JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[Jodi Lee]

17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

It is NOT a preconceived idea that in the OT a promise was given unto Israel of a man that would be a savior, through being ANOINTED with God's Spirit and thus would be called Messiah or Christ. Jesus was indeed anointed with God's Holy Spirit at the river, and it was from then that he WAS SENT out into the world to perform miracles and teach the word of God.

When we read CHRIST we should always identify that word as representing the ANOINTED human being Jesus!!

Let's make this clear, the GLORY that Jesus received from God was a MAN being raised from the dead! The glory represents eternal life to HUMAN BEINGS! This glory was promised before time began. The anointed did not exist before time began, the anointed or rather making of Jesus Christ occurred well after time began!

Jesus, the man on the cross, is clearly asking for the glory that God promised man before the world was, which was eternal life!

I guess I should tie this into “the WORD” so I am not off topic!

the “WORD” that became flesh, was the PROMISE of God being fulfilled.

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 25 2013,11:32)

Jodi Lee, Welcome back! From what I have gained from researching about the Logos of John 1:1, the Word of the Lord was a very familiar expression to the Jews which you can see in the Jewish Targums. John was referring to that 'Word' that they were very familiar with. Quote In Aramaic, a standard term for word is memra. The Aramaic Targums, however, often use memra as a technical term referring to a personification of divine power and presence. The Targums consistently add the phrase “Memra/word of God” to passages in Genesis 1 describing God’s creative acts. 15 For example, while the Hebrew Bible reads “And God said, let there be light” (Gen 1.3), the Aramaic Targum reads “And the Memra/word of God said, let there be light.” Variants on this pattern continue throughout Genesis 1. Other allusions to creation in the Targums follow a similar practice. Genesis 14.19 in Hebrew reads “Blessed be Abraham by God Most High, creator of heaven and earth,” while in Aramaic it reads: “Blessed be Abraham by God Most High,who by his Memra/Word created heaven and earth.” The Isaiah Targums likewise often add the phrase “by my Memra/word ” when describing God creating the world (Isa28.13, 44.24, 45.12). 16 Thus, in the Aramaic Bible–the translation of the Bible with which most Judeans at the time of Jesus would be familiar–the Memra/Word is consistently described as being with God in the beginning, and creating all things. This is precisely how the Logos concept is described in John 1, where John replaces the Aramaic term memra with its Greek equivalent, logos. Thus, for Aramaic speaking Jews of the first century, John’s Word theology would not have seemed like a radical new idea at all, but a standard way they had already heard creation by the Memra/Word described. What would have been a very radical new idea for mostJews, however, was that John equated this Memra/Logos/Word with Jesus the Messiah, who became flesh (Jn 1.14). source: http://www.academia.edu/401415/John_1.1-5

Thanks for the welcome and post, very interesting!

It has been argued that the early Christian doctrine reflects Greek Myths because those in charge of creating the doctrine, that was demanded to be believed by all, was established by men who loved Greek philosophy, and hated the Hebrews.

[terraricca]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 25 2013,22:10)

Quote (terraricca @ June 25 2013,12:29) JODI Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— verse 16 says that all things were created through him IF HE WAS NOT THERE HOW COULD THIS BE AND WHY COULD CHRIST BE THE ONE THAT CAN RECONCILED ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH AND WHY DID IT TOOK ;THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE POWER OF GOD TO BRING CHRIST TO HIS BIRTH FROM A WOMEN Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. He who? There is a difference between some pre-existing immortal being, and the man who was in every way like us but yet became perfected through suffering. Genesis and Apostle Paul tells us that MAN was created in the image of God.  I could not imagine Jesus being exactly the image of God until he was made perfect, can you? ALL scriptures referring to a person being the image of God refer specifically to a human being.   The firstborn over all creation? Colossians itself identifies WHICH creation the MAN that is the image of God is firstborn over all, the new heaven and earth established for those raised from the dead! Colossians specifies it for us telling us that … “And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead.” 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. 2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Never once does Colossians speak of some spirit being that transformed himself into a human.  All scriptures must be read in the context that they are referring to the MAN Jesus, not a spirit being that became Jesus. 2 Timothy 1:8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, “For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.” There is a HUGE difference as to who this is speaking of and what that MEANS TO US! Does the surrounding scripture talk about the glory of some spirit being before creation?.. . NO! The entire scripture is referring to the MAN that died on the cross. God created all things through the plan of the coming Messiah, God created all things for the Messiah.  God created all things through the knowledge of the MAN He would perfect. God created all things for the PERFECTED MAN.   ————————– It took the Holy Spirit and the power of God to bring John the baptist as well as other OT children!! ————————— Why did it take the Messiah to reconcile all things? Romans 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned– 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

