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Hi All,
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Me: I have Never found the saints had bonded directly with the Father.John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me…20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Me: Father > Christ > us
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
1 Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of GOD OUR SAVIOUR ; 4 Who WILL have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth…. 6 Who (Christ) gave himself a ransom for all.
Me: God’s desire for all to be saved will be done.
Matt 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy WILL BE DONE in earth, as it is in heaven.
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Me: The word that goes out from God is through his WORD, the express image of himself.
Hi All,
1 Cor 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Me: Who is the dead we are baptized for?
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Me: We are baptized for the creatures we will have dominion over. They too will receive the holy spirit
Romans 8:19 (NKJV)For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of [f]corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
Isa 43:20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.
Me: I believe this is a dual prophecy. Those of the wilderness without the spirit of God in them will drink of the holy spirit.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
1 Cor 12:3 (NIV) Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
Me: The whole creation will have the spirit of God in it. There will be only one spirit in the new heavens and earth–the holy spirit. We will communicate with the animals like man did before the fall. The animal mouths will be open as in
Numbers 22:26 And the angel of YHWH went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left. 27 And when the ass saw the angel of YHWH she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam’s anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff. 28 And YHWH opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? 29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee. 30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. 31 Then YHWH opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of YHWH standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face. 32 And the angel of YHWH said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me: 33 And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive. 34 And Balaam said unto the angel of YHWH I have sinned; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: now therefore, if it displease thee, I will get me back again.
Hi TC,
There is so much you have posted above I don’t even know where to begin, my mind is spinning, and I haven’t even read all of it yet, lol.
I just read all of 1 Peter 1 and then read Romans 8, they speak directly against your doctrine.
1 Peter 1:1, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
This doesn’t seem to fit with your doctrine TC.
Blessed be the God and Father of our master Jesus The Anointed, for according to God by His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope BY the resurrection of Jesus The Anointed from the dead. Our hope is that we too shall be resurrected from the dead.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them he also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.
TC, Jesus was made perfect by God so that he could die paying the penalty for our sins which is death. Our sins are no longer counted for death, all the dead are to be raised again to life, some to eternal life and some to judgement. Those who get to be raised up in glory, in power, incorruptible just like Jesus was, are those who have mortified the deeds of the body. They are those like Paul who could not wait for temptation to be removed so he could serve God, walking in His path not having anything trying to pull him away.
Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Back to 1 Peter 1:
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
The WORD is PREACHED, the prophets spoke it, Jesus spoke it, and the apostles spoke it. In that word our faith in God grows, God CALLS His elected that where established before time began, to believe it, and He calls people to speak it.
In that word it is PREACHED that a man shed his blood paying the penalty of death for our sins. I no longer have to live in fear that my sins bring me death, as long as I mortify the deeds in my body I will have life, eternal life.
When one is mortifying the deeds in the body, they are repentant to God, they are saying in their heart I want to walk in your ways God, I want to walk as Jesus walked, I want to live with a body that does not tempt me anymore, where my mind is free to serve God. Without Jesus we would not have that faith that leads us to desire God.
The law proved that man can do nothing of himself, Jesus proves that a man can do all things true and righteous through RECEIVING God’s Spirit according to a measure of fullness that God determined makes a man perfect.
The mortal Jesus was called by God, elected out of the people, to be made perfect, to die on the cross for us and be the first human raised from the dead to eternal life. He was a Lamb of God and God was his Shepherd, leading him by His Spirit unto obedience.
Other mortal men are called to repentance and are called to faith into believing what God accomplished in Jesus. Our faith counts for us as our righteousness, where through our faith we will receive God’s promise at Christ’s return.
God appointed Jesus to be our king, our master, our shepherd. Jesus went to heaven to prepare a place for us, to get the Kingdom ready. When Christ returns we will follow Jesus because God has given him the instructions to how mankind is to live in the new earth, in God’s Kingdom. We will be spending eternity on earth learning from our heavenly Father, living in peace, where it is not possible for us to miss a mark. We will be humans with imaginations who put their trust fully in God living by His righteousness, creating and inventing things that please Him, we will sing new songs of praise, David and others will join in with their harp.
Hi TC and All,
This entire chapter of John 3 tells you that,
Jesus is a man that was born again, by being born again he saw the kingdom of God and that is how he was able to PREACH of the kingdom of God.
He had received God’s Spirit without measure, that is how he was able to speak God’s WORD.
