JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2013,11:17)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 06 2013,19:01) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Okay, now we're getting nearer to clearer.   1.  Are you telling me that a SAYING of God was both with God and was God in the beginning?   2.  Are you telling me that a SAYING of God actually became a flesh and blood man, who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?   3.  Are you telling me that it is a SAYING of God who will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes? What I am saying that the prophecy pertaining to the Messiah whom we now know to be Jesus became a reality when Jesus was born into this world, and it is through his word that God has revealed to humanity that He is a spirit of love.  This is God: “For God so loved the world that he gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.  For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved”. I want YES or NO answers to all three, Marty.

no, no & no

[942767]

Hi Wakeup:

Yes, God spoke through Elijah, he was a prophet, and He spoke through John the Baptist of whom it was said by Jesus that he was Elijah who was to come as a forerunner to his ministry, meaning that John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah, and right God spoke through Jesus just as he did through any prophet, but no prophet other than Jesus obeyed God without sin unto death on the cross, but no, Jesus is not the creator. God created all things by him and for him, meaning that it would be through Jesus his plan for humanity would be fulfilled, and he is God's heir, but no, he said that he could do nothing of himself, and he said that it was the Father doing the works through him.

And the Word is not the “image of God”. The Word is God because it defines His character, and His Word originates from him. The way that any man can become like God in the spirit is to obey his Word in one's daily life. And this is the way that Jesus became “the express image of God's person”. So, through his life we have seen God's character manifest to humanity, but he is not the origin of the Word.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2013,19:51)

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 08 2013,12:43) John 1:1 Contemporary English Version (CEV) The Word of Life 1 In the beginning was the one   who is called the Word. The Word was with God    and was truly God. 14 The Word became a human being    and lived here with us. We saw his true glory, the glory of the only Son    of the Father. From him all the kindness and all the truth of God    have come down to us. i answered your question. Jesus is called the Word before he became human. now answer mine, who is the Word in rev 19.13? 1. jesus 2. kerwin choose one boy Jammin, This is what wikipedia states about the CEV: Quote Moreover, the CEV often paraphrases in order to make the underlying point of a passage clear, rather than directly translating the wording. This introduces a greater chance of error due to bias than direct translation as the translator is interpreting their perception of the idea of the whole of what they are paraphrasing rather than just one word. The sum of your claim is since the translators believe it  must  be translated and interpreted this way then it must be true.   My answer is that I do not find them creditable and I am asking for a creditable source to support your claim. As far as I know, by the time Revelations 19:13 rolls around we both agree that Jesus is called by the name of the word.  I have been telling you but you act as if we disagree.  Our disagreement is when he was first called by the name of the word.

that is just an opinion of wikipedia.
cev is not the only one who says that the Word in john 1.1 is Christ.

commentaries also said that and bible versions.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

In the beginning was the word,…. That this is said not of the written word, but of the essential word of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, is clear, from all that is said from hence, to John 1:14 as that this word was in the beginning, was with God, and is God;

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

1:1-5 The plainest reason why the Son of God is called the Word, seems to be, that as our words explain our minds to others, so was the Son of God sent in order to reveal his Father's mind to the world.

John 1:1

New Life Version (NLV)
Christ Lived Before the World Was Made

1 The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God.

i gave you word for word kerwin and explanation from commentaries but you dont want to accept it. you are still proclaiming the bad news.
the sheep of Christ hears his voice and you are not of them

[Wakeup]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 09 2013,11:33)

Hi Wakeup: Yes, God spoke through Elijah, he was a prophet, and He spoke through John the Baptist of whom it was said by Jesus that he was Elijah who was to come as a forerunner to his ministry, meaning that John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah, and right God spoke through Jesus just as he did through any prophet, but no prophet other than Jesus obeyed God without sin unto death on the cross, but no, Jesus is not the creator.  God created all things by him and for him, meaning that it would be through Jesus his plan for humanity would be fulfilled, and he is God's heir, but no, he said that he could do nothing of himself, and he said that it was the Father doing the works through him. And the Word is not the “image of God”.  The Word is God because it defines His character, and His Word originates from him.  The way that any man can become like God in the spirit is to obey his Word in one's daily life.   And this is the way that Jesus became “the express image of God's person”.  So, through his life we have seen God's character manifest to humanity, but he is not the origin of the Word. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty.