Jodi

why are all of you skipping verse 16 and 17 from Col;1

it seems to me if you are truthful and right in what you say ,it would also reflect in the total understanding of the scriptures ,and then go for other scriptures support ,

but your view becomes to nothing sins your are interpreting those scriptures according to your own personal views,

how could a man (Jesus Christ )be existing before all things and yet 4000 years ad already past before he came .

how is that ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH

how is it that he is the firstborn of creation and also the first

born among the dead

all those questions have to be answered within your understanding and be coherent with the entire scriptures ,please can you do that

[Lightenup]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 25 2013,13:45)

Quote (Lightenup @ June 25 2013,11:32) Jodi Lee, Welcome back! From what I have gained from researching about the Logos of John 1:1, the Word of the Lord was a very familiar expression to the Jews which you can see in the Jewish Targums. John was referring to that 'Word' that they were very familiar with. Quote In Aramaic, a standard term for word is memra. The Aramaic Targums, however, often use memra as a technical term referring to a personification of divine power and presence. The Targums consistently add the phrase “Memra/word of God” to passages in Genesis 1 describing God’s creative acts. 15 For example, while the Hebrew Bible reads “And God said, let there be light” (Gen 1.3), the Aramaic Targum reads “And the Memra/word of God said, let there be light.” Variants on this pattern continue throughout Genesis 1. Other allusions to creation in the Targums follow a similar practice. Genesis 14.19 in Hebrew reads “Blessed be Abraham by God Most High, creator of heaven and earth,” while in Aramaic it reads: “Blessed be Abraham by God Most High,who by his Memra/Word created heaven and earth.” The Isaiah Targums likewise often add the phrase “by my Memra/word ” when describing God creating the world (Isa28.13, 44.24, 45.12). 16 Thus, in the Aramaic Bible–the translation of the Bible with which most Judeans at the time of Jesus would be familiar–the Memra/Word is consistently described as being with God in the beginning, and creating all things. This is precisely how the Logos concept is described in John 1, where John replaces the Aramaic term memra with its Greek equivalent, logos. Thus, for Aramaic speaking Jews of the first century, John’s Word theology would not have seemed like a radical new idea at all, but a standard way they had already heard creation by the Memra/Word described. What would have been a very radical new idea for mostJews, however, was that John equated this Memra/Logos/Word with Jesus the Messiah, who became flesh (Jn 1.14). source: http://www.academia.edu/401415/John_1.1-5 Thanks for the welcome and post, very interesting! It has been argued that the early Christian doctrine reflects Greek Myths because those in charge of creating the doctrine, that was demanded to be believed by all, was established by men who loved Greek philosophy, and hated the Hebrews.

Hi Jodi,
You are welcome. It has been a very interesting study for me to look at the Targums which reflect Jewish understanding before the time of Christ regarding the 'Word of YHVH.' I put up a thread that has Michael Heiser, academic editor at Logos Bible Software, teaching about the plurality of God in six videos. He talks about the Targums and their understanding of the 'Word of YHVH' and examines other historical documents and literature before Christ came.

