JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[limjunus]

Jammin post: “7 But stripped Himself [of all privileges and [d]rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.

Question and clarifications: Do you mean Jesus Christ, from Super being step down to human being; The Almighty God, had transformed from celestial super being to a mere human being? You should emphasize your own understanding with the passages or else you are making many ways for contradicting conclusions.

Example: Transforming from Super being to a mere human being means, the former is no longer a God, but a mere human. We have no more true God in the nature of a spirit but only a mere human nature.

The alone God, is now a mere human and living with us here on earth. No true God left in heaven and we have no more God!

[limjunus]

(GW)
6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God,
he did not take advantage of this equality.

We must be aware that the passages did not clearly said that Jesus Christ is God, instead the scriptures said “..and for us there is God but one, the Father.

The verse 2:6 of Phil., is telling us that Jesus Christ has the quality and that quality is entitling him to be equal with God. So what quality it is?

[limjunus]

The verse 2:6 of Phil., is telling us that Jesus Christ has the quality and that quality is entitling him to be equal with God. So what quality it is? Why Jesus Christ need to be stripped that quality so that he could be suited to a Savior and to be another true God?

[limjunus]

Edited: “The verse 2:6 of Phil., is telling us that Jesus Christ has the quality and that quality is entitling him to be equal with God. So what quality it is? Why Jesus Christ need to be stripped that quality so that he could be suited to be a Savior and not to be another true God?

[limjunus]

Bottom line:
Jesus Christ and his apostles already introduced to us who is the one and only true God. Ref: John 17:1-3 John 20:17 / 1 Cor. 8:4-6. Mal. 2:10

What we are trying to talk to,.. if Jesus Christ is truly God?

We must understand first what qualities (attributes) the true God has? then we can come into a safe conclusion if Jesus Christ is truly God.

God qualities:

Spirit, Immortal, Invisible,A holy Father, Creator of all things, Only One, No beginning, No ending, Could not be changed and so on.

[Spock]

Quote (limjunus @ July 26 2012,17:16)

Bottom line: Jesus Christ and his apostles already introduced to us who is the one and only true God. Ref: John 17:1-3 John 20:17 / 1 Cor. 8:4-6. Mal. 2:10 What we are trying to talk to,.. if Jesus Christ is truly God? We must understand first what qualities (attributes) the true God has? then we can come into a safe conclusion if Jesus Christ is truly God. God qualities: Spirit, Immortal, Invisible,A holy Father, Creator of all things, Only One, No beginning, No ending, Could not be changed and so on.

This explains how and why the Father is manifested in his divine creator Son(s) such as our creator-brother Jesus Christ. “If you have seen me you have seen the Father.”

“THE Paradise Trinity of eternal Deities facilitates the Father’s escape from personality absolutism. The Trinity perfectly associates the limitless expression of God’s infinite personal will with the absoluteness of Deity. The Eternal Son and the various Sons of divine origin, together with the Conjoint Actor and his universe children, effectively provide for the Father’s liberation from the limitations otherwise inherent in primacy, perfection, changelessness, eternity, universality, absoluteness, and infinity[/B/.

(108.2) 10:0.2 The Paradise Trinity effectively provides for the full expression and perfect revelation of the eternal nature of Deity. The Stationary Sons of the Trinity likewise afford a full and perfect revelation of divine justice. The Trinity is Deity unity, and this unity rests eternally upon the absolute foundations of the divine oneness of the three original and co-ordinate and coexistent personalities, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit.

Self-Distribution of the First Source and Center

(108.4) 10:1.1 It would seem that the Father, back in eternity, inaugurated a policy of profound self-distribution. There is inherent in the selfless, loving, and lovable nature of the Universal Father something which causes him to reserve to himself the exercise of only those powers and that authority which he apparently finds it impossible to delegate or to bestow.

