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Hi Irene,
He was a mere man.
A man is a man, none are born sinless supermen.
He came here with no inbuilt advantages or we can't follow him
A mere man given a caring upbringing by his father such that he did not sin.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 07 2008,21:53) Hi Irene,
He was a mere man.
A man is a man, none are born sinless supermen.
He came here with no inbuilt advantages or we can't follow him
A mere man given a caring upbringing by his father such that he did not sin.
Nick Yes, His upbringing was much, much different, that is why He would not sin. We, not one of us, had that kind of upbringing. IMO He had therefore an easier time obeying God.
Peace and Love IreneHi Irene,
Not so sure about that either.
Heb12
5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Is53
1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Hi Nick,
Show us where in scriptures that Jesus wasn't holy and had to be chastened so that He might be a partaker of holiness. He was born holy ya know. Jesus is an exception, He was perfect. He had to learn obedience as a man but that doesn't mean that He was ever disobedient. If you disagree please show us that Jesus was disobedient and in what circumstance with chapter and verse.Also, He had no exceptional beauty when He was a man so that man wouldn't come to Him on that alone.
Furthermore, He was despised and rejected of men when He was in the process of crucifixion. Other than that He was so revered that He became a threat. People came from all over to meet Him, they lined the streets waving palm branches as He rode down their streets, He in fact was becoming so popular that He was a threat to the government and those in high places.
Nick, were you born holy? Jesus was. Also, what do you think His role in creation was.
LUHi LU,
We cannot follow a perfect man because we are not.
This demigod status is not of scripture.Luke 1:70
As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:Hi Nick,
Orrrrrrr Hebrews 12 is referring to those who were not holy sons which is all His sons that were foreknown to be adopted. We know beyond a shadow of doubt that Jesus is clearly God's son who was born holy and already partaking in God's holiness. That is written.No where is it written that Jesus was being chastened by His Father. Don't presume. Remember 2-3 witnesses establish the truth. You have given no verses that show Jesus being chastened.
LUHi all,
I posted this in pre-existense and I don't think that it got the attention it deserved so I am putting it here.Read through this passage to see if you can tell me who the “I” is here. Don't miss v. 16.
Isa 48:12-16
12
“Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.
13 “Surely My hand founded the earth,
And My right hand spread out the heavens;
When I call to them, they stand together.
14 ” Assemble, all of you, and listen!
Who among them has declared these things?
The LORD loves him; he will carry out His good pleasure on Babylon,
And His arm will be against the Chaldeans.
15 “I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him,
I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful.
16 ” Come near to Me, listen to this:
From the first I have not spoken in secret,
From the time it took place, I was there.
And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.”
NASUHere this might help:
Heb 1:8-108 But of the Son He says…….
10 “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
NASUThe First and the Last is also spoken of here:
Rev 1:17-1917 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, ” Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
NASUNotice that the one who says that “I am the first and the last” was dead at one point.
In summary, could the answer be the only begotten Son of God? Whoever the “I” is, spread out the heavens and his hand founded the earth and then later, the Lord God sent Him and His Spirit.
LU
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 08 2008,16:42) Hi Nick,
Orrrrrrr Hebrews 12 is referring to those who were not holy sons which is all His sons that were foreknown to be adopted. We know beyond a shadow of doubt that Jesus is clearly God's son who was born holy and already partaking in God's holiness. That is written.No where is it written that Jesus was being chastened by His Father. Don't presume. Remember 2-3 witnesses establish the truth. You have given no verses that show Jesus being chastened.
LU
Hi LU,
And his appearance in Is 53 was not to do with suffering?God made sure his son obeyed every detail despite being tested in every way we are.
Where scripturally does temptation come from?[Jas]
Was he an overcomer?
Scripture calls him suchNick,
He suffered alright but not from chastening. He suffered from mental and physical abuse from those He was willing to die for. No doubt He overcame. He overcame the right to call down thousands of angels for His defense. He overcame temptation from satan. He overcame the urge to return evil for evil, etc.
LUHi LU,
Grief was included.
That would perhaps be for Joseph which was before his anointing?Overcame the right???
HmmmWe follow him, as overcomers
Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.Hi Nick,
Maybe it is better said that He overcame making an appeal for help. He had the right to do that I do believe. That is what makes His willingness to die even more amazing.Matt 26:53-54
53 “Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?
NASULU
Hi LU,
So where does sin originate?[Jas]
If he overcame sin in the flesh we can follow him in the same power.Rom8
Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:No supernman with a head start but a man like us that we can love.
Nick,
I guess we are a party of two here tonight. Are you wearing your party hat. Maybe it is afternoon in NZ-an early happy hour for you then, eh?Anyway, grieving , yes Jesus grieved but not from chastening by His Father.
So who is the “I” in Is 48:12-16??
LUHi Nick,
Well, the origin of sin, hmmm. Satan's pride, yes that's it which led to disobedience.
Your turn.Here I am. Who is the ” I ” Jesus IMO.
You know why I think Jesus grieved? IMO because of all the unbelief and sinful man that surrounded Him.
But I still believe that Jesus was different then all of us. I believe that if He would have been like us, He would have failed and sinned. I just cant see it any other way. If we believe Scripture, then if all have fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus never did fall short of that, even tho He gave up that glory.
I don't know anybody else who had or has God's Holy Spirit full strength, do you?Peace and Love Irene
Hi LU,
James 1
1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.2My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
…
12Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16Do not err, my beloved brethren.
He was tempted from within like any man.
He overcameQuote (Lightenup @ Sep. 08 2008,17:32) Nick,
I guess we are a party of two here tonight. Are you wearing your party hat. Maybe it is afternoon in NZ-an early happy hour for you then, eh?Anyway, grieving , yes Jesus grieved but not from chastening by His Father.
So who is the “I” in Is 48:12-16??
LU
Hi Lu,
The Word I would say.Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 07 2008,11:31) He emptied himself. *It's still questioned just what he emptied* Taking the form of a bond servant. *He became poor so that he could reach us*
Being made in the likeness of men. *He was born to Mary, a human being*
To me, this passage has never meant that Jesus lived prior to his birth. It could simply mean that he emptied himself of his pride (as Paul is admonishing everyone to do in context), that he took a low position among us, and that even though he is the Son of God (who is Spirit) – he was made like us.
At this point I am relying on my own experience with Jesus and with God. If I were to rely on the Scriptures alone I would be on a merry-go-round that never stopped! There are just too many interpretations available to any one passage.
Talk about AMBIGUOUS!
Mandy
It says he existed in the form of God or with divine nature and then made himself of no reputation and took upon him flesh.So if he partakes of human nature and becomes human, then it probably doesn't require much imagination as to what he left and what he took on. It is there for all to read.
Philippians 2:6-7 (King James Version)
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:Philippians 2:6 (New International Version)
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:- Was in the form of God, or had divine nature.
- Demoted himself to become a man
- Humbled himself to the point of death
- Raised up to the right hand of God
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