JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 14 2014,07:54)

Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 12 2014,20:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 13 2014,10:07) Before creation, there was only the soon-to-be Creator. There was only Jehovah God at first. This is when John said: And the *WORD WAS GOD*. So you agree that there was ONLY God at first? There was no separate “word” who was with God at first, right?

Mike B.

1.**Before creation** started there was only God.
John said:(and the Word was God).
God and his word, and the holyspirit,and wisdom,and
love,patience ,mercy:all in God. *His spirit flesh*.God and
all His powers in Him.God's basic ingredients.
One complete God being.

2.One is born complete; with word,mind, will,desires,
choices; love, hate,mercy,or no mercy,taste,
loving or hating. All this in *one* person;not many persons.

3.This person's word is not another person.This person's
mind is not another person.This person's love is not
another person. **This person's word is not *A* second
person**.

4.This is what you are saying about God; that His Word
must be *another* God.Therefore *A* God.
And you keep on *insisting* this over and over again.

wakeup.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2014,01:45)

Hi, “there is one Spirit” is the overarching fact. Scripture speaks of another counsellor, says WE will come to you and shows the multitude of facets within the Spirit. But there is ONE SPIRIT[1cor12]

Nick,

Have you considered that Jesus received the Spirit as Counselor before he was born but when he was immersed he was given another facet of the Spirit.

I think it is only after his immersion that he is recorded as doing miracles.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Should we speculate?

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2014,11:03)

Hi KW, Should we speculate?

Nick,

Speculation itself is vain but the teaching about the resurrection is only derived from the Old Testament by the application of reasoning such as Jesus used with the Sadducees. In using reason Jesus was not speculating.

A similar application of reasoning shows us only those who live by the Spirit reveal the fruit of righteousness and Jesus has always bore that fruit.  Since that is the case then he lived by the Spirit and not by the flesh even before he was immersed in the Jordan.  There is no way to live by the Spirit if you have not yet received the Spirit in its facet of Councilor.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
We know of a few hours of his life before the baptisms and you speculate he was already anointed?
God, his father, was with him.

[Wakeup]

1.The Word was anointed to become flesh.
2.Jesus has the Holy spirit since conception.
3.The Holy Spirit appearing as a dove was only a sign
for John; that he is truly the man.

wakeup.

[NickHassan]

Hi WU,
The Word was anointed?
Had the Spirit since conception?
Do you have your father's spirit?

Just a sign for John? that is not what scripture says

[Wakeup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2014,18:25)

Hi WU, The Word was anointed? Had the Spirit since conception? Do you have your father's spirit? Just a sign for John? that is not what scripture says

Nick.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:
***for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost***.

wakeup.

[NickHassan]

Hi WU,
Yes God was his father
But you said he was anointed by the Spirit at conception

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2014,12:21)

Hi KW, We know of a few hours of his life before the baptisms and you speculate he was already anointed? God, his father, was with him.

Nick,

You really should learn the meaning of words before you use them.  Speculate means “form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence.”  I looked it up on google,  I already presented evidence that should be enough for anyone familiar with Scripture.  Perhaps I was mistaken and you do not know it or understanding it as good as I thought.

We know Jesus never sinned though he was tempted as is common to man.  We also know that the only way not to sin is to live by the Spirit.  Those two pieces of information when combined teach us Jesus always walked by the spirit.  

There are only two possibilities 1) Jesus did not have the Spirit and so walked by the flesh and so sinned prior to being immersed or 2) Jesus walked by the Spirit and so had it and did not sin.

God walks by the Spirit.

[Wakeup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2014,19:27)

Hi WU, Yes God was his father But you said he was anointed by the Spirit at conception

Nick.

The Holy Spirit is always in the Word.
The Spirit of truth is always in the Word.
Jesus is the Word made flesh,therefore the Holy Spirit
is in Him.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, *the Spirit of truth*, is come, he will guide you into all truth:
*for he shall not speak of himself*;
but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 16:14 ***He shall glorify me***:
**for he shall receive of mine**, and shall shew it unto you.

