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Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,09:42) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,14:33) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,14:20) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,09:06) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,13:53) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2013,09:46) Mike, Do you mean John might of been basically saying “he is currently called by the name of the Word of God”?
As for what I hear, he may or may not be called the Word of God at other times than the one John speaks of. Revelations 19:13 does not tell us.
kerwinChrist as been the son of God sins the first of all creation if not Paul is a fake and liar;
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.those words of Paul do not need interpretation unless you want them to be not saying what they really saying ,
“the word of God ” is also the son of God and will be forever the WORD OF GOD ,why is that because the entire creation will be subdued to the son of God and this make Christ the word of God the only line to God the father ,the spoke person ,the communicator to the rest of creation ,the middle party ,between God and all creation.
Hi Pierre,Col.1:16-17 is about God, not Jesus.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjprove it , who is the “HE”
Hi Pierre,You mean in Col.1:17, “He” is YHVH.
YHVH is before all things and by him
all things exist, as HE is The Creator.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Better read your bible a bit more.“Thus saith the LORD(YHVH), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb,
I the LORD(YHVH) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh
diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;” (Isaiah 44:24-25)“The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne(YHVH),
and worship him(YHVH) that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Thou art worthy, O LORD(YHVH), to receive glory and honor and power:
for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” (Rev 4:10-11)When you compare these verses to Col.1:16-17, it is apearent the subject is “GOD The Father”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjCol 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;please just place the word “Christ” were you think it is of the son Paul talks ,and place the word “GOD” were it is you think it is suppose to be the father ;BUT DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ELSE ok???
Hi Pierre,
Mathew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye
shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
2 Tm.2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth
faithful: he(God) cannot deny himself.“God The Father” is the “Subject” in Col.1:12-20 and Jesus is the Object; English 101.
I will take the liberty to insert both the subject and object into the text for 'your' understanding.
Normally I remove the numbers, but for explanation purposes, my “Free Will” will leave them in for you.
There is no inconsistencies with the rest of “The Bible” viewing Col.1:12-20 in the light of my view. (Eph.5:13)Col.1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet
to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light (Romans 8:17):
13: Who (YHVH our God) hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son(switching to object):
14: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15: Who(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(YHVH), the firstborn of every creature:
16: For by him(YHVH)(switching back to the subject) were all things created, that are in heaven,
and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him(YHVH), and for him(YHVH):
17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.
18: And he(Jesus)(switching back to the object) is the head of the body, the church:
who is the beginning(the preeminence of God), the firstborn from the dead (Romans 1:4);
that in all things he(Jesus) might have the preeminence(over all his brethren).
19: For it pleased the Father that in him(Jesus) should all fulness dwell;
20: And, having made peace through the blood of his(Jesus) cross,
by him(YHVH) to reconcile all things unto himself(2Cor.5:18);
by him, whether things in earth, or things in heaven.Lets now look at verse 16 and verse 17 with greater scrutiny…
16: For by him(YHVH) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth,
visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Rev.4:11)Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) created these things “in Heaven”…
1. God's throne
2. God's dominion
3. God's principality
4. God's power
5. God himselfCan you not see the flaw in 'your' assertion?
Now let's take a closer look at verse 17…
17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.
Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) is before YHVH himself?
Would 'you' have us to believe by Jesus (falsely) all things consist?
How can you reconcile this belief without saying Jesus is God?Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,10:02) Hi Pierre, Mathew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye
shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
2 Tm.2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth
faithful: he(God) cannot deny himself.“God The Father” is the “Subject” in Col.1:12-20 and Jesus is the Object; English 101.
I will take the liberty to insert both the subject and object into the text for 'your' understanding.
Normally I remove the numbers, but for explanation purposes, my “Free Will” will leave them in for you.
There is no inconsistencies with the rest of “The Bible” viewing Col.1:12-20 in the light of my view. (Eph.5:13)Col.1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet
to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light (Romans 8:17):
13: Who (YHVH our God) hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son(switching to object):
14: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15: Who(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(YHVH), the firstborn of every creature:
16: For by him(YHVH)(switching back to the subject) were all things created, that are in heaven,
and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him(YHVH), and for him(YHVH):
17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.
18: And he(Jesus)(switching back to the object) is the head of the body, the church:
who is the beginning(the preeminence of God), the firstborn from the dead (Romans 1:4);
that in all things he(Jesus) might have the preeminence(over all his brethren).
