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Ed,
Jesus was formed in his mother’s womb. Isn’t that created?
Hi Kerwin,
Are you suggesting that since
it was Mary’s womb that formed Christ
that she created Christ?Hi T8:
And if he is this Word, then he was with God in the beginning, something some people here not only believe, but also teach.
Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.The scripture does not say “that he is the Word of God” but that “his name is the Word of God”. The “name” speaks of His authority, and of his character. In Revelation 19 he is coming to judge unbelievers, and he will do so by the Word of God that was spoken by God through him, and the he obeyed without sin unto death.
Revelation 19:
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And if you are trying to find somewhere in the OT, where you see God speaking through him, was he speaking through him as His Son, and I ask because of the following scripture:
Hebrews 1King James Version (KJV)
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
The scriptures states that God spoke in many ways in times past including through prophets, but the scripture does not say that he spoke through His Son until “these last days”.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi T8:
Let me add the following scripture to what I have written above relative to how Jesus will judge:
Revelation 12:
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Ed,
Jesus was formed in his mother’s womb. Isn’t that created?
Kerwin. How about coming in the flesh. If he existed in the form of God, then emptied himself, then being born through Mary is coming in the flesh. Created has the implication that you have existed for the first time.
The scripture does not say “that he is the Word of God” but that “his name is the Word of God”. The “name” speaks of His authority, and of his character. In Revelation 19 he is coming to judge unbelievers, and he will do so by the Word of God that was spoken by God through him, and the he obeyed without sin unto death.
Jesus came in his Father’s name. Yet HIS name is the Word of God. HIS is not God. HIS is Jesus. His name was also Jesus. Are we to assume that he is someone else who came in the name of Jesus who is another person?
She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus,
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
So as for the person in question.
Is he Jesus? Yes.
Is he the Word of God? Yes.
Hi T8,
Was he always known as Jesus? No
Does it mean he always existed ?No.
Listen to the Spirit in the man
t8,
Ed,
Jesus was formed in his mother’s womb. Isn’t that created?
Kerwin. How about coming in the flesh. If he existed in the form of God, then emptied himself, then being born through Mary is coming in the flesh. Created has the implication that you have existed for the first time.
Paul teaches us all humans are clothed in flesh in 2 Corinthians 5:3 and so each and every one of them comes in the flesh.
The teaching in 1 John and 2 John is probably addressing Gnostic teachings that blamed sin on the flesh. It may be from these same Gnostics that you get some of your ideas. They also differ in tense at least in some translations. The poor English and present tense in 2 John is interesting.
2 John 1:7
Young’s Literal Translation
because many leading astray did enter into the world, who are not confessing Jesus Christ coming in flesh; this one is he who is leading astray, and the antichrist.1 John 4:3
Young’s Literal Translation
and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already.t8,
There is no context that teaches us who or what Revelation 19 is speaking of. Jewish and Early Christians are strange to our ears as they are know to represent idea as beings. Thus the wisdom of God becomes the daughter or wife of God and the word that comes from the mouth of God because the chief of angels. So technically it could be speaking the word that comes out of God’s mouth, which would explain the sharp sword that comes out of his mouth or it could be Jesus.
Technically I know of no way to tell but in practicality since the word was made in Jesus Christ there is no real difference. Even we assume it is about Jesus it does not tell us if he was the word in John 1:1 because it describes a time after the word was made flesh. That is also the situation with other scripture individuals attempt to prove Jesus is the word mentioned in John 1:1.
Hi T8:
Actually, the scripture does not say “his name is the Word of God”.
YLT has it:
Rev 19:
13 and he is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, and his name is called, The Word of God.
There is a difference in saying “his name is”, and “his name is called” The Word of God.
As I have stated, “his name is called” pertains to his character and his position of authority.
The Word of God is that which God has spoken through him to humanity. He did obey the Word of God without sin unto death, and he is “the express image of God’s person” by his spirit or character that was formed through his obedience of the Word of God without sin unto death.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi T8,
Was he always known as Jesus? No
Does it mean he always existed ?No.
Listen to the Spirit in the man
Nick, no one is saying that he existed as a man called Jesus in Heaven. I have said this a number of times before. Do you have ears to hear?
He existed in the form of God, emptied himself, and came in the flesh.
Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
I have also said that he was not called Jesus in Heaven. Rather his name is the Word of God.
