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Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2012,02:32) Limjunus,
Thank you for your response, apparently you do not believe a portion of the Nicene creed because you believe that it contradicts those verses that you put up for your 'belief foundation' but they do not contradict them with correct understanding.In the OT, God works through His power and wisdom, His 'arm' and His 'Word.' Therefore He speaks of Himself as one with His power and wisdom. In the NT, He reveals His 'Arm' and His 'Word' as the only begotten God, His only begotten Son, our Lord in whom we must know and believe in for eternal life.
1 John 5:9If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
From what you say, you do not believe in the only begotten Son as a literal Son, as one who is like the one who begat Him, i.e. very God of very God, Light of Light, as would be the case for a literal son. I do believe in a literal only begotten son as do those who agree with the Nicene Creed. We can't both be right.
Lightenup,[/B]11And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. (Ref: 1 John 5:11-12 NKJV)
I have no problem with it. I do believe with God and I am also believing with the Son of God, Jesus Christ.
The main issue of the testimony of God is, “we must be sure that we have the Son of God, so that we can have the eternal life.
In other passages of the Bible, we must be in the Son of God or we must be sure that we have been given to the Son of God.
Now, what is the strong evidences in accordance with the words of God that we're truly in Christ Jesus?
Here is one among so many evidence from the great teacher of God.
” I am the door of the sheep, whoever enter into the fold through me shall be saved”
The fold is the church of Christ, he has purchased it by his blood. He is the savior of the church, his body… he give his life for the church…” (Ref: John 10:9 / Eph. 5:23 / Acts 20:28 NKJV/Lamsa/RSV/TEV)
If you are in Christ, there is no any condemnation..” meaning saved and have eternal life.
God bless you.
Jesus WAS killed because the Pharisees believed that He blasphemed:
Mak 14:60Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 61But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.
Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?”
62“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
63The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64“You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?”
They all condemned him as worthy of death.
65Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him, struck him with their fists, and said, “Prophesy!” And the guards took him and beat him.Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 23 2012,18:06) You either believe 1 Corinthians 2:11's claim that no one but the Spirit knows the things of Jehovah or you do not. If you do then you believe no one can know the things of Jehovah unless the Spirit reveals them to him. John 1:18 claims that no one but the Son knows God; unless the Son reveals him to that individual.
Kerwin,John 1:18 DOESN'T say what you claim it says. And it is clear from Matthew 24:36 that Jesus DOESN'T know ALL the things that God knows.
Now, assuming that the Spirit of God DOES know all the things that God knows, and the Son of God DOESN'T, your conclusion has been refuted.
And, as a side note, who is to say that the things Jesus DOES know about his God were not made known to him BY the Spirit of God? Surely the fact that the Spirit of God is what has shown Jesus what he knows about God wouldn't mean that the Spirit of God is the Son of God, nor would it have any bearing on whether or not Jesus is called a god in John 1:18. Nor would it have any bearing on whether or not the pre-existent Jesus came down from heaven to do the will of his God – like he says he did.
Quote (carmel @ Sep. 23 2012,23:59) Quote The Spirit personified as the Son comes to dwell in Jesus, thus making him the Son of God.
Kerwin,How far are you going with your gnostic belief??
JESUS HIMSELF CONFIRMED THAT
HE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN
John6:38 For I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me
John 16:28 I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Amen! For once, I am in agreement with Charles.
limjunus,
From what you say, you do NOT believe in the literal Son of God which is the foundational truth of the church. The literal son would be the 'like begat like' type, the very God of/from very God, Light of Light.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 25 2012,11:38) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 23 2012,23:04) I showed Mike at least 17 passages in the NT that show that Jesus was worshiped. He was worshiped as the Son of God…clearly!
Kathi,I can show you MANY scriptures that tell us to worship ONLY Jehovah, our God……………….. in at least two of them, it is JESUS doing the speaking.
Can you show me the ONE scripture in the Bible that tells us to worship Jehovah, our God…………….. AND His Son?
If you cannot, then it seems it is YOU who is understanding the Greek word “proskuneo” wrong in the NT.
Jehovah is Lord of lords. Jesus is Lord of lords.Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 25 2012,01:29) Hi Jammin, Is not the bible consistent without?
Ed,Did you mean, “consistent THROUGHOUT”?