19: For it pleased the Father that in him(Jesus) should all fulness dwell;
20: And, having made peace through the blood of his(Jesus) cross,
by him(YHVH) to reconcile all things unto himself(2Cor.5:18);
by him, whether things in earth, or things in heaven.Lets now look at verse 16 and verse 17 with greater scrutiny…
16: For by him(YHVH) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth,
visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Rev.4:11)Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) created these things “in Heaven”…
1. God's throne
2. God's dominion
3. God's principality
4. God's power
5. God himselfCan you not see the flaw in 'your' assertion?
Now let's take a closer look at verse 17…
17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.
Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) is before YHVH himself?
Would 'you' have us to believe by Jesus (falsely) all things consist?
How can you reconcile this belief without saying Jesus is God?Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJthis is not a driving test ,turning when you feel like it this is your way of changing scriptures meanings ,and you forgot verse 14 ,so I ask you not to add or change anything else but you can not do that because scriptures do not support your view ,
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,15:25) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,10:02) Hi Pierre, Mathew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye
shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
2 Tm.2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth
faithful: he(God) cannot deny himself.“God The Father” is the “Subject” in Col.1:12-20 and Jesus is the Object; English 101.
I will take the liberty to insert both the subject and object into the text for 'your' understanding.
Normally I remove the numbers, but for explanation purposes, my “Free Will” will leave them in for you.
There is no inconsistencies with the rest of “The Bible” viewing Col.1:12-20 in the light of my view. (Eph.5:13)Col.1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet
to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light (Romans 8:17):
13: Who (YHVH our God) hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son(switching to object):
14: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15: Who(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(YHVH), the firstborn of every creature:
16: For by him(YHVH)(switching back to the subject) were all things created, that are in heaven,
and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him(YHVH), and for him(YHVH):
17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.
18: And he(Jesus)(switching back to the object) is the head of the body, the church:
who is the beginning(the preeminence of God), the firstborn from the dead (Romans 1:4);
that in all things he(Jesus) might have the preeminence(over all his brethren).
19: For it pleased the Father that in him(Jesus) should all fulness dwell;
20: And, having made peace through the blood of his(Jesus) cross,
by him(YHVH) to reconcile all things unto himself(2Cor.5:18);
by him, whether things in earth, or things in heaven.Lets now look at verse 16 and verse 17 with greater scrutiny…
16: For by him(YHVH) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth,
visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Rev.4:11)Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) created these things “in Heaven”…
1. God's throne
2. God's dominion
3. God's principality
4. God's power
5. God himselfCan you not see the flaw in 'your' assertion?
Now let's take a closer look at verse 17…
17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.
Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) is before YHVH himself?
Would 'you' have us to believe by Jesus (falsely) all things consist?
How can you reconcile this belief without saying Jesus is God?Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJthis is not a driving test ,turning when you feel like it this is your way of changing scriptures meanings ,and you forgot verse 14 ,so I ask you not to add or change anything else but you can not do that because scriptures do not support your view ,
In verse 14 “whom” refers to Jesus.Edj
God is not a thing that was created ,he is the creator,the son is the one through whom all things are created,
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,09:42) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,15:02) Hi Pierre, Mathew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye
shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
2 Tm.2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth
faithful: he(God) cannot deny himself.“God The Father” is the “Subject” in Col.1:12-20 and Jesus is the Object; English 101.
I will take the liberty to insert both the subject and object into the text for 'your' understanding.
Normally I remove the numbers, but for explanation purposes, my “Free Will” will leave them in for you.
There is no inconsistencies with the rest of “The Bible” viewing Col.1:12-20 in the light of my view. (Eph.5:13)Col.1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet
to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light (Romans 8:17):
13: Who (YHVH our God) hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son(switching to object):
14: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15: Who(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(YHVH), the firstborn of every creature:
16: For by him(YHVH)(switching back to the subject) were all things created, that are in heaven,
and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him(YHVH), and for him(YHVH):
17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.
18: And he(Jesus)(switching back to the object) is the head of the body, the church:
who is the beginning(the preeminence of God), the firstborn from the dead (Romans 1:4);
that in all things he(Jesus) might have the preeminence(over all his brethren).