God spoke *TO* the prophets.

Jeremiah 1:4 Then the word of the LORD *came unto me*, saying,
Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Jeremiah 1:6 **Then said I**, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. (a verbal conversation).

Colossians 1:15 Who is ***the image*** of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

quote:
The Word of God originates from God.
I agree with this.

Only Jesus is the *Word of God*
God spoke through him;in his mind.

wakeup.

[942767]

Hi Wakeup:

The scriptures that you quote from Jeremiah is God speaking to Jeremiah, but God spoke to the nation of Israel through Jeremiah warning them of the impending judgment to come if they did not repent.  

You say that Only Jesus is the Word of God?  The scripture in Hebrews 1 would surely disagree with you on this assessment, and Jesus is God's spokesman if God spoke through him, but God also spoke through the prophets, and so they also were God's spokesmen, but he, Jesus, is the “express image of God's person” because he obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross, and so, he became the “image of God” through the application of God's Word in his daily living, and so, in that sense he is the Word of God, but he was not the “Word” in John 1, that “life giving spirit” was formed within him through obedience to God's Word.

The Word pertains to him in John 1, and the Word is God in John 1c because it is through His Word that God reveals his character, and he gave us Jesus in order to reconcile us unto Himself, but Jesus had to be born into this world and become the express image of his person.  He was born an infant man child, and at the age of 12 we get a glimpse of him learning the Word of God and discussing the Word with the scribes in the synagogue, and then being anointed for his ministry to humanity at the age of 30, and then successfully obeying God without sin unto death on the cross.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 08 2013,18:09)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2013,11:17) 1.  Are you telling me that a SAYING of God was both with God and was God in the beginning?   2.  Are you telling me that a SAYING of God actually became a flesh and blood man, who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?   3.  Are you telling me that it is a SAYING of God who will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes? no, no & no

Hmmmmmm…………..

Your “NO” answers don't align with this following quote of what you said on page 1002:

“I don't know what you don't understand about the Word of God were the sayings of God. “

Please explain.

[Wakeup]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 10 2013,03:55)

Hi Wakeup: The scriptures that you quote from Jeremiah is God speaking to Jeremiah, but God spoke to the nation of Israel through Jeremiah warning them of the impending judgment to come if they did not repent.   You say that Only Jesus is the Word of God?  The scripture in Hebrews 1 would surely disagree with you on this assessment, and Jesus is God's spokesman if God spoke through him, but God also spoke through the prophets, and so they also were God's spokesmen, but he, Jesus, is the “express image of God's person” because he obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross, and so, he became the “image of God” through the application of God's Word in his daily living, and so, in that sense he is the Word of God, but he was not the “Word” in John 1, that “life giving spirit” was formed within him through obedience to God's Word. The Word pertains to him in John 1, and the Word is God in John 1c because it is through His Word that God reveals his character, and he gave us Jesus in order to reconcile us unto Himself, but Jesus had to be born into this world and become the express image of his person.  He was born an infant man child, and at the age of 12 we get a glimpse of him learning the Word of God and discussing the Word with the scribes in the synagogue, and then being anointed for his ministry to humanity at the age of 30, and then successfully obeying God without sin unto death on the cross. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty.

That only means that there is *God and his spokesman*
in heaven. Two different entities.This can not be.

BESIDE ME;THERE IS NO SAVIOUR.
BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD.
GOD IS BY HIMSELF,AND HIS WORD/BREATH, IN HIM.

1.The Word made all that is made.
2.Jesus made all that is made.
3.A spokesman can not give life,
and was not the tree of life in the garden.
4.The spokesman can not be the breath of God.
5. Psalms 33:6 By the WORD of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them
***by the BREATH OF HIS MOUTH***.
6.God's breath was always in him from everlasting.

Jesus is the WORD OF GOD(BREATH) MADE FLESH.
I created all things by *MY SELF*.