wakeup.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 14 2014,08:04)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 13 2014,07:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 13 2014,10:15) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 12 2014,07:52) wallace said Christ is God and you dont agree with that. Wallace sensibly taught us that the construction of John 1:1 keeps us from identifying the Word with God.  His teaching is also supported by the 25 Trinitarian scholars from NETNotes. 1.  There exists only one Most High God, jammin.  Do you agree with that?  YES or NO? 2.  In the beginning, the Word was with that one Most High God.  Do you agree with that?  YES or NO? but before i discuss that further, i do agree with all the statements of wallace. how about you? wallace said Christ is God. do you agree? In the very first post I made after you quoted Wallace, I told you very plainly that I agree 100% with him that John wrote 1:1 in such a way as to keep anyone from identifying the Word with God. And in that same post, I also told you that it was beyond me how the same guy who so brilliantly laid out that first part could then conclude that the Word WAS God. I told you that his final conclusion went AGAINST the very words he himself had just written. Do you remember any of this?  Apparently not, so I will say once again:  NO jammin, I do NOT agree with Wallace's conclusion that Christ is God. Now, there are two very simple questions I asked you in my last post.  I have supersized those questions in the quote box above.  Please answer them honestly and directly.

1. if you are talking about the God the father then YES. 1 GOD THE FATHER WHO IS ALMIGHTY.
but THE SON is also GOD. he is GOD THE ONLY SON and as being GOD, he is ALMIGHTY.
GOD BY NATURE IS ALMIGHTY.
do you understand that? MAN BY NATURE IS NOT ALMIGHTY.

2.YES but remember that john also said that the WORD WAS GOD. THIS IS A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE WHY THE WORD (CHRIST) WAS GOD and not a god.

to make it simple

in the beginning was the Word. the Word was with God (father) and the Word was God (referring to the nature).

do i have proof that the Word God in the last part of the verse is referring to the NATURE?

BNT john 1.1
When the world began, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and the nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God.

what about your belief? you believe that Christ is a god and that john 1.1 should be translated as the Word was a god.

let me post what barclay said about NWT.

Barclay: Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar of the University of Glasgow, Scotland: “The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect is seen in their New testament translations. John 1:1 is translated: '…the Word was a god, ' a translation which is grammatically impossible…It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest.”

poor mike. you have no idea about the greek grammar. i suggest you go to school and study more about the greek language.

[jammin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 14 2014,01:42)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 14 2014,00:47) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 14 2014,00:43) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2014,02:48) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 10 2014,19:44) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 08 2014,10:37) Jammin, If you are a believer and your spirit exists in the form of man then you will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. i am a believer. i do exist in the form of man. what about you? what is your form? are you not MAN by nature? yes or no? Jammin, Are you confessing to be a mere man, a man without the Spirit of God.  Or do you not understand that the Spirit forms your new self like God in true righteousness and holiness and so your spirit is renewed in his likeness, Ephesians 4:24? Kerwin……….Your are right those who have the Spirit of God are “NOW” Sons of God and they have the Nature of God in them, Just as Jesus did. John said, as He was in the world so are we (true believers), that is. This never ending teaching of making Jesus different then we are is of the synagogues of Satan himself, and most all of “so-called” Christendom follows it. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene do you understand the meaning of nature of God? do you know the nature of God? no verse that says MAN HAS NATURE OF GOD> make your own bible hahahha Jammin………… 1 John 4:15-16….> Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwell “IN” him and he “IN” GOD. (16) And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love and he that dwell in love dwells in God, and God “IN” HIM. 1 John 4:17…> Herein is our love made “PERFECT”, that we may have Boldness in the day of judgement: because as “HE IS”, SO ARE “WE” IN “THIS” WORLD. So i ask, do (true believers) also dwell in this World as God and Jesus did, or not?  Do we also have the very nature of God “IN” us, as Jesus did, by virtue  of Gods Holy Spirit that abides in us (true believers) that is. Your doctrines of “SEPARATION” of Jesus from his human brothers and sisters, is not of God or Jesus, but of the Synagogues of Satan himself. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene

any verse that says MAN HAS THE NATURE OF GOD?

verse pls. i dont need your explanation boy

[jammin]

kerwin,
no verse that tells us that MAN HAS NATURE OF GOD.

[GeneBalthrop]

wakeup……..Spirit produces words, words are from Spirit within a person. Words are not “SEPARATE” FROM SPIRIT. Spirit causes us to “utter its intellects” You can not separate the Spirit from the words it produces. God is a SPIRIT and HIS word are from that SPIRIT of GOD , The LORD our GOD is a SPIRIT who Brings form His WORDS in US. God the FATHER who “IS” SPIRIT entered JESUS at His Baptism in the JORDAN and there Jesus became a SON of GOD.  

