JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2014,06:43)

Hi ED, The prophets were clean vessels fit to be used of the Spirit of God. Their walk was according to the OT law. The new covenant is in the blood of Jesus Christ and we must be clothed in Christ through baptism.[gal3.27] We must be baptised into his death[Rom6] and raised in the Spirit[rom6]

Hi Nick,

Gal.3:27 says “baptized into Christ”, not baptized into water.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
Quite so.

Baptism is the new circumcision.
col 2.9f

Circumcision was very important to the jews but you think baptism is not relevant for followers of Jesus Christ?

[journey42]

Quote

In the BEGINNING, the Word was there, it was WITH God, (creating) And it WAS God  (before he started creating)

Quote

So in your mind, John, for some odd reason, listed the events out of order?

Yes, it appears he is explaining the WORD, that it was there in the beginning, and that THE WORD was with God in the beginning, and that the WORD WAS GOD originally.
The WORD WAS GOD,
NOT AND THE WORD IS GOD.
THIS IS MY POINT.

Quote

Shouldn't he have said “the Word WAS God, but then the Word came to be WITH God” ?

Who are we to say how God should of explained it?
I say he didn't explain it wrong.
I say he knew exactly what he was doing.
keeping the understanding hidden from wolves in sheep's clothing, and making this verse true;

Matthew 11:27   All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Do you believe this verse?
I do.
NO MAN KNOWS UNLESS IT IS REVEALED TO HIM BY CHRIST.
REVEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, SO IN OTHER WORDS, GIVEN UNDERSTANDING.
These wolves in sheep's clothing have come in and changed God's Word to the way they think it should be read, because there is no holy spirit there to help them understand.
These Wolves, hate the very name of Jesus, and his position,
and talk him down, thinking they are raising God up!
It cannot and will not be revealed to these wolves,
and even if we try to explain what God has hidden,
then there is nothing we can do to make you understand what we are shown, for we cannot give out the holy spirit, but testify of it.
IT IS HIDDEN FROM THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE GOD'S WORD CAN BE TRUSTED and SPEND A GREAT DEAL OF THEIR LIVES SOWING THIS INTO THE FIELD.  PLANTING WEEDS,
and MISSING OUT ON THE TREASURES.

[journey42]

Quote

Why does John have the Word being WITH God first, and BEING God later?

Because the emphasis is on CHRIST BEING THE WORD OF GOD, that is what the chapter starts off explaining.  It's revealing who Christ is, and revealing in the background who the Word originally was for those weaned off the milk.
No person will ever understand John 1:1 straight off, unless they have fed on the scriptures first, building up their spiritual knowledge, and receiving the promise of the holy spirit.
It is a gift that has to be earned.  Eat Christ's flesh, and that measure will increase daily.
The Words of life are the scriptures, if we do not eat the scriptures, then we deprave ourselves of spiritual nutrition, blocking ourselves from allowing the holy spirit to come in.

But many say, yes I've read and read for the last 20 years.
Really?
who's flesh did you eat?
Didn't you say this flesh was no good?

[journey42]

Quote

The KJV was issued first, yours came much later preaching a different gospel…….

Quote

One of the very first languages into which the Greek NT was translated was the Coptic language. Somewhere around 200-300 A.D., I believe.  The Coptic language was the very first language into which the NT was translated that uses an indefinite article like English does.  And the Coptic people translated John 1:1 as, “and the Word was A god“.

You see Mike, it always comes down to this.
You telling us not to trust what God first gave us.  The truth in his Word.

Quote

That means that at the VERY FIRST opportunity someone had to translate 1:1 as “a god” – they did it.  Long, long, long BEFORE your KJV translated it as “God”.

This came after the holy bible was introduced to the gentiles, and completely contrary to the 95% of copies found, and started a new Religion and preached a different gospel, doing the very thing that we were warned about, and has many holes in it and contradictions, so I say it is evidence of what the devil can do in one of his methods of deception to lead the flock astray.

The Coptic translation produced a NEW RELIGION.  The Jehovah Witnesses.  A different gospel with the guise of being the same.  The Coptic translation condemns the fact that God made Jesus equal to himself, in the sense of having all knowlege and holiness, and power on this earth, given to him from God, and instead wants us to believe that Jesus is in fact equal to the angels, and claim Christ is an angel, so you see, it produced a “new doctrine”

Quote

Talk away, journey.  I'm not stopping you.  As I read your posts, if I see something that needs pointed out, questioned, or corrected, I will do so.  But you are under no obligation to respond to those questions and corrections.

You are very welcome to do that.