And so is the Holy bible: the WORD OF GOD *IN PRINT*.
To come to God;we need to go
**THROUH THE SCRIPTURES**ONLY;
can not come to God through some other means.

wakeup.

[942767]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 10 2013,13:40)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 10 2013,03:55) Hi Wakeup: The scriptures that you quote from Jeremiah is God speaking to Jeremiah, but God spoke to the nation of Israel through Jeremiah warning them of the impending judgment to come if they did not repent.   You say that Only Jesus is the Word of God?  The scripture in Hebrews 1 would surely disagree with you on this assessment, and Jesus is God's spokesman if God spoke through him, but God also spoke through the prophets, and so they also were God's spokesmen, but he, Jesus, is the “express image of God's person” because he obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross, and so, he became the “image of God” through the application of God's Word in his daily living, and so, in that sense he is the Word of God, but he was not the “Word” in John 1, that “life giving spirit” was formed within him through obedience to God's Word. The Word pertains to him in John 1, and the Word is God in John 1c because it is through His Word that God reveals his character, and he gave us Jesus in order to reconcile us unto Himself, but Jesus had to be born into this world and become the express image of his person.  He was born an infant man child, and at the age of 12 we get a glimpse of him learning the Word of God and discussing the Word with the scribes in the synagogue, and then being anointed for his ministry to humanity at the age of 30, and then successfully obeying God without sin unto death on the cross. Love in Christ, Marty Marty. That only means that there is *God and his spokesman* in heaven. Two different entities.This can not be. BESIDE ME;THERE IS NO SAVIOUR. BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD. GOD IS BY HIMSELF,AND HIS WORD/BREATH, IN HIM. 1.The Word made all that is made. 2.Jesus made all that is made. 3.A spokesman can not give life,   and was not the tree of life in the garden. 4.The spokesman can not be the breath of God. 5. Psalms 33:6   By the WORD of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them ***by the BREATH OF HIS MOUTH***. 6.God's breath was always in him from everlasting. Jesus is the WORD OF GOD(BREATH) MADE FLESH. I created all things by *MY SELF*. And so is the Holy bible: the WORD OF GOD *IN PRINT*. To come to God;we need to go **THROUH THE SCRIPTURES**ONLY; can not come to God through some other means. wakeup.

No Wakeup, Jesus is not the creator. God created everything by His Word. And yes besides him there is no savior. He is the one that gave us His Only Begotten Son.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[kerwin]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 09 2013,03:56)

Kerwin. The wikipedia has not been revealed by the Holy Spirit all the mysteries. No man knows the son but the Father,and no man knows the Father but the son; AND HE TO WHOM THE SON WILL REVEAL HIM. What is the name of your word?? wakeup.

Wakeup,

I was not using wikipedia for those maters, I was using it to point out that the CEV creditability is more questionable than word for word translations.

The name of the word is word. The word's name is above every other name and Jesus has inherited it.

That is both why they word was made flesh and Jesus inherited a name that is above every other name.

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 09 2013,07:25)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2013,19:51) Quote (jammin @ Oct. 08 2013,12:43) John 1:1 Contemporary English Version (CEV) The Word of Life 1 In the beginning was the one   who is called the Word. The Word was with God    and was truly God. 14 The Word became a human being    and lived here with us. We saw his true glory, the glory of the only Son    of the Father. From him all the kindness and all the truth of God    have come down to us. i answered your question. Jesus is called the Word before he became human. now answer mine, who is the Word in rev 19.13? 1. jesus 2. kerwin choose one boy Jammin, This is what wikipedia states about the CEV: Quote Moreover, the CEV often paraphrases in order to make the underlying point of a passage clear, rather than directly translating the wording. This introduces a greater chance of error due to bias than direct translation as the translator is interpreting their perception of the idea of the whole of what they are paraphrasing rather than just one word. The sum of your claim is since the translators believe it  must  be translated and interpreted this way then it must be true.   My answer is that I do not find them creditable and I am asking for a creditable source to support your claim. As far as I know, by the time Revelations 19:13 rolls around we both agree that Jesus is called by the name of the word.  I have been telling you but you act as if we disagree.  Our disagreement is when he was first called by the name of the word. that is just an opinion of wikipedia. cev is not the only one who says that the Word in john 1.1 is Christ. commentaries also said that and bible versions. Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible In the beginning was the word,…. That this is said not of the written word, but of the essential word of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, is clear, from all that is said from hence, to John 1:14 as that this word was in the beginning, was with God, and is God; Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary 1:1-5 The plainest reason why the Son of God is called the Word, seems to be, that as our words explain our minds to others, so was the Son of God sent in order to reveal his Father's mind to the world. John 1:1 New Life Version (NLV) Christ Lived Before the World Was Made 1 The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God. i gave you word for word kerwin and explanation from commentaries but you dont want to accept it. you are still proclaiming the bad news. the sheep of Christ hears his voice and you are not of them