(108.5) 10:1.2 The Universal Father all along has divested himself of every part of himself that was bestowable on any other Creator or creature. He has delegated to his divine Sons and their associated intelligences every power and all authority that could be delegated. He has actually transferred to his Sovereign Sons, in their respective universes, every prerogative of administrative authority that was transferable. In the affairs of a local universe, he has made each Sovereign Creator Son just as perfect, competent, and authoritative as is the Eternal Son in the original and central universe. He has given away, actually bestowed, with the dignity and sanctity of personality possession, all of himself and all of his attributes, everything he possibly could divest himself of, in every way, in every age, in every place, and to every person, and in every universe except that of his central indwelling.

(109.1) 10:1.3 Divine personality is not self-centered; self-distribution and sharing of personality characterize divine freewill selfhood. Creatures crave association with other personal creatures; Creators are moved to share divinity with their universe children; the personality of the Infinite is disclosed as the Universal Father, who shares reality of being and equality of self with two co-ordinate personalities, the Eternal Son and the Conjoint Actor.

(109.2) 10:1.4 For knowledge concerning the Father’s personality and divine attributes we will always be dependent on the revelations of the Eternal Son, for when the conjoint act of creation was effected, when the Third Person of Deity sprang into personality existence and executed the combined concepts of his divine parents, the Father ceased to exist as the unqualified personality. With the coming into being of the Conjoint Actor and the materialization of the central core of creation, certain eternal changes took place. God gave himself as an absolute personality to his Eternal Son. Thus does the Father bestow the “personality of infinity” upon his only-begotten Son, while they both bestow the “conjoint personality” of their eternal union upon the Infinite Spirit.

(109.3) 10:1.5 For these and other reasons beyond the concept of the finite mind, it is exceedingly difficult for the human creature to comprehend God’s infinite father-personality except as it is universally revealed in the Eternal Son and, with the Son, is universally active in the Infinite Spirit.

(109.4) 10:1.6 Since the Paradise Sons of God visit the evolutionary worlds and sometimes even there dwell in the likeness of mortal flesh, and since these bestowals make it possible for mortal man actually to know something of the nature and character of divine personality, therefore must the creatures of the planetary spheres look to the bestowals of these Paradise Sons for reliable and trustworthy information regarding the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. UB

Colter

[mikeboll64]

jammin,

Listen for a minute………….

The word “man” can be referring to a particular human being, OR to the species known as “mankind”. I am man because I am of the species known as “mankind”.

Are you saying Jesus is God because is of the species known as “Godkind”? Because if “God” isn't referring to a species in Phil 2, then it has no choice but to be referring to a PERSON known as “God”.

Which one do you think is right? Is it referring to a species, or an individual being?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 24 2012,18:50)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2012,11:07) Your turn: 1.  Where in scripture does it specifically say Jehovah pre-existed human beings? Please show the scriptures that EXPLICITELY state the things I asked about – if there are any. Mike, Since it was Father Yahweh Who caused we human beings to come into existence it only stands to simple reasoning that He existed before us.

Frank,

Your bolded words above make the very point I was going to make, but I thought I'd give you a chance to first produce any scriptures that specifically said the things in the three questions I asked you.

It is clear that you CANNOT produce these scriptures, because they simply don't exist.

My point is that it is useless for you to ask us where in scripture we are asked to believe that Jesus pre-existed, since we are never asked to believe that God pre-existed either.

Does the fact that we are not SPECIFICALLY ASKED to believe these things mean these things are not clearly taught in scripture?  Judging from your bolded words above, the answer is “NO”.

You are correct that we are clearly taught from scripture that God pre-existed humans, because it stands to reason He would exist BEFORE the beings He created.  So even though we are not SPECIFICALLY ASKED to believe such a thing, we believe it because of the OTHER scriptures that explain how God created man, etc.

So, are we SPECIFICALLY ASKED to believe that Jesus pre-existed his time on earth?  No.  But it stands to reason that if he was existing in the form of God, emptied himself, and was made in the likeness of a human being, then he existed BEFORE being made in the likeness of a human being.

It stands to reason that if Jesus had glory alongside his God before the world began, then he existed before the world began.

It stands to reason that if all things in heaven and earth were created through Jesus, then he existed before those things were created through him.

It stands to reason that if Jesus said he existed before Abraham, then he existed before he was born of Mary.