Matthew 7:13   Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Matthew 7:14   Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 7:15   Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2014,03:19)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 28 2014,03:09) Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 27 2014,12:52) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 27 2014,17:00) Journey, Jesus is not a half-God.  The Greek polytheistic religion had plenty of half-god's and they had no trouble making that clear to their hearers and yet not one word in Scripture about Jesus being a half-God. Kerwin Jesus was 100% human, but his Father is God. It's that simple. Journey, Jesus was 100% human as for his flesh, soul, spirit but 100% son of God as for his Spirit. k WRONG ,THE SOUL CAN NOT BE KILLED BY ANYONE ELSE THAN GOD ;SCRIPTURES SAY SO , SO THE SOUL OF JESUS WAS THE SAME IN HEAVEN THAN ON EARTH AS IT BECAME FLESH

T,

If Jesus' soul was anything other than human he would not have been a human. If you take the soul of a rabbit and place in a human body you have a rabbit in a human body. If God were to place his soul in a human body then he would still be God and not a human being.

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 28 2014,07:14)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 28 2014,08:06) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 27 2014,18:48) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 27 2014,17:00) Journey, Jesus is not a half-God.  The Greek polytheistic religion had plenty of half-god's and they had no trouble making that clear to their hearers and yet not one word in Scripture about Jesus being a half-God. Hi Kerwin, You may find that term distasteful, but Scripture is clear that Jesus had a human mother and GOD was his father. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed, There is nowhere where it states Jesus is a hybrid.  Instead it is written that Jesus was made from a woman and is the heir of God and a son of his Spirit.  All of God's children are children of his Spirit. Hi Kerwin, The bible says we are “Son's of God” by the spirit of adoption. Jesus was *BORN* the “Son of God” …GOD's only begotten son. Our fathers were human, while Jesus' father was God.      (<– are you denying this) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Wakeup,

The son of God by adoption and the son of God by ordainment are different only in those who require being adopted have were as one time the children of sin.

It is written:

Ecclesiastes 7:29
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Jesus never went in search of inventions but instead stayed a child of God.

[terraricca]

j42

Quote

The Coptic translation produced a NEW RELIGION.  The Jehovah Witnesses.  A different gospel with the guise of being the same.  The Coptic translation condemns the fact that God made Jesus equal to himself, in the sense of having all knowlege and holiness, and power on this earth, given to him from God, and instead wants us to believe that Jesus is in fact equal to the angels, and claim Christ is an angel, so you see, it produced a “new doctrine”

can you show where Mike says all those things

and show that the kjv was not written by Anglican or to be fanatic priest ,what I have shown you it did ,but you disregard,like all what comes against you believe not the truth ,

and yes Jesus was an angel ;because the translation of that name means MESSENGER , but it also is used to point to heavenly spirit beings ,things it seems you do not want to see ,

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 28 2014,07:16)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2014,06:43) Hi ED, The prophets were clean vessels fit to be used of the Spirit of God. Their walk was according to the OT law. The new covenant is in the blood of Jesus Christ and we must be clothed in Christ through baptism.[gal3.27] We must be baptised into his death[Rom6] and raised in the Spirit[rom6] Hi Nick, Gal.3:27 says “baptized into Christ”, not baptized into water. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed.

You do realize one does not prevent the other from being true. Peter actually teaches that the two are linked. You do one and then are graced(gifted) with the other.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 28 2014,09:04)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2014,03:19) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 28 2014,03:09) Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 27 2014,12:52) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 27 2014,17:00) Journey, Jesus is not a half-God.  The Greek polytheistic religion had plenty of half-god's and they had no trouble making that clear to their hearers and yet not one word in Scripture about Jesus being a half-God. Kerwin Jesus was 100% human, but his Father is God. It's that simple. Journey, Jesus was 100% human as for his flesh, soul, spirit but 100% son of God as for his Spirit. k WRONG ,THE SOUL CAN NOT BE KILLED BY ANYONE ELSE THAN GOD ;SCRIPTURES SAY SO , SO THE SOUL OF JESUS WAS THE SAME IN HEAVEN THAN ON EARTH AS IT BECAME FLESH T, If Jesus' soul was anything other than human he would not have been a human.  If you take the soul of a rabbit and place in a human body you have a rabbit in a human body.  If God were to place his soul in a human body then he would still be God and not a human being.

K

you are mixing up ;a rabbit soul will always be a rabbit ,

but the soul of a spirit being is the same as the spirit being of a man except that men as been corrupt and so lost his shine ,

remember what scriptures says ;Ge 3:22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us,(could a rabbit ever dream to become like one of us )

was it not the soul or was it the flesh or was it

[journey42]

Quote

Yeah, but of WHAT were they created?  Did there exist other things at that time that God made them OUT OF?

Mike this is what you do, only put in half of my answer.
This is what I said.

God spoke and they were created.
With his wisdom he designed them,
and with his WORD he commanded them into existence,
just like he made everything else that exists.

The angels were created spirit.  Heavenly creatures.

Quote

Or was there only God and His Word at that time?

