JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 04 2014,15:23)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2014,00:01) John 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. Who is the “HIM” that I supersized? Mike, Scripture distinguishing “Word” from “Light' by using two different words and telling those that have ears to hear that the Light is in the Word.

Kerwin,

God IS light, for IN HIM there is no darkness at all.

Basically, this is telling us that nothing but light is IN God, and at the same time, God IS light.

So a distinction like the one you're touting isn't necessarily a distinction at all.  The Word could both BE the light that came into the world……. AND….. be the one IN WHOM is the light of the world.

We have already discussed this point before, and you agreed with me on it….. remember?

Now listen:

The light of the world was coming into the world.  Who is “the light of the world”, Kerwin?

The Word became flesh, at which time he dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.
Who is God's only begotten Son, Kerwin?

The world was made through this “light” (verse 10)……. AND the world was made through “the Word” (verse 3).  
Through whom was the world made, Kerwin?

The light of the world came to that which was his own.
How could the world belong TO the “light” – unless of course the world was made FOR the “light”?  And we all know exactly who all things were made FOR, right?

You purposely make this EASY teaching confusing – just because you don't WANT to accept the easy and logical understanding of the clear words.

But I'll walk you through it once more.  I have started a new thread, for only the two of us.  Look for “The Word  – For Kerwin and Mike ONLY”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 04 2014,13:26)

If the Word of God was not a being,then who is this? Can you explain using your precept? Revelation 19:12   His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. Revelation 19:13   And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Wakeup,

When have I ever said the Word of God is not a being?  

Of course the Word of God is Jesus, God's firstborn Son.  So of course he is a being.

Where we disagree is that YOU believe this Son of God USED TO BE God Almighty Himself, and then STOPPED being God Almighty Himself when he became someone OTHER THAN God Almighty Himself.

And so far, I haven't been able to get a DIRECT and satisfactory answer from you about whether or not this Son of God is STILL somebody OTHER THAN God, or if the Son OF God actually IS the very God he is the Son OF.

Instead of explaining your understanding in clear words, you have been jumping back and forth, and talking about all kinds of other, unrelated things – like whether or not I think the Word of God is a being.

But all I really want to know is this:

Wakeup, do you believe Jesus, the Son OF God, actually IS God Almighty Himself?   Or do you believe the Son OF God is someone OTHER THAN God Almighty Himself?

WHICH ONE PLEASE?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 05 2014,18:05)

What does it mean to say that Jesus speaks and does the word?

It means there is more than one use of the word “logos” in the scriptures.

For example, the Word of the King of Abyssinia (The King's SPOKESMAN) speaks and does the word (instructions, commands, etc.) of the King of Abyssinia.

Once again, you KNOW this stuff, but would prefer to play word games.

Unless I'm wrong, and you DON'T know that my two uses of the word “word” in the above statement mean DIFFERENT things.

Do you?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 04 2014,15:39)

Mike, I am going to work back to verse 4 from verses 6-8

Instead, let's just work forward from verse 1 in the new thread I started just for that purpose.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 04 2014,20:49)

why cant these people accept that the Word is the title of Christ? jn 10.27 New International Version My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me

They are being willfully ignorant, jammin.  They know full well what we've been saying, and even see how easy it is for us to understand it the way we do.  And on top of that, they can't even REFUTE the way we understanding it without adding in their own words, twisting the meaning of the words, or writing their own Bible.

But they continue to do those last three things because they simply don't WANT the truth to BE the truth.  They have PERSONAL reasons for it not to be the truth, and will stop at nothing – even making themselves sound like lunatics – to keep if from being the truth.

It's really quite sad.

I've started a new thread for me and Kerwin only, in which I hope to pin King Kerwin down on a few points – without letting him run away and divert away from those points.

Time will tell if my plan works.

