JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[david]

We know some people will allow Satan to blind their minds so that they don't see the truth about Christ.

2 CORINTHIANS 4:4
“among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.”

The truth is, it takes work and effort to dig for these things (Prov 1), and some people aren't into that.
They give up.

[Not3in1]

Quote (david @ Sep. 24 2008,19:13)

We know some people will allow Satan to blind their minds so that they don't see the truth about Christ. 2 CORINTHIANS 4:4 “among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.” The truth is, it takes work and effort to dig for these things (Prov 1), and some people aren't into that. They give up.

Two words come to mind: bite me. Forgive me, but your arrogant attitude is too much sometimes.

David, I have studied for 5 years!!! When I say “studied” I'm not talking casually. I'm talking for 5 to 6 hours A DAY!!!!

It does take effort to dig and dig and dig……massive amounts of effort.

Please don't think you're the only one doing this. Other's also want to know the truth and seek it out. The journey is long and tiring…..

[david]

Quote

David, I have studied for 5 years!!! When I say “studied” I'm not talking casually. I'm talking for 5 to 6 hours A DAY!!!!

Might I suggest 10?

(Just joking.)
I know, putting that scripture out there was not cool. But it is extremely frustrating for me when someone believes something but isn't willing to discuss it, and seems unwilling to look at it.

[Not3in1]

I've looked at it. Too many times. I've heard you and a zillion other's give their expert opinions…….all different opinons!! This is why I don't bother looking at it.

I'm frustrating you and becoming too tired to continue on politely. 😉 So I better head to bed.

Mandy

[david]

Quote

I've looked at it. Too many times. I've heard you and a zillion other's give their expert opinions…….all different opinons!! This is why I don't bother looking at it.

Well, there's not a zillion opinions. There's a couple.
–Jesus pre-existed. He pre-existed as a plan/thought. He didn't pre-exist.

And, it's probably pretty important to figure out. (John 17:3)

So giving up isn't the right course.

A great place to begin would be with what the scripture says. That's where I was trying to start.

I'm sorry if I upset you.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 24 2008,19:01)

That's exactly the problem, Irene.  I'm losing faith in “what is written”.  Not losing faith in God, but in the written Word (not to be confused with the living Word). That's why I say it's useless and challenging to debate it any further.

That is fair enough for you to make that choice. Seems pointless for you to be debating in the Scripture & Biblical Doctrine as you say.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (charity @ Sep. 24 2008,19:06)

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 24 2008,10:21) Quote (charity @ Sep. 23 2008,17:35) Pro 8:1¶Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice? She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths. She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors. Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice [is] to the sons of man. For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it. I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions. when he created a new thing a compass Pro 8:27   When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: perhaps Mary did more for Jesus, than what meets the eye. I would say that this is probably so. Jesus was discipled by his Heavenly Father, but his mother and earthly father would surely have had a huge impact in his life. I know that my mother had a huge impact in my life. A lot of what I am today is because of her. As for wisdom, you rightly talk of wisdom as a characteristic or quality. Just as truth is also a quality or characteristic, Jesus said “I am the truth”. In the same way he is wisdom. Of course Jesus being the Truth and Wisdom, doesn't negate the fact that these are still attributes of God. Tatian put it like this around (165 A.D): And by His simple will the Word sprang forth, and the Word, not coming forth in vain, became the firstbegotten work of the Father . Him [the Word] we know to be the Beginning of the world (cf. Rev. 3:14). But He came into being by participation, not by cutting off, for what is cut off is separated from the original substance, but that which comes by participation, making its choice of function, does not render him deficient from whom it is taken. For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him. I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known. –Walt Disney I guess straight after he said that! he tucked Micky in and went home to no Dinner, went to sleep and got up a created Mini -charity Luv ya t8

Well I can say that if it wasn't for my wife, I would certainly lack a great deal. She makes up for many of my faults. She is my short term memory for a start.

Hmmmm. Well I guess that Walter Disney became extremely rich and could afford to pay for someone to tuck him in at night.