This man BORN again of Water and of the Spirit is he who is called God’s only begotten Son.
It is the Son of Man who is from heaven, that is BECAUSE Jesus had been born again, “as a man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven”.
This Son of Man brings eternal life
The Son of God is said to be the man who had been given the Spirit without measure.
The only begotten Son brings eternal life.
John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him,Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God…. 27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. 28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
“Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
“A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.”
“He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice.”
The bride is the Spirit, Jesus is the bridegroom that has the Spirit, the friend of the bridegroom listens to the voice of the bridegroom.
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
“He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth.”
Jesus spoke not of the earth, he spoke from heaven from God, because he had received the Spirit in order to do so, such made him FROM above and not from of the earth.
The one that was GIVEN of the Spirit without measure is CALLED the Son. God had promised that He would be mindful of a man, visit him, put all things into his hands.
God puts all things into his hands because he GAVE him of His Spirit, to be sent out to fulfill all of God’s will. All things were placed in an anointed man’s hands, because receiving the Spirit he was led by the Spirit, and by being led by the Spirit, that which he received in his hands, he could then do exactly all of what God wanted him to do with it.
Hi Jodi,
You: There is so much you have posted above I don’t even know where to begin, my mind is spinning,
Me: If you had stopped right there, I would have agreed with you and had said “excellent post’. But the trouble is that you hadn’t. I do not wish to comment on your last posts at this time as we have gone over this before.
TC,
Can you acknowledge that God established the END FROM the beginning?
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man (anthropos – human) coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Can you acknowledge that the END involves the Son of Man (anthropos -human) returning in power and glory and that he will execute judgement NOT by his own eyes and ears? (Isaiah 11)
Can you acknowledge that God promised eternal life before time on earth began?
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man (anthropos – human) is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Can you acknowledge that before time on earth began IN God’s promise was the Son of Man who would COME to SAVE that which was lost?
Hi Jodi,
You: Can you acknowledge that God established the END FROM the beginning?
Me: Christ is the end of the old creation and the beginning of the new by his resurrection from the dead
Col 1:18 (NKJV) And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the BEGINNING, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
Me: Christ is the beginning of the new creation—of the holy spirit.
1 Cor 15:24 Then comes the END, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
Me: He is the END of the new creation.
Rev 1:13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the FIRST AND THE LAST… Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Me: He is the beginning and end of the new creation.
Isa 65:17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or [f]come to mind.Rev 21:1 (NKJV) Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
Me: the creation will be so awesome that in time the former heaven and earth and all creation will not be remembered. That includes our sins that will not be remembered.Isa 43:25 “I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake;
And I will not remember your sins.Heb 8:11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know YHWH,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
Hi Jodi,
Col 1:15 (NKJV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Me: The Word is a spirit, or a mind of the one holy spirit. This mind, which is invisible and in the Christ is the Word of God is the express image of the invisible God. The eternal Word of God together with the humanity of the heart of the humanity of Christ in it is the firstborn of the new creation.
Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
1 6 For (1722: in) Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.1722. en en: in, on, at, by, with
Original Word: ἐν
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: en
Phonetic Spelling: (en)
Definition: IN, on, at, by, with
USAGE: IN, on, among.Me: The use of the definition “in” would make the most sense since the body of Christ was not yet created, only Theophanys (Heb 10:5). This is the visible image of God or the vision of his body expressed through Christ.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Hi Jodi,
Me: If God created all things visible and invisible through his Word, how could he do this if his Word had not always existed? How could the Word create himself if he had not first existed? And if had existed first, then he had not created himself—no one did.
Hi Jodi,
You…and that he will execute judgement NOT by his own eyes and ears? (Isaiah 11)
Me: This does not mean that it is the Father who actually judges.
Isa 11:3 (NKJV)”His delight is in the fear of YHWH.
And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes,
Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;1 Samuel 16: 7 (NKJV) But the YHWH said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have [c]refused him. For[d] YHWH does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but YHWH looks at the heart.”
Me: YHWH does NOT LOOK AT OUTWORD APPEARANCE but the heart.
By the way, who was speaking to Samuel? It couldn’t have been the now father because no one has ever heard his voice. It was the Word or spokesman that was speaking to Samuel.