Jammin,

There are men that have the opinion that the word is John is the name of Christ. These men can be translators or those who comment on the meaning of Scripture. In the case of the New Life Version the () tell you it is a comment. It is not in Koine Greek which is deemed to be the original language and so the comment must be the translators. I do not view either or the commentators you quoted as writing scripture.

I am looking fore actual Scripture that reveals Jesus was the word before he was conceived in Mary's inner parts.

[Wakeup]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 11 2013,02:39)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 10 2013,13:40) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 10 2013,03:55) Hi Wakeup: The scriptures that you quote from Jeremiah is God speaking to Jeremiah, but God spoke to the nation of Israel through Jeremiah warning them of the impending judgment to come if they did not repent.   You say that Only Jesus is the Word of God?  The scripture in Hebrews 1 would surely disagree with you on this assessment, and Jesus is God's spokesman if God spoke through him, but God also spoke through the prophets, and so they also were God's spokesmen, but he, Jesus, is the “express image of God's person” because he obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross, and so, he became the “image of God” through the application of God's Word in his daily living, and so, in that sense he is the Word of God, but he was not the “Word” in John 1, that “life giving spirit” was formed within him through obedience to God's Word. The Word pertains to him in John 1, and the Word is God in John 1c because it is through His Word that God reveals his character, and he gave us Jesus in order to reconcile us unto Himself, but Jesus had to be born into this world and become the express image of his person.  He was born an infant man child, and at the age of 12 we get a glimpse of him learning the Word of God and discussing the Word with the scribes in the synagogue, and then being anointed for his ministry to humanity at the age of 30, and then successfully obeying God without sin unto death on the cross. Love in Christ, Marty Marty. That only means that there is *God and his spokesman* in heaven. Two different entities.This can not be. BESIDE ME;THERE IS NO SAVIOUR. BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD. GOD IS BY HIMSELF,AND HIS WORD/BREATH, IN HIM. 1.The Word made all that is made. 2.Jesus made all that is made. 3.A spokesman can not give life,   and was not the tree of life in the garden. 4.The spokesman can not be the breath of God. 5. Psalms 33:6   By the WORD of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them ***by the BREATH OF HIS MOUTH***. 6.God's breath was always in him from everlasting. Jesus is the WORD OF GOD(BREATH) MADE FLESH. I created all things by *MY SELF*. And so is the Holy bible: the WORD OF GOD *IN PRINT*. To come to God;we need to go **THROUH THE SCRIPTURES**ONLY; can not come to God through some other means. wakeup. No Wakeup, Jesus is not the creator.  God created everything by His Word.  And yes besides him there is no savior.  He is the one that gave us His Only Begotten Son. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty.

Colossians 1:16.
***For by him were all things created***,
that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:
*** all things were created by him, and for him***:

Colossians 1:17 ***And he is before all things***,
***and by him all things consist***.

Refering to Jesus:

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Refering to God:
Here lies the mystery to the world.

No one can deny this truth.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2013,05:17)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 09 2013,03:56) Kerwin. The wikipedia has not been revealed by the Holy Spirit all the mysteries. No man knows the son but the Father,and no man knows the Father but the son; AND HE TO WHOM THE SON WILL REVEAL HIM. What is the name of your word?? wakeup. Wakeup, I was not using wikipedia for those maters, I was using it to point out that the CEV creditability is more questionable than word for word translations. The name of the word is word.  The word's name is above every other name and Jesus has inherited it. That is both why they word was made flesh and Jesus inherited a name that is above every other name.