[Not3in1]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 24 2008,20:20)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 24 2008,19:01) That's exactly the problem, Irene.  I'm losing faith in “what is written”.  Not losing faith in God, but in the written Word (not to be confused with the living Word). That's why I say it's useless and challenging to debate it any further. That is fair enough for you to make that choice. Seems pointless for you to be debating in the Scripture & Biblical Doctrine as you say.

Kind of a snide comment snuck in there, don't you think? Would you rather I not contribute here in the Scripture and Biblical Doctrine threads? Is all debate then? Is there nothing else to contribute but arguments against your brother's? If so, then you are correct and I should take a hike.

However I believe that there are other contributions that also are worthwhile. Causing other's to think about their view or perhaps even another more liberal view is valuable. One doesn't need to debate to cause other's to ponder a different idea concerning their own ideas.

Perhaps I'm wrong altogether. I know that you (like David and some other's) like to herd folks into a corner. Into a set of belief's. Either they are wrong or they are right (if they agree with you). You have said that you are open in the past, but I have not seen that here. You are definitely teaching with an agenda. Seperating out who is a “believer” and who is a “non-believer” was the beginning of the evidence there.

I appreciate this site for other reasons than debate. I know some may find that hard to believe, but I do. I read a lot of back posts and have learned a great deal about other's beliefs. It's helped me have a better view of the world and other's. This site has given me tolerance and a love for those who don't believe like me. Anyway, I'm rambling….

I guess I'll keep my mouth shut more. It is possible. 😉

Thanks,
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi Mandy,
t8 does not mean it that way.
He is by nature a very kind, gentle and considerate man.
He was agreeing with you that withdrawing from the difficult threads may help you heal.

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 24 2008,19:17)

Two words come to mind:  bite me.  Forgive me, but your arrogant attitude is too much sometimes. David, I have studied for 5 years!!!  When I say “studied” I'm not talking casually.  I'm talking for 5 to 6 hours A DAY!!!! It does take effort to dig and dig and dig……massive amounts of effort.   Please don't think you're the only one doing this.  Other's also want to know the truth and seek it out.  The journey is long and tiring…..

Hi Mandy,

That has been one of my greatest frustrations.
I too have studied many hours a day. Not casual reading, but
intense study. I have prayed for the Spirit to be with me
and help me to understand.

I haven't enjoyed that help. Could it be that God doesn't want me. If God wanted people to read and learn from His word, why would He have made it so difficult to comprehend? I know that Nick and others have said that it isn't confusing at all if the Spirit is leading you.
But they are wrong, at the same time their understanding is different than someone elses understanding that is being led by the same Spirit.

I feel for your frustration. People who are dillusioned in to believing that they have the only correct understanding, have no empathy for what you are going through.

Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim4,
Praying for you.
Cruise it, let the Spirit take you in the flow bro.

Love it, read it, let it teach.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,06:53)

Hi Mandy, t8 does not mean it that way. He is by nature a very kind, gentle and considerate man. He was agreeing with you that withdrawing from the difficult threads may help you heal.

Yes, you are probably right Nick. Thanks.

I'm sorry t8. I shouldn't have assumed and then toungue lashed you like I did. I really apologize and feel a bit embrassed that I leaped like that. As you might imagine, I'm a bit beaten down. Things are not going well at home, here. I'm also frustrated with my spiritual journey (going through a mad at God phase – AGAIN). Sorry, brother.

Love,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Tim,

Sigh……..breath in through the nose, out through the mouth (I'm talking to myself here).

I am comforted that I am not alone in my doubts and in my questions. While I don't wish this place of indecision on anyone, it's nice to know you are standing next to me.

Maybe “indecision” is the wrong word? But I'm not sure what other word would fit just now….

There is a feeling of freedom when I let go of the trappings of Christianity. There is also a tug of fear that says, “Wait, Mandy. Wait. Not so fast. Uh, listen-in some more and don't make any hasty decisions.” And so I'm learning to wait. But nothings happening and I don't “hear” anything either. I'm beginning to wonder if God only talks to those who talk to him? Like you, I'm beginning to wonder if he wants me at all and is more happily contented with the likes of those who never question.

But question, I must.

Not all who wonder are lost. Tolkien.

Take care, Tim
Love,
Mandy

[charity]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,10:02)

Hi Tim4, Praying for you. Cruise it, let the Spirit take you in the flow bro. Love it, read it, let it teach.