[jammin]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 06 2014,06:52)

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 05 2014,22:53) you are wrong wakeup. God's word is not the same as the Word of God? cant you see the capital W and small w letter? Word is proper noun. that is the name of Christ. word is common noun. do you know the difference between common and proper noun? let me give you a verse that will prove that the Word of God is a name of Christ. Revelation 19:13 King James Version (KJV) 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. did you see that? JOHN said his name is the Word of God. john also said that this Word (not word) was with God in the beginning and was God. you have to study further Jammin. Quote JOHN said his name is the Word of God. john also said that this Word (not word) was with God in the *beginning* and was God. I always Write Word of God with capital letters. God has *no beginning* as you say he also was the Word.  Revelation 19:13   And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name **is called** The Word of God. He is *called* the Word of God. The Word of God is not a name,just as the word God is not a name.God's name is YHWH. And the Word of God is GOD'S WORD. There can not be two names:YHWH, AND WORD OF GOD.AS A NAME. GOD IS THE ONE AND ONLY GOD.                          ********************* Revelation 19:12   His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and         **he *had* a name written, **that no man *knew**,             but he himself.  Luke 10:22   All things are delivered to me of my Father: and **no man knoweth who the Son is**, **but the Father**; **and who the Father is**, **but the Son**, **and he to whom the Son will reveal him**. HE *HAD* A NAME THAT *NO MAN *KNEW* Rev.19:12 is in harmony with luke 10:22.

you said the Word of God is not a name but according to john, that is the name of Christ.

let me post it again
NIV

rev 19.13
…His name is the Word of God.

make your own bible

[jammin]

wakeup,

go back to school and study proper and common noun

[jammin]

mike,

i think after you talk to kerwin, he will be forced to create his king kerwin version

[Wakeup]

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2014,03:57)

wakeup, go back to school and study proper and common noun

Jammin.

*HE HAD*(past tense), a name written that *NO MAN KNEW*.
KNEW=PAST TENSE. in harmony with(LUKE 10:22).

Learn How to conduct a good and sound dialoque with grown ups.
Name calling does not support your case.
Only scriptural back up will.

wakeup

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2014,07:26)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 04 2014,15:39) Mike, I am going to work back to verse 4 from verses 6-8 Instead, let's just work forward from verse 1 in the new thread I started just for that purpose.

Mike,

I worked backwards because Jesus said he was the light of the world in a way I figured you should comprehend what he meant. Once you understand that then the same principles apply to the word.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2014,07:24)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 05 2014,18:05) What does it mean to say that Jesus speaks and does the word? It means there is more than one use of the word “logos” in the scriptures. For example, the Word of the King of Abyssinia (The King's SPOKESMAN) speaks and does the word (instructions, commands, etc.) of the King of Abyssinia. Once again, you KNOW this stuff, but would prefer to play word games. Unless I'm wrong, and you DON'T know that my two uses of the word “word” in the above statement mean DIFFERENT things. Do you?

Mike,

It is not an answer to my question, which is basically what does Jesus do that God's word also does?

I can your difficulty as I find it is a hard message to put in words.

I think you have it to some point with your answer but in addition Jesus and the word of God both command angels and serve as a mediator between Jehovah and mankind.

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

The light of the world was coming into the world. Who is “the light of the world”, Kerwin

You seem to be avoiding addressing the use of different verb tenses which I attempted to address earlier. I choose to use the NIV instead of the AV of the KJV because they seem to be comparable and the later use archaic grammar that is hard to understand.

John 1:9-13
New International Version (NIV)

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

In verse 9 you have “coming”, in verse 10 is “was in”, and in verse 11 “he came”. These are three different tenses of verbs used at the same time in reference to light which makes me think the word light is speaking of three different expressions of the same light. It is not complicated if you understand it correctly.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 06 2014,16:14)

I think you have it to some point with your answer but in addition Jesus and the word of God both command angels and serve as a mediator between Jehovah and mankind.

Yes, God's high-ranking SPOKESMAN can give commands to angels.  That is ONE use of the word “logos” – as the TITLE of God's main SPOKESMAN.

