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Hi Charles,
The Father is not also the Son otherwise He could have opened the seals on the scroll of Rev 5. Only the Son could open the seals, not even the Father. The Father did not become the kinsman redeemer who had to be human. The Son became human and was the second Adam. The second Adam redeemed what the first Adam lost.Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 17 2012,13:12) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 15 2012,21:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 16 2012,07:27) Pierre,
jammin is not saying that the two who are both God natured are only one person. One is not the other. The Father is not the Son and visa versa.Also, regarding the Jews and Gentiles that are believers, they make up ONE new man (singular), neither Jew nor Gentile.
Eph 2:14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
So mankind is one in human nature and believers are one in Him (Jesus) as one new man. The idea of unity abounds through scripture where more than one is together as one.
Kathithis is good and agree with
Pierre,
That's nice to agree on something
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 17 2012,12:22) Hi Charles,
The Father is not also the Son otherwise He could have opened the seals on the scroll of Rev 5. Only the Son could open the seals, not even the Father.
Hi Lu,Im going to have to pull a “Mike” on you.
Rev 5 makes no mention that the “Father” couldn't open the seal.You claim that the “Father” and “Son” are not one of the same because you speculate the “Father” couldn't open the seal in Rev 5. which is a conjecture on your part.
In other words your creating the assertion that the Father “couldn't” open the seal, though the idea of such a notion is no where to be found.
Which means you couldn't claim that The “Father” and “Son” are not one and the same because The “Father” couldn't open the seal when actually there is nothing evident to say God couldn't if He wanted to.
(Which He did, since Lord Jesus is God.)
Dennison
Hi Dennison,
You're beliefs are now slowly coming back to me…:)Wasn't the Father in heaven when He held that scroll? Doesn't it say that “no one in heaven” could open the scroll except the Lamb?
Rev 5:1Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
The Father did not become flesh, it was the Son whom He sent, the only begotten God. The Father could not be the begotten God AND the unbegotten God.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 15 2012,00:00) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2012,16:55) Mike, I am saying that when properly used the meaning of Godhead is the same as the words “theios”, “theiotes”, or “theotes”.
Kerwin,It seems obvious to me that you can't find any current scholarly support for the translation of “Godhead” in those three KJV verses – or you would have shown that support by now.
So tell me, what does the word “Godhead” have to do with “divine nature”, or “diety”?
If “diety” just means the same thing as “god” means, then where exactly does the word “Godhead” fit in? And what does that word mean? Ie: What does it mean to say Jehovah is a “Godhead”?
Mike,You seem to be used to the Trinitarian definition, and their definition is a lie, and thus does not apply to Scripture.
They all support it as far as I know. They just believe the change in language has made its use unclear. Barnes uses it here
Quote It does not meet the case to say, as Crellius does, that the “whole divine will was in him,” for the word θεότη theotē – “godhead” – does not mean the will of God; and it is as certainly true that the inspired prophets were under the control of the divine will, as that the Saviour was. He is obvious a biased Trinitarian.
All you need to do is go to 2 or 3 reputable dictionaries and you will discover Godhead has the necessary meaning; even in this late day.
Godhead is a title just like Divine is and means the same thing. Jehovah is Godhead(Divine) and has Godhead(divinity). I am uncomfortable using “a” as “the” seems more appropriate.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 17 2012,12:53) Hi Dennison,
You're beliefs are now slowly coming back to me…:)Wasn't the Father in heaven when He held that scroll? Doesn't it say that “no one in heaven” could open the scroll except the Lamb?
Rev 5:1Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
The Father did not become flesh, it was the Son whom He sent, the only begotten God. The Father could not be the begotten God AND the unbegotten God.
Lu,Your going to have to tell me what translation your are quoting from.
King James says:5 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Again you saying so, doesn't make it so.
I understand what you believe, I disagree so obviously we bring up contentions to understand why.
To add LU:
Οὐδεὶς (Oudeis) The greek word used for “no one” or “no man” in the KJV. Is used through the bible.
Question:
The same word is also used here:Young's Literal Translation: Rev 19:12
and his eyes are as a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems — having a name written that no one hath known, except himselfSo than does that mean the “father” as you cliam doesn't know that name as well?
Than does this mean you believe that the Father is not omniscience, since there is something that He doesn't know??
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 14 2012,13:59) Mike,
I think Paul is not using the word 'God' in vs. 6 as a name but as a description of a nature. In vs. 9 he uses it as a name of a particular person, God the Father……………….
Before jumping to verse 9, let's discuss the second “God” in verse 6, okay?To whom or what does that “God” refer?
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 14 2012,14:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,13:02) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 13 2012,17:57) I see God in some contexts as meaning the highest authority which could be more than one person existing in unity with another, acting in unity with another (what one does, the other cooperates), and both having authority together over all creation.
That's also how the pagans see their gods, Kathi. Hmmmmm………
Mike,
There is no perfect unity in pagan gods.
Are you saying that of all the pagan gods, there are no two of them who get along or have “unity” with each other?Quote (jammin @ Oct. 14 2012,18:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,06:18) Quote (jammin @ Oct. 13 2012,02:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2012,10:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,15:55) Hi Charles,
I asked Mike how many 'theos' are to be known, believed in, served, honored, and praised in order to have eternal salvation.Hey Charles and jammin……………………….
