JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ Sep. 25 2013,08:54)

not yet done?? kerwin why cant you accept that the word in john 1.1 is christ? may GOD open your eyes

Jammin,

Why don't you accept the Word in John 1 is the same Word that Scripture attests created all thing that are created?

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2013,17:14)

Quote (jammin @ Sep. 25 2013,08:54) not yet done?? kerwin why cant you accept that the word in john 1.1 is christ? may GOD open your eyes Jammin, Why don't you accept the Word in John 1 is the same Word that Scripture attests created all thing that are created?

what are you talking about???

bec i believe that the Word is Christ. i can read that in the bible.
word for word and not opinion.

i know you dont want truth that is why you keep explaining your belief. people who know how to read the bible wont accept your false doctrine.

if you can just open your eyes and read the bible well, you will know the truth.

[Wakeup]

What Kerwin is saying is true.(Jesus is the creator on Gods behalf).
And what Jammin is saying is also true.(The Word is Jesus).

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 24 2013,03:20)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 23 2013,21:40) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 24 2013,02:09) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 23 2013,20:52) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 23 2013,21:27) useless answer If you want to know you have to ask me. wakeup. who are you that i should ask YOU if i need to know I ask my God ;and through his written word he will answer me ;and it will be the truth , Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. it seems you do not understand what Paul is saying ?? Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. Pr 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; Pr 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, Pr 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. Pr 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, Pr 8:28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, Pr 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind. those verses will help you to understand why John the Baptist says; Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ Jn 1:31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.” but are you going to understand those scriptures You have not shown to me anything new, For I have confirmed that in the past. ***The word of God*** wakeup. GOOD STICK TO WHAT IS TRUE

But that is only one truth.
We need to know the whole truth.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 25 2013,17:10)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 24 2013,03:20) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 23 2013,21:40) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 24 2013,02:09) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 23 2013,20:52) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 23 2013,21:27) useless answer If you want to know you have to ask me. wakeup. who are you that i should ask YOU if i need to know I ask my God ;and through his written word he will answer me ;and it will be the truth , Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. it seems you do not understand what Paul is saying ?? Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. Pr 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; Pr 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, Pr 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. Pr 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, Pr 8:28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, Pr 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind. those verses will help you to understand why John the Baptist says; Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ Jn 1:31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.” but are you going to understand those scriptures You have not shown to me anything new, For I have confirmed that in the past. ***The word of God*** wakeup. GOOD STICK TO WHAT IS TRUE But that is only one truth. We need to know the whole truth. wakeup.

DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT ONE TRUTH UNFOLD ANOTHER ,???

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ Sep. 25 2013,13:49)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2013,17:14) Quote (jammin @ Sep. 25 2013,08:54) not yet done?? kerwin why cant you accept that the word in john 1.1 is christ? may GOD open your eyes Jammin, Why don't you accept the Word in John 1 is the same Word that Scripture attests created all thing that are created? what are you talking about??? bec i believe that the Word is Christ. i can read that in the bible. word for word and not opinion. i know you dont want truth that is why you keep explaining your belief. people who know how to read the bible wont accept your false doctrine. if you can just open your eyes and read the bible well, you will know the truth.

Jammin,

I read that God spoke his Word and there was light and so I have come to know light was created by God's Word.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 25 2013,07:34)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 24 2013,18:17) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 5.  All things were made through the personified “logos” of John 1. All things were made through Jesus – according to at least three other scriptures. John 1:3 is literaly true as the whole story of creation reveals it was made by God's Word.  That idea is echoed in other passages. So your OPINION (personal WISH) is that we can read John 1:3 literally, and know that God created all things through the Word.  But we CAN'T read Col 1:16, Hebrews 1:2, and 1 Cor 8:6 – which say that God created all things through Jesus Christ – in the same literal manner? Isn't that a little biased, Kerwin?  It's like you're saying that since you WANT to believe John 1:3, you will.  But since you DON'T WANT to believe what is taught in those other three scriptures, you won't.

Mike,

In reading John 1:3 literally I am not starting a new teaching but merely rephrasing an old one.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 25 2013,07:30)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 24 2013,18:17) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 3.  The personified “logos” of John 1 is closely associated with “light”. Jesus Christ is the “light” that came into the world. 4.  The personified “logos” of John 1 was testified about by John the Baptist. Jesus Christ is the sole person John the Baptist was sent to testify about. I agree with your words but probably not all of your intent. If you agree with the words that John wrote, then what other “intent” could there be? If the personified logos was “the true light that gives light to everyone”, and Jesus was “the light that has come into the world”, then what is so hard? If John the Baptist was sent to testify about none other than the personified logos, and John the Baptist was sent to testify about none other than Jesus Christ – where is the dilemma?

Mike,

God is love.

Is God literally love or is love one of his aspects that is being emphasized.

