being alway was and always will be., he is the second Adam , perfected by GOD the Father the same c way we must be, when he returns he still will be a human being, a “son of man”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Gene:
You: So Jesus was lying when he said over 100 times he “was” a son of man? Interesting Jesus says one thing, you say he was only “LOOKED” like, a “son of man” . So when Jesus says, “when the son comes in the clouds”, at his return, he is lying to us, he only “looks like one” , right? IT’S AMAZING TO ME HOW YOU PEOPLE FLIP AROUND PAIN SCRIPTURES TO MEET YOUR “MYSTERY” RELIGIOUS CONCEPTS.
Me: No Gene, you are wrong, absolutely wrong. The son of man is of the heart and spirit, not of the body. The glory of God and his Son is of the heart and mind, not of the body. The body is only a reflection of the internal. God is spirit. Spirit is invisible. His glory comes from the mind of the spirit.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Me: The Word was and is an exact copy of the heart and mind of God. Add the human seed (heart and soul) of David and you have the Son of God.
Gene:
Me: His body is now of the reflection of the holy spirit with the human heart and spirit of the seed of David in it.
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire. 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
Me: Doesn’t look like a flesh and bone man to me.
Gene, Have you ever watch ex-presidents, ex-governors, ex-senators, ex-mayors and like being interviewed on the screen. They are still addressed as president, governor, senator, mayor, etc. The similar idea holds true when the resurrected and glorified son of God is referred to as the son of man. This is a sign of respect for the positions they held. That does not mean that they still in their former positions. The same is true for the Messiah. He is a couple of times referred to as the son of man.
Likewise with the messiah, when he was in the flesh. He was still referred to as the son of man. On the other hand, he was referred to as the son of God, even though he was not fully there yet.Gene:
Gene:
You: Jesus is a real human being alway was and always will be., he is the second Adam , perfected by GOD the Father the same c way we must be, when he returns he still will be a human being, a “son of man”.
Me:
Matt 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the SON OF MAN am… He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Me: Peter did not say that “thou art Christ, the son of man” but thou art Christ, the son of the living God. The Messiah is primarily the Son of God. He is secondarily the son of man. Click on the two links below. How many times to you see the phrase “son of God” after Pentecost. Then click on the second link. Add sons of God to this. I believe there are 21 verses.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=son+of+god&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=sons+of+god&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_2Now click on the two links below: How many verses are there with “son of man” after Pentecost. There is Acts 7:56 only. But that can be explained referring to when Stephen knew the Messiah and Rev 1:13-15 and Rev 14:14 refer to him as “one like unto the son of man.”
Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Me: God is spirit (a mind of the spirit). Christ was born a spirit (also a mind of the spirit)—the son of God of the spirit. The Son is like the Father.2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit
Me: Spirit is invisible. It is not the visible body. The aspect of Christ which is of the son of man is of his heart and soul, not of his body. Man will inherit that heart.
Ezk 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