While God was with Jesus and even caused him to come into existence by his Berth, as a human being, he was never in him until his baptism and there God the FATHER came to dwell “IN” him, Just as scripture say, God in time past  spoke to us in different way through the Prophets but in these latter day has spoken to us through a SON God was indeed “IN” Jesus just as Jesus said He was, but none of that makes Jesus a GOD or a DIVINE Being “HIMSELF”.

Wakeup you put forth some things but no specific scriptures support , Mike does the same thing, he uses Human reason to force the text to say what in fact they do not “SPECIFICALLY” Say> That is called Speculation at best brother. If you want us to believe Jesus was Anointed before the Jordan River or at berth then produce the scriptures that clearly say that. Nick is right on this Wakeup. IMO

peace and lvoe to you and yours……………………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 15 2014,01:29)

kerwin, no verse that tells us that MAN HAS NATURE OF GOD.

Jammin…….What about the scriptures I quoted to you from John, what do they say to you. as He was in the world so are we How could we be like him without Gods Nature in us?

Because you believe in a Doctrine that SEPARATES Jesus' human Identity, from his Brothers and Sisters, you can not except the truth that Jesus,was an ordinary human being,who came to have that divine Nature of God “IN” him, the same way we can.

You have brought into the big LIE fostered on Mankind from the synagogues of Satan himself. The DOCTRINE OF SEPARATION which is at work, “in the children of disobedience”. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

[Wakeup]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 15 2014,01:34)

wakeup……..Spirit produces words, words are from Spirit within a person. Words are not “SEPARATE” FROM SPIRIT. Spirit causes us to “utter its intellects” You can not separate the Spirit from the words it produces. God is a SPIRIT and HIS word are from that SPIRIT of GOD , The LORD our GOD is a SPIRIT who Brings form His WORDS in US. God the FATHER who “IS” SPIRIT entered JESUS at His Baptism in the JORDAN and there Jesus became a SON of GOD.   While God was with Jesus and even caused him to come into existence by his Berth, as a human being, he was never in him until his baptism and there God the FATHER came to dwell “IN” him, Just as scripture say, God in time past  spoke to us in different way through the Prophets but in these latter day has spoken to us through a SON God was indeed “IN” Jesus just as Jesus said He was, but not of that makes Jesus a GOD or a DIVINE Being HIMSELF. Wakeup you put forth some things but no specific scriptures support , Mike does the same thin he uses Human reason to force the text to say what in fact they do not “SPECIFICALLY” Say> That is called Speculation at best brother. If you want us to believe Jesus was Anointed before the Jordan River or at berth then produce the scriptures that clearly say that. Nick is right on this Wakeup. IMO peace and lvoe to you and yours……………………………….gene

Gene B.

Scripture:
Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:
***for that which is conceived in her is of the HolyGhost***.

And you say he has not the Holy Spirit before His baptism?
Please explain.

Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost.
Because the Holy Spirit is always in the Word;and Jesus *is the Word*. And the Holy Spirit will glorify Him.(john 16).

Unless you believe that Jesus is *NOT* the Word of God.

When Jesus was 12 yrs old He already started to debate
the scribes in the synagogue.

The Word was *with* God during creation days.
The Word *was* God before creation.

The dove is just a sign for John; that He/Jesus is the
the Messiah.

Are you saying that Jesus is not devine?
Is the Word of God that created all things NOT devine?
Did God create the man Jesus, or did God transformed His Word into flesh?

wakeup.

[NickHassan]

Hi WU,
“Logic” like that led the catholics to worship Mary as the mother of God.

Or do you say Mary was only a surrogate?
Jesus said she was his mother

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 14 2014,20:29)

kerwin, no verse that tells us that MAN HAS NATURE OF GOD.

Jammin,

Since you have not answered my question about whether God has a divine nature I am assuming you are afraid it will compromise your position. My question is why do you choose to take a position that you feel can be compromised that easily?

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2014,01:02)

Hi WU, “Logic” like that led the catholics to worship Mary as the mother of God. Or do you say Mary was only a surrogate? Jesus said she was his mother

Nick,

Flawed logic is no logic but is instead illogical. I believe that tenet is rather recent. Trinitarians tend to agree with you about logic as they say about the trinity:

Quote

In Christian tradition the Trinity is a mystery of faith revealed in scripture, historically being deemed unknowable by unaided human reason and not capable of logical demonstration once revealed, being above reason without being incompatible with the principles of rational thought.[

Jesus on the other hand declares Scripture cannot no be broken when he used logical reasoning.

[Author]

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