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TC….. “IF”, YOU BELIEVE THAT Jesus “himself” “IS” the word of God, then he would have to have prexisted, right?
You cannot seperate a word from “its origins”, can you? , I fully unberstand Jesus spoke “God the Fathers words” to us. I have no problem with that, but that does not make Jesus “himself” God’s word. Now if you say Jesus “is” the word “himself” according to your logic, then he must be God, the Father himself also, as I see it.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Gene
You said: TC….. “IF”, YOU BELIEVE THAT Jesus “himself” “IS” the word of God, then he would have to have prexisted, right?
Me: Gene He did pre-exist, He was the first born of creation, all things was created by him. You push aside so many scriptures. Your a joke. You must think we’re all idiots. Wow
God bless
Gene you need to share with complete idiots, I myself don’t see any here other then you and Nick.
God bless
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.Me: The Word pre-existed and was bonded completely with the mind of God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Me: The Word united with flesh at the conception of the Messiah. The Word grew in it’s bond with the express image of God that was fully in the Messiah from conception.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Me: The Word was completely united with the seed of David.
Gene:
You: “IF”, YOU BELIEVE THAT Jesus “himself” “IS” the word of God, then he would have to have prexisted, right?
Me: No, the Word pre-existed, not Jesus Christ.
John 1:1 In the beginning was (Me:existed) the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Me: The Word was COMPLETELY BONDED with God in before all creation and was therefore God. Save this thought for the last line here.
You: Now if you say Jesus “is” the word “himself” according to your logic, then he must be God, the Father himself also, as I see it.
Me:
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Me: The Word united with flesh at the conception of the Messiah. The Word grew in it’s bond with the express image of God that was fully in the Messiah from conception.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Me: The Word was COMPLETELY UNITED as one with the seed of David after his resurrection and glorification with the Father in heaven. Then was the Jesus called the Word of God, not before.
Hi Gene
Scriptures that may help.
John 1:1-4
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.Colossians 1:15-16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.Hebrews 1:1-2
God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;Genesis 1:26-27
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.Psalm 104:29-30
You hide Your face, they are troubled;
You take away their breath, they die and return to their dust.
You send forth Your Spirit, they are created;
And You renew the face of the earth.Psalm 139:14
I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very wellGod bless
Anthony, do you realize you don’t agree with TC at all, in what you say. He denies the preexistence of Jesus completely. The glory Jesus had with the Father was a predestined GLORY, as Jodi and I have shown you over and over. As far as him being made in the image of God, So are we, so what your point ?
The whole truth is you people are desperately trying to make Jesus completely “different’ them the rest of his human brothers and sisters, Something Jesus never ever did. In fact he told us that we must overcome “also as he did” and he overcame by the power of God the same as we must also.
You have a group of God’s , I have only “one” true GOD, and that GOD IS “NOT” JESUS, as scriptures show in a hundred different ways way , Jesus has a God, and a heavenly Father, the same one I have. At least me and Jesus do agree on that point. You on the other hand do not agree with him, Jodi or me on anything . You seem to actually hate the truth when you hear it, repent or it will be your description, but then again it just may not be your time to.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
TC……BEING UNITED with someone or thing, does not make you that something you are “united” with. Common sense 101.
Look God is a Spirit, and as such He can inter anyone he choses to, by his spirit, haven’t you read , brethern know you not that your body “is’ the temple God. Do you actually think that it was Jesus who said “destory this temple and I (God) shall raise it (the body God was tabernancling with Jesus “in” up in three days”. That was God the Father speaking first person through The man Jesus mouth. But none of that ever made the “man” Jesus a God. No more then when God spoke through Moses and the other prophets a God either.
TC, that would be like saying the Demons that spoke through the mouth of those they possessed made that person they were “in”, a demon themselves also. Why can’t you simply believe “God the Father “was” “in” Jesus, reconciling the world unto “himself”. Why can’t you people believe that, isn’t that what is “clearly” written in scroptures. So why not start to believe them.?
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Gene:
You: Anthony, do you realize you don’t agree with TC at all, in what you say. He denies the preexistence of Jesus completely. The glory Jesus had with the Father was a predestined GLORY, as Jodi and I have shown you over and over. As far as him being made in the image of God, So are we, so what your point ?
Me: Gene, this is another half truth by you.
I have said that the Word PRE-EXISTED all creation and then became one with the Messiah.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Me: How do we intrepid this? Did the Word transform himself into flesh? No, the Word married or united with flesh and became one. One definition of the Greek word here is “to unite”. Anthony and I agree that the Word had pre-existed, but may disagree in what form. You on the hand, deny that the Word of God, the exact image of himself pre-existed as God.