That thread with the link to the videos is here:
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=4437

Heiser indicates that the Jews had an understanding of two powers in Heaven. The Jews later supposedly discounted this as heresy after realizing that it gave support to the Christian religion. Segal, a Jew who has not accepted Christ as the Messiah, wrote about this in his book “The Two Powers in Heaven.” It is sold at Amazon and you can read a little about it here:

http://www.amazon.com/Two-Pow….+heaven

This is a small bit about the book:

Quote

Segal sheds light upon the development of and relationships among early Christianity, Gnosticism, and Merkabah mysticism and demonstrates that belief in the “two powers in heaven” was widespread by the first century, and may have been a catalyst for the Jewish rejection of early Christianity.

So, this shows that the plurality of God was an understanding that the Jews had before Christ came.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 24 2013,20:57)

……..it's not us who are twisting scripture to say what they don't say , it's you , Mike and the other Trinitarians and Preexistence here……….

But isn't it you guys who have to ADD the word “IN” into John 1:14, making it say, “the Word came to be IN flesh” – because you don't like the teaching as it was written?

Isn't it you guys who pretend you can't see the sequence of events in Phil 2:6-8?  

1.  Existing in the form of God.
2.  Emptied himself.
3.  Was made in the likeness of a human being.

You guys pretend that all three of these things happened simultaneously, as if Jesus was already a human being WHEN he was in the form of God and WHEN he was made into the likeness of a human being.

And isn't it you guys who have to ADD the word “NEW” into Col 1:15-18, imagining that only the NEW creation was created through Jesus?

Isn't it you guys who have to ADD the word “weak” into Hebrews 5:7, because you don't like the fact that the writer of Hebrews is clearly indicating that Jesus is no longer “in the days of his flesh”?

Isn't it you guys who have to imagine John 17:5 speaks of a glory God had waiting for Jesus, even though Jesus clearly says it was a glory “HE HAD” in the presence of God before the world began?

Gene, I could go on and on and on with the sometimes crazy things that you, Kerwin, and Marty have had to claim in an effort to “prevent” the scriptures that speak of the pre-existence of Jesus from saying what they clearly say.

So who's really twisting the scriptures around here?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 25 2013,11:45)

The fact of the matter is, the flesh that is being spoken about was indeed weak flesh, right? We can agree to that?….he cried with vehement cries, he was tempted just like we are. I prefer that we debate by giving scripture and seeing who's understanding makes the most sense by those scriptures.

Well, Jesus was made in the likeness of a human being, right?  So whatever flesh a human being has is whatever flesh Jesus had, I assume.

And it seems we both agree that Jesus does not exist in that particular flesh anymore, right?

So the difference seems to be that YOU believe Jesus now has some other kind of flesh – a kind that CAN enter the kingdom of heaven – while I believe he is flesh no more.

According to your own guidelines in the quote box above, which understanding makes the most sense in light of Hebrews 5:7…………. WITHOUT adding the word “weak” into that verse?

Also, in what scripture can we read about this “heavenly flesh”?  Where can we learn about this special kind of flesh that CAN inherit the kingdom of God?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 24 2013,19:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 25 2013,11:13) I will set up a “Mike and Jodi ONLY” debate thread where we can take these things a little at a time.  That way, if you leave for a while, you won't be bogged down with a million new posts since you last posted. Okay Mike, that sounds good. I have the summer off, so I won't be going anywhere too soon! I will work on making my posts shorter, ha, I do remember that bothering you before!!

Okay Jodi,

Here is the thread.

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

But isn't it you guys who have to ADD the word “IN” into John 1:14, making it say, “the Word came to be IN flesh” – because you don't like the teaching as it was written?

Are you now claiming Jesus did not come in the flesh?