When are you guys going to answer Kathi's question with a NUMERICAL answer?
HOW MANY?
there is ONE GOD THE FATHERthere is one GOD THE ONLY SON!
that is the answer mike. we told you about this a long long time ago
Well jammin,One plus one equals TWO, right? So are you saying we have TWO Almighty Gods? YES or NO?
TWO persons
but one in nature, GOD.
But Kathi is not asking how many PERSONS are to be known, believed in, served, honored, and praised in order to have eternal salvation, is she?She's asking how many GODS, right?
Please answer HER question as she asked it.
HOW MANY GODS, JAMMIN?
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 15 2012,00:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 15 2012,04:00) All things were created by God alone…………… THROUGH His holy Servant Jesus Christ. Mike,
PERFECT:
YOU HAVE JUST ADMITTED THAT JESUS IS GOD.
ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY GOD ALONE!!!
THEN YOU ADMIT:
THROUGH JESUS CHRIST!!!
SO NOT ALONE!!!
OR SINCE THERE'S THE WORD “ALONE” AND ALSO “THROUGH JESUS CHRIST” IT IS A PROOF THAT JESUS IS ALSO GOD!!!
Hmmm………………I believe God created Cain ALONE too, right? Yet He did that THROUGH Eve, right?
Apparently Eve is also God then?
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 16 2012,13:41) mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Do you understand that it makes no sense to say “God was in God”? Do you understand that for God to be in someone, that someone has to be someone OTHER THAN God? Mike,
YOU ALSO ASKED:Quote How is it that you can speak such scriptural truth, but then turn around and claim that Jesus WAS the very God who was IN him? Now:
Do you agree then that THE SPIRIT OF GOD WAS IN JESUS’ SOUL???Peace and Love in Jesus
Charles
Scripture doesn't specifically say the Spirit of God was in Jesus' soul, Charles.But either way, the points I made above are valid. If God was IN Jesus' soul, then it proves that Jesus was someone OTHER THAN the God who was IN his soul.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 17 2012,01:22) Only the Son could open the seals, not even the Father.
That's like saying God needed on faithful human being from whom to form His nation. He couldn't do it Himself, and therefore NEEDED Abraham – as if Abraham could do something God couldn't do.God can open or seal any scroll He wants, Kathi. He was waiting for someone OTHER THAN Him who was worthy to open the scroll. That doesn't mean God COULDN'T open the scroll Himself.
What, now you're no longer happy with your illusion that Jesus and his God are eqauls? Now you have to place Jesus HIGHER than his own God in certain areas?
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 17 2012,01:38) Hi Lu, Im going to have to pull a “Mike” on you.
Rev 5 makes no mention that the “Father” couldn't open the seal.
Oops. Seems like Dennison beat me to the punch on that one. (I answer these posts AS I read them, from earliest to latest. Sometimes I answer before seeing someone else has already said the same thing.)Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 17 2012,03:27) Godhead is a title just like Divine is and means the same thing.
No Kerwin,The word “Godhead” is NOT a synonym of “divine”. The word “Godhead” is a word that was MADE UP by Trinitiarians who were trying to prove that God is three persons in one “Godhead” – whatever that means.
It is NOT an accurate translation of any of the Greek words the KJV translates it from. It is a “non-word”, and has no meaning whatsoever.
I'm done discussing this asinine non-subject with you.
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 14 2012,10:33) Mike, That’s what is wrong with you as I already told you.
You always compare God, and Jesus with MORTAL SINFUL CREATURES.
Solomon and David are two INDIVDUAL identical CARNAL CREATURES IN EVERY SENSE.
Okay,Let's change it to “Michael AND Gabriel” then. Am I speaking about TWO individual beings?
How about “Jesus AND Gabriel”? One being, or two?
How about “God AND Gabriel”? One being, or two?
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 17 2012,16:07) Young's Literal Translation: Rev 19:12
and his eyes are as a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems — having a name written that no one hath known, except himselfSo than does that mean the “father” as you cliam doesn't know that name as well?
Good point, D.Kathi must also consider 1 Cor 15:27……..
Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.Obviously, the same would apply concerning the scroll, ie: When it says NO ONE in heaven could open the scroll, it is clear this doesn't include God, who sealed the scroll in the first place, or His Lamb, who was obviously also “someone in heaven” who DID open the scroll.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 18 2012,16:26) there is ONE GOD THE FATHER there is one GOD THE ONLY SON!
TWO persons
but one in nature, GOD.
She's asking how many GODS, right?Please answer HER question as she asked it.
HOW MANY GODS, JAMMIN?
Mike,He will not answer.
He will answer the wrong way.
He will never answer your question faithfully.
He even despising and discarding the Son, teaching that the only true God, is the Father alone and not the Son.
See his style, see how he cheated himself by not putting the words “only true God, the Father.
He is insisting at any rate that the Son is truly God and also the Father is truly God.
He is insisting two persons composing the only true God, and later on and so on,.. they shall become three persons composing the only true God. adding the holy spirit.
He is disregarding the other passages of the Bible that did not in conformity with his stand. He loved very much the verses he thought and understood wrongfully.
The Son, said: “my Father is the only true God”
Jammin, said: No! You (the Son) and the Father are the only true God.
Here is another question to Jammin: ” Who is the only true God, the Father or the Son?
You owe me a lot of answer, remember?
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