More importantly, we like the rest of us here, except you and Jodi here, agree that the Messiah is God and should be worshiped as God. You do not in light of the scriptures.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that JESUS (SALVATION) Christ (anointed) is come in __ flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in ___ flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith YHWH, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am YHWG; and BESIDES ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR.
John 1:1 In the beginning (me: existed) the Word, and the Word (me: existed) with God, and the Word was God (Me: link below: or God was the Word).
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-1.htmGene:
Jodi believes that Jesus should be worshipped. Do You? I believe you said that would be idolatry. If you deny this, I could look it up.
The Ordinary Jesus Brigade
PAGE 142
JUNE 5, 2019 AT 12:58 PMQuote: “Anthony I worship Jesus as the Messiah, and I worship God as the One True God, and if it were not for the One True God my heavenly Father, there would be no Messiah, no offspring of David that is the firstborn of the dead of many brethren”.
Gene,
You:
BEING UNITED with someone or thing, does not make you that something you are “united” with. Common sense 101.
Yes Gene, sometimes it doesn’t. But with the word of God, I had showed you all scriptures where it does.
1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Gene, You have proved to us how 1 Cor 2:14 pertains to you. One receives the words of the spirit supernaturally, which it appears you haven’t.
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Being blinded by God is also a supernatural event. He lets the devil this for him.
Gene
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou (Adam) shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Eve knew of it also.Genesis 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Me: Adam and Eve lived for almost a thousand years. What died in that very day was their spirit minds.
Luke 9:59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead (me: physically alive but spiritually dead) bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Me: What remained alive was their human minds. They had two minds united as one.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Me: We regenerate our spirit minds when we are baptized of the holy spirit. Those baptized in the holy spirit rise with Christ in a new life—when they follow the holy spirit in their spirit minds.
Young’s Literal Translation
Romans 8:6 for the mind of the flesh is death, and the mind of the Spirit — life and peace;Those born of the spirit of God have two minds in one: one of the flesh and one reborn of the spirit.
New American Standard Bible
Romans 8:6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,Me: Actually we have one mind which can follow the spirit of the flesh or the holy spirit.
Likewise the Word (express image of the mind of God) became one with the seed of David. The spirit mind or the Word became one with the human mind of the seed of David.
Ezk 37:9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
Me: This is the spirit of the flesh.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Gene:
You: Look God is a Spirit, and as such He can enter anyone he choses to, by his spirit, haven’t you read , brethern know you not that your body “is’ the temple God. Do you actually think that it was Jesus who said “destory this temple and I (God) shall raise it (the body God was tabernancling with Jesus “in” up in three days”.
Me: YES, The Word in the Messiah raised up the human temple together with the human soul of the Messiah.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.
Me: The Word or spirit mind of the Messiah is the resurrection. This includes the body and soul of the Messiah himself.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
You: That was God the Father speaking first person through The man Jesus mouth. But none of that ever made the “man” Jesus a God. No more then when God spoke through Moses and the other prophets a God either.
Me:
I have shown you all the scriptures that the Word is the spokesman or messenger of God. This coupled with the fact that the Word is the exact copy or image of the mind of God and therefore is God. Because you don’t believe it, doesn’t make it untrue. God raised up the human mind and soul of the Messiah through his Word.John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: FOR WHATEVER THINGS soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him ALL THINGS that himself doeth:
Me: This statement doesn’t only mean that when the human mind and soul of the Messiah was alive but when it was dead also. The spirit mind of the Messiah never died.
Good News Translation
John 1:1 In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Click on the link below. You will find this “God was the Word” or God (Me: en 1510: existed) as the Word, and not the other way around.
You: that would be like saying the Demons that spoke through the mouth of those they possessed made that person they were “in”, a demon themselves also. Why can’t you simply believe “God the Father “was” “in” Jesus, reconciling the world unto “himself”. Why can’t you people believe that, isn’t that what is “clearly” written in scroptures. So why not start to believe them?
Me: God was completely in the Messiah as the Word of God or spirit mind which is the exact copy of his mind. The exact expression cannot do anything other than what God does.
Hi Gene
You said: Anthony, do you realize you don’t agree with TC at all, in what you say. He denies the preexistence of Jesus completely.
Me: TC and Me agree on this matter
TC said:
Me: The Word pre-existed and was bonded completely with the mind of God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Me: The Word united with flesh at the conception of the Messiah. The Word grew in it’s bond with the express image of God that was fully in the Messiah from conception.
Me: I agree 100% with TC.