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 25 2012,10:41) Jesus WAS killed because the Pharisees believed that He blasphemed:
Kathi,Please DIRECTLY answer this question:
WHY would the Pharisees have had to bring in false witnesses at Jesus' makeshift trial, if certain Pharisees had already seen with their own eyes Jesus receiving God-worship from the formerly blind man?
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 25 2012,10:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 25 2012,11:38) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 23 2012,23:04) I showed Mike at least 17 passages in the NT that show that Jesus was worshiped. He was worshiped as the Son of God…clearly!
Kathi,I can show you MANY scriptures that tell us to worship ONLY Jehovah, our God……………….. in at least two of them, it is JESUS doing the speaking.
Can you show me the ONE scripture in the Bible that tells us to worship Jehovah, our God…………….. AND His Son?
If you cannot, then it seems it is YOU who is understanding the Greek word “proskuneo” wrong in the NT.
Jehovah is Lord of lords. Jesus is Lord of lords.
Is that a “NO“?Mike,
I showed you that Jehovah is not only God of gods but Lord of lords. We are to worship both. Jesus is the Lord of lords, our one LORD.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 25 2012,11:59) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 25 2012,10:41) Jesus WAS killed because the Pharisees believed that He blasphemed:
Kathi,Please DIRECTLY answer this question:
WHY would the Pharisees have had to bring in false witnesses at Jesus' makeshift trial, if certain Pharisees had already seen with their own eyes Jesus receiving God-worship from the formerly blind man?
They used their own people who wanted Jesus to die. They didn't want people to testify that were going to sing Jesus' praises.Kathi,
What I meant was: Why didn't these same Pharisees just come to Jesus' trial and say, “We saw the formerly blind man worship Jesus as if he were God, and Jesus ACCEPTED this worship from him” ?
That surely would have been reason enough to have Jesus put to death, and they wouldn't have needed to bring in false witnesses.
Also, that would have gone a LONG way toward diminishing the hold Jesus had on the people, for many would have disowned him if they thought he was accepting the worship due only to Jehovah.
(Please give your thoughts on the bolded question above.)
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 25 2012,11:16) I showed you that Jehovah is not only God of gods but Lord of lords. We are to worship both.
It's this last part that I'm having trouble with, Kathi.WHERE exactly, in scripture, are we told to worship BOTH – as if we have TWO Almighty Gods we need to worship?
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2012,10:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 25 2012,11:38) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 23 2012,23:04) I showed Mike at least 17 passages in the NT that show that Jesus was worshiped. He was worshiped as the Son of God…clearly!
Kathi,I can show you MANY scriptures that tell us to worship ONLY Jehovah, our God……………….. in at least two of them, it is JESUS doing the speaking.
Can you show me the ONE scripture in the Bible that tells us to worship Jehovah, our God…………….. AND His Son?
If you cannot, then it seems it is YOU who is understanding the Greek word “proskuneo” wrong in the NT.
Jehovah is Lord of lords. Jesus is Lord of lords.
Yes,but only God his God of godsChrist is King of kings
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 26 2012,04:47) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 25 2012,11:16) I showed you that Jehovah is not only God of gods but Lord of lords. We are to worship both.
It's this last part that I'm having trouble with, Kathi.WHERE exactly, in scripture, are we told to worship BOTH – as if we have TWO Almighty Gods we need to worship?
To ALL,Yes, we are to “worship” both Father Yahweh and His son Yahshua. Do not be deceived by mikebulls'64 and his twisting of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word!
Yahshua is most certainly worthy of “worship”, but certainly not as our our Heavenly Father and Creator Yahweh, but as His son the promised Messiah who has been appointed and anointed by his and our Father Yahweh to reign as King for 1,000 years. Please take into consideration the following link with a number of studies on the words that have been translated as “worship” in many translations of Scripture:
http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/worship.html
WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter OneELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 25 2012,12:45) Kathi, What I meant was: Why didn't these same Pharisees just come to Jesus' trial and say, “We saw the formerly blind man worship Jesus as if he were God, and Jesus ACCEPTED this worship from him” ?
That surely would have been reason enough to have Jesus put to death, and they wouldn't have needed to bring in false witnesses.
Also, that would have gone a LONG way toward diminishing the hold Jesus had on the people, for many would have disowned him if they thought he was accepting the worship due only to Jehovah.
(Please give your thoughts on the bolded question above.)