John 5:20 20 (NKJV) For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
John 5:30 (NKJV) I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
Me: The son FREELY SEEKS the will of his Father. The father shows him what to do, and the son does it. The Father does all things through the son. Now the son was led and was speaking by the Word of God in him that existed before the creation of all things. The Father had SENT the Word of God to become one with flesh (John 1;14). The word is the exact image of the person of his father and thus we should worship him (honor) like we honor his father.
Hi Jodi,
You: Can you acknowledge that the END involves the Son of Man (anthropos -human) returning in power and glory….
Daniel 7:13 (NKJV) “I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One LIKE the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,Compared to:
Rev 1:13 (NKJV) and in the midst of the seven lampstands One LIKE the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters;
Me: One like the son of man is not the son of man but the son of God that looks like the son of man but is a glorified version.
Romans 1:4 (NKJV) concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who [a]was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the SON OF GOD with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
Heb 1 (NKJV)
The Son Exalted Above Angels
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten (born) You”?
And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”Me: The son of man became the son of God fully by his resurrection and glorification.
Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
Me: Christ is now the son of God, not the son of man anymore, so it is with us. The whole creation awaits the revealing of the sons of God, not the sons of men.You:
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man (anthropos – human) coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Me: The reference point is when Christ had the human form and not the spiritual form of his body. He was speaking to the apostles as the son of man not glorified fully as the son of God.Me: bogus
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=son+of+man&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_4Only in Acts 7:56 is the “son of man” used in reference to the Messiah after he was resurrected from the dead. Why is this?
Acts 7:56 (NKJV) When they heard these things they were [h]cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the SON OF MAN standing at the right hand of God!”
Me: Again, Stephen was using the reference point of when he knew Christ as the son of man. This does not mean that Christ is the son of man anymore; he is fully the son of God as I have just shown you.
Hi Jodi,
You: Can you acknowledge that God promised eternal life before time on earth began?
Can you acknowledge that before time on earth began IN God’s promise was the Son of Man who
would COME to SAVE that which was lost?Me: If no one was created or around as you say, who then did he promise it to at that time?
TC…..notice it says, I “will”be to him a father and he “SHALL” be a son unto me. Notice those are all future tense expressions , so we can say Jesus was not a Son of God, nor was GOD his father at the time that was written. , so where do these false teachers come up with, he already existed before his birth on this earth ? The only way he existed was in the plan and will of God the Father.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Gene:
You: TC…..notice it says, I “will”be to him a father and he “SHALL” be a son unto me. Notice those are all future tense expressions , so we can say Jesus was not a Son of God, nor was GOD his father at the time that was written. , so where do these false teachers come up with, he already existed before his birth on this earth ? The only way he existed was in the plan and will of God the Father.
Me: Heb 1:5-6 was written long after the Messiah had ascended into heaven and had resurrected from the dead and glorified in heaven. So how could Christ become the son of God much later after his resurrection and glorification into heaven? Did he have to go back Jordan. Please Gene, you are not talking to idiots.
Heb 1 (NKJV)
The Son Exalted Above Angels
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“You are My Son,
TODAY I have begotten (born) You”?
And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”Me: God would be a Father and Christ his son the instant AFTER he was born of God. You have deliberately lied to yourself and us because your statement does not balance with logic or scripture.
Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Hi Ed
Regarding the above passage – It boils down to two kingdoms. There are two kingdoms here on earth. One is from below, and the other one is from above. You should know that Christ came to show us the heavenly kingdom simply by teaching us to learn and obey the Word of God. Whatever is done to take us out of captivity, comes from above and is of our Father’s kingdom. If our intervention comes from Christ, and we receive a little help…ie mercy, deliverance….eye’s opened, then it’s that kingdom from above that has touched us, and not the kingdom from below. We have not inherited yet if God gives a little help, but he has only opened our eyes so that we can identify and follow the true Shepherd.
Jesus came to show us the way. He is the door. The path leading into the kingdom of God is very narrow. If we stick to that path and endure to the end we shall be chosen by Christ to take part in the resurrection of the saints. Only then can we enter and inherit all things that the Father has prepared for us. Cannot claim the prize before we finish the race, but walk towards it as faithful children willing to make it to the other side despite all the thorns and temptations and learn to overcome them. The race is not over yet, and when it is, if we are found faithful we will be born again of the spirit. Born again, not of the flesh, but of spirit.
Hi Georgie,
Matthew 12:28 says: “then the kingdom of God is come unto you”
is does not say: ‘then the kingdom of God is available to you when you die’
Why is it that you believe YOU cannot enter the kingdom of God until after you are dead?Here is another verse for you to consider…
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time
the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.Are you also claiming that one can press them selves
into the kingdom of God after they are dead?