Kerwin.

The Word of God is a *living* Word,with all wisdom to create.
All are created by his wisdom and power.
He is the Word of God, brought forth
out of God, in the form of God's image.
They were communicating before the world was.

He walked on earth,and his works and teachings,and actions,
images God, His Father.
Jesus is the *only man* that have been in heaven.
He said that he is going back to his Father; meaning he has *come from* his Father.

wakeup.

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 10 2013,10:57)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 08 2013,18:09) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2013,11:17) 1.  Are you telling me that a SAYING of God was both with God and was God in the beginning?   2.  Are you telling me that a SAYING of God actually became a flesh and blood man, who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?   3.  Are you telling me that it is a SAYING of God who will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes? no, no & no Hmmmmmm………….. Your “NO” answers don't align with this following quote of what you said on page 1002: “I don't know what you don't understand about the Word of God were the sayings of God. “ Please explain.

You said “a saying of God”, and that is not what is not what I said.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 11 2013,09:00)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 11 2013,02:39) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 10 2013,13:40) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 10 2013,03:55) Hi Wakeup: The scriptures that you quote from Jeremiah is God speaking to Jeremiah, but God spoke to the nation of Israel through Jeremiah warning them of the impending judgment to come if they did not repent.   You say that Only Jesus is the Word of God?  The scripture in Hebrews 1 would surely disagree with you on this assessment, and Jesus is God's spokesman if God spoke through him, but God also spoke through the prophets, and so they also were God's spokesmen, but he, Jesus, is the “express image of God's person” because he obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross, and so, he became the “image of God” through the application of God's Word in his daily living, and so, in that sense he is the Word of God, but he was not the “Word” in John 1, that “life giving spirit” was formed within him through obedience to God's Word. The Word pertains to him in John 1, and the Word is God in John 1c because it is through His Word that God reveals his character, and he gave us Jesus in order to reconcile us unto Himself, but Jesus had to be born into this world and become the express image of his person.  He was born an infant man child, and at the age of 12 we get a glimpse of him learning the Word of God and discussing the Word with the scribes in the synagogue, and then being anointed for his ministry to humanity at the age of 30, and then successfully obeying God without sin unto death on the cross. Love in Christ, Marty Marty. That only means that there is *God and his spokesman* in heaven. Two different entities.This can not be. BESIDE ME;THERE IS NO SAVIOUR. BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD. GOD IS BY HIMSELF,AND HIS WORD/BREATH, IN HIM. 1.The Word made all that is made. 2.Jesus made all that is made. 3.A spokesman can not give life,   and was not the tree of life in the garden. 4.The spokesman can not be the breath of God. 5. Psalms 33:6   By the WORD of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them ***by the BREATH OF HIS MOUTH***. 6.God's breath was always in him from everlasting. Jesus is the WORD OF GOD(BREATH) MADE FLESH. I created all things by *MY SELF*. And so is the Holy bible: the WORD OF GOD *IN PRINT*. To come to God;we need to go **THROUH THE SCRIPTURES**ONLY; can not come to God through some other means. wakeup. No Wakeup, Jesus is not the creator.  God created everything by His Word.  And yes besides him there is no savior.  He is the one that gave us His Only Begotten Son. Love in Christ, Marty Marty. Colossians 1:16.   ***For by him were all things created***, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: *** all things were created by him, and for him***:  Colossians 1:17   ***And he is before all things***, ***and by him all things consist***. Refering to Jesus: Revelation 4:11   Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Refering to God: Here lies the mystery to the world. No one can deny this truth. wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

God created everything that he created knowing that a particular point in time, His plan for humanity would be fulfilled through Jesus, and He created every thing that He created for him. Jesus is God's Heir, and we are joint heirs with him.

This is what the verses that you quoted from Colossians mean. These verses do not say that Jesus is the Creator.

And if you will read Revelation 4 & 5 in context you will see that Revelation 4:11 refers to God not to Jesus.