Mike,
By admitting that this man was formerly blind, they admit that the man they wanted condemned, healed the man formerly blind. That would have not helped their case.The fact that Jesus went around healing people, casting out demons, and doing many signs and wonders gave Jesus credibility. Why would the Pharisees want anyone that was healed by Jesus to testify in his hearing. If it were a fair trial, they would have called the disciples to the stand. They wanted a quick, go through the motions kind of trial. They already had their minds made up. The only thing they needed to hear was Jesus admit that He was the Son of God and that was enough to kill Him (if it weren't true but we know that it was true.)
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 25 2012,14:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 25 2012,12:45) Kathi, What I meant was: Why didn't these same Pharisees just come to Jesus' trial and say, “We saw the formerly blind man worship Jesus as if he were God, and Jesus ACCEPTED this worship from him” ?
Why would the Pharisees want anyone that was healed by Jesus to testify in his hearing.
Kathi,Once again you are missing the point – perhaps purposely. Here it is again:
Why didn't the PHARISEES, who supposedly saw Jesus accept WORSHIP from the man, bring this up at his trial – or even right there and right then?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Sep. 25 2012,12:54) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 26 2012,04:47) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 25 2012,11:16) I showed you that Jehovah is not only God of gods but Lord of lords. We are to worship both.
WHERE exactly, in scripture, are we told to worship BOTH – as if we have TWO Almighty Gods we need to worship?
To ALL,Yes, we are to “worship” both Father Yahweh and His son Yahshua. Do not be deceived by mikebulls'64 and his twisting of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word!
Frank,Do you believe we should worship Jesus as if he were God Almighty? Of course not. Does KATHI think we should? Absolutely! In fact, SHE believes that we have TWO Almighty Gods, and Jesus is “God Almighty, the Son”.
Yet here you are, making it clear that I am the one with whom you disagree – not her.
Frank, is it possible that you just like to disagree with me, despite what I've said? I only wonder because in a recent post, you said:
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Sep. 21 2012,18:52) “The evidence at hand is inconclusive at best. …” concerning Yahchanan [John] 1:18: To which I said:
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 24 2012,06:13) I agree. You also said:
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Sep. 21 2012,18:52) My stance would be IF “the only begotten God” were a more accurate translation than “the only begotten Son“, then the word “God” or “god” would simply be in reference to “power (authority), strength, or might” To which I said:
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 24 2012,06:13) I agree with this also. But despite the fact that I was agreeing with words YOU actually posted, you responded with:
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Sep. 24 2012,16:59) To ALL,
Just to make it quite clear, mikebull's64 and I do not agree as he would deceptively want you to believe!
It seems that you just like to disagree with me – no matter what it is that I've posted. That, coupled with the fact that you insist upon addressing members here with your own, twisted version of their names, leads me to conclude that you are a childish, hateful, little man.
I will pray for you.
ed,
read the context. do not jump to the other verses and conclude that they have the same meaning.
it is not a comic. the bible will not agree to your illusion and even commentaries.limjunus,
you have illogical reasoning boy LOL
paul said Christ is the only LORD. therefore, if i will follow your argument, the father is not LORD to you.
you said that you cant read in 1 cor 8.6 that Christ is Lord as being the head of the churchwhy dont you make your own version to support you imagination LOL
kathi,
mike does not want to accpt that truth. for mike, Christ was not worshiped even if the bible said that.
he will change the word worship and use his one and only NWT LOLtruly Christ was killed bec the jews do not want to accept that he is God.
Quote (jammin @ Sep. 25 2012,17:03) kathi, mike does not want to accpt that truth. for mike, Christ was not worshiped even if the bible said that.
he will change the word worship and use his one and only NWT
How do you say “one and only NWT” when I listed about SEVEN Bibles that DON'T say “worshiped” in John 9:38?And even our resident joker Frank has a point on this one, for the word worship can mean:
worship
6. to render religious reverence and homage to.7. to feel an adoring reverence or regard for (any person or thing).
So, if you like the translation of “worshiped” better than “did obeisance to”, it's fine with me…………… just as long as you understand that nobody in scripture ever “worshiped” Jesus as if they thought he was the very God he was the Son of. (That asinine, illogical theory didn't come along until many years after Jesus died.)
And the fact that the Pharisees eye witnessed one of these acts of “worship” in John 9, and said nothing about it, tells us that it wasn't an act of “God-worship”, right?
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