Jesus is the light that came into the world can also be understood in two ways but not both are true.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 25 2013,07:15)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 24 2013,18:28) Angels are do have the ministering “inner quality or nature” Does it say angels ARE ministering spirits?  Or angels HAVE ministering spirits? Kerwin, I'm done with this nonsense.  If you want to think angels have flesh in heaven, then I'll just roll my eyes and leave you to it.

Mike,

What is the difference between saying saints are good spirits and saying saints have good spirits?

What is the difference between saying saints are good souls and saying saints have good souls?

The only nonsense I see is insisting that what is done cannot be done.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 24 2013,21:16)

Quote (jammin @ Sep. 25 2013,13:54) not yet done?? kerwin why cant you accept that the word in john 1.1 is christ? may GOD open your eyes That's true jammin. But let's refine that statement. The Word came down to earth and was made flesh, and he was called Jesus. wakeup.

What you and jammin both stated is true, Wakeup.

But tell me which scripture prohibits Jesus from being his name before he was made flesh. (Hint: There is none.)

Jesus was the Word of God when he had glory alongside God before the world was created through him. And Jesus was the Word of God after being made in the likeness of a human being. And Jesus was the Word of God after being raised from the dead and ascending to heaven. And Jesus remains the Word of God to this very day.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2013,00:08)

Mike, Living by the Spirit of God he did not see equality with God as something to be grasped but emptied himself and took on the form of a servant. There is no preexistence there though it has the same “but” you speak of.

 Now let's try it with Paul's actual words:

Existing in the form of God, he didn't grasp for equality with God, BUT emptied himself and took on the form of a slave [INSTEAD].

Hmmm………….  BUT emptied himself and took on a DIFFERENT form.

1.  The most logical thing a person “emptied themselves of” would be the thing immediately aforementioned, Kerwin.

For example, one would not start the story of the Bible by saying, In the beginning, God emptied Himself and created the heavens and the earth.  We would all wonder WHAT He emptied Himself of – since nothing was aforementioned.

Now imagine it said, In the beginning, God, although loving His solitude, emptied Himself and created the heavens and the earth.

In that case, the thing He emptied Himself of is the thing immediately aforementioned in the context.  And that means that He emptied Himself of His love for solitude, and [INSTEAD] created other realms and beings to dwell in them.

2.  There is a clear CONTRAST that Paul is making between “the form of God” and “the form of a slave”.  Jesus was in one of those forms, but emptied himself and took on the other one of those forms.

So if you add the fact that the thing one empties himself of would naturally be the thing immediately aforementioned, to the fact that Paul was clearly CONTRASTING “form of God” with “form of a slave”, it doesn't take a college degree to figure out that the thing Jesus emptied himself of was the form of God.

This is simple common sense, Kerwin.  Even in your example, the only thing Jesus could have emptied himself of is the aforementioned “living by the Spirit of God”.  So your example teaches that Jesus was living by the Spirit of God, but then emptied himself of this lifestyle – perhaps by taking on a lifestyle in which he no longer lived by the Spirit of God.

Okay, now that that's done, let's address that BUT conjunction.

1.  Existing in the form of God……… at which time he didn't consider equality with God something to be grasped.

2.  BUT (instead/rather) emptied himself and took on the form of a slave and was made in the likeness of a human being.

No matter how you slice it, Jesus was existing and considering things BEFORE he emptied himself, took on the form of a slave, and was made in the likeness of a human being.

One who does not yet exist cannot “exist”, nor can he “consider” anything at all.  Are you able to understand this last sentence?  YES or NO?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 24 2013,18:28)

Mike, God does make his messengers wind and his servants flames of fire.

And which one of those two things consist of flesh, Kerwin? Wind? Or fire?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Sep. 25 2013,00:12)

Mike, I AGREE WITH YOU ! ONLY JESUS CHRIST OWNS BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH BODY AS ONE SUBSTANCE, AND HE CAN MANIFEST HIMSELF IN ANY STATE HE PREFERS NO MATTER WHERE!

When I read those first words, I knew it was too good to be true, Charles.

It seems we agree that angels don't have flesh, but disagree about Jesus.

Unlike you, I don't believe Jesus has flesh anymore. Flesh cannot enter the kingdom of God, nor can flesh inherit the kingdom of heaven.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 25 2013,05:04)

What Kerwin is saying is true.(Jesus is the creator on Gods behalf). And what Jammin is saying is also true.(The Word is Jesus). wakeup.

Whoa there Wakeup.  Scripture says that all things are FROM God and THROUGH Jesus.

God, alone and by Himself, created all things.  It's just that He chose to do that THROUGH Jesus, and THROUGH Adam, and THROUGH Noah, and THROUGH our parents, etc.

God creating you THROUGH your parents is NOT the same thing as your parents creating you.  God alone created all of us.  But He chose to do that THROUGH other vessels like Jesus and your parents.

He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another.  –  Tertullian

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2013,14:25)

Jammin, I read that God spoke his Word and there was light and so I have come to know light was created by God's Word.