19: For it pleased the Father that in him(Jesus) should all fulness dwell;
20: And, having made peace through the blood of his(Jesus) cross,
by him(YHVH) to reconcile all things unto himself(2Cor.5:18);
by him, whether things in earth, or things in heaven.Lets now look at verse 16 and verse 17 with greater scrutiny…
16: For by him(YHVH) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth,
visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Rev.4:11)Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) created these things “in Heaven”…
1. God's throne
2. God's dominion
3. God's principality
4. God's power
5. God himselfCan you not see the flaw in 'your' assertion?
Now let's take a closer look at verse 17…
17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.
Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) is before YHVH himself?
Would 'you' have us to believe by Jesus (falsely) all things consist?
How can you reconcile this belief without saying Jesus is God?Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org“Thus saith the LORD(YHVH), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb,
I the LORD(YHVH) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh
diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;” (Isaiah 44:24-25)“The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne(YHVH),
and worship him(YHVH) that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Thou art worthy, O LORD(YHVH), to receive glory and honor and power:
for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” (Rev 4:10-11)When you compare these verses to Col.1:16-17, it is apearent the subject is “GOD The Father”!
Hi Pierre,You are forgetting how Col.1:16-17 meshes with these verses. You trying to
apply them to Jesus puts them in conflict with Isaiah 44:24 and Rev 4:11.
Do you not consider how the bible fits together as a whole?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,16:56) Edj God is not a thing that was created ,he is the creator,the son is the one through whom all things are created,
Hi Pierre,God created Jesus and Jesus created all other things is JW doctrine and it is NOT biblical.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEdj
Their is no conflict in the scriptures ,only men,s lack of understanding ,their could be a miss translation of certain words but no conflict ,
Hi Pierre,
The bible is clear on Jesus divinity – he is the divine son of God.
People have difficulty understanding this, some try to say
he has no divinity, and other try to elevate him to God.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,09:42) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,15:02)
16: For by him(YHVH) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth,
visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Rev.4:11)Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) created these things “in Heaven”…
1. God's throne
2. God's dominion
3. God's principality
4. God's power
5. God himselfCan you not see the flaw in 'your' assertion?
Now let's take a closer look at verse 17…
17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.
Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) is before YHVH himself?
Would 'you' have us to believe by Jesus (falsely) all things consist?
How can you reconcile this belief without saying Jesus is God?“Thus saith the LORD(YHVH), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb,
I the LORD(YHVH) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh
diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;” (Isaiah 44:24-25)“The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne(YHVH),
and worship him(YHVH) that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Thou art worthy, O LORD(YHVH), to receive glory and honor and power:
for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” (Rev 4:10-11)When you compare these verses to Col.1:16-17, it is apearent the subject is “GOD The Father”!
Hi Pierre,Please look a little closer at how all these fit together perfectly. You trying to
apply Colossians 1:16-17 to Jesus puts them in conflict with Isaiah 44:24 and Rev 4:11.
Instead of you just brushing this off, you need to focus on the parts that I have enlarged for you.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,02:21) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 03 2013,12:34) Mike, I have always treated the tense as present tense though the context of the words containing it were in John's future.
Have you? I could swear that I've seen you “correcting” jammin by insisting the rider will be called the Word of God. Perhaps I was seeing things?Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 03 2013,12:34) My point is that a name Jesus is called by at the time John foresaw is not evidence Jesus was called by that same name in the beginning.
I've already agreed to this at least twice, Kerwin. The fact that Jesus IS called the Word of God in John's future revelation sheds no light on whether or not he was ever called that before this future time.But you ALTERING the text to “WILL BE CALLED” is slanting the text in ways John never intended.
It seems we can both agree that his name IS called the Word of God in the future, which doesn't prohibit him from having that name from days of old.
Mike,It is my belief Jesus is first called by the name of the Word of God when the Word is made flesh. The present tense in Revelations does not prove of disprove that conclusion not does it disprove or prove him being called by the name of the Word in the beginning.
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 01 2013,21:17) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 01 2013,13:25) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 01 2013,00:00) Hi Jammin, What does the “White Horse” symbolize that The Word is riding on?
In other words what is the “White Horse” of Revelation 19:11?God bless
Ed J
bible says white horse.
some commentaries say maybe a symbol of the gospel.
Hi Jammin,Thanks! Usually trying to get you to answer simple questions
is like pulling teeth. Currently I'm having this problem with Kerwin.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
i answered your question very clear..
usually you dont understand truth. you want imaginations. you want explanations that is not written in the bible.Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,14:42) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,14:33) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,14:20) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,09:06) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,13:53) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2013,09:46) Mike, Do you mean John might of been basically saying “he is currently called by the name of the Word of God”?