Etc, etc, etc.

Are you getting the point? It is the same exact point you yourself made to me in the bolded words above.  The point is that your questions, even though answered DIRECTLY and HONESTLY by me, do NOTHING in the way of proving Jesus didn't pre-exist.  (Just like my questions did nothing in the way of proving God didn't exist before humans.)

Perhaps you could come up with some questions that actually DO prove something one way or the other, huh?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (limjunus @ July 25 2012,00:07)

Phil. 2:6-8 KJV 6.Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Mike and Frank: How do you understand it and where is your explanation about it?

Hi limjunis,

I don't know much about your beliefs yet, but from your posts in this thread, I sense that we are not far apart.

I too believe in only one “true God”, the Father.  I have never believed that the Son of God is the very God he is the Son of – like many people believe.

As for the Phil 2 passage you quoted, I believe it speaks of Jesus existing in the form of God (meaning he was existing as a spirit being like his God) before being made into the likeness of a human being.

Where you and I differ (in fact, where I differ with MOST people) is in the belief of many gods of whom Jehovah is THE God.  But instead of taking this thread off topic, I will start a topic about “many gods”.  I will look forward to your comments and questions in that thread.

peace,
mike

[Wakeup]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 02 2012,08:36)

To All, (Link to thread) All these verses together PROVE that “The Word” is REALLY the HolySpirit”! Zech.4:6 Zech.12:1 Matt.13:19 Mark 4:14 Mark13:11 Mark 13:19 Luke 3:2 Luke 8:11 John 12:49 John 14:24 John 17:6-8 John 17:14 Acts 4:31 Acts 10:36-38 Acts 10:44 Acts 11:15-16 Acts 13:4-5 Acts 13:47-49 Acts 17:11 Acts 20:32 Romans 9:5-6 Romans 10:17 1Cor. 12:8-9 1Cor. 14:36 2Cor. 5:19 2Cor. 6:6-7 Gal.6:6 Eph. 1:12-13 Eph. 5:26 Eph. 6:17 Phillip.2:16 1Tm.5:17-18 2Tm.2:11-15 2Tm.4:2 Hebrews 1:1-2 Hebrews 2:2-3 Hebrews 4:2-6 Hebrews 4:8-12 Hebrews 5:13-14 Hebrews 7:28 Hebrews 11:3 Hebrews 12:19 James 1:18 1Peter 1:21-23 1Peter 2:6-8 1John 2:7-10 Rev.1:2 Rev.1:9 Rev.19:11-16 Rev.20:4 God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EDJ.

For how long have you been studying the scriptures? and the others? strange flesh?

All those scriptures you quoted?? is mind boggling to me,saying it is about the Holy spirit? Well; its not.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

And why did you purposedly leave out the most important scriptures? Like John ch.14.15.16?
Is this intensional? to deceive the brothers?

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ July 25 2012,14:28)

Quote “Equality” would required that we have to go through God to get to Jesus as well as going through Jesus to get to God.  But that is not the case, is it? Mike, If for example there is a HOUSE which is locked, and in this house there is a TREASURE, and in the same time no one has the KEY because it is lost, that treasure is USELESS. Now answer:                                               IS THE KEY  more powerful then the treasure.??                                               Or:                                               IS THE KEY  equally powerful to the treasure.??                                               Or:                                               IS THE KEY  less powerful then the treasure?? Peace and love in Jesus Charles

Hi Charles,

The treasure is the ultimate goal, the key is the means to an end.

Let's use your analogy for God and Aaron.  Aaron was the key in the wilderness after Egypt, and God was the treasure.  Who was more powerful?  The God who could forgive the sins?  Or the priest through whom the sacrifices for forgivement were made?

Charles, try to remember that Jesus is the High Priest of God, like Aaron was. Surely God Almighty is not His own priest.