Quote

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Revelation 4:11 refers to Him who sits on the throne who is the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. This is not Jesus. He is not God.

And the following verses show Jesus coming to take the seven seals from His hand:

Quote

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Wakeup]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 12 2013,12:58)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 11 2013,09:00) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 11 2013,02:39) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 10 2013,13:40) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 10 2013,03:55) Hi Wakeup: The scriptures that you quote from Jeremiah is God speaking to Jeremiah, but God spoke to the nation of Israel through Jeremiah warning them of the impending judgment to come if they did not repent.   You say that Only Jesus is the Word of God?  The scripture in Hebrews 1 would surely disagree with you on this assessment, and Jesus is God's spokesman if God spoke through him, but God also spoke through the prophets, and so they also were God's spokesmen, but he, Jesus, is the “express image of God's person” because he obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross, and so, he became the “image of God” through the application of God's Word in his daily living, and so, in that sense he is the Word of God, but he was not the “Word” in John 1, that “life giving spirit” was formed within him through obedience to God's Word. The Word pertains to him in John 1, and the Word is God in John 1c because it is through His Word that God reveals his character, and he gave us Jesus in order to reconcile us unto Himself, but Jesus had to be born into this world and become the express image of his person.  He was born an infant man child, and at the age of 12 we get a glimpse of him learning the Word of God and discussing the Word with the scribes in the synagogue, and then being anointed for his ministry to humanity at the age of 30, and then successfully obeying God without sin unto death on the cross. Love in Christ, Marty Marty. That only means that there is *God and his spokesman* in heaven. Two different entities.This can not be. BESIDE ME;THERE IS NO SAVIOUR. BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD. GOD IS BY HIMSELF,AND HIS WORD/BREATH, IN HIM. 1.The Word made all that is made. 2.Jesus made all that is made. 3.A spokesman can not give life,   and was not the tree of life in the garden. 4.The spokesman can not be the breath of God. 5. Psalms 33:6   By the WORD of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them ***by the BREATH OF HIS MOUTH***. 6.God's breath was always in him from everlasting. Jesus is the WORD OF GOD(BREATH) MADE FLESH. I created all things by *MY SELF*. And so is the Holy bible: the WORD OF GOD *IN PRINT*. To come to God;we need to go **THROUH THE SCRIPTURES**ONLY; can not come to God through some other means. wakeup. No Wakeup, Jesus is not the creator.  God created everything by His Word.  And yes besides him there is no savior.  He is the one that gave us His Only Begotten Son. Love in Christ, Marty Marty. Colossians 1:16.   ***For by him were all things created***, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: *** all things were created by him, and for him***:  Colossians 1:17   ***And he is before all things***, ***and by him all things consist***. Refering to Jesus: Revelation 4:11   Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Refering to God: Here lies the mystery to the world. No one can deny this truth. wakeup. Hi Wakeup: God created everything that he created knowing that a particular point in time, His plan for humanity would be fulfilled through Jesus, and He created every thing that He created for him.  Jesus is God's Heir, and we are joint heirs with him. This is what the verses that you quoted from Colossians mean.  These verses do not say that Jesus is the Creator. And if you will read Revelation 4 & 5 in context you will see that Revelation 4:11 refers to God not to Jesus. Quote Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. Revelation 4:11 refers to Him who sits on the throne who is the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY.  This is not Jesus.  He is not God. And the following verses show Jesus coming to take the seven seals from His hand: Quote Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty.

What is it that you can not see?
All things were made by the Word of God.
The power comes from God;of course.
By the breath of God's mouth were all things made.
Breath/Word.LIVING WORD,WITH ALL WISDOM.

Jesus is the *Word of God*/breath,made flesh.
All things were made by Jesus/the Word/breath.
God does the thinking,and the word comes out of his mouth.
But his Word was next to God,because in the beginning God brought him out; gave him a form in his own image.

You think first before you say anything dont you?
You think first before you act dont You.

It's just that you can not comprehend, that God can
bring out his living word, and give him a body/shape.

wakeup.

[kerwin]

Wakeup,

Quote

Jesus is the *only man* that have been in heaven.

A common misunderstanding that seems to be common on this website.