As for what I hear, he may or may not be called the Word of God at other times than the one John speaks of. Revelations 19:13 does not tell us.
kerwinChrist as been the son of God sins the first of all creation if not Paul is a fake and liar;
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.those words of Paul do not need interpretation unless you want them to be not saying what they really saying ,
“the word of God ” is also the son of God and will be forever the WORD OF GOD ,why is that because the entire creation will be subdued to the son of God and this make Christ the word of God the only line to God the father ,the spoke person ,the communicator to the rest of creation ,the middle party ,between God and all creation.
Hi Pierre,Col.1:16-17 is about God, not Jesus.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjprove it , who is the “HE”
Hi Pierre,You mean in Col.1:17, “He” is YHVH.
YHVH is before all things and by him
all things exist, as HE is The Creator.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Better read your bible a bit more.“Thus saith the LORD(YHVH), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb,
I the LORD(YHVH) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh
diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;” (Isaiah 44:24-25)“The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne(YHVH),
and worship him(YHVH) that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Thou art worthy, O LORD(YHVH), to receive glory and honor and power:
for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” (Rev 4:10-11)When you compare these verses to Col.1:16-17, it is apearent the subject is “GOD The Father”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
why do you say that to T???are you reading your bible well?
maybe you should ask yourself first.
dont you feel ashamed of yourself?the example is your the Word explanations. you always get verse that is not related in john 1.1
do you know how to read the context?
tsk tsk.if God is the HE in col 1.15-16
then this will be th outcome.GOD is the image of the invisible God
are you ok?? are you sick?
study hard
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,11:59) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,16:56) Edj God is not a thing that was created ,he is the creator,the son is the one through whom all things are created,
Hi Pierre,God created Jesus and Jesus created all other things is JW doctrine and it is NOT biblical.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjI do not share WJ views, and I do not say that Christ the son created anything ,scriptures says that God the father created all things ALONE what you still seem not to understand is creation it self,
and you should investigate that part for your own enlightenment
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,12:19) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,09:42) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,15:02)
16: For by him(YHVH) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth,
visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Rev.4:11)Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) created these things “in Heaven”…
1. God's throne
2. God's dominion
3. God's principality
4. God's power
5. God himselfCan you not see the flaw in 'your' assertion?
Now let's take a closer look at verse 17…
17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.
Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) is before YHVH himself?
Would 'you' have us to believe by Jesus (falsely) all things consist?
How can you reconcile this belief without saying Jesus is God?“Thus saith the LORD(YHVH), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb,
I the LORD(YHVH) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh
diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;” (Isaiah 44:24-25)“The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne(YHVH),
and worship him(YHVH) that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Thou art worthy, O LORD(YHVH), to receive glory and honor and power:
for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” (Rev 4:10-11)When you compare these verses to Col.1:16-17, it is apearent the subject is “GOD The Father”!
Hi Pierre,Please look a little closer at how all these fit together perfectly. You trying to
apply Colossians 1:16-17 to Jesus puts them in conflict with Isaiah 44:24 and Rev 4:11.
Instead of you just brushing this off, you need to focus on the parts that I have enlarged for you.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjI ask you to look into Col 1;15-16 and more I have quoted you the all section but you can not use scriptures as they are written ,YOU SEEM TO HAVE A NEED TO SHOW US ALL HOW GOD IS TALKING THROUGH YOU ,AND THIS TO MAKE YOU A MIGHTY ONE ,CHRIST SAYS THAT TO BE GREAT WE MUST HUMBEL OUR SELVES TO THE POINT OF BECOMING SERVANTS TO OUR FELLOW MEN ,
Jammin ,is also pointing out a good point that I was also going to show you but he beat to it ,well done Jammin.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2013,00:31) It is my belief Jesus is first called by the name of the Word of God when the Word is made flesh.
But to you, the “Word of God” is nothing more than utterances from God's mouth, right?Did God say the word “JESUS”, and His utterance became the flesh person of Jesus?
Was the entire being of Jesus Christ, and all things that he accomplished, just one of God's utterances that became flesh and lived on earth as a human being?Was one of God's utterances sacrificed so that it could shed blood for mankind?
These are nonsensical notions, Kerwin………. but they are what YOU teach.