Hi Nick, If one has a father, he should consider not lifting the old Land mark set in place for the Fatherless, that they have a strong redeemer, and he shall plead their case against adversary.

yet John removes anyway, He has not offered charity to anyone that dose not agree with his interruption, I beseech thee  not to brace his attitude, that is leading the earth to actions of intolerance, again we have the war of the gods?
unto sounding cymbals, where prophecy to end with charity, the Law that sayeth finish the Law that followeth the Law.

Addressed to the congregation of self righteousness.
Pro 23:8The morsel [which] thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words.
Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless:
For their redeemer [is] mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.

And the father of the fatherless is God, because he is a good God, and created every soul worthy of this earth.
Psa 68:5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, [is] God in his holy habitation.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 25 2008,10:13)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,06:53) Hi Mandy, t8 does not mean it that way. He is by nature a very kind, gentle and considerate man. He was agreeing with you that withdrawing from the difficult threads may help you heal. Yes, you are probably right Nick.  Thanks. I'm sorry t8.  I shouldn't have assumed and then toungue lashed you like I did.  I really apologize and feel a bit embrassed that I leaped like that.  As you might imagine, I'm a bit beaten down.  Things are not going well at home, here.  I'm also frustrated with my spiritual journey (going through a mad at God phase – AGAIN).  Sorry, brother. Love, Mandy

Hi Mandy and Tim

Praying for you!

Love in Christ!

WJ

[Tiffany]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 25 2008,10:45)

Tim, Sigh……..breath in through the nose, out through the mouth (I'm talking to myself here).   I am comforted that I am not alone in my doubts and in my questions.  While I don't wish this place of indecision on anyone, it's nice to know you are standing next to me. Maybe “indecision” is the wrong word?  But I'm not sure what other word would fit just now…. There is a feeling of freedom when I let go of the trappings of Christianity.  There is also a tug of fear that says, “Wait, Mandy.  Wait.  Not so fast.  Uh, listen-in some more and don't make any hasty decisions.”  And so I'm learning to wait.  But nothings happening and I don't “hear” anything either.  I'm beginning to wonder if God only talks to those who talk to him?  Like you, I'm beginning to wonder if he wants me at all and is more happily contented with the likes of those who never question. But question, I must.   Not all who wonder are lost.  Tolkien.   Take care, Tim Love, Mandy

Mandy! May God be with YOU, HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH.

Peace and Love Irene

P.S. Georg has a very good article in His new Book it is very long and I don't want to paste it here. If you are interested let me know and I will make a new tread with it.

[NickHassan]

Hi charity,
Let John unravel the Word for you.
He is blessed with deep loving wisdom.

[TimothyVI]

HI Nick and worshippingJesus,

Thank you for your prayers.

Tim

[charity]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,11:18)

Hi charity, Let John unravel the Word for you. He is blessed with deep loving wisdom.

yes he has made it perfectly clear.

Jhn 8:44   Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Least all men alike  perish both sinner, and those without understanding to depart, where the soul is out of reach from any human intervention, that opresseth, where souls are the possession of God, whom shall redeem as he pleases, and that, To God alone, Psa 10:18 judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.
It Is a shame to Men, that souls are made to Live Life in hell  , only to depart to obtain mercy, and rest, with the hope they have in a powerful God.

How Long before the earth can see thru the spit and mud John plasters over the eyes of creation?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (charity @ Sep. 25 2008,11:40)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,11:18) Hi charity, Let John unravel the Word for you. He is blessed with deep loving wisdom. yes he has made it perfectly clear. Jhn 8:44   Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Least all men alike  perish both sinner, and those without understanding to depart, where the soul is out of reach from any human intervention, that opresseth, where souls are the possession of God, whom shall redeem as he pleases, and that, To God alone, Psa 10:18 judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress. It Is a shame to Men, that souls are made to Live Life in hell  , only to depart to obtain mercy, and rest, with the hope they have in a powerful God. How Long before the earth can see thru the spit and mud John plasters over the eyes of creation?

Hi Charity

Good analogy!
It was the spit and mud of Yeshua that healed the blind man and opened his eyes to see!  

WJ

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