Gene the truth is your trying to make out that Jesus Christ is just a man. Which He isn’t. You neglect to see Jesus Christ for who He is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
Keep studying God will lift the blinders of your spiritual eyes. You need not that man teach you all you need is alot of help from God, ask and you will receive, in God’s time. A little here and a little there, ASK= PRAY
Don’t listen to Jodi, God is your helper.
God bless 🙏
TC…..So you do believe Jesus himself is the Messiah, and therefore GOD. “Right”, so that makes you and Anthony believe the same on that right? And you both believe then, that Jesus preexisted his birth on this earth am I correct so far?, and you both believe Jesus created everything as a prexisting God right? You both believe God and his words are not the same thing right?
So TC and Anthony, take your time and explain these scriptures, if you can.
1….Jesus speaking,…… that they might know “you” the “only” true God….. please explain the italics words, as you both proceed them .
2….Jesus speaking…….., hear O Israel the lord “our” God, is “one lord”….
3… God speaking, you shall have “no” “other God”, “besides me”, you shall make “no” “Image” of me in heaven above or earth beneath…….
4….God speaking, “This says God the LORD, “he” that created the heavens, and stretched them out; “he” that spread forth the earth, and that which comes out of it; he that gives breath unto people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein.
5 ….God speaking….“thus says the LORD and your redeemer and he that formed you from the womb, I am the LORD that makes “all things”; that stretches forth the heavens “alone” ; that spreadeth abroad the earth “by myself” ,…
6….God speaking. …you are my witnesses, says the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: “before me” there was “no God” formed, neither shall there be “after me”.
7…Paul speaking….For there is “one” God, and “one” mediator between God and men, the “man” the anointed Jesus.
On and on we can go, showing there is “no other God” but the one and “only” True God, and that God is not now nor ever was Jesus.
Jesus “clearly” Said this, I am going to My Father “and” your Father “my God” and your God . So it states Jesus had a God and it sure was not Himself, that is if you truly “believe” what Jesus said, which it appears you people really don’t. Or perhaps you people have a different bible then we do.
Why not try to figure out those scriptures for a change, instead of ignoring them as if they were not in your Bible’s.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Anthony…..here’s another one for you to twist,
1 Cor 15:28….And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also “himself” be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD may “be all in all”.
If you could just understand those last four words, you might begin to get thing right, God the Father lives in and his creation and that includs Jesus, and all who have his spirit in them.
Believe Jesus when he said the Father who is “in” me “he” doth the works, GOD DWELLING in Jesus never made Jesus that God who was “in” him, as you people “falsely” preach.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi Gene
Gene I already showed you that may be you ought to read my post go back and look for the posts.
God bless
Gene;
Yes Gene, Christ’s father is greater than him. But Christ is the son of God and express image of God and is God. This was explained to you a thousand times already. At this point if you don’t get it, then it is a loss cause. I have answered your questions thoroughly already.
Isa 9:6 (NKJV) For unto us a CHILD is born,
Unto us a SON is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, MIGHTY GOD,
Everlasting FATHER, PRINCE of Peace.John 10:29 (NKJV) My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and MY FATHER AND I ARE ONE.”
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our GOD IS ONE LORD:
Me: It doesn’t say that “there is only one God”. It says God is one. That means God is more than one part.
John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
Me: Even the apostate Jews understood what he meant, but you don’t. If Anthony, T8, Ed, and Carmel want to continue answering your posts and go on to part 2, 3 and forever, let that be there prerogative.
TC…..Don’t need a host of “Platoian” contrived explanations, that force a false conclusion , just show a scripture that says, “That christ the son of God is the expressed image of God, “and” therefore , he “is God”. Surely such a important thing as Jesus being a God , you should easely be able to produce a host of scriptures that say that, but I haven’t seen “one”.
So you guys stich together different texts and force the text to say what in fact it does not actually say, well that nothing new. I totally understand he was made in the “image” of God , no problem with that, because, “so are we”. But none of that makes us a God, nor does it make Jesus a God either .
What you people do is first try to “seperate” Jesus from the rest of his brothers and sister, then proceed to turn him into a God. Bad form TC. You steal the Glory aforded only to God the Father, and Give it to the Son, something Jesus sure never did. Jesus never thought to rob God to make himself equal to God, that is what you people do.
You falsely believe, that us being made in the image of God, is not the same as Jesus being Made in the image of God, please show us a single scripture that says that.
TC, sorry to see that God the Father hasen’t seem to allow you guys to see the truth yet. But I am sure not going to change what he has “clearly” shown me for over 55 years now, I am 78 on the 21 of this month and stand as firm in my belief as when I started, even stronger and stronger as time passes.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
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