[jammin]

Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2012,15:09)

Janmin Quote t, read phil 2.6 over and over again. pls wear eyeglasses it seems that you do not read the bible ;only phil 2.6 over and over again,and can not see any thing be on that single scripture, so you are stuck ,why do you ask others to get stuck like you,??? you are the only one that stand still in Gods word . were his that other scripture

dont you see phil 2.6??

it says that Christ was in the form of GOD, meaning he is GOD.
he became flesh.

not god boy but GOD.

limjunus,

we still have GOD in heaven and that is the father.
the son became human who is also GOD by nature.

john 1.1 says that
When the world began, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and the nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God. – John 1:1 (BNT)

what is that nature??
let me post again john 1.1
John 1:1

New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
John 1
The Word Became Human
1 In the beginning, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

that is the nature GOD!

did paul know this truth??

let me post phil 2.6
Philippians 2:6

New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

6 In his very nature he was God.

Philippians 2:6

New International Version (NIV)

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,

i believe what the bible says

mike,

you believe that you onyl have one form or nature and that is your human nature.
but for christ, you did not believe that he has the same nature like his father. he is GOD and not god boy.

GOD by nature is not created.

you should go to school mike and study the nature of GOD

[terraricca]

Quote (jammin @ July 27 2012,21:01)

Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2012,15:09) Janmin Quote t, read phil 2.6 over and over again. pls wear eyeglasses it seems that you do not read the bible ;only phil 2.6 over and over again,and can not see any thing be on that single scripture, so you are stuck ,why do you ask others to get stuck like you,??? you are the only one that stand still in Gods word . were his that other scripture dont you see phil 2.6?? it says that Christ was in the form of GOD, meaning he is GOD. he became flesh. not god boy but GOD. limjunus, we still have GOD in heaven and that is the father. the son became human who is also GOD by nature. john 1.1 says that When the world began, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and the nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God. – John 1:1 (BNT) what is that nature?? let me post again john 1.1 John 1:1 New International Reader's Version (NIRV) John 1 The Word Became Human 1 In the beginning, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. that is the nature GOD! did paul know this truth?? let me post phil 2.6 Philippians 2:6 New International Reader's Version (NIRV) 6 In his very nature he was God. Philippians 2:6 New International Version (NIV) 6 Who, being in very nature[a] God, i believe what the bible says mike, you believe that you onyl have one form or nature and that is your human nature. but for christ, you did not believe that he has the same nature like his father. he is GOD and not god boy. GOD by nature is not created. you should go to school mike and study the nature of GOD

try to explain all creation and how it happen and by whom,

and why the promise to Abraham ,and why saving the nation out of Egypt by Moses ,or was it Moses ?? and why it took so long before the messiah at to come ???and how can a man Jesus save us from our sins and if you believe that Christ is God why is now that God can die and why would God save man when at the flood he was ready to kill them all ???what is it that would solve all dilemmas within Gods creation

and try not to make the scriptures twist and dance on their own or with clever wording who do not make sense .

I look forward to your answers

[jammin]

GOD became Flesh or was manifest in the flesh
1 Timothy 3:16

King James Version (KJV)

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world,

the body died.

i am not twisting the bible. that is a word for word in the bible.
you just cant accept that truth boy.

if your father is a MAN by nature, you are also a MAN and not an animal boy

[jammin]

i know you believe that Christ is the WORD in john 1.1
in john 1.14 it says that the WORD became flesh. the WORD was GOD, john said that.

if you know logic, you are MAN by nature just like your father.

Christ is GOD by nature just like his father.

GOD has a son and the bible says that. that is Christ, his one and ONLY son

do you believe Christ is the only son of GOD according to john 1.14?
John 1:14

New International Version (NIV)

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

yes or no? i need your answer

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2012,08:58)

Hi Jammin, How does one go about taking advantage of equality?   God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Jammin?

[Ed J]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,10:47)

EDJ. For how long have you been studying the scriptures? wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,

Over 40 years.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,10:57)

And why did you purposedly leave out the most important scriptures? Like John ch.14.15.16? Is this intensional? to deceive the brothers? wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,

What are you driving at?       …please elaborate

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[jammin]

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2012,15:43)

Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2012,08:58) Hi Jammin, How does one go about taking advantage of equality?   God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Jammin?

do you understand the meaning of equal in phil 2.6??

pls elaborate your question

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