Please answer these 2 questions, ok?____________
God bless
Ed JJodi,
You appear to keep missing my point, Jesus couldn’t have fully learn to be obedient
to God’s will until just before he went to the cross… Here are the references:”And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me:
nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.” (Mark 14:36)”And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down,
and prayed, Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me:
nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” (Luke 22:41-42)THEN ACCORDING TO YOU JESUS COULD NOT HAVE BEEN FULLY MADE PERFECT
UNTIL AT THE POINT HE AGREED TO GO TO THE CROSSDo you agree with this observation of your view or not? Please answer, ok?
”the things which he suffered; And being made perfect”
Or maybe you believe he was made perfect after he died?
Because he didn’t suffer from the crucifixion until AFTER
Which is it? Please tell me EXACTLY when you believe he was made perfect?I hope you finally understand my question, because I really do want
to understand what you believe. So please answer my question this time.Thank you!
____________
God bless
Ed JHi TC,
YOU:Heb 1:5-6 was written long after the Messiah had ascended into heaven and had resurrected from the dead and glorified in heaven. So how could Christ become the son of God much later after his resurrection and glorification into heaven? Did he have to go back Jordan. Please Gene, you are not talking to idiots.
ME: TC Hebrews is quoting from prophecy that was given to David that we can read from in Psalm 2 and 2 Samuel 7.
Gene spoke correctly to you,
Psalm 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
2 Samuel 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son
Hebrews is speaking about what had been SAID long ago, and what had been said long ago was a prophecy to be fulfilled.
Gene is exactly right, there was NO Son of God, there was going to be a Son of God and that Son was going to come through God begetting the son of David.
Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
“I will be his father, and he shall be my son”
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Exodus 40:2 And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water. 13 And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and ANOINT him, and SANCTIFY him; that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office.
Hebrews 5:4 And NO MAN taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is CALLED OF God, as was Aaron. 5 So ALSO Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and SENT into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
The son of David went to the Jordan to fulfill all righteousness, he was washed clean in the river and came up with the Spirit coming down to rest upon him, he was anointed, sanctified to be a high priest to fulfill the covenant, be a sacrifice for our sins. He was elected, a man like Aaron CALLED of God.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have CALLED thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another.
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
The Son of Man was sanctified, sealed, anointed with God’s Spirit in full measure being CALLED to righteousness where God would not allow him to fail, God would hold his hand and KEEP him to fulfill His covenant. Jesus of Nazareth the son of David baptized to be cleansed and anointed with God’s Spirit to be SENT out being fully led by God’s Spirit to fulfill all of God’s will. He was BORN again being fully led by the Spirit of God and thus he was a Son of God, the people beheld the glory of this anointed man as he was filled with grace and truth. God’s words spoken by Isaiah and David made true in the flesh of David’s son Jesus of Nazareth.
Hi Jodi,
You Quoted me:
Heb 1:5-6 was written long after the Messiah had ascended into heaven and had resurrected from the dead and glorified in heaven. So how could Christ become the son of God much later after his resurrection and glorification into heaven? Did he have to go back Jordan. Please Gene, you are not talking to idiots.You: Hebrews is quoting from prophecy that was given to David that we can read from in Psalm 2 and 2 Samuel 7.
Me: This is true.
Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Me: Then he had written “it says, I “will”be to him a father and he “SHALL” be a son unto me. Notice those are all future tense expressions , so we can say Jesus was not a Son of God, nor was GOD his father at the time that was written.
What was written. Plain English requires he is speaking about Heb 1:5-6 which he quoted. There is no “And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?” in either Psalms 2 or 2 Sam 7. So I took “future expression” to mean future of Heb 1:5-6. This is the only scripture he quoted. He and you need to be more precise, not more wordy.
Hi Gene,
You wrote on post #845889 on page 16 of “The Creations of Genesis 1 and John 1 Revised” post:
“I am not saying you believe he did preexist, as I believe you don’t believe he preexisted either”.Then you wrote in your above post:
“so where do these false teachers come up with, he already existed before his birth on this earth ? The only way he existed was in the plan and will of God the Father.:”No one else is presently addressing you just me. So how do you figure? I have always maintained that the Word pre-existed creation and he became one with the seed of David (John 1:14)
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