As far as God's literal spoken words commanding angels, it is more of a metaphoric use.  As in, “We obey the word of God”.

In the first use, the Word is actually a living entity, separate from God Himself.  (That use would equate with Kal Hatze, the Word of the King of Abyssinia.)

As for the latter use, obeying the “word” of God does NOT mean God's literal commands are living entities, who go about ordering angels around.  It is a metaphorical way of saying the angels obey what GOD told them to do.  They are not literally obeying His WORDS – but obeying HIM.  (That would equate with Kal Hatze obeying the words of the king, ie: doing what the king told him to do.  See?  The Word of the King of Abyssinia obeys the word of the King of Abyssinia.  Get it?  Can you spot the difference in meaning between “Word” and “word” in that last sentence?)

[mikeboll64]

Kerwin,

We'll get to the rest of the stuff you wrote in the private thread.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 07 2014,08:52)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 06 2014,16:14) I think you have it to some point with your answer but in addition Jesus and the word of God both command angels and serve as a mediator between Jehovah and mankind. Yes, God's high-ranking SPOKESMAN can give commands to angels.  That is ONE use of the word “logos” – as the TITLE of God's main SPOKESMAN. As far as God's literal spoken words commanding angels, it is more of a metaphoric use.  As in, “We obey the word of God”. In the first use, the Word is actually a living entity, separate from God Himself.  (That use would equate with Kal Hatze, the Word of the King of Abyssinia.) As for the latter use, obeying the “word” of God does NOT mean God's literal commands are living entities, who go about ordering angels around.  It is a metaphorical way of saying the angels obey what GOD told them to do.  They are not literally obeying His WORDS – but obeying HIM.  (That would equate with Kal Hatze obeying the words of the king, ie: doing what the king told him to do.  See?  The Word of the King of Abyssinia obeys the word of the King of Abyssinia.  Get it?  Can you spot the difference in meaning between “Word” and “word” in that last sentence?)

Mike,

Yes, I hear.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 06 2014,21:41)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 07 2014,08:52) The Word of the King of Abyssinia obeys the word of the King of Abyssinia. Can you spot the difference in meaning between “Word” and “word” in that last sentence?) Mike, Yes, I hear.

Amen, and God bless.

[terraricca]

k

Quote

What does it mean to say that Jesus speaks and does the word?

speaks the word; he is given instructions to those that are given to him,

does the word ; this means, he accomplishes all the prophecies written about him,the son of God and the messiah and fulfill those written words ,

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 08 2014,10:35)

k Quote What does it mean to say that Jesus speaks and does the word? speaks the word; he is given instructions to those that are given to him, does the word ; this means, he accomplishes all the prophecies written about him,the son of God and the messiah and fulfill those written words ,

T,

What you wrote sounds good. I did word my question poorly as what I was looking for it that Jesus does the same thing God's word does.

[jammin]

wakeup,

why did you post luke 10

im not saying luke 10. i said rev 19.13

rev 19.13
…His name is the Word of God.

do you understand that?

you said the Word of God is not a name of Christ. well, rev 19.13 says yes! that is a name of Christ and you are definitely wrong about it

[Wakeup]

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 08 2014,21:07)

wakeup, why did you post luke 10 im not saying luke 10. i said rev 19.13 rev 19.13 …His name is the Word of God. do you understand that? you said the Word of God is not a name of Christ. well, rev 19.13 says yes! that is a name of Christ and you are definitely wrong about it

Jammin.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he **had** a name written, that no man **knew**, but he himself.

HAD=PAST TENSE. KNEW=PAST TENSE.

We know his name was Jesus,but we dont really know him,
and also The father.
This corresponds with Jesus words in Luke 10:22.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

THE WORD OF GOD;MEANING THE WORD OF YHWH.
HE WILL COME AS THE WORD OF GOD.
*HIS NAME IS CALLED*

JAMMIN; WHAT IS THE NAME OF YOUR WORD?

wakeup.

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