 
Yes, before creation started, we know this because everything was created through his Word, and that includes the host of heaven, the angels.  So before creation, there was just God and His Word beside him ready to start creating everything together.

Quote

If the latter, then those other spirit sons of God were made out of the same exact thing the firstborn spirit Son of God was made of:  God Himself.

No.  This is where your mind has crossed a wire.
The “FIRSTBORN SPIRIT SON” was the “FIRSTBORN OF THE DEAD”.  First to be resurrected from flesh to spirit.
Died flesh, rose to Spirit.  FIRSTBORN OF THE DEAD.
Not FIRSTBORN IN HEAVEN.  
The WORD was never born, or created,  but was always there, whether inside God or out beside him.  

[journey42]

Quote

Think it out……. if there was nothing BUT God, then those other spirit sons have as much claim to being made “from  God” as that firstborn Son does.

I hope you understand this much clearer now, that this question is based on what you perceived wrongly “the Firstborn” as really meaning.  Now you know it means, “Firstborn of the DEAD”. – FIRST RESURRECTED.

Colossians 1:18   And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Quote

Was he inside of God as a living, breathing BEING before God brought him out?

The Word was God Mike, before God brought him out.
There was just God with his Word INSIDE HIM.
THERE WAS ONE.

Quote

If not, then once again, those other spirit sons of God could equally say they (the stuff they're made of) were inside God before God brought them out.

They were never inside God, and the scriptures do not ever say that.  They were made.

Isaiah 45:12   I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Isaiah 54:16   Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Does it say that his chief angel came out of God?
or does it say that he was created?
You decide for yourself.

Ezekiel 28:13   Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created

 

Quote

The scriptural teaching is that Jesus was created FIRST, and then all other things were subsequently created THROUGH him.  Many try to ignore this teaching, because it doesn't align with their personal wishes for what Jesus should have been – or with their favorite English translation.

I hope this is cleared up now for you.

[journey42]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2014,14:14)

can you show where Mike says all those things and show that the kjv was not written by Anglican or to be  fanatic priest ,what I have shown you it did ,but you disregard,like all what comes against you believe not the truth , and yes Jesus was an angel ;because the translation of that name means MESSENGER , but it also is used to point to heavenly spirit beings ,things it seems you do not want to see ,

Pierre

You might want to read my answer to Mike first, before you start bombarding me with your outstanding wisdom.

[terraricca]

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 28 2014,09:54)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2014,14:14) can you show where Mike says all those things and show that the kjv was not written by Anglican or to be  fanatic priest ,what I have shown you it did ,but you disregard,like all what comes against you believe not the truth , and yes Jesus was an angel ;because the translation of that name means MESSENGER , but it also is used to point to heavenly spirit beings ,things it seems you do not want to see , Pierre You might want to read my answer to Mike first, before you start bombarding me with your outstanding wisdom.

J42

Make me see what I do not see

[journey42]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2014,15:43)

journey42,Mar. wrote: [quote=terraricca,Mar. 28 2014,14:14]can you show where Mike says all those things and show that the kjv was not written by Anglican or to be  fanatic priest ,what I have shown you it did ,but you disregard,like all what comes against you believe not the truth , J42 Make me see what I do not see

Pierre

I've been trying to do that for two years now.
I cannot make you see anything,
you have made your own choice,
so stick with it.

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2014,13:18)

Hi ED, Quite so. Baptism is the new circumcision. col 2.9f Circumcision was very important to the jews but you think baptism is not relevant for followers of Jesus Christ?

Hi Nick,

Let me explain a little more clearly.

Point  #1: “Water Baptism” symbolizes death to the law, which was
required of all Israel (not just Jews) to follow Christ apart from the law.

Point #2: Gentiles hearing the good news of the Gospel were
“Baptized” with God's HolySpirit without being water baptized.

Point #3: The Apostle Paul declares: “I thank God that I baptized none of you…
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of
words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.”  (1 Cor 1:14…17)

Baptizing in Jesus' name is: Baptizing with God's HolySpirit; not water baptizing.
When we are fully immersed in the water of God's word, we are able to
kill 'ego eimi' – thus carrying our own crosses while following Jesus Christ.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi Ed,
Paul baptised.
But he was more useful to God preaching so the easy job was left to others.

Cornelius was baptised in the Spirit by the choice of God but Peter immediately instructed that he be baptised in water

Are you greater than Peter or Paul?

Baptism is a requirement of God but unpopular with men.

[NickHassan]

Hi ED
“Water Baptism” symbolizes death to the law”
Scripture please.

[Ed J]

Hi Nick,

Did the Apostle Paul (Shaool) stop water baptizing?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2014,16:57)

Hi ED “Water Baptism” symbolizes death to the law” Scripture please.

“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ (symbolized by water baptism);
 that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead (Christ),
 that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”  (Romans 7:4)

Dead to the law, and raised to newness in life.

[Author]

Posts