John 3:13
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

What Jesus declares is that he has already ascended to heaven even though in point of fact he has not yet bodily ascended into heaven.

Even going by the AKJV, Jesus is bodily located on earth when he states the Son of man is in heaven.

It is wise to adjust your doctrine so it explains why Jesus was still bodily on earth after ascending and being in heaven.

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 12 2013,23:34)

Wakeup, Quote Jesus is the *only man* that have been in heaven. A common misunderstanding that seems to be common on this website. John 3:13 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. What Jesus declares is that he has already ascended to heaven even though in point of fact he has not yet bodily ascended into heaven. Even going by the AKJV, Jesus is bodily located on earth when he states the Son of man is in heaven. It is wise to adjust your doctrine so it explains why Jesus was still bodily on earth after ascending and being in heaven.

Kerwin.

[/QUOTE]A common misunderstanding that seems to be common on this website.
John 3:13
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
What Jesus declares is that he has already ascended to heaven even though in point of fact he has not yet bodily ascended into heaven.
Even going by the AKJV, Jesus is bodily located on earth when he states the Son of man is in heaven.
It is wise to adjust your doctrine so it explains why Jesus was still bodily on earth after ascending and being in heaven.
[/QUOTE].

(john 3:13).
You can not see if you refuse to see,or look.
Jesus was speaking about himself when he was in heaven with his Father. You refuse to see,because that would
do your doctrine no good. What happened to honesty?

What happened to clear conscience?

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 10 2013,16:00)

Marty. Colossians 1:16.   ***For by him were all things created***, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: *** all things were created by him, and for him***: Refering to Jesus: Revelation 4:11   Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Refering to God: Here lies the mystery to the world.

I want to make two points, Wakeup:

1.  Try using a translation that says all things were created THROUGH Jesus, not BY Jesus.  (The Greek word means either, so let's use the one that aligns with the rest of the scriptures.)

And after settling on the better translation of “THROUGH”, remember the words of Tertullian:  He who creates is one, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing is created is another.

So, saying that God created all things ALONE and BY HIMSELF, THROUGH His Son Jesus Christ, is NOT the same as saying Jesus actually created even one single thing.

2.  Revelation 4:11 is another of those scriptures that insists Jesus is a creation of God.  Because if God created ALL THINGS, and Jesus is a thing who is not God Himself, then Jesus has no choice but to be one of the ALL THINGS that was created BY God.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 11 2013,19:29)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 10 2013,10:57) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 08 2013,18:09) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2013,11:17) 1.  Are you telling me that a SAYING of God was both with God and was God in the beginning?   2.  Are you telling me that a SAYING of God actually became a flesh and blood man, who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?   3.  Are you telling me that it is a SAYING of God who will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes? no, no & no Hmmmmmm………….. Your “NO” answers don't align with this following quote of what you said on page 1002: “I don't know what you don't understand about the Word of God were the sayings of God. “ Please explain. You said “a saying of God”, and that is not what is not what I said. Love in Christ, Marty

Okay Marty,

Let me rephrase my questions:

1.  Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God were both with God and were God in the beginning?  

2.  Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God actually became a flesh and blood man, who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?  

3.  Are you telling me that it is the SAYINGS of God who will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes?

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2013,03:04)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 11 2013,19:29) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 10 2013,10:57) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 08 2013,18:09) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2013,11:17) 1.  Are you telling me that a SAYING of God was both with God and was God in the beginning?   2.  Are you telling me that a SAYING of God actually became a flesh and blood man, who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?   3.  Are you telling me that it is a SAYING of God who will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes? no, no & no Hmmmmmm………….. Your “NO” answers don't align with this following quote of what you said on page 1002: “I don't know what you don't understand about the Word of God were the sayings of God. “ Please explain. You said “a saying of God”, and that is not what is not what I said. Love in Christ, Marty Okay Marty, Let me rephrase my questions: 1.  Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God were both with God and were God in the beginning?   2.  Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God actually became a flesh and blood man, who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?   3.  Are you telling me that it is the SAYINGS of God who will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes?

I might have to qualify how, but the answer to those questions is yes.

Love in Christ,
Marty

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