We at least have a starting point – a place where we DO agree, and from where we can move forward. That place is that we both believe JESUS is the one called “the Word of God” from John 1:14 onward.
So here is our difference:
I believe that the one called the Word of God actually existed in heaven, and then was made flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.
You believe there existed a normal human being named Jesus from Nazareth, and at some point, an UTTERANCE of God became him. Or took him over. Or merged with him. Or that he changed from being a normal human being and transformed into a word that God had spoken. Or something like that.
This is where I'm fuzzy about your understanding, Kerwin. I mean, which one is the only begotten Son of God? Jesus from Nazareth? Or this utterance that God spoke? There are other confusing notions about your understanding as well, but this will get the ball rolling.
See, we have to get you nailed down on exactly what you think the Word of God is/was – or else we can't go through the first 4 chapters of John an see if your understanding fits with every scripture, like you've claimed it does.
In other words, how in the world can we check to see if you're correct if you can't even put a finger on exactly who or what this “Word of God” is?
Ed,
The word translated as “by” in the first part of Col 1:16 is also translated as “through” 39 times in the AKJV. After all, “by” and “through” are synonyms.
It seems that the last part of verse 16 confirms that it should be translated as “through” – because the last part (“all things were created through him and for him”) is just an affirmation of the first part (“for all things in heaven and on earth were created by/through him”).
Remember that “by” and “through” are synonyms, and often mean exactly the same thing.
Quote (jammin @ Aug. 05 2013,00:41) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,15:02) Hi Pierre, 15: Who(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(YHVH), the firstborn of every creature:
if God is the HE in col 1.15-16
then this will be th outcome.GOD is the image of the invisible God
are you ok?? are you sick?
study hard
Hi Jammin,YOU obviously don't pay attention to what you read.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMike,
Quote 2. By a usage chiefly Hebraistic the name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is roused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i. e. for one's rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds, etc.; thus, εἰς ὄνομtα προφήτου, out of regard for (see εἰς, B. II. 2 d.) the name of prophet which he bears, equivalent to because he is a prophet, Matthew 10:41; βαπτίζειν τινα εἰς ὄνομα τίνος, by baptism to bind anyone to recognize and publicly acknowledge the dignity and authority of one (cf. βαπτίζω, II. The flesh is called by the name of the Word because he is everything that name covers. It is clear the flesh became everything the name covers when the Word was made flesh. Jesus did not sacrifice the Word, he sacrificed the flesh.
All John states in John 1:14 is the Word was made flesh. He did not state how the Word was made flesh. I am going to leave it at that now.
We agree on some things, just as you say.
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 05 2013,01:28) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,12:19) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,09:42) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,15:02)
16: For by him(YHVH) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth,
visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Rev.4:11)Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) created these things “in Heaven”…
1. God's throne
2. God's dominion
3. God's principality
4. God's power
5. God himselfCan you not see the flaw in 'your' assertion?
Now let's take a closer look at verse 17…
17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.
Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) is before YHVH himself?
Would 'you' have us to believe by Jesus (falsely) all things consist?
How can you reconcile this belief without saying Jesus is God?“Thus saith the LORD(YHVH), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb,
I the LORD(YHVH) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh
diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;” (Isaiah 44:24-25)“The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne(YHVH),
and worship him(YHVH) that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Thou art worthy, O LORD(YHVH), to receive glory and honor and power:
for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” (Rev 4:10-11)When you compare these verses to Col.1:16-17, it is apearent the subject is “GOD The Father”!
Hi Pierre,Please look a little closer at how all these fit together perfectly. You trying to
apply Colossians 1:16-17 to Jesus puts them in conflict with Isaiah 44:24 and Rev 4:11.
Instead of you just brushing this off, you need to focus on the parts that I have enlarged for you.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjI ask you to look into Col 1;15-16 and more I have quoted you the all section but you can not use scriptures as they are written ,YOU SEEM TO HAVE A NEED TO SHOW US ALL HOW GOD IS TALKING THROUGH YOU ,AND THIS TO MAKE YOU A MIGHTY ONE ,CHRIST SAYS THAT TO BE GREAT WE MUST HUMBEL OUR SELVES TO THE POINT OF BECOMING SERVANTS TO OUR FELLOW MEN ,
Jammin ,is also pointing out a good point that I was also going to show you but he beat to it ,well done Jammin.
So you're refusing to comment on the points I have given in my quote?
How convenient, just ignore it and it will go away; is that it?
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