We read in John that the Word was with God. The Word seems to be the first that was with God. The firstborn it seems.
Hi T8:
Actually, the scripture does not say “his name is the Word of God”.
YLT has it:
Rev 19:
13 and he is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, and his name is called, The Word of God.
There is a difference in saying “his name is”, and “his name is called” The Word of God.
As I have stated, “his name is called” pertains to his character and his position of authority.
Hi Marty. All names are like that. Jesus renamed Cephas to Peter (rock). We all have a name written on a stone that only We and God know.
He was also called Jesus.
Hi T8,
Yes you speak of the Spirit.
Now the Lord is the Spirit.
We no longer speak of Christ according to the flesh
Flesh contributes nothing
t8,
There is no context that teaches us who or what Revelation 19 is speaking of. Jewish and Early Christians are strange to our ears as they are know to represent idea as beings. Thus the wisdom of God becomes the daughter or wife of God and the word that comes from the mouth of God because the chief of angels. So technically it could be speaking the word that comes out of God’s mouth, which would explain the sharp sword that comes out of his mouth or it could be Jesus.
Technically I know of no way to tell but in practicality since the word was made in Jesus Christ there is no real difference. Even we assume it is about Jesus it does not tell us if he was the word in John 1:1 because it describes a time after the word was made flesh. That is also the situation with other scripture individuals attempt to prove Jesus is the word mentioned in John 1:1.
So if technically to you there is no way to know, then why do you teach a definite position on this?
To me I just believe that the Word came from God, was with God, became flesh, died, back in glory that he had with the Father before the cosmos. That God created all things through the Word and that he created all things through the son. They only begotten of the Father. The full visible expression of the invisible Father God. The son and the one God made as Lord and savior.
There are a lot of scriptures that we can draw upon, but to say that he is not the Word that was with God, even though he has that name, and that this word became flesh, is to deny the obvious IMO. And then to even go as far to say that God made all things through his Word, and also through the son is pretty clear.
If you look at the attributes of the Word and the Son, you will see the same thing. And then he is called the Word of God. That nails it.
The Book of John is about Jesus. It starts off with the Word and shows his ancient origin.
I don’t go with the view that Jesus Christ was just a flesh man created 2000 years ago who was anointed. That sounds more like a prophet to me. God didn’t send a prophet to die for us. HE sent his only begotten son.
It was Jesus Christ who came in the flesh, not Jesus. Don’t let the name confuse you. He existed in the form of God, emptied himself, and came in the flesh.
Hi T8,
Yes you speak of the Spirit.
Now the Lord is the Spirit.
We no longer speak of Christ according to the flesh
Flesh contributes nothing
But who is the one promoting the idea that Jesus was just a man who was anointed and is no different to a prophet.
Certainly I am the one not speaking of him according to the flesh, you are. Rather I draw his origin to a more ancient past than 2000 years ago, In fact his origin as the Word of God that was with God for so he is called. Jesus Christ came in the flesh. He existed in the form of God, emptied himself, and came in the flesh. You seem to preach that Jesus is nothing but flesh and thus is nothing of for us. But Jesus is the anointed on of God. He is more than a prophet. And he is now at the right-hand of God in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos. God sent prophets, then his son. His son is different, but too many here want to make him a mere man.
Hi T8,
Of course Jesus was made both Lord and Christ so was not conceived or born as such.
You got the first part right. But the latter is error.
HE existed in the form of God, emptied himself, and through the power of God, he sent his son into the world to be born as a man and live as a man. Yes God made him Lord and Christ, that is God’s doing. But Jesus Christ was born as that baby who was the messiah and Lord, not just an ordinary man anointed later by God, like a prophet.
11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”
13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,
14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”Now let’s compare your words with scripture.
Bible: Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.
Nick: Of course Jesus was made both Lord and Christ so was not conceived or born as such.
Nick, your doctrine has been found wanting. You need to repent.
Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
T8,
Jeremiah 1:5Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;
and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee,
and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.When was Jeremiah literally ordained the prophet unto the nations?
Hi t8,
Nothing but flesh?
Body, soul and spirit just like other men.
And the anointing on this man is in the same way as the apostles.
Of course It is the human Jesus that is logos and not merely a separate spirit called Christ.For when the Word became flesh did it then cease to be the logos? I think not and neither do any of the saints of old including those holy Arian saints who in later times were denied sainthood by the Roman church.
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