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (terraricca @ June 26 2013,08:55)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 25 2013,22:10) Quote (terraricca @ June 25 2013,12:29) JODI Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— verse 16 says that all things were created through him IF HE WAS NOT THERE HOW COULD THIS BE AND WHY COULD CHRIST BE THE ONE THAT CAN RECONCILED ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH AND WHY DID IT TOOK ;THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE POWER OF GOD TO BRING CHRIST TO HIS BIRTH FROM A WOMEN Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. He who? There is a difference between some pre-existing immortal being, and the man who was in every way like us but yet became perfected through suffering. Genesis and Apostle Paul tells us that MAN was created in the image of God.  I could not imagine Jesus being exactly the image of God until he was made perfect, can you? ALL scriptures referring to a person being the image of God refer specifically to a human being.   The firstborn over all creation? Colossians itself identifies WHICH creation the MAN that is the image of God is firstborn over all, the new heaven and earth established for those raised from the dead! Colossians specifies it for us telling us that … “And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead.” 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. 2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Never once does Colossians speak of some spirit being that transformed himself into a human.  All scriptures must be read in the context that they are referring to the MAN Jesus, not a spirit being that became Jesus. 2 Timothy 1:8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, “For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.” There is a HUGE difference as to who this is speaking of and what that MEANS TO US! Does the surrounding scripture talk about the glory of some spirit being before creation?.. . NO! The entire scripture is referring to the MAN that died on the cross. God created all things through the plan of the coming Messiah, God created all things for the Messiah.  God created all things through the knowledge of the MAN He would perfect. God created all things for the PERFECTED MAN.   ————————– It took the Holy Spirit and the power of God to bring John the baptist as well as other OT children!! ————————— Why did it take the Messiah to reconcile all things? Romans 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned– 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. Jodi why are all of you skipping verse 16 and 17 from Col;1 it seems to me if you are truthful and right in what you say ,it would also reflect in the total understanding of the scriptures ,and then go for other scriptures support , but your view becomes to nothing sins your are interpreting those scriptures according to your own personal views, how could a man (Jesus Christ )be existing before all things and yet 4000 years ad already past before he came . how is that ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH how is it that he is the firstborn of creation and also the first born among the dead   all those questions have to be answered within your understanding and be coherent with the entire scriptures ,please can you do that

Colossians 1:16-17. I didn't skip it I quoted it and explained it.

If you could address specifically what I said in that post and explain why you disagree with my points and how I have interpreted those scriptures, I think that would make a good debate.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 25 2013,10:37)

Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2013,20:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 24 2013,13:00) Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2013,16:28) “he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood”   …means… “their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments” (Isa 63:3) That could be, Ed.  It seems the commentators agree with that thought. But isn't this rider in Rev 19 already wearing a robe dipped in blood BEFORE the battle even begins?  How could it be THEIR blood before the battle has even started? Hi Mike, I like when you attempt to use commentators to prove your belief – then totally discard them when you disagree.   Does that not PROVE that their commentaries MEAN NOTHING?         (<– please answer)                 No Ed, (1)It means that sometimes even expert commentators miss things.  Sometimes they are led by personal desires, such as the desire for Jesus to be the very God he is the Son of.  So sometimes, for various reasons, they are wrong. Most of them have read the scriptures backwards and forwards for years, in English, Greek, and Hebrew.  They have a lot of helpful knowledge.  But they are just men.  And like us, they are prone to mistakes on occasion. Now, would you address MY point that DIDN'T come from any commentator? (2)How could it be THEIR blood before the battle even began?

Hi Mike,

1) Thanks, and a nice explanation at that! I appreciate this yype of response.

2) “Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength?
      I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. 2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
      3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in
      my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. 4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart,
      and the year of my redeemed is come. 5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold:
      therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. 6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger,
      and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.” (Isaiah 63:1-6)

      This is symbolic language referring to spiritual warfare
      rather than physical as you or others may be assuming.

      The term “their blood” – I believe refers to their covering
      which is Jesus' blood; in that manor it is in harmony with
      Rev.19:13 & Rev.19:15. Blood is the HolySpirit's covering.