So then God's word IS an entity individual from God Himself? And God told His word to go and create light, and then this individual entity went and created light on his own?

Kerwin, you are so see-through. Everything in your heart is telling you that “the Word of God” sometimes refers to an individual entity. And yet, even though you know that entity is Jesus in Rev 19:13, you won't accept that the same entity is Jesus in John 1:1, 1:14, 1 John 1:1-2, etc.

And because your personal wishes don't allow you to accept these CLEAR scriptural teachings, you have invented for yourself a DIFFERENT, UNNAMED individual entity that went out and created light when God told him to do so.

Mystery Babylon?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2013,14:50)

Mike, In reading John 1:3 literally I am not starting a new teaching but merely rephrasing an old one.

See my last post above.  

Also, why wouldn't you also be rephrasing an old teaching if you chose to accept Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, and Hebrews 1:2?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2013,15:17)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 25 2013,07:30) If the personified logos was “the true light that gives light to everyone”, and Jesus was “the light that has come into the world”, then what is so hard? If John the Baptist was sent to testify about none other than the personified logos, and John the Baptist was sent to testify about none other than Jesus Christ – where is the dilemma? Mike, God is love. Is God literally love or is love one of his aspects that is being emphasized. Jesus is the light that came into the world can also be understood in two ways but not both are true.

God is not literally the emotion of love.  He is a being that embodies the idea of love to the fullest extent possible.

Now that I've DIRECTLY answered YOUR question, let me rephrase my statements above as questions, so you can DIRECTLY answer them.

1.  Was the personified logos “the true light that came into the world”?  YES or NO?

2  Was Jesus “the true light that came into the world”?  YES or NO?

3.  Was John the Baptist sent to testify about none other than the personified logos?  YES or NO?

4.  Was John the Baptist sent to testify about none other than Jesus Christ?  YES or NO?

5.  Does it really affect the points I'm making if Jesus and the personified logos aren't LITERALLY “light”, but instead metaphorically called “light”?

Doesn't the point still remain that the same “light” associated things are said about both the personified logos AND Jesus Christ?  Because THAT is the point I'm making, Kerwin.  The point, in case you missed it, is that the SAME THINGS that are said about the personified logos are ALSO said about Jesus Christ.  Do you understand the point I'm making now?

And do you ACKNOWLEDGE that ALL of the things said about the personified logos in John 1 are ALSO said elsewhere in scripture about Jesus Christ? In fact, none of those things are said about anyone else EXCEPT the personified logos and Jesus Christ.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2013,15:31)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 25 2013,07:15) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 24 2013,18:28) Angels are do have the ministering “inner quality or nature” Does it say angels ARE ministering spirits?  Or angels HAVE ministering spirits? Kerwin, I'm done with this nonsense.  If you want to think angels have flesh in heaven, then I'll just roll my eyes and leave you to it. Mike, What is the difference between saying saints are good spirits and saying saints have good spirits? What is the difference between saying saints are good souls and saying saints have good souls? The only nonsense I see is insisting that what is done cannot be done.

Still rolling my eyes while I await your answer about whether or not fire and wind consist of flesh.

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 26 2013,10:09)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 25 2013,05:04) What Kerwin is saying is true.(Jesus is the creator on Gods behalf). And what Jammin is saying is also true.(The Word is Jesus). wakeup. Whoa there Wakeup.  Scripture says that all things are FROM God and THROUGH Jesus. God, alone and by Himself, created all things.  It's just that He chose to do that THROUGH Jesus, and THROUGH Adam, and THROUGH Noah, and THROUGH our parents, etc. God creating you THROUGH your parents is NOT the same thing as your parents creating you.  God alone created all of us.  But He chose to do that THROUGH other vessels like Jesus and your parents. He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another.  –  Tertullian

Mike B.

God is the source of everything.
His Word from within him, binds his creation in place.
By His Word also created *He* all things.
God and his Word are ONE.
There is none beside him.

But he did bring forth, from inside him His Word,a living being.
Send him down to earth in the form a humble
sorrow stricken man;called Jesus.
He spoke Gods Words,for he *IS* God's Word.
(the Word of God).

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 26 2013,10:16)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2013,14:25) Jammin, I read that God spoke his Word and there was light and so I have come to know light was created by God's Word. So then God's word IS an entity individual from God Himself?  And God told His word to go and create light, and then this individual entity went and created light on his own? Kerwin, you are so see-through.    Everything in your heart is telling you that “the Word of God” sometimes refers to an individual entity.  And yet, even though you know that entity is Jesus in Rev 19:13, you won't accept that the same entity is Jesus in John 1:1, 1:14, 1 John 1:1-2, etc. And because your personal wishes don't allow you to accept these CLEAR scriptural teachings, you have invented for yourself a DIFFERENT, UNNAMED individual entity that went out and created light when God told him to do so. Mystery Babylon?

Wow: you have discovered this deep mystery;
that the entire world could not put their finger to it.

May God bless you Mike.

wakeup.

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