Now bringing their strength to the ground – refers to Lucifer, which is a
false strength, because they are all drunk on his false promises of vanity.

Your brother    
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 25 2013,20:33)

Mike, Quote But isn't it you guys who have to ADD the word “IN” into John 1:14, making it say, “the Word came to be IN flesh” – because you don't like the teaching as it was written? Are you now claiming Jesus did not come in the flesh?

Nope. Just demonstrating how we don't have to ADD our own words into John 1:14 in an attempt to make that verse teach what we WANT it to teach…… like you guys do.

[mikeboll64]

Ed,

Thanks for the compliment. But your post doesn't answer my question…… which was:

How could the blood on the robe of the rider of the white horse be from a battle that hadn't yet begun?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2013,05:54)

Quote (kerwin @ June 25 2013,20:33) Mike, Quote But isn't it you guys who have to ADD the word “IN” into John 1:14, making it say, “the Word came to be IN flesh” – because you don't like the teaching as it was written? Are you now claiming Jesus did not come in the flesh? Nope.  Just demonstrating how we don't have to ADD our own words into John 1:14 in an attempt to make that verse teach what we WANT it to teach……  like you guys do.

Mike,

The situation is that is what you are doing when you claim Jesus was made flesh = Jesus came in the flesh.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,17:23)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2013,05:54) Quote (kerwin @ June 25 2013,20:33) Mike, Quote But isn't it you guys who have to ADD the word “IN” into John 1:14, making it say, “the Word came to be IN flesh” – because you don't like the teaching as it was written? Are you now claiming Jesus did not come in the flesh? Nope.  Just demonstrating how we don't have to ADD our own words into John 1:14 in an attempt to make that verse teach what we WANT it to teach……  like you guys do. Mike, The situation is that is what you are doing when you claim Jesus was made flesh = Jesus came in the flesh.

K

Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jn 1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”

who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?…….

Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

Jn 1:26 “I baptize with water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know.
Jn 1:27 He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”

Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

so please answer my question

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ June 27 2013,21:30)

K Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?……. Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known. Jn 1:26 “I baptize with water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. Jn 1:27 He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.” Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! so please answer my question

T,

Quote

who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?…….

John is using John the Baptist's words to teach of the attributes of Jesus.  One is that Jesus is the Light of man, another is that he is the Word of God, yet another is he is a human being.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,23:51)

Quote (terraricca @ June 27 2013,21:30) K Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?……. Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known. Jn 1:26 “I baptize with water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. Jn 1:27 He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.” Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! so please answer my question T, Quote who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?……. John is using John the Baptist's words to teach of the attributes of Jesus.  One is that Jesus is the Light of man, another is that he is the Word of God, yet another is he is a human being.

K

why do you have to interpret what as not to be ;you did not answer my question ,

and you pick some kind of weird approach to all those scriptures very strange,

and you are also take the wrong explanation for Christ being the light ,

this is were we can see honesty ,and truthfulness of those whom we ask for answers before God presence

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,00:10)

Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,23:51) Quote (terraricca @ June 27 2013,21:30) K Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?……. Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known. Jn 1:26 “I baptize with water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. Jn 1:27 He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.” Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! so please answer my question T, Quote who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?……. John is using John the Baptist's words to teach of the attributes of Jesus.  One is that Jesus is the Light of man, another is that he is the Word of God, yet another is he is a human being. K why do you have to interpret what as not to be ;you did not answer my question , and you pick some kind of weird approach to all those scriptures very strange, and you are also take the wrong explanation for Christ being the light , this is were we can see honesty ,and truthfulness of those whom we ask for answers before God presence

T,

The viewpoint of the 1st Century is alien to the viewpoint of the 21st Century.

I did answer you question in such a way to avoid being misunderstood. It seems it is not the way you desired.

You seem to understand that love is an attribute of God and yet you are not understanding that light is an attribute of Jesus. I do not know why that is nor have I any power to change it.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,01:09)

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,00:10) Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,23:51) Quote (terraricca @ June 27 2013,21:30) K Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?……. Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known. Jn 1:26 “I baptize with water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. Jn 1:27 He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.” Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! so please answer my question T, Quote who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?……. John is using John the Baptist's words to teach of the attributes of Jesus.  One is that Jesus is the Light of man, another is that he is the Word of God, yet another is he is a human being. K why do you have to interpret what as not to be ;you did not answer my question , and you pick some kind of weird approach to all those scriptures very strange, and you are also take the wrong explanation for Christ being the light , this is were we can see honesty ,and truthfulness of those whom we ask for answers before God presence T, The viewpoint of the 1st Century is alien to the viewpoint of the 21st Century. I did answer you question in such a way to avoid being misunderstood.  It seems it is not the way you desired. You seem to understand that love is an attribute of God and yet you are not understanding that light is an attribute of Jesus.  I do not know why that is nor have I any power to change it.

Kerwin

is God change ;scriptures says God almighty is the same in the beginning and at the end of things HE (GOD) NEVER CHANGES ,

SO YOU ARE LOST

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,02:43)

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,01:09) Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,00:10) Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,23:51) Quote (terraricca @ June 27 2013,21:30) K Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?……. Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known. Jn 1:26 “I baptize with water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. Jn 1:27 He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.” Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! so please answer my question T, Quote who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?……. John is using John the Baptist's words to teach of the attributes of Jesus.  One is that Jesus is the Light of man, another is that he is the Word of God, yet another is he is a human being. K why do you have to interpret what as not to be ;you did not answer my question , and you pick some kind of weird approach to all those scriptures very strange, and you are also take the wrong explanation for Christ being the light , this is were we can see honesty ,and truthfulness of those whom we ask for answers before God presence T, The viewpoint of the 1st Century is alien to the viewpoint of the 21st Century. I did answer you question in such a way to avoid being misunderstood.  It seems it is not the way you desired. You seem to understand that love is an attribute of God and yet you are not understanding that light is an attribute of Jesus.  I do not know why that is nor have I any power to change it. Kerwin       is God change ;scriptures says God almighty is the same in the beginning and at the end of things HE (GOD) NEVER CHANGES , SO YOU ARE LOST

T,

The fact that we are not the ones that the various books of Scripture are written to does not mean God changes. It is us that must change our viewpoint in order to understand Scripture.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,02:53)

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,02:43) Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,01:09) Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,00:10) Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,23:51) Quote (terraricca @ June 27 2013,21:30) K Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?……. Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known. Jn 1:26 “I baptize with water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. Jn 1:27 He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.” Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! so please answer my question T, Quote who is the person that JB talks about ONE NAME PLEASE ;?……. John is using John the Baptist's words to teach of the attributes of Jesus.  One is that Jesus is the Light of man, another is that he is the Word of God, yet another is he is a human being. K why do you have to interpret what as not to be ;you did not answer my question , and you pick some kind of weird approach to all those scriptures very strange, and you are also take the wrong explanation for Christ being the light , this is were we can see honesty ,and truthfulness of those whom we ask for answers before God presence T, The viewpoint of the 1st Century is alien to the viewpoint of the 21st Century. I did answer you question in such a way to avoid being misunderstood.  It seems it is not the way you desired. You seem to understand that love is an attribute of God and yet you are not understanding that light is an attribute of Jesus.  I do not know why that is nor have I any power to change it. Kerwin       is God change ;scriptures says God almighty is the same in the beginning and at the end of things HE (GOD) NEVER CHANGES , SO YOU ARE LOST T, The fact that we are not the ones that the various books of Scripture are written to does not mean God changes.  It is us that must change our viewpoint in order to understand Scripture.

k

WE DO NOT HAVE TO CHANGE OUR VIEW POINT ,

only if we want to follow and obey to his rules ,

rules that as never changed sins Adam and Noah

the scriptures are only written to those who believe them,that simple

Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Jn 3:11